Battle of the losers: Hippies vs. Emo-people

[JVS]

Poll question: Battle of the losers: Hippies vs. Emo-people

Which group of people that show their non-conformity by not conforming in an identical fashion sucks worse?

[EstimatedProphet]

1. Oh please!

Emos desperately want your sympathy. True hippies just want to be left alone.

[JVS]

2. Hippies don't want to be left alone. They want to freak you out...

and make you feel bad because you enjoy soap.

[EstimatedProphet]

5. Bull.

That's just a dumb old wives tale.

[JVS]

7. I have found that one cannot mention dislike of hippiness without...

the hippies trying to explain that they're right. They're worse than the fucking "Jehovah's Witnesses" The hippie claims to want to be left alone, but cannot handle rejection

[EstimatedProphet]

9. The hippie did more to end the Vietnam war

than anyone else in this country.

[JVS]

10. Nixon ended Vietnam, not a bunch of stinking hippies

:hide:

[EstimatedProphet]

11. Only after he fought ending it for years

Hippies are on our side. I don't believe in picking on people that are on our side.

[JVS]

12. What about the sold out one's? They betrayed us!

Besides, by crediting people for being on "our side" you become like the East German Figure Skating Judge

[EstimatedProphet]

13. ?

The who?
???

[mdmc]

45. whats emo estimated?

:shrug:

[EstimatedProphet]

66. Emo

[Crazy Dave]

30. Or anybody different

There's so many people who would love to bring back concentration camps/gulags for those who are different, those who disagree with their political ideals, those who annoy them, etc.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

72. The Vietnam War ended itself.

Hippies didn't do a damn thing about it. Years and years of massive protests, and yet how many Presidential elections went by without a change in war policy?

[tigereye]

78. all of those protests ultimately did make a difference

by all sorts of people, not just "hippies."

You are incorrect.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

80. Then let me ask you

Sans protests, how much longer do you think the war would have continued?

[tigereye]

82. good question

here's one view....
http://www.wellesley.edu/Polisci/wj/Vietnam/ThreeImages/brady2.html

http://www.answers.com/topic/vietnam-war for a fairly lengthy overview....

snip...
U.S. military leaders had difficulty fighting a guerrilla army, yet repeatedly claimed that Viet Cong and North Vietnamese forces were losing the war. On January 30, 1968, the Viet Cong and the North Vietnamese made a surprise attack on thirty-six major cities and towns during the Tet (lunar new year) festival. Though U.S. troops repelled these attacks, the Tet offensive undermined the credibility of U.S. military leaders and of Johnson himself, who had claimed the war was close to being won. Antiwar sentiment in the United States grew after Tet as the public became skeptical about whether the war could be won and, if it could, how many years it would take to achieve victory.

The 1968 presidential campaign of Minnesota antiwar Senator Eugene McCarthy gained popularity after Tet. On March 31, 1968, Johnson announced that the United States would stop bombing North Vietnam above the 20th parallel and that he would not seek reelection to the presidency. Johnson ordered a total bombing halt in October, when North Vietnam agreed to begin preliminary peace talks in Paris. These discussions dragged on during the fall election campaign, which saw Republican Richard M. Nixon elected president.

Nixon sought to preserve the South Vietnamese government while withdrawing U.S. troops. He began a policy of "Vietnamization," which promised to gradually transfer all military operations to the South Vietnamese. During this process the United States would provide massive amounts of military aid. In 1969, when the number of U.S. military personnel in South Vietnam had reached a high of 540,000, Nixon announced a modest troop withdrawal. During 1969 the Paris peace talks continued with the NLF, North Vietnamese, and South Vietnamese, but little progress was made. ... end snip

It did seem that Nixon was relatively unaffected by the protests in his pursuit of victory... I'll have to look and see if there are some authors or pilicy makers from that time who felt that the protests did have an effect.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

85. I think the journalists and photographers did a lot more to end the war.

I think people, for the first time, got to see first hand what kind of horror war really is and, in essence, created the hippies in the first place.

