I am so pissed, I'm spitting nails. (LONG RANT)

[RevCheesehead]

One of my churches is celebrating its 150th anniversary this year. Tomorrow is a pre-celebration, where among other things, they're honoring "Continuing Members". The idea was to recognize people who have been in the church for many years. OK, fine - so I let it go.

The committee had an article published in the local newsrag, listing the names of people who will be honored (basically, 30+ years membership). But the committee did a cut-off at 34 years (DON'T ask me why! :grr:), and now people who are left off the list are pissed.

Now, one of the pastors (from 20 years ago) did NOT keep accurate records, so not everyone's name is registered as members, or their years of membership could not be verified. I can understand that, and I'm willing to give the committee a break. But, there have been problems.

Ever since the article came out on Wednesday, people have been calling, saying they (or their family member) should be on the list. They called the committee chair, who was bitchy, and said "we don't have a record of that, and the paper got the dates wrong." So they call me to complain, and I have to find out what's going on.

When I call the committee chair, I get the same song and dance. They say, "we're not going to get everybody, there will be some mistakes,..." I take that to mean that they will include these people. But Noooooooooo. "We're not giving them certificates."

So I call the co-chair and ASK her to include these people. These members are active, have been here all their lives, and are feeling left out. And to add insult to injury, some of the people being "honored" haven't darkened the doors of the church in over 20 years. Keep in mind that this is a SMALL church, with a membership of just over 100.

The co-chair is even sassier. "Well, you should have said something in the meeting. Are we supposed to honor everyone? Where do we cut off the date? Oh, and I talked to so-and-so, and they're fine with this."
I ask her, politely, to include them, because it's the loving response of the Christian community that matters most, and I'm concerned about people feeling left out. I push it as hard as I can (short of "ordering" them to do it), but they still refuse.

Tonight, after I got home from a wedding reception, one of the members called to tell me that she won't be in church tomorrow. She's just too angry to be there, while she and one daughter are honored, but the other daughter and son are left off the list. She then tells me she's been in conversation with other people, and there are others who won't be showing up, for exactly the same reason.

I apologized, told her I was upset about it, too, and asked her to please contact members of the Pastor-Parish committee, to tell them exactly what happened and why she's angry.

These damned women in the church are cliquish, they only want to include people they like personally, and don't give a DAMN about others' feelings. Even when told that this will cause hurt feelings, they don't care, because it's more important for them to be right. Heaven forbid they should have to revise their plans.

Somewhere, Jesus is weeping. And I can't help but feel that I've failed as a pastor. I've been here for 3 years, and THEY JUST DON'T GET IT.

:banghead::banghead::banghead:

[Syncronaut Seven]

1. Shut it down

Dumb idea, enlightening response, 'eh? Spank all the children. end the game.

[RevCheesehead]

2. It's just a select group of women.

I wish Methodists practiced excommunication.

[Syncronaut Seven]

11. Human nature is a funny thing.

I won't go in to depth about my own observations, but, Robert Anton Wilson's "Prometheus Rising" explains a whole lot. ;)

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1561840564/qid=1145770564/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/104-9793042-5694310?s=books&v=glance&n=283155

[pitohui]

40. you read my mind

my god, i was actually thinking of wilson when i left my post below!

[RevCheesehead]

41. This looks interesting.

Did you find the book helpful?

[Syncronaut Seven]

56. Helpful yes!

The whole time I thought it was just me. :think: It not only explains alot about human nature, it's a good beginners guide to meta programming for humans.

He's a diverse author, very intelligent and always looking in from the outside. Or maybe the inside.

Not all of R.A.W.'s books make good pastoral reading, but his fictions are riotously funny, and quite entertaining. He has a rich sense of irony and his subjects have eerie parallels to modern day power figures.

Don't ask me what a Rhenquist is, please! :rofl: You've been warned!

[enigmatic]

45. RAW is fantastic

I'm glad to see another fan of his; we play his lectures on the station often..

[Fleshdancer]

3. Um, doesn't this defeat the whole point of the celebration???

This is such a ridiculous situation! Why leave people off the list that obviously belong on it?? How is this a celebration of continuing members when this committee is doing the exact opposite?

