To the MN twins.

[Deja Q]

You pay for your own fucking stadium. I never use it, why should I pay for it? Pohlad has all the money and more. It's his responsibility. Not ours.

[FunkyLeprechaun]

1. I Like it

I don't know why they want a new stadium.... The Red Sox has had Fenway Park longer than the Twins' 'Dome and the 'Dome is so unique to the Twins (the Vikes maybe but growing up it was the Twins.. and.. *sniff*.. I'm sorry I can't say his name without crying).

I've always watched my favourite players there. I think its perfectly fine. Maybe Pohlad should buy it (clue me in on the 'dome news, please)?

[SaveElmer]

3. Baseball in the dome is not profitable...

Football is another story. The NFL is so rich is matters little where a team plays.

Baseball needs add on amenities and luxury seats to be profitable.

[KitchenWitch]

4. As a person who goes to Twins games

The dome is terrible. It was not popular when it was built and as far as sightlines for baseball, it is a terrible venue.

[SaveElmer]

5. It was built for football primarily...

With baseball as the secondary tenant...hence the baggie!

[KitchenWitch]

6. Exactly

and guess who gets the concessions revenue generated by Twins games....You got it, the Vikings! :eyes:

[SaveElmer]

7. Not a surprise...I don't like that owners don't build these themselves...

But I just don't see any way around it. The tax they are talking about is really very minor, and excludes clothing, medicine and food. We're talking 3 cents on every $20 purchase. It would be worse if the Twins moved.

This really isn't a whole lot different than cities that build conventions centers to attract business, just not as much publicity surrounding those.

[KitchenWitch]

8. I agree with you on all counts in this issue

[Left Is Write]

17. I agree with you.

[_testify_]

10. You're kidding me!

That's reason enough for a new stadium!

[FunkyLeprechaun]

11. Aw

I can agree with you there... it seems better for football.

but can't you give a girl a little bit of nostalgia... I've got piccies of me at the 'dome when Kirby was playing and me being so excited.

That's what I feel with the 'dome.

[SaveElmer]

15. Yeah I know...I felt the same way about the old Met...

Went to my first game there...saw Killebrew, Oliva, and the rest. I went to Blyleven's first game as a Twin there...

But there will be new memories created at a new stadium!

[FunkyLeprechaun]

22. The only thing I remember was the Met..

being demolished..

I'm that young (will be 25 next month).

I kind of like the idea of open air stadiums (the Fens is nice) but MN falls seem to be unpredictable so I lean towards the Blue Jay's stadium (retractable roof).

What do you think?

[SaveElmer]

24. Retractable would be preferable...but

Open air is fine...they survived all those years in the Met...

Weather is a bit unpredictable in the spring and fall though

[FunkyLeprechaun]

27. Could the twins...

Survive in an open air stadium?

[SaveElmer]

30. Oh I think so...

And the retro thing is big now...

They may have a few snow outs at the beginning of the year, but it should be fine!

[KitchenWitch]

31. And snow outs early in the season

lead to double headers later...I am not against double headers!
:)

[FunkyLeprechaun]

34. The problem

I have with open air is... snow getting on your bum..

Being too 'Domey here and all :(

[KitchenWitch]

35. One learns to dress for it.

Look at Lambeau field (yes I know Packers :puke:)

Does not matter how cold or snowy, the stands are full and 99% of the people there are dressed for the weather. The 1% of drunken morans with no shirt on and chests painted green, well, not much to do about them.

[FunkyLeprechaun]

39. How about

just getting a beer to keep warm..

I've had my share of sitting out in the cold for my HS football team (go Mayo!!) but the MHS cheerleaders fortunately thought of interactive crowd things such as "alligator, alligator, eat 'em up eat 'em up." (the cheerleader captain knew me via my sister and made up certain cheers so I could see what they were doing, which was nice and changed my opinion about cheerleaders basically.)

In my most humble and honest opinion... the Vikings cheerleaders are basically... bleh. I'm a girl and I could be exicted with male cheerleaders but.. comeon.. do something!

That's one thing about the Twins I like.. no scantily clad cheerleaders!

And how do they keep warm?