Still, I think the weight of the war itself just grew too much for the American people as a whole and ended when it naturally would have ended, just like how the Iraq war will end. It won't be because of our massive protests, or those of our brethren worldwide. It will be simply because that's when the war can't sustain itself any longer. I wish I could be more optimistic, quite frankly.

[tigereye]

90. but the protests about a war were unprecendented and

quite large compared to past wars. Great numbers of young people ( and older people I presume) had not marched on Washington prior to that, as far as I know.

They stood outside the White House chanting Hey Hey LBJ, how many kids did you kill today? And it could apparently be heard IN the White House. I really don't think that the police had had to defend the White House?admin quite that way before. There were lots of arrests and protests all over the country. This stuff was NOT typical the way it is today and it was on a grand scale.

The pictures were of the protests in many cases and some of them would not have occurred without the protests. Maybe someone who was actually there will chime in (I'm sure there are some actual protestors from those times around). I was only in my early teens at the time. You would see riots and protests and the people shooting in the Vietnam jungle on tv, every night, at dinner time. That was unprecedented for the time.

One other interesting difference is the number of soldiers killed in Vietnam was much higher than the current war and I suspect that this is another reason why larger numbers of people have not taken action.

[uppityperson]

20. Those people are not hippies, just pretend ones

ones that glommed onto the surface shit and missed the bigger picture. We want to be left as we are, and hate pretenders being taken for the real thing.

[JVS]

36. 2 points

1. Your arguing seems to prove my point.

2. Have you ever heard of the No True Scotsman fallacy?

[uppityperson]

41. aww, leave me alone (1), and no (2) but I've heard of no...

thing on under a kilt

[leeroysphitz]

44. Which is why you quickly attack anyone who looks at your

message with respect but tries to expand or modernize it to better reflect the (NON) 1960 times...

[uppityperson]

47. If you mean #41, it was a joke

forgot the jokie smiley, sorry. Just responding to Scottsman thing (which I've never heard of )with a kilt joke (which I have heard of), and the hippies claim they want to be left alone that JVS said. I did not mean to have it be an attack. And, btw, I don't claim I want to be left alone, but be part of the world citizenshipness.

[leeroysphitz]

48. Sweet nt

[bridgit]

27. i can tell you never knew any...

:rofl:

[CanuckAmok]

52. "Never fear, the Cosmic FOOOOOOOOL is here!"

Hey, how do you hide money from a hippie?

Put it under the soap!

[name not needed]

61. Bu-bu-bu-but the poncho!

[JVS]

63. Uptown Girl!

[sasquatch]

83. .

:thumbsup::D

[Ava]

3. emos no doubt!

[JVS]

4. I say it's a draw

[Redstone]

6. What are "emo people?"

Redstone

[JVS]

8. Click here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=5059632&mesg_id=5059632

[Redstone]

15. Oh. They're people with long bangs who like to be photographed

from above. Well, then...how's the weather been out your way?

Redstone

[DS1]

17. *LOL*

Most concise definition of emo ever :thumbsup:

[LSdemocrat]

22. Emo-people actually exist?

I thought they went extinct. Who knew?

[XemaSab]

14. Modern hippies DEFINITELY win that one

Wearing $80 corduroy pants, $100 sandals, a $30 t-shirt, and a $60 sweatshirt all to show that you reject capitalist, corporate ideas of trendiness and you're a nonconformist... :eyes:

Especially when you're banging on a $200 drum and smoking $50 worth of bud in a $60 pipe. :eyes::eyes:

And hanging out with 20 of your closest friends who are all sporting the same look.... :eyes::eyes::eyes:

I know 2 people who I think really exemplify the best of hippiedom: Eddie and Elias. Eddie only shops at thrift stores and he's not shy about wearing clothes with permanant dirt stains, and Elias wears the same pants EVERY DAY, owns chickens (in town!), and installed his own solar panels. Eddie and Elias, :yourock:

I also know about 30 assholes who identify as hippies who are the flakiest, shallowest bunch of posers you will ever meet... :eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes:

[EstimatedProphet]

67. And see, I'd wear my $10 Dead shirt and old jeans

and cheap sandals. I had a set of bongos for a while, they were $65. I'd smoke out of a paper or a $10 bong.