Don't let their cliquish insanity make you dismiss your success as a pastor. They're not worth it. :hug:

[RevCheesehead]

7. Thanks, Gloria.

I cannot understand why they're so insistent on NOT including these people. What would Jesus do, indeed? :(

[mykpart]

4. The cutoff at 34 years was definitely

done in order to exclude someone in particular that one of the committe members doesn't like. I used to belong to Women's Club and Choir, but I was burned too. My Daddy used to say, "Don't get involved with those people; you'll lose your faith. Just go to church and put your money in the collection plate and go home!"

But, Rev., just because you have some bitchy old ladies being nasty doesn't mean you haven't touched the lives of a lot of other church members!

[Fleshdancer]

6. exactly. 34 years is an odd cut off date. n/t

[RevCheesehead]

9. I think they added 4 years, because they wanted to include one person.

But it's so damned odd. Then, they tell the people who called "We extended the list so we could include Al." WHY did they need to tell them that??? So Al is more important than these other people???

[Floogeldy]

5. Have you considered pizza delivery or working at a Blockbuster?

Peace.

[RevCheesehead]

10. I have often fantasized about working at Blockbuster.

:hi:

[Floogeldy]

14. Me too.

:toast:

[Giant Robot]

69. Blockbuster will steal your soul!

I'm just saying....

[RevCheesehead]

123. And that would be different..... how?

:shrug:

[liberaltrucker]

8. Uh, I thought the Church was a place to worship God

Not a place for petty vanity.
BTW, I'm a Methodist, not exactly
practicing, though.

:blush:

[RevCheesehead]

15. That's my biggest concern of all.

That the day will be dedicated to patting ourselves on the back, and there will be little attention given to worship, God, and Jesus.

When we get to the BIG celebration in September, I'm taking complete control over that service. The Bishop will be here, too.

[liberaltrucker]

23. God doesn't give a rats ass about us back-patting

And He's not impressed with our multimillion $ megachurches.
Lots of folks who think they're with Him will have a lot of
'splanin' to to someday.

[RevCheesehead]

30. "Looooo-cey!"

[liberaltrucker]

32. **

:rofl:

[Race4Peace]

12. you get all offended parties together, and overthrow them!

or you could all get together and say"Look, if you don't straighten this out, we're leaving" and if your group outmasses these elitist bitches that are in control, then you say" WE WANT a DIVORCE" and slice them out.

and if that fails, go to each of their houses at night and weld some"toys" to their car doors and fences and outdoor appliances.

[RevCheesehead]

16. Did I mention that my chief nemesis is a retired pastor's wife?

God, that woman has serious control issues!! :banghead:

[Race4Peace]

25. r-e-v-o-l-t! that's what you must do!

give the bitch the boot! that's all there is to it, unless you later on hafta superglue her front bumper to a flagpole or duct tape her hairbrush to the ceiling.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

13. That is one terrible situation, my dear Rev......

I agree with most of your assessment.....those women are being clique-ish, indeed.....

But....I do NOT think their actions are any kind of reflection on your being pastor.....

They are the ones with the mote in their eyes....not YOU!

And, I also think that if they are going to change, it would take more than three years of anyone's ministering to them.....

Maybe not Jesus, but anyone else would have trouble with these folks....



:loveya: :hug: :yourock:

[RevCheesehead]

19. I dunno, Peg....

I have a feeling some of these were the ones Jesus was talking about when he said "Not all who say 'Lord, Lord," will enter the Kingdom of Heaven.... On that day, I will say 'I do not know you. Go away from me, you evil-doers.'" (Matthew 7: 7-ff)

[politicat]

36. Hm. Got your sermon written for tomorrow?

Why am I thinking about motes and beams right now, and the inclusiveness of the early church?

The one person to whom Jesus talked to on Easter was the harlot (or the three women, depending on which book). The only person to whom he guaranteed a place in heaven was the thief who hung next to him. And he threw the hypocrites out of the temple.

I'd pull rank and kill the ceremony entirely. You have some excellent reasons - people are being deliberately excluded and feelings are being hurt. That's not good for the community as a whole. It could have serious financial consequences in the long term.

