The BCS. What a clusterf*ck.

[SmileyBoy]

OK, the human polls say USC is number 1. But Mr. Computer doesn't think that way. He/it thinks number one Oklahoma should be in the championship game versus number two LSU. And he/it wants USC to play in the Rose Bowl. And he/it wants Oklahoma to play after they lost in the Big XII championship to Kansas State. So, there might be two "national champions". Oh man, I am REALLY grateful that I'm mostly a I-AA football fan.

This is too fucking stupid. There needs to be an 8-team playoff system NOW.

[joeybee12]

1. Absolutely!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't like USC and I believe they got screwed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Darwin2002]

2. they were screwed; okl blew it last night plain and simple

N/t

[pasadenaboy]

3. actually,

there should be a playoff, but without one, there were three teams with one loss. Of those, the computer picked the teams with the tougher schedule, and the teams that lost to ranked opponents (Florida and K state are both top 20 teams). SC lost to CAL, who is only a .500 team and unranked. Also, LSU and OU played and won one more game than SC

Although I think there should be a playoff with the top 4 or 8 teams, barring that, I think they chose the correct two teams for the National Championship.

One more thing.

GO BRUINS!

[okieinpain]

4. thanks. glad you agree

.

[joeybee12]

7. Disagree, the computer doesn't pick--people still pick by deciding

how the computer weighs things. Subjective info and data goes in--there's no way to get around that.

Play-off system NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[thehonesttruth]

5. playoff now

yes, might be the second time the pac-10 gets screwed out of a chance to play for the title. so, what is dean position on this??? kerry???? clark???? etc. etc.

[Faygo Kid]

6. End of the BCS as we know it

This can't be allowed to happen again. What a stink!

[jeter]

8. After this year...I think a playoff is certain

How can Oklahoma be in one of the top two spots when the failed to win their own conference championship?

Say what you will about USC. But they are the PAC 10 champions. Say what you will about LSU but they are the SEC champions.

Oklahoma? What are they champions of? Big 12 South. A division champion. Not a conference champion.

I think they should make it a playoff now. Or else this years champs will always have the * next to their team for 2002.

I say a four team playoff:

Oklahoma vs. Michigan

LSU vs. USC

Winner plays the winner in a championship game.

[FATNED]

9. I agree the BCS is a pile of crap but...

This "didn't win their conference so they can't be national champs" argument has never worked for me. How many NCAA basketball champs have won the national championship without winning their conference? Several. In fact, of the 64/65 teams in the tournament each year, most didn't win their conference but any could win the national championship. In every other college sport I can think of, it's possible to win a national championship without winning your conference. Why should football be different?

LSU, OU and USC all deserve a shot but this crud system has mucked it up. I think OU and LSU had the best seasons with the most impressive wins and the least embarrassing losses (seriously...USC, beat pac-10 doormats Cal and all of this is moot).

A playoff would be absolutely astounding, easily one of the biggest sporting events of the year.

[Awsi Dooger]

10. Nothing would be moot, and OU's loss was easily the most pathetic

If USC had defeated Cal, the Sugar Bowl would be 'SC vs. Oklahoma. That would still raise a justified stink, because an SEC champ coming off a 21 point win over Georgia would be denied in favor of a Sooner team that flopped by 28 vs. juggernaut Kansas St, which lost at home to Marshall.

As far as embarrassing losses, USC is the only one of the three which lost on an opponents' home field, always a tough assignment, especially in a conference game. LSU fell at home and Oklahoma on a neutral site. And consider this: USC lost by 3 (triple OT) as a 13 point favorite, or 16 points below expectation. LSU was a 10 point favorite over Florida and lost by 12, or 22 below what was predicted. The belly flop award convincingly goes to the BCS darling Sooners, who closed a 15 point favorite on Saturday, a mere 43 points off the result.

[VermontDem2004]

11. That kind of stuff doesn't weigh in

Here are the facts, USC lost to unranked Cal team who has only 7 wins I think this year, LSU lost to a ranked Florida who is an 8-4 team who had to play 6 ranked teams over the course of the year, Oklahoma lost to #10th ranked Kansas State team. Despite the blowout K State handed to OU, USC's loss was to an unranked Cal team. Plus the game was at Arrowhead, it may be concidered a nuetral site but clearly over 70% of the fans were K State fans not like it matters.