[nemo137]

110. Oh, man. The hippie store in the town I gew up sold 30$ bars of "natural

soap," 80$ rag-corduroy pants, and all kinds of shit, and then had a bunch of CPUSA literature on the table for free. And I'm in there watching my friends' band, and thinking "these are not the people you need to convince, put a copy of Political Affairs or Worker's News or whatever down at Lesiure Tyme Billiards or Los Portales, not at the magical emporium of Hippie McUselessshit."

[no name no slogan]

16. "Punkers" after 1979

are about as "cool" as Hippies after 1968. Or "beatniks" after 1958. Or "flappers" after 1930.

[asthmaticeog]

29. Bingo.

Making a lifestyle out of one's elders' warmed-over nostalgia is weak no matter who's doing it. I spent the '90s baffled by how all those identity crisis chumps who dressed up as '77 London punks weren't treated with the same scorn as the rich kids in the '80s who superficially embraced Deadhead culture.

:puke:

[JVS]

38. Hey, I know some flappers and they're fucking awesome!

[LeftPeopleFinishFirst]

50. The punk scene was relevant in the 1980s too.

nt

[JVS]

65. Was it really? Or was it just claiming to be?

[no name no slogan]

105. Hardcore, maybe. Punk was dead by 1980.

The Hardcore scene (which grew out of punk) may have had some legs, but it was NOT punk. Fashionwise, it borrowed from punk, but musically it had as much in common with heavy metal as it did punk.

[Blue_Tires]

18. no love for goths in your poll?

lol

[WeRQ4U]

19. The "Trustafarian" Hippies....

Hands down.

[uppityperson]

21. Emos have no social conciousness, true hippies do

Emos just want to suffer, in silence, in your face as much as they can because no one knows or cares how they feel or are and it is all about them. wahhhh

True hippies want to have a peaceful, integrated with the world life, sharing and loving and being.

Guess that tells you where my loyalties lay.

[Seabiscuit]

23. OK, where did the (word?) "EMO" come from and can anyone actually

define what it means?

Aside from the pictures of those kids hiding behind their long bangs, what the fuck is an EMO? Is it more than just a bad hair day?

[JCMach1]

24. Emo anyone?

Emo Phillips

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

25. It stands for emotional.

Emo is a subset of the punk scene. It's a specific type of punk music in which people whine.

[Seabiscuit]

26. Thank you.

[Robb]

28. Best. Poll. Ever.

:thumbsup:

[JVS]

40. I'm glad you like it!

[TheBaldyMan]

31. other: Goths

:hide:

[ET Awful]

32. By far the biggest losers are . . .

those who worry about subcultures they aren't even remotely connected to and pretend to know everything there is to know about said subcultures.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

33. I agree.

I know cool emo kids and lame emo kids. Personally, I hate emo music, but I'm not going to harass them about it. So I don't like their music, I can still like the person. I have hippie friends that are way cool and know other hippies that are just dirty losers. I love going up to New Paltz and hanging out with my hippie friends. I definitely don't look like a hippie with my gap & abercrombie clothes, but I still enjoy some of the hippie scene.

Edited to say: You can't discount one any one group of people on the basis of their subculture. Every group has it's losers and every group has it's cool people.

[Chovexani]

70. Curse you and your Earth logic!

:)

[JVS]

39. No actually the biggest losers are cat owners!

[Chovexani]

69. Preach on.

Of course, as a goth, I could be biased.

I'm sort of wondering why people can't leave each other the fuck alone.

[GreenPartyVoter]

127. You got my vote

[Renew Deal]

34. Kill the hippies

[Swede]

35. Aren't we feeling superior?

I guess you had a brush cut and black rimmed glasses like all the cool guys back then?