I'd be honored to have a minister as principled as you. They don't know how lucky they are. I bet you even visit sick people and listen to the elderly, don't you?

[RevCheesehead]

42. The whole f-in' day is devoted to the celebration.

And I ain't preaching, either. (secret :woohoo:)

You are too kind. Of course I listen to the elderly. I also listen to the children. Their thoughts are just as important (I learned that from Mr. Rogers). And tomorrow, after the celebration, I'll be headed off to the hospital to see a member who went in today.

:hug::loveya:

[politicat]

83. Not being kind....

Anymore, you ARE exceptional.

My great-grandfather was a nearly life member of a community very like yours, in the same sect. He did a lot of work on the fellowship hall, and every autumn when the church had the mission to the Navajo reservation in Arizona, he took the two weeks and went and helped do what needed to be done. (The mission has built schools, housing, installed irrigation, plumbing, rewired, installed chair lifts and ramps... labore est orare principle. It's not a preaching mission.) And they supported financially, too, paying off at least two of the church's mortgages. Yeah, he was an active member, and very deeply, comfortably faithful.

He died last autumn. In his last three years he was housebound (through phobia of falling) and rarely made it to either church on other outings. But the checks to the church arrived monthly and were cashed monthly. And only one of the church leadership came to visit, mostly because she lives across the road and is married to our farm manager, and is second cousin (? something like that -- we're all related, somehow.). Our farm manager's wife, K, is on the Church Council, and she tried valiantly to get the minister to come out a couple of times a month. He showed up twice in three years, and cancelled four times. The rest he skipped. It's not like he lived all that far away, either - 2.5 miles from the parsonage, over straight, usually dry, paved roads. One stop sign and one turn. He knew that his children were welcome in the house, and that our farm manager's daughters were across the street and would happily help out if he couldn't find alternate care for them (his wife is an ICU RN at the local hospital, so he's the primary carer of their 7 and 10 year old.) We didn't ask for much - 20 minutes, twice a month, to pray with an old man.

The one time that the minister did come (while I was there), he spent more time trying to convince my grandfather's nurse to make sure she came to church (yeah, right - she was there round the clock and only had respite help in the mornings) and gossiping with my grandmother (who was very angry with him, but he missed it entirely) than he did in talking to my grandfather, and he either could not or would not remember that my great-grandfather is hard of hearing and reads lips. I admit that I was so angry with him that when the monthly statement came from the accountant for us to approve, my grandmother and I agreed to cut off the financial support. And as far as we can tell, the minister never even noticed.

According to K, he did this with a lot of the elderly and the ill in the community. He was also dismissive of the women in the community (Promise Keeper type to the community's great dismay) and they sent him to the Bishops' council this winter. He's since been replaced, but that doesn't change the fact that he ended up hurting a very old, very gentle man who had devoted his life to his God, his family and his land.

Fortunately, the minister from Hospice turned out to be exactly the opposite, and he and my grandfather had some great time together, but I know my great-grandfather felt very abandoned and hurt.

I would have happily given my left lung to have you out there. Your community does not know how lucky it is.

(Okay, I gotta go have a good cry over my pod peas and bush beans now...)

[RevCheesehead]

91. Oh, what a sad story!!

Tomorrow, I'm going out to visit those I haven't seen in a while. You've inspired me, and reminded me of what's important. :hug:

[mykpart]

17. I have an idea!

Why don't you have certificates made up for every supporting member of the Church? You could hand them out at the ceremony! I'll pay for 'em if you want. (And I'm Catholic!)

[RevCheesehead]

22. Hmmm.... or maybe,

I could hand out Subway gift certificates to those who were left out!

I have a few of those laying around! GREAT IDEA!!!! :bounce::bounce:

[JVS]

18. Hmmm

"These damned women in the church are cliquish, they only want to include people they like personally, and don't give a DAMN about others' feelings."

You see why St. Paul said not to give them any authority in the church now?!? ;-)

Sorry, as an LCMS member, I just had to.

But seriously, I see two ways that you can go on this.

1) Send out a list and everyone who signs on saying that they've been around for 30 years gets recognition. Don't even care if people lie, just go pure honor system.