[Awsi Dooger]

12. Losing by 4 touchdowns SHOULD matter

Unless OU was somehow granted a "lose one for free" card by the BCS geniuses.

And this is also a fact: Florida was reeling when it defeated LSU in Baton Rouge. The Gators were coming off a home defeat to Mississippi in which they were shut out in the second half, and only a miracle blunder INT with 4 minutes left had saved Florida a week earlier in Kentucky. Florida was 3-3 when it beat LSU, with victories over this titanic trio -- Florida A&M, San Jose St and Kentucky.

In contrast, USC won at Auburn as a 4 point underdog. The BCS is preposterous in not considering margin of victory or defeat, and evaluating every game at season's end and not when it was played.

[VermontDem2004]

13. I don't really care who was a favorite or a underdog by how many points in

a game. USC played nowhere near the difficulty of schedule Florida played. They were 3-3 at the time but they finished 5-1 since then, and Kansas State was ranked, Florida is ranked, Cal is 7-6 and unranked which is a team USC lost to. Here is how it breaks down without using favorites, underdogs, or mov.

USC
Oklahoma
LSU has 1 loss.

USC lost to an unranked 7-6 Cal.
LSU lost to #17 8-4 Florida(Who has played a very tough schedule)
Oklahoma lost to #10 11-3 Kansas State team.

Also LSU and Oklahoma has played a tougher schedule then Cal, I have only one problem with the BCS and that is computer polls.

Gators were coming off a home defeat to Mississippi in which they were shut out in the second half, and only a miracle blunder INT with 4 minutes left had saved Florida a week earlier in Kentucky. Florida was 3-3 when it beat LSU, with victories over this titanic trio -- Florida A&M, San Jose St and Kentucky.
Your point? Turnovers are part of this game and Florida also has wins @ #6 LSU, #11 Arkansas, and #4 Georgia. Now lets look at Cal, blown out by K State, lost to (@Cal)Colorado State, Utah, (@Cal)Oregon State, UCLA, and Oregon. Now whose losses are worse? Florida's loses to 5 point loss @#5 Miami, 14 points to #7 Tennessee, 3 point loss vs #18 Mississippi, and a 4 point loss to #8 Florida State(All to ranked teams). Or Cal's loses to the teams I listed above?

[Awsi Dooger]

14. Then you don't understand basic probability

It is extremely common for an unranked team to be favored over a ranked one. Being ranked is irrelevant. Notre Dame was ranked at one point.

The pointspread is a good, but not perfect, measure of the relative strength of a team in relation to another. And anyone who dismisses USC's 3-point loss to Cal as much more condemning than either LSU's (home) 12 point loss to Florida or Oklahoma's (neutral) 28 point embarrassment to Kansas St is conveniently overlooking the likelihood of victory of the 3 games. All were in the same general neighborhood, even if public perception is ignorantly otherwise.

Besides, losing at home, or in November or beyond, are much more historically important in excluding a school from national championship consideration than blowing a conference road game.

[VermontDem2004]

16. Being ranked now does have relevance

I don't care about pre-season polls in which Auburn was ranked #4, I am talking about rankings as in today. My point was that USC lost to a worse team then the team USC and LSU lost too. But that Big XII championship was at Arrowhead and over 70% of the fans were K State fans so I would call it a home game for K State. I understand basic probability but I could give a rats ass about how many points Auburn or Oklahoma was favored by the fact is USC lost to unranked Cal and Florida and Kansas State are in the top 15. That has much more relevance to me.

[PVnRT]

25. Margin of victory

It is considered - but only up to 21 points, unless you want to go back to the good ol' days where running up the score was a good way to maybe push yourself up a spot.

And, sorry, but Auburn was completely overrated. You talk about evaluating each game when it is played - does that mean that the team that is inevitably hyped beyond belief and logic should be given undue weight? Do you mean to tell me that preseason polls are anything even close to accurate? Bullshit. They are pure hype and speculation.

