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There will be 2 National Champions this year......

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AWD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-03 12:43 PM
Original message
There will be 2 National Champions this year......
...because of a rule that most people don't know about.

The BCS title game determines the winner of the National Championship, but the Associated Press also crowns a champion....always has.

In the 5 previous years of the BCS, the winner of the BCS Title game also just hppened to be crowned #1 by the AP.

But this year..........

USC will be ranked #1 by the AP after today's polls come out, but will most likely be wrongly shut out of the Sugar Bowl. LSU will jump them based on schedule strength and will play Oklahoma (who doesn't even deserve to play in the title game). The winner of the LSU/Oklahoma game will win the BCS Championship and USC (if they knock off Michigan in the Rose Bowl) will maintain #1 in the AP.

Two National Champions this year....maybe that will pave the way to break a lousy tradition and allow a playoff system.

-----------

By the way, whichever of the 3 teams gets shut out of the Sugar Bowl ONLY has themselves to blame. You don't lose that one game, you don't get shut out. Blame yourselves. When Ohio State won it all, they did it undefeated. Had they lost one, they would have only been able to blame themselves.

Sorry, but pollsters don't get the chance to ignore you or shaft you if you don't lose a game.
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realFedUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-03 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
1. but who do you put in the Rose Bowl
with Michigan? This should be the best game
of New Year's Day if it's done right.
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AWD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-03 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. USC will go there....
....depsite deserving the Sugar.

My bowls would be as such....

Sugar - USC/LSU
Rose - Oklahoma/Michigan
Orange - Miami/Ohio State
Fiesta - Kansas State/Florida State (and will not sell out the stadium)

But what will likely happen is Oklahoma and USC will flip-flop and the rest will hold true.
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GOPisEvil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-03 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. It'll be USC.
Since they are getting the shaft from the BCS, they'll revert to their conference tie-in and play Michigan in the Rose Bowl.

My guesses for the big 4 bowls:

Sugar: LSU/Oklahoma
Rose: USC/Michigan
Orange: Miami/Ohio State
Fiesta: Florida St./Kansas St.
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realFedUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-03 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Rather have USC in Rose Bowl
than Oklahoma..ugh.
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WindRavenX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-03 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
4. I really, really hate the BCS
It just seems to me that the goddamn computers always manage to screw things up...most of them don't take into account homefield advantage, which is wrong.
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AWD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-03 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. I want to defend the BCS....
Edited on Sun Dec-07-03 12:56 PM by AWD
....but I just can't do it.

If Oklahoma gets in, it'll mean the 3 of the last 4 years, a team gets shafted while a worse team back-doors their way in.

2004 - Oklahoma humiliated in Conference Final, gets in
2002 - Nebraska humiliated in Conference Final, gets in
2001 - Florida State loses to Miami, gets in over 1-loss Hurricanes

In the past 4 years.....only in 2003, when two unbeatens played, did they get it right

It's broke. Fix it. Screw tradition, we deserve a true National Champion more that we deserve a stinkin' tradition.
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JackDragna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-03 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
7. Your argument is part of the ridiculousness of the whole situation
So what if Ohio State went undefeated? Calling them the "National Champion" is still just as silly as calling any other team the "National Champion." I'd wager that at the end of the previous season, the USC Trojans would have beat either Miami or Ohio State. Saying any team can possibly "win it all" when a team plays a mere fraction of all available division I football teams is foolish.

This situation is why we need to go back to the days of conference tie-ins to bowl games. The computers aren't any more objective than pure polling because the criterion used in the BCS are themselves subjective decisions by people about how teams should be ranked.
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trumad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-03 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Oh please
USC lost two in 2002 and one of those games was to a horrible KState team.... Let me repeat...OSU and Miami were undefeated while USC lost two games... How the hell do you figure USC would have played for an NC that year with two losses?
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SEAburb Donating Member (985 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-03 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. maybe because USC had the best team
in college football in 1-03.
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AWD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-03 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. Let us know....
....when they crown a National Champion 1 month at a time.

In the meantime, try to remember that we currently have a system thatquite plainly says a 14-0 team is more deserving of a title than a 12-2 team.

period.
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AWD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-03 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Oh, for Christ's sake!
Edited on Sun Dec-07-03 01:43 PM by AWD
YOU LOST TWICE IN 2002!!!!!

Quit your whining and get over it.

Ohio State beat EVERY TEAM THEY FACED, including THREE teams that ended up in the Top 10 of the BCS. They had hard-fought games, but in the end of EVERY ONE of them, they were the winner.