2) Cancel the whole thing. Make this a topic of your next sermon. Bitch em out real good. A few months ago one of the pastors was upset that he had put a notice in the bulletin in my church asking if anyone could pick up a certain old lady for the 8:00 service on Sunday. Nobody responded. He made a sermon about it and everyone felt pretty worthless and then he talked about forgiveness etc.

[RevCheesehead]

24. LOL!

"He made a sermon about it and everyone felt pretty worthless and then he talked about forgiveness etc..." :rofl:

LCMS, eh? Why don't that surprise me?? :evilgrin:

[JVS]

26. Well you know, the traditional Law and Gospel combo

The law always convicts, always points out our error, always drives us to repentence.

The gospel lets us know that God still loves us and forgives us.

With that grace we can set out to do better. It was actually a good sermon and I must admit that I've been more astute in reading the bulletin to see if anything is needed.

[CC]

20. Unfortunately some people just don't get it.

:hug::hug::hug::hug: So is this weeks sermon going to be on Christian inclusiveness how people should leave their pettiness and squabbles behind and remind them how Jesus welcomes all with open arms equally, and doesn't do cliques?

[RevCheesehead]

27. I'm not preaching.

The local home-boy, Dale, is coming back to preach. He used to be a part of the clique; then he got a call to preach (but only as a local pastor, not an ordained minister). Some people worship him, others hate him. I'm beginning to see their point.

He's been back to do 3 funerals this year (2 of them with me). And, he's still maintaining contact with multiple church members. Once you leave a church, even if it's your home congregation, you're supposed to let go. I forsee a long discussion in our future, and I ain't looking forward to it.


I haven't decided on next week's text yet. :evilgrin:

Nice to see ya, Ferrettessa! :hug:

[CC]

57. That doesn't sound good on the

Dale part. Sounds like he isn't helping. Maybe the Bishop should have that long discussion with him.

As for next week's text, looks like a few good ideas are posted. But you do have the pulpit and it would be a good reminder to those that need a swift kick in the butt. Plus it might make some of those that were left out feel pretty good. Just don't forget the forgiveness part at the end.:evilgrin:

I'm mostly hit and run these days. The outside is almost done but then the hard work starts on the inside. That will be mostly us doing the work so will be mia even more. But it is finally getting done.

[RevCheesehead]

92. Oh, CC - it got even better today! (sarcasm)

When Dale and I sit down to go over the service, I ask him what he wants me to do, besides hand out the certificates. He says "Oh, I've got it covered." Excuse me??? I told him, "I think I need to be doing a bit more. I think I should do the opening announcements."

It was, in every way, the "Pastor Dale Day" that I thought it would be. He sang with the choir. He and two of his friends sang three different songs while he played guitar. He read every part of the liturgy. And right before he did his sermon, he paused, out of breath, and took a long, deliberate drink of water, saying he was exhausted. Asshole.

And, just as I suspected, the people who were hurt and upset did NOT come today. I passed along that tidbit to the committee chair, and she was surprised. I told her "when people's feelings are hurt, they're not going to show up."

I spent the time at the potluck dinner walking around the table, with a basket of tootsie pops for the kids (and anyone else who wanted one); ate with people from my OTHER church who showed up, and got the hell out of there as soon as I could.

[CC]

108. Definitely time for Dale to get a long talking to

and from the Bishop preferably. Should he ever be invited again for some stupid reason, you will have to sit him down and tell him what he is allowed to do. It is your church. You can always explain to the congregation that they obviously over taxed poor Dale today and he can't be expected to do more than say a word or two. He did leave you that opening. :evilgrin: I don't know if a pastor is allowed to be blunt, but it sounds like that might be the only thing that will get through the cliques thick skull. I like blunt pastors on the whole but most people get offended.
Damn I am pissed and I wasn't there, can only imagine how you feel.:hug::hug::hug::hug::hug: The problem is that people like that can tear a church apart. Terry doesn't do organized religion over stuff like that. His mom used to be very active in a church, lots of volunteer stuff and never really wanted to be a part of the politics. The way he puts it, the old biddy's ran her out of the church she was in for 40 plus years. She did go to a different one near the end of her life and she probably forgave those involved, but her son never has. I get to hear how awful they were to her every time we drive by the old church or the newer one. Poppy (Ter's dad) was even more resentful toward them. Course the fundy's aren't helping in the religion part here but that is another story.
I know none of this helps you in your situation beyond that you aren't the only one with selfish people in your church. Maybe part of next weeks sermon should include that it takes much more than going to church to be a Christian and that God sees all including the pettiness. Some people just don't know how lucky they are to have you for a minister. Maybe crispi should lend you her cuffs and whips for a while.:evilgrin: Even supposed grown ups need disciplined once in a while.