You keep harping about USC beating Auburn. What about losing to Cal? And who have they beaten? Notre Dame? Join the club. UCLA? Yawn. Arizona? Talk about a joke of a team. BYU? Another joke.

Don't be so quick to point out the weakness of another team's schedule before looking at your own.

[playahata1]

26. Apples and oranges.

The NCAA basketball tournament is a totally different set-up. While there are teams who have great seasons yet fail to make the field of 64/65, the championship is determined strictly ON THE FIELD. You PLAY YOUR WAY, EARN YOUR WAY, to the title, even if you are 12-17 coming in (and the only you can make the field with such a record is if you win your postseason conference tournament, BTW).

As for the I-A schools objecting to a playoff because "it will cut into final exams," etc., I say bullshit. FSU, USC, Miami, Oklahoma, Michigan all run on the same academic calendar as the Georgia Southerns, the Montanas, the Rowans, the Mount Unions, the Northern Alabamas, the St. Johnses (Minn.), the Augustanas, the Colgates, the FAMU's, the Gramblings. If those schools can all play a uniform 10- to 11-game schedule, have their 16-team playoff and crown their champions by mid-December (I think the D-III title game is this Saturday.), so can the I-A schools.

The I-A schools simply don't want to give up the money that comes from the bowl system; they don't really give a damn about a "national championship."

[PVnRT]

27. What about the schools

that don't make the playoff? The bowls are the only chance they have of any kind of national recognition and press. For schools like Boise State, TCU, or Miami (OH) this is the only way they will ever have anything resembling post-season play. Do you just tell them to go fuck off, or what?

[playahata1]

44. The field should be open to ALL I-A conferences,

not just the Big Six. Someone from the MAC, the WAC, Conference USA, the Mountain West or the Sunbelt, and Notre Dame -- THE independent -- will make the top 16, which is what the playoff field will consist of, if I were in charge.

[northzax]

48. er, well a couple of reasons

first, DivIII teams play a maximum of 10 games in the regular season. Div III teams can play 13. Div III teams play every saturday. Div I teams have thursday night games, bye weeks and the like. but whatever.

since we care so fucking much, I have a fair and reasonable suggestion. Put every team in Div I into a bracket, randomly, by region. winner moves on, loser enters the losers bracket. At the end of the season, voila! you have the winners. Every week, your schedule would get harder. there are no two loss teams hanging around (to keep things interesting, the winner of the bracket could play the winner of the loser's bracket in a new national title game) bam. the industry we all want. no more rivalries, no more homecoming, no more of what college sports used to be about, more money, please.

[Catholic Sensation]

15. Is it just me

or has every BCS national title game besides last year's had at least one team that probably shouldn't have made it?

[VermontDem2004]

17. Who is it this year?

I think any of the three teams deserve to be there.

[Catholic Sensation]

18. Personally, after Oklahoma played so poorly against

KSU, it should be LSU vs. USC. It would make sense that the #1 and #2 teams in both polls would decide who is #1, but then again, one would think the man who got more votes in an election taking place in a "democracy" would win...

[VermontDem2004]

19. i think LSU should be in there no doubt

But USC and Oklahoma is very tricky, USC lost to Cal but was not blown out while Oklahoma lost to a very good team but was blown out. Oklahoma by far has faced a tougher schedule then USC but what happens happens. I am actually very excited for a Michigan vs USC Rose Bowl matchup and I think that matchup might get the highest ratings out of any bowl game. But I say we have a best of 4 playoff, if you can crack the top 4 by the end of the regular season you don't deserve a second chance at the national championship.

[Awsi Dooger]

21. I agree, a late and lopsided loss should exclude

There is (rightfully) no precedent for a team backing into the championship game off a disgraceful effort like Oklahoma's on Saturday. College football history would be completely different if that type of result were condoned.

Ohio St's great '69 team lost its finale, 24-12, at Ann Arbor after being compared to the best teams of all time. For some reason, the poll voters dropped the Buckeyes. A BCS of that era would have undoubtedly crowned the Buckeyes, despite the loss and no bowl game.