[no name no slogan]

37. My first twins memories are at the Met, too

I was a pre-teen and it was a beautiful summer day, with the temps in the 80s. It was probably in '80 or '81, right before they decommissioned the Met Stadium.

I've been to dome games, too, but I still miss the Met. The dome is not a good baseball stadium, but it wasn't designed to be one, either.

I wish Pohlad would loosen his purse strings, but I don't see that happening. However, I also think it's unfair that this tax is being pushed on Hennepin county taxpayers without them having any vote on it. That just seems dubious to me.

If the stadium truly is a regional asset, then everybody in the region should help pay for it. Set up a non-profit corp to build it and manage it, and donate any excess earnings to charities.

[SaveElmer]

42. Well they do have a vote...

Every November they get to vote for county commissioner. These people are elected to make these decisions, and the fact that the four commissioners that voted for the stadium plan were pro-stadium was not a secret.

The stadium, its benefits and weaknesses, the financing proposals are all fairly complex, and easily demogogued. There is no way, even the most enlightened voter can really wade through all of it in terms of a campaign. It is this precise thing for which we elect representatives.

[no name no slogan]

43. Partially why I voted with my feet

Thankfully I moved out of Hennepin County last year. The commissioners who voted for the plan were pro-stadium, true, but OTOH Hennepin County residents had no idea that THEY would be the ones who would make the public contribution for the stadium, NOT the state.

There's other parts of the county budget that need severe fixing, especially with the cutbacks in state spending for human services and education. Once we get those levels back up to pre-Pawlenty spending, then we can worry about building a playground for Pohlad.

It's a matter of priorities. And right now, subsidized baseball stadiums for a league with inequitable distribution of resources is not one of mine-- or many other Minnesotans.

[SaveElmer]

46. One really has nothing to do with another...

Financing for the stadium affects no other areas of the budget. They are seperate issues. There is no general revenue from either the state or the county involved. This issue has been going on for 10 years, and while full financing by the owner is preferable, it is not realistic. That is the economic lay of the land. A 3 cent tax on every $20 purchased (excluding food, medicine, and clothing), seems a reasonable plan to me. It would be worse to lose the team, which is a possibility.

And I do believe it is possible for legislators to multitask, and in fact have already passed this. Fact is, the baseball team being in Minneapolis is good for the city and for the county.

[KitchenWitch]

16. I have been to both the Metrodome and the old Met Stadium

I will miss the Metrodome if and when the Twins get a new stadium, but I am far more nostalgic for the old Met Stadium.

[Left Is Write]

19. Ain't that the truth.

And Met Center too - I saw many a North Stars game there, and I went to my first concert there.

[FunkyLeprechaun]

25. North Stars...

They've brought back the old North Stars uniforms...

It's nostalgia all around.

[KitchenWitch]

29. I used to do volunteer work with Pharm House at the old Met Center

during concerts.

[regnaD kciN]

40. Multipurpose stadia have been a bad idea...

There were a whole lot of them built in the '60s and '70s. Prior to that, a stadium was either built for baseball (Fenway, Wrigley, the Polo Grounds, etc.) or football (Soldier Field, Lambeau Field). Sure, given the necessity, you could fit football in a baseball stadium (the N.Y. Giants at Yankee Stadium) or baseball somewhat uncomfortably in a football field (the Dodgers at L.A. Memorial), but they were usually only stopgap measures.

Starting around 1965, though, multipurpose stadia became the "trendy" thing. These circular, futuristic designs sprung up everywhere: Atlanta, Houston, Cincinnati, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, D.C., Oakland, San Diego, Seattle, Minnesota. Other parks such as Candlestick and Anaheim were "converted" for mulitpurpose use.

Most of these have now been demolished, replaced by a dedicated stadium for each of the two teams. In other cases, such as Anaheim, the stadium still remains, but the "conversion" was de-converted to allow the field to return to its single-purpose use.

The fact is that multipurpose parks have been proven to be a bad idea. The logistics of watching baseball and football are different in everything from seat angles to distance from the field, and trying to combine them only results in a mediocre experience for both sports.