[RevCheesehead]

110. ROFLOL!!

:rofl: Or maybe I could bring Crispi to deal with them directly?

Dale's got a lot of learnin' to do yet. He may be older, but he is not experienced in church politics. I'm waiting for the day when he faces what I just did, or when he encounters other people who want to bring back the old pastor.

(I used to get the runaround with funerals in NC. People would tell the funeral home that they wanted the former pastor, and he'd agree. I told the District Superintendent. Melvin got a phone call the next day, and was told to knock it off.)

I dunno - maybe it's because it's his home church, and they've been here for 5 generations. But even so, he is NOT the appointed pastor. And I will have to think seriously about inviting him back again.

The story on Terry's mom, sadly, is not uncommon. If the old people want to know why the churches are dying, they need to stop blaming the pastors, and start looking in the mirror. A long, hard look. Maybe that's why the younger churches are growing... no baggage.

[CC]

Reading through the thread

his mom's experience seems to be common. I think for her, she found and was welcomed into the new church with open arms. What sane church is going to turn away a volunteer that only ask that you let her know what you need? She must of liked it ok since that is where she wanted to be buried and is. Its the men in her life that can't let it go. If the old people want to know why the churches are dying, they need to stop blaming the pastors, and start looking in the mirror. A long, hard look. Maybe that's why the younger churches are growing... no baggage.is something you need to beat into their heads and it is so true. You could always scare them, churches lose too many people they combine congregations and get rid of the church that can't support itself eventually.

Shoot, should I hire a zoo keeper and sneak out there on the truck with Ter so I can kick some butt for you? Or really scare them and have a KOEB meet up and all of us attend church one Sunday and kick some butt. :dilemma:

[RevCheesehead]

118. Either one would be great....

But if we do the KOEB thing, I'd have to insist that Sparky be there.
Just because. :loveya:

[CC]

120. Well I guess we could

kidnap him if we had too. Put him in the reefer with the mushrooms to get him out there if need be. :rofl:

[RevCheesehead]

122. You might get him more easily

if you put him in the reefer with some reefer. ;)

[CC]

124. We'll just trick him

since the trailer says Modern Mushrooms. Make him think they are the kind that as teens went into what they called "Jesus Juice" special mushroom, grain alcohol and grape juice.



edited to add, off to bed with me.:hug::loveya:

[Oeditpus Rex]

21. I wonder if they'd expect...

Console yourself with thoughts of comfy chairs and soft cushions, Rev. :hug:

[RevCheesehead]

31. NOBODY expects that, Rex!!

:rofl: I feel better already!!!

[merh]

28. I guess this is your moment when you walk into the temple

and find all those folks selling their goods. You just want to dump over the tables and chase them off, screaming at them, this is my Father's house. :hug:

Sweet Popey, don't you know that you can't make people "get it"? All you can do, is just what God does, offer the love, share the message and keep your arms open to welcome them in case they do finally "get it".

Hang in there, dear friend. You have not failed them, they have failed themselves. :hug: :loveya:

[RevCheesehead]

33. You are such a comfort!!

(((((:hug:)))))

The hard part is having to love them, in spite of what they do. :(

Thanks, Divine Ms. M - you the bestest!! :hug::loveya:

[merh]

39. You can love the sinner

and hate the sin. :hug:

Just glad I can give a little comfort back to you, to try to pay you back for all that you have given to me.

You are the Chaplin of the Lounge and you have been such help and comfort to so many of us. :grouphug:

Remember, you are only human. What you offer is not from you, but from the Father. If they refuse to accept the gifts, then they have some serious issues. :freak:

I love you, Popey! :loveya:

[RevCheesehead]

43. thank you, most sincerely.