[JVS]

37. I was never Emo, they suck!

[ldf]

42. and i suppose you mean that in a BAD way?

:shrug:

[JVS]

56. Yes, the bad kind of sucking

[swag]

43. Hard to tell. They're all so cool.

[Floogeldy]

46. I'm tired of these uninformed, ignorant hippy bashing threads.

I was a long-haired musician back in the seventies. Many people considered me a hippy. I was very clean. Chicks loved the way I smelled and tasted.

Sure, there were some nomadic, homeless wanderers back in the sixties that didn't bathe regularly.

But this "dirty hippy" stereotype is bullshit. It's a continuation of the right-wing redneck "Refugee from a gorilla love-in," "America, love it or leave it" mindset that the Neocons embrace.

Fuck.

[twenty2strings]

49. JVS...congratulations. You're better than everyone else.

You are a real individual. I bet you have lots of friends. Can I join your Bund. :puke:

[JVS]

55. No, you can't join me. I kick ass and you don't so you can't blend!

[twenty2strings]

71. Yay.

[HEyHEY]

88. What a great sense of humour you have - must be a blast at parties

[twenty2strings]

93. I'm so desperately lonely. I just wanted to be noticed....

I am so sorry for any discomfort I have caused you, I know I'm ugly and boring and have nothing to say that anyone seems to care about.:grouphug:

[JVS]

96. You also smell bad

now quit trying to hug people you dirty hippie!

[twenty2strings]

97. I scrub and scrub but to no avail...Please like me.

:hi:

[JVS]

98. No! I cast thee out!

[twenty2strings]

100. Wull,okay...Lentils don't have the nutritional value of soybeans

But they cook faster and you can put soy sauce and hot sauce on them and they are really quite tasty. I would share but I guess you guys are busy. I wish I had a rockin' music band to be the lead singer in. I'd be really good because I really try hard to get along with everybody and never cause a fuss. What kind of music band would be the best for me. I like pie,and kitties:loveya:

[LeftPeopleFinishFirst]

51. Who gives a shit?

Take into the account that there are no true non-conformists in this world, and that we are all inevitably tainted by the mainstream and normal society.

Non-conformity is an illusion.

[HEyHEY]

89. University is making you soo deep

;-)

How is it going, by the way

[LeftPeopleFinishFirst]

91. Bah!

two more weeks until i'm finished. eek! it went so fast.

[ghostsofgiants]

102. Psshh, two weeks? I finished up on Saturday.

:P

[name not needed]

103. Two weeks American time. Not two weeks fucked up Canada time.

[ghostsofgiants]

104. Two weeks American is like six months Canadian.

[LeftPeopleFinishFirst]

106. HUSH YOU

!! i'm actually done with my shit thursday night, but am going to be here another week for random year endy type things

[ghostsofgiants]

107. I tease because I love.

:P

[name not needed]

115. I tease because it's easier than being sincere.

[LeftPeopleFinishFirst]

121. hmmph.

OKAYYYY. :*

[patcox2]

119. Conforming to a non-conformist model.

most so called 'non-conformists" I have known are actually mroe conformist than most mainstreamers, they conform rigidly to their nonconforming ways. Cults are that way.

Its too lonely to be a true non-conformist.

Defining oneself by a rejection or reaction against something is never good anyway, be what you perceive as good, as opposed to being being anti-what you perceive as bad.

[RandomKoolzip]

53. Goths are much worse than either.

[TK421]

54. Could someone tell me what the hell an emo is?

:shrug: I'm a bit out of the loop here

[name not needed]

60. Read up.

http://www.fourfa.com/

[TK421]

68. Seems like more whining music to me....woe is me melodies

:eyes: Wait a sec!....I feel it coming on! AGgghhh :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:

[anarch]

74. A large, flightless Australian bird (Dromiceius novaehollandiae)

related to and resembling the ostrich and the cassowary.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

57. I don't think Elmo is a loser at all

my grandchildren love him. Red and shaggy. Always happy.