Also, LSU's non-conference slate was this: Louisiana-Monroe, Arizona, division 1-AA Western Illinois, and Louisiana Tech. The SEC is formidable and I applaud the two wins over a very talented Georgia team, but no way that early schedule can be overlooked.

Miami is out of the championship running this year because the non-conference games included Tennessee, Michigan is out because they agreed to travel to a tough place like Eugene, Oregon. Florida St is out largely because they have agreed to schedule Miami every year, long after Florida dropped the 'Canes, except in years with a 12th game. LSU risked nothing and is rewarded.

[VermontDem2004]

22. What about USC's non conference schedule?

What did they risk? They did not have to face the same schedule LSU did and I am not so sure SC could've survived with LSU's schedule.

[Awsi Dooger]

23. You can't be serious

At Auburn and at South Bend? Those are potential losses in any year, and certainly when the schedule was made. Three of LSU's non-SEC games were jokes, home to 1-AA Western Illinois, LA-Monroe and (to a lesser degree) La Tech. I don't condemn scheduling a game at Tucson, even though Arizona sucked this year.

Frankly, LSU got extremely lucky with many late season results, in regard to the BCS schedule strength vs. USC. Remember when Auburn dropped a simple TD pass in the final 30 seconds vs. Ole Miss? Or when Wash St blew a 4th quarter lead in the Apple Cup vs. Washington, including 4th down conversions to keep the final drive alive? If either one of those games had gone the other way, USC would be in the Sugar Bowl.

[VermontDem2004]

24. I am very serious

Auburn lost to LSU 31-7 and were not the team they were not the team made out to be at the beginning of the season, do I have to post Notre Dame scores? They struggled to defeat Navy and BYU and got blown out by almost every quality of opponent they faced. LSU's non conference schedule was not as tough as USC's but USC didn't exactly have a tough non-conference schedule either. Remember when Auburn dropped a simple TD pass in the final 30 seconds vs. Ole Miss? Or when Wash St blew a 4th quarter lead in the Apple Cup vs. Washington, including 4th down conversions to keep the final drive alive? If either one of those games had gone the other way, USC would be in the Sugar Bowl.
Remember when Arizona State was ahead of USC for most of the game, if ASU didn't fall flat midway in the third quarter USC would have two losses. I don't really care for "what-if" scenarios, what happened happened and USC will probaly win a national championship anyways without having to play LSU or Oklahoma.

[GumboYaYa]

30. LSU had to schedule W. Ill., b/c

Marshall backed out of their game with us late last spring. We had the date scheduled already and W. Ill. was the only team that could fill the spot. ULM is similar, LSU scheduled Troy State and Troy State decided an early season ass whoopin might not be good for their team. They backed out and we had to schedule ULM. LSU scheduled AZ for this year when AZ was a Top Five team. Unfortunately, they sucked this year. Even with all of that LSU had a stronger schedule than USC. Whatever you do, don't try to argue that LSU intentionally scheduled patsies, that is not the case.

For next year we are scrambling to reschedule for the Va. Tech date on our calendar. Va. Tech wimped out of their side of a home/home series. LSU already filled its committment by playing at Va. Tech last year. What does that say about the strength of the LSU team?

[northzax]

47. actually, there is precedent

2001, Nebraska backed in after getting taken out back of the woodshed by Colorado in the big12 championship game, 66-30 or something like that. and they still got in.

but when it comes down to it, who gives a fuck? I mean really?

[okieinpain]

35. sorry, but they all have one lose. I don't care how you figure it

they all have only one loss. ou has been number one from start to near-finish, so why the hell should they drop to number three.

[Awsi Dooger]

20. I think '98 and '99 were also clear cut

Tennessee and Florida St in '98, and Florida St and Va Tech in '99, were the only major unbeatens going into the bowls, if I remember correctly. Likewise, as you mentioned, with Miami and Ohio St last year.