Love ya too, sister! :loveya::hug:

[SeattleGirl]

29. Rev, that's certainly a frustrating situation.

I have no solution for you, but I do have these: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:

[RevCheesehead]

34. I'll take 'em!

Thanks!!! :hug::hug::hug:

[SeattleGirl]

37. Any time, darlin' Rev

Any time. :hug: :hug:

[TheProphetess]

35. You tried your best to be inclusive and kind

Don't fret over those who need recognition to feel good about themselves. To me, religion and my relationship with God is personal - I don't need a certificate noting it.

You know that you are trying your best - that is all you can do.

By the way, my favorite quote from my pastor (Catholic) during our Easter Mass last year is, "we must learn to love, accept, and forgive ourselves so that we can love, accept, and forgive others." I say that to my students every once in awhile. Sounds like your members could use a little reminder about love, acceptance, and forgiveness. :)

Good luck with the (unnecessary) drama. :hug: :hug:

[RevCheesehead]

44. Thanks, Prophetess!

By the way, how are YOU doing? :hug:

[TheProphetess]

125. Not so bad - I'm up much earlier than usual today

My right calf muscle has decided that I shan't sleep any longer. It's aching (I'm sure I'm putting too much pressure on it b/c of babying the other (problem) leg). Oh well. It's me, some toast, and student emails (this begins finals week). OY!

I hope you're feeling the love by now. :hug:

[pitohui]

38. you haven't failed as a pastor

i've seen the same thing happen in freckin science fiction or rock collecting clubs

i do not know why but the politics of small local interests is the bitterest of all back-stabbing politics

[RevCheesehead]

47. Do people have such a low self-image?

Do they enjoy being petty? And why the hell aren't they using this energy for something positive??

You're right - it's everywhere. But it's a real shame when it happens in the Church, where we SHOULD know better. :(

[reyd reid reed]

46. Y'know...

You have NOT failed as pastor. It's the committee that's failed. And doesn't seem to care. You care and that concern shows. People might be pissed off right now, but they're not pissed off at you and the fact that they're telling you what they're feeling and what's going on shows me that you're making more of a difference than you think. They KNOW that you care.

We care, too.

:hug:

(And you'll give yourself a bump on the head if you don't get off of that wall...so quiddit).

:)

[RevCheesehead]

49. LOL!

No more head-banging, I promise! :)

Thanks so much, RRR. :hug:

[enigmatic]

48. I'm really sorry you have to go through this

Maybe a sermon about it would be a good idea; seeing your posts over time here I know you would hit all the right notes...

Good luck :)

[RevCheesehead]

50. Thanks, enigmatic.

Oddly enough, we have a Pastor-Parish Committee meeting Monday night. Just guess what will be at the top of my agenda? :)

[murielm99]

63. I served on a Pastor-Parish committee when my son was

being confirmed. That was eleven years ago.

It was such a terrible experience, that I would have stopped coming to church, if not for my family. They loved our church. My son was especially devout.

I will never serve on that committee again.

[Wapsie B]

51. If it's any consolation what you've experienced

happens in every Lutheran congregation I've ever known. Sadly I don't think this sort of thing is uncommon at all.

[RevCheesehead]

52. I suspect you're right, BWA.

I keep thinking about the church in Corinth, and how they hurt Paul so very deeply by their actions. Hmmmm.... I think I've found tonight's scripture reading!

[Wapsie B]

53. I think it's a power trip for those people you describe.

Unfortunately some of those who crave it the most are ill-equipped to handle it. Then everyone suffers.

[RevCheesehead]

54. It was a bad mistake.

I thought, "Let 'em go ahead and do what they want... it's just a simple celebration. How could they screw up?" O BOY, did I get the answer to that! :crazy:

[faithnotgreed]

58. ooops ... that did make lol though

sorry for what happened with what was supposed to be an honoring of committed people

thank you for trying so hard to live out what you think is right
that really is what the congregation/world needs

hope you have a lovely day somehow through it all
i know how churches can be - i havent experienced as much of the backstabbing control type people (though they are in there too) as much as the cheating spouses in the church or treasurer stealing the tithe money kind
so consider yourself lucky~
ha


best wishes rev
i appreciate your light

[DanCa]

55. My episcopal church is looking for a new pastor our you interested?

Rev Moon, yes thats the name of our interm Episcopal priest is leaving in six months. We are about thirty minutes from Twin Lakes wisconsin. Interested?