[JVS]

58. He's only happy because of the pills. Elmo's life is a lie

[TallahasseeGrannie]

59. Dear God, NO!

[name not needed]

62. Elmo shoots heroin in the bathroom at the bus station.

[JVS]

64. And you don't want to even know what he does in that bathroom...

to make the money to buy the heroin

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

73. Long Island hippies.

My first year in college, I lived in a dorm full of them. Seriously, I almost gave one of them a quarter because I thought he was homeless. Now, of course, I'm cordial and made small talk with them and such. After Christmas Break, I asked the "homeless" kid how his vacation was. Response:

"Oh, we took a lovely cruise through the Bahamas. It was delicious!"

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[ComerPerro]

75. I hate emo-kids

[WCGreen]

76. I'm an old hippie.....

Just bein' me...

Don't care what anyone else says or does...

But I have opinions...

Not afraid to voice them to whoever or whenever...

Don't take drugs...

Make what I need for money...

Don't much care for the Dead or Phish....

I like jeans that fit....

I wear tennis shoes or top siders....

Tweed Jackets...

And T-shirts, preferably without slogans....

[DrGonzoLives]

77. OMG!!

Everything good that has ever happened has happened because of hippies! WHY DO THEY LET FREEPER TROLLS IN HERE??? :sarcasm:

[tigereye]

79. um dear,

there really aren't any real hippies, anymore.

[LynneSin]

81. When are the damn emos going to get out and protest the war

personally, I think we need to start the draft again and enlist all the emos - maybe give them a wake up call to reality!

Hippies at least tried to do something to change the world

[JVS]

84. Isn't it enough for them to be really sad because of it?

[LynneSin]

87. I'm really sad because of it too -which is why I protest when I can

:D

[ghostsofgiants]

101. Umm...

Even though I don't usually refer to Bright Eyes or Death Cab for Cutie as emo, they do have a considerable following of emo kids, and they were both on the Vote For Change tour (and try looking at some Bright Eyes' lyrics, like "When The Presedent Talks To God" or the fourth verse in "Let's Not Shit Ourselves" or just about any song by Conor's other band, Desaparecedos). Then you have bands like The Get Up Kids (one of the most influential emo bands of all time), involved with Punkvoter.

And excactly how many emo kids do you know? When was the last time you went to an emo show and talked politics with the kids?

So how about you cut the condescending bullshit. Maybe they're not as vocal as the hippies were, but they're also nowhere near as big a youth movement as the hippies were. To assume that that means they're all apathetic is pretty fucking ignorant. And don't even get me started on that "let's reinstate the draft to teach these kids a lesson" shit.

[nemo137]

109. Or most of "I'm Wide Awake It's Morning"

Connor is very political, and emo grew out of (as hard as it is to believe if you listen to modern neu emo shit like Hawthorne Heights) the very political DC hardcore scene.

[ghostsofgiants]

111. Exactly!

Wide Awake is probably my favourite Bright Eyes album, actually.

Emo is like any genre though: there's good stuff, amongst a whole slew of shit.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

117. Amen

I live in the Williamsburg neighborhood of Brooklyn (hipster-central -- which brings me to another point: these people referred to as "emo", is that just someone's definition of hipster? Cause the people pictured above look like hipsters to me -- I'm friends with several and not a one of them listens to anything that would be considered "emo".)

Anyway, I digress. The point is is that those kids poured into the city in droves to protest during the RNC. I know because I saw them on the train every morning as I was on my way into work. In fact, the hipster or "emo-people" were about the only actual sizable demographic I saw protesting during that week.

Likewise, I could go find a politically-motivated (anti-Repub) show/performance/play/etc. just about any night of the week in my little neighborhood. The idea that hipsters or "emo-people" are apathetic or non-politically minded is completely absurd.

If you think that their style of dress is silly, fine; however, it's a little absurd to knock people as "losers" and apathetic and to blame them for the state of the country just because you're not hip to the way they dress or cut their hair. To me, that attitude smacks of conservatism by it's very definition.