The disputes were 2000, with FSU annointed over Miami despite the same record, being ranked lower, and having lost to Miami. Washington also had one loss and defeated Miami. In 2001, one-loss Nebraska got the nod over one-loss Oregon. Colorado was somehow one spot below #2 Nebraska despite two losses by the Buffaloes. That was another pitiful BCS ranking that somehow avoided major discussion. A two-loss team should never have come that close to sneaking in.

[RedEarth]

28. As an OU fan...

I have to agree with a sports columnist(Daily Oklahoman) who said "the OU team bus should drive in reverse on the way to the game", since the Sooners backed into the Sugar Bowl. That being said, until all conferences have a conference championship game and until there is a playoff, there will always be debate about who should play for the championship.

Below is some informaiton from Anderson Sports...BCS computer ranking web site....


http://www.andersonsports.com/football/ACF_frnk.html

Showing Which Teams Have Accomplished the Most to Date

Oklahoma Edges LSU for #1, with
USC a Relatively Distant 3rd
With all due respect to #3 USC, the teams most deserving of invitations to the Sugar Bowl are #1 Oklahoma and #2 LSU
All 3 teams have 1 loss, and USC simply has not beaten anywhere near the caliber of teams that Oklahoma and LSU have beaten:
Based on teams' current rankings, Oklahoma and LSU have each played 2 games vs. better teams than USC's toughest opponent, and they have each played 5 games vs. better teams than USC's 2nd-toughest opponent
USC has not played a current top-15 team, and the Trojans are only 2-1 vs. the current top-40, despite playing #38 and #40
The best team USC has beaten is #18 Washington St., while Oklahoma has beaten #5 Texas, and LSU has beaten #12 Georgia twice
The 2nd-best team USC has played is #38 Cal, which beat the Trojans
Oklahoma and LSU have each lost only to a current top-25 team (#16 Kansas St. and #24 Florida, respectively), and they have combined for 9 wins over teams currently ranked higher than Cal
As the following list shows, USC has posted only 2 of the 10 best wins by these 3 teams (based on teams' current rankings): 1. Oklahoma over #5 Texas, 2. (tie) LSU over #12 Georgia (regular season), 2. (tie) LSU over #12 Georgia (SEC championship game), 4. USC over #18 Washington St., 5. Oklahoma over #19 Oklahoma St., 6. LSU over #20 Arkansas, 7. LSU over #23 Mississippi, 8. Oklahoma over #31 Texas Tech, 9. Oklahoma over #32 Missouri, 10. (tie) USC over #40 Auburn, 10. (tie) LSU over #40 Auburn
In sum, the Trojans' top wins are over much worse teams than the Sooners and Tigers have beaten, and the Trojans' loss is to a much worse team too: Oklahoma and LSU deserve to play in the Sugar Bowl

[GumboYaYa]

29. First let me say GEAUX TIGERS!!!!

I'm not ashamed to admit that I did shed tears after our victory Saturday night. After waiting a lifetime to see this happen, it was too much for me to handle when it actually did happen.

I don't think there is any doubt that LSU won its spot in the Sugar Bowl on the field. They took it to Georgia something good Saturday night.

I wish we were playing USC. I honestly think LSU and USC may be playing the best football of any two teams at this point in the season. Plus, seeing the USC offense take on the LSU defense would be something special.

As it worked out, we are pretty much back to where this would have played out prior to the BCS. A USC/Michiogan Rose Bowl for a piece of the MNC will be a special game. I have no problem with the split. USC is a deserving team and is getting screwed badly by the BCS.

Good luck to the Trojans. Hopefully we can schedule a USC/LSU game for early next year.

[underpants]

31. Um what about Miami (of Ohio)

They trounced Marshall (never heard of plans for MU to play LSU but the Va.Tech thing doesn't surprise me)

Marshall beat Kansas State in ManHattan KS

KSU trounced OU

SO why isn't Miami of OHIO in the final game (s). :shrug:

[GumboYaYa]

33. I watched the Miami (OH) game last week.

They are a decent team, but if they played on the same field as USC, LSU, or OK they would get their asses handed to them. I have no doubt about that. Miami (OH) is simply not in the same league as the other top three teams.