[RevCheesehead]

93. Dream on, babycakes.

I'd have to go back to school and learn episcopal polity and history. But thanks for the thought! :hug:

[Random_Australian]

59. 1) Nice rant 2)Completely correct rant

3) Since you are spontaneously creating nails, I suggest that you collect them and sell..... yeah O.K. so I am not bieng serious now but I thought you could use the cheering up.

Here's a joke: (No, not offensive to anyone as I can make out)

A Bhuddist walks up to a hotdog vendor and says "Make me one with everything" :)

;) :):):)

[RevCheesehead]

95. ,,,,,

:spray:

:rofl:

Thanks - I needed that! :7

[billyskank]

60. ...

:hug:

[RevCheesehead]

96. !!

:hug::loveya:

[In_The_Wind]

61. That. Really. Sucks. Rev.

[RevCheesehead]

97. thanks, Joani.

:hug:

[DainBramaged]

62. Jesus never said life would be simple or easy

My wish is that all of the roadblocks in your life be as mundane as a few teeth-rattling blue hairs getting pissy over not being given their perceived place in the local pecking order.

They will be washing feet not you, keep that in mind as they go up the chute (or down possibly). There was something else, oh yes, all things must pass, read that somewhere, can't quite remember.........:dilemma:

[hfojvt]

64. that's kinda funny

to think that I might be on my home church's list, having been a member now for about 28 years. At my first factory job, the factory gave jackets to all employees with 2 years of service. When they did this I had been there about 1 year and 51 weeks.

But the people who are left out seem a little too concerned about being recognized if something like that will make them stop going to church. Matthew 6:1 (Concordance man strikes again!!!) Make sure you include their names in the next newsletter.

[Thtwudbeme]

65. What a great time for a good Sermon on the loving Christian response

to people's feelings!

I hate it that "learning opportunities" for people have to be disguised in such icky ways (it's early--"icky" is the best I can do!")

But, this is a fabulous opportunity for you to write a kick ass sermon using LOTS of metaphor!

;)

I just wanna pass Latin!

[supernova]

66. The only recourse for this is to have another reception

at which you honor all the the long timers, cutoff be damned. Maybe make it next month so people can show up. Call it Founder's Day or something.

If they wanted to have a little part for that former lay minister, why didn't they just say so? That's incredibly stupid on the committee's part. What a crock!

I'm sorry you're having to deal with that. :hug: :hug: :hug:

Nothing like life's frustrations to mitigate grief, eh? :-)

[RevCheesehead]

99. I originally suggested that he come and PREACH.

Then the whole damned thing got out of control. I then suggested that he could do the whole service, and I could take that Sunday off (since it's the week after Easter). But then the damned committee was insistent that I hand out the certificates.

About that grief thing....
before the service began, I shut myself in my office, and cried out to my mom. It helped, knowing that she could really hear me this time. Sometimes in life, you just need your mommy. :)

:hug:

[RetroLounge]

67. failed as a pastor?

The hell you say...

You have not failed anyone. You are the Pope Cheesey! I am not even religious and you have ministered to me on several occasions and you have gotten thru much more than you realize. Heck, I'd become a methodist (whatever that is) just to listen to you.

and if that doesn't help, how about this?



:loveya:

RL

[RevCheesehead]

100. Oh, *swoon* !

:hug::loveya:

[Rabrrrrrr]

68. I thinnk you - personally - need to include everyone by name

during the celebration, whether they have a certificate or not, to make sure their names get called out at least. And then make them certificates on your own if you need to. And then make a poster or plaque or something with ALL of their names, not just the ones the bitch psycho included.

If the certificate lady gets pissed off and leaves the church because you did a run around, all the better.

And no, you haven't failed - look at it this way, Jesus himself - the big guy, the Lord and Savior of all things - has to say this, "I've been here for TWO THOUSAND YEARS and they