[hfojvt]

44. as I recall

it did win a series for the Twinks though. 4 games in the HHH dome, 4 Twins victories.

[KitchenWitch]

45. Two World Series' were won there.

[Left Is Write]

14. I hate the dome.

I loved going to Twins games at the Met when I was a kid.

[SaveElmer]

2. In fantasy land that would be great...

Not the reality however...that is the lay of the land.

The latest proposal looks reasonable and in my opinion is the best option.

btw: Pohlad would not own the stadium, Hennepin County would own it.

[KitchenWitch]

9. Are you watching the game?

My heart is pounding out of my chest!

[SaveElmer]

12. I'm tracking it online...

Is it still 10-10?

[KitchenWitch]

13. Yes

one on one out runner at second base

[SaveElmer]

20. Yeah Baby!!!

Just saw that winning run pop up!!!

[KitchenWitch]

21. This game rocked!

We were down 9-4 at one point!

[SaveElmer]

23. Wow...the pitching is having trouble gettin cranked up...

Hitting looks good though...they outta be tough when the pitching comes around!

Who started tonight?

[KitchenWitch]

26. Kyle Lohse

Or if you like, Lyle Kohse (Lyle is the loser)

[SaveElmer]

28. Man he looked so good in the spring...

Oh well...they'll get their mojo going here soon!

[FunkyLeprechaun]

18. I had to go to Boston

Damn.. could have watched it on telly instead of my presentation!

[Blue_Tires]

32. amen to that shit

and that message should be forwarded to ALL sports teams trying to seduce/cajole/bribe/extort their entire fanbase and city into footing most, if not all of the bill...

Marlins, Nationals, and the others in the NBA/NFL, I'm looking in your direction as well...

[SaveElmer]

33. You do have your facts wrong on some of this...

While it is true that over the life span of the stadium about 3/4 of the financing comes from the county, the initial funds for construction come from a contribution by the Twins (130 mil), and from the sale of construction bonds. The tax is designed to pay the interest on those bonds over like 30 years, which will ultimately amount to 3/4 of the financing cost. No general revenue from either the county or state is used. There is also revenue from rent paid by the twins, and taxes on tickets, concessions etc. The tax itself excludes staples such as food, clothing and medicine and amounts to 3 cents on every $20 purchase.

Nationals already have their stadium bill so you can look away from there. Marlins are gonna get San Antonio to help them build a stadium.

Like everyone I wish the owners would pay all of the costs for these, but businesses of every kind get this kind of government incentive. Tax breaks for relocating, infrastructure improvements, and convention centers. It's the lay of the land. Unless you are willing to lose the team, which I think most are not, this is how these things are financed now.

[Blue_Tires]

36. yeah, i know the nats are a done deal

but you can't argue that the city got bent over for the $535 million publicly funded....


and the marlins are going to san antonio? we'll see--I'm willing to bet that if they did move and get everything they wanted from SA, they would STILL pinch the same amount of pennies as they do now....if all these teams are having trouble remaining profitable with their current homes, then maybe some new ownership needs to give it a try...

[SaveElmer]

41. Nats are a bit different....

The vast majority of the stadium funding is coming on taxes of tickets, concessions etc, plus a business tax actually agreed to by the businesses in DC. In this case, since most of those attending the games are coming from outside the city, it is almost like a commuter tax. Gives DC a revenue stream it didn't have before to pay for most of the stadium cost.

San Antonio levied a tax (I forget the type), to build an arena for the Spurs. That tax is due to expire soon, but the thought is they would extend it to build a stadium for the Marlins.

Frankly, South Florida was a bad place to put a major league team. You just knew the fan support would be lacking there. I think San Antonio would be a better fit for them.

Marlins have penny piched, but they have also won two world series in the last ten years. Alot of cities would give their left n** for that kind of success.

[WildEyedLiberal]

47. I wonder why Miami is a bad market for baseball?

It's not really an area completely obsessed with another sport like football or basketball, and given the large number of Latinos, for whom baseball tends to be the most popular American sport, it's odd that the Marlins didn't enjoy more popularity than they did.

[mduffy31]

38. Why do you hate America?