[underpants]

40. I know I know but TCU is ducking them now

Remember TCU the "why can't we get a chance" team who promptly lost and had to give up that argument? Well they were invited to the GMAC Motor City Bowl (I think)and declined mainly, it has been said, because the would have to play Miami OH, funny they are both from midmajors. If you want to play with the big boys you have to be willing to play against your peers.

[GumboYaYa]

41. Gotcha, I had not heard that.

That's the problem with SOS. A team does not control that. Alll a team can do is win the games they play.

Unfortunately, there is no perfect solution. I kinda like all the arguments over the BCS and who should be number one. A split title is no so bad if it hapens.

Bottom line is if you take care of business on the field, none of the BCS nonsense matters.

I just hope LSU can do it one more time in New Orleans.

Have I mentioned yet that I'm going to the game? Woohoo, Merry Christmas to me. I'm giving myself two Sugar Bowl tickets this year.

[terryg11]

32. OU lost to a very good KState team

that right now is as hot as anybody. They still deerve a shot at the title like they are getting. Every one else in the BCS has at least one loss and none were to a team of K state's current caliber.

[RedEarth]

34. Vegas odds on the bowl games.....

The early line on the bowl games has OU -6, K State -6.5, USC -6.5 and Fl. State -1. After Sat., I would have thought OU would be an underdog.....interesting. Perhaps we should just poll the bookies to find out who should be number 1. Maybe they know somehting we don't.



http://www.vegasinsider.com/u/odds/15minute/NCAAF_lines.cfm

[YNGW]

36. There won't be a Division 1 playoff

At least not anytime soon.

I agree the BCS screwed up. The Sugar Bowl should be USC and LSU. But let's get past emotions and logic and get down to the meat of this whole thing.

Money. $$$$$$$$$$$$$

There's no way the big bowls and the cities that host them are going to give up the money they make on these bowls. Do you know how much LA and Miami and Dallas and Phoenix and New Orleans make on these bowls because they are on or around NEW YEAR'S DAY?? El super mucho!! You move these bowls away from New Years Day, and much of the money people spend going to these cities a week ahead of the game or staying the week after the game is gone. They aren't going to give that up. Move the Orange Bowl to mid December to accomidate it as a venue for one of the playoff games, and the two teams fans blow into town, stay for a couple of day and leave. When I lived in Miami, there were more people from Oklahoma or Nebraska in Miami than there was left in the two states for the week proir to the game. Too much $$$$$$$$ to the cities involved.

[underpants]

39. Also when mentioned to player reps they had one demand

Health Insurance

This happened a few years ago and some of the leading juniors and a few sophs were brought together to talk about it and the first thing (it ended the discussion) they mentioned was that they were fully willing to go along with it if they could get health insurance. The meeting promptly broke up.

[Kazak]

37. Not at all...

The two teams that should be there, are there. When USC's crappy conference decides to play a championship game, we can talk...until then, WAAAA!!!

[YNGW]

38. Who's in the Big 12...

....that's any good? Oklahoma can't even win their conference championship. K-State is nothing great. Texas is the same. They all have good records because they beat up a bunch of weak teams in their own conference. Colorado, Texas A&M, Iowa State, Baylor, Nebraska, Missouri, Texas Tech, Oklahoma State, and Kansas all sucked this year. A few of them made it into peon bowls just because the BSC platform requires the conference to fill so many slots. The Big 12 is overrated this year.

[PVnRT]

42. Kansas sucked????

What football season have you been watching? They had their best season in years; they beat Missouri for the first time in a while, and are finally going back to a bowl game. That's hardly "sucked."

[YNGW]

43. You beat the mighty Mizzu Tigers

WHOO-HOO!!!!!!!!!!

[ironflange]

45. Also beat Jacksonville State! Yeah!

Oops, lost to Northwestern.

[fishnfla]

46. With the old bowl system...

None of these teams would be playing each other (USC, OU,LSU) So the BCS is some improvement, but there's gotta be a better way. 4 or 8 team playoff.

personally, I think Michigan will beat USC, so all this "chaos" will be for nought