"Subjective decisions" on how teams should be polled doesn't really stay subjective when one of those teams LOSES. Let alone losing two games.

YOU LOST TWICE! Get over it. You blew it, you blew it, you blew it.

Geez......
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sleipnir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-03 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
8. Why doesn't OU deserve to play?
They had an amazing season with only one loss at the end to a highly ranked and very well respected opponent.

Let me see, oh, yes, LSU and USC also lost...Well, then by the same logic they don't deserve to play for the title either. Screw that, at least OU lost in a championship game not to some underrated team during the regular season, which is the case with LSU and USC.

OU / USC should be the title game rightfully.
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AWD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-03 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. OU did not win their conference
Edited on Sun Dec-07-03 01:43 PM by AWD
Simple as that.

They will not be recognized as the winner of their own conference, therefore they should lose their opportunity to play in the NC.

And USC's 3-point loss in triple overtime is FAR from being equal to a 28-point loss. And K-State is NOT respected. Ask Marshall.

They choked on it big time, got their doors blown off by K State, and will end up backing into the title game.
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sleipnir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-03 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. IMO, Conference Title games ruin the sport, BUT...
Edited on Sun Dec-07-03 01:54 PM by sleipnir
I can see your point, however, I must point out several things.

LSU, while the score was low, got manhandled by Florida, barely beat Miss. and UGA... Those three things alone are enough in my book to put USC and OU over LSU

Another point, OU CRUSHED all of their opponents (until the final game). People were talking that they were the Greatest Team Ever. Now, everyone is saying, no no, they shouldn't play for the title. Bullshit. Only 'Bama came close to winning, no one else.

Anyway, KSU (Hate 'em, go Hawks) is quickly moving up as a very hot team as of late. Perhaps you'll remember the Marshall loss was without Ell Roberson...he was injured on the sidelines. When Ell and the rest of the team got their shit together, after the OSU loss, they were practically unstoppable. They're going to be the team to beat next year, not that I like that prospect at all...Is K-State #1? No, but they certainly deserve to be in the Top 10. So, to say they aren't respected? I just can't see that, they're playing in a BCS bowl, will probably end up at 8 or 9 in AP...

Anyway, I still hold by my contention that USC / OU should be the title game, but it won't...

My realistic guess is either a LSU / OU or LSU / USC game...either is really a possibility. If the AP drops OU to 3, then it's possible for LSU / USC, but unlikely.

Well, I guess all will be revealed soon...at hopefully the end of Title games and the Bowl system
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SmileyBoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-03 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
12. It's times like these I'm glad I mostly follow I-AA football.
I-AA has a playoff system, while not perfect, has been significantly improved over the past 15 years or so. And the better thing is that it's a I-AA tradition already.
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realFedUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-03 02:21 PM
Response to Original message
15. Reports saying Oklahoma and LSU will play eachother
good. USC at the Rose Bowl.
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argyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-03 02:49 PM
Response to Original message
16. Big XII and SEC should do away with their Championship Bowl.
The Big XII,in particular,has caused a mess in regard to end of season standings.
OU gets beaten by KSU for Conference championship,but OU's Big XII record is 8-1 and KSU's is 7-2.Who's really conference champ? That's as sticky as who should be playing in the BCS Championship,LSU or USC.
At 12-1 OU deserves a shot at the title as much as anyone.
What's needed is an eight team playoff system.
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AWD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-03 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. Not sticky at all...
OU gets beaten by KSU for Conference championship,but OU's Big XII record is 8-1 and KSU's is 7-2.Who's really conference champ? That's as sticky as who should be playing in the BCS Championship,LSU or USC.

It's not sticky at all. The recognized conference champion is the one who wins the conference championship game. Oklahoma lost that game.

there's no gray area here.....they are not conference champions no matter what their record was before the title game.
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argyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-03 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. My main point was that this Big XII Championship game should not
have been played.It and the SEC Championship games were whipped up purely for extra revenue and have been nothing but trouble.SEC's been lucky,but this is the second time the Big XII results have caused an uproar.

I know you're an OSU fan. If the Big X had a championship game and OSU were in OU's shoes,would you feel the same way?

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AmericanErrorist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-03 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
17. Who cares about the AP?
They're not a sanctioned by the NCAA. They have about the same right to declare D-I football champions as a Quizno's Deli. This is another example of media perceptions vs. reality. If the media says there could be two national champions, there could be two national champions, irregardless of reality.
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okieinpain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-03 06:18 PM
Response to Original message
21. no things will work out just fine, USC will lose to Mich, and OU
will spank LSU.
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