[Scruffbunny]

86. EMO EMO Emu?

That's all I have to say.

[MrSlayer]

92. Both suck. Emos are just a little suckier.

Just this >< much worse.

[JVS]

95. That's keeping it real!

[Dukkha]

94. Hippies YAY Emo NAY

Hippies:
created some of the most influential music in rock/pop history
ended the Vietnam War
spearheaded the free speech movement
created the ecology/environmental movement of the 70's
promoted non-violent civil disobedience
influenced the trend of organic farming & communal living
major influence of modern art, literature & fashion still today

Emo:
ummmmm...made incoherent over simplified crappy angry music

[name not needed]

99. Hippies.

Emo kids shower. They're annoying as all fuck, but they shower.

[JVS]

129. Do they trim certain places as well?

Because that's nice

[Zorra]

108. I see that the GOP propaganda against "hippies" during the Reagan

era was pretty effective.

Here's a clue: No "hippie" ever voted for a republican.

[Robeson]

113. I'd say, your observations, are pretty good, too!.....

...:thumbsup:

[nemo137]

112. I voted for Emo because you didn't list the real object of my ire

Hipsters. Fucking girl-pants-wearing, ironic-shirt-sporting, messenger-bag-carrying, faux-nostalgic, humorless, shitty-book-reading hipsters. They're like emo kids, only soulless. They're the ones with the god-awful obscure music and the masturbatory fascination over what band's the most obscure. They also have the worst piercings and tattoos ever, and should be the natural enemies of real punks everywhere. I mean, let's look at American Punk Offshoot subcultures. You've got your mall-punks, most of whom transform into hipsters in late high school. Then you've got your sad, hold-out Rudeboys and Rudegirls, who are sort of endearing in their dedication to ska. Then you've got hardcore kids and straightedgers, who at least have some ideology to hold on to. And skinheads, who have a community at least. But hipsters? It's like the most soulless parts of the 70's never ended. Fuck. Gah. Fuck. Hipsters. And every hipster at U of I lives in my dorm. Not that they're bad people individually, but that whole movement, especially when you get a pack of hipsters. Bah.

[ghostsofgiants]

114. Ahh, I am so glad that I have gained your acceptance as a hardcore/sXe kid

Phew.

[nemo137]

116. Don't mock. Hipsters are a blight upon western culture.

sXe kids are generally good people.

[ghostsofgiants]

118. Haha...

[nemo137]

122. Yesssssss

[name not needed]

123. Mitch Clem is God.

[name not needed]

120. I don't remember the last time a hipster hit me with an umbrella.

[JVS]

125. Oh shit. I forgot that you were at U of I, are you around for the summer?

[nemo137]

126. No. Going back home to try and scrape up work.

Sorry.

[JVS]

128. Work? That sucks

[JVS]

124. Wow, I can't believe this thread is still alive

[richmwill]

130. Both are bad, in their own ways...

For Emo people, stop whining. Yes, we see that you "live in darkness and see no light"- everyone does at times, NOT just you. Stop thinking that you have "the worst life ever"... you don't. I don't see teenagers in the slums of India, in some of the worst poverty that you can ever imagine, being "emo" and whining about their lives.

Hippies are more complex. I greatly admire the true hippies- those who marched in protests against Vietnam, for civil rights, women's rights, etc. However, those who used the "hippie movement" as an excuse to just stop grooming and taking care of yourself, sitting with your friends stoned out of your gourd all day, listening to bad music and doing nothing to impact a positive social change have my full-felt wrath and anger. They took that movement and used it as an excuse to be lazy, simple as that.

[IronLionZion]

131. Hippies are nice, but emo kids are just so......EMO!!

I have zero tolerance for emos. Their attitudes and general outlook on life just annoys me.

It may sound odd that a corporate free marketeer like me likes hippies, but I do. Helping your fellow people is profitable. Social responsibility is good for the world, and it's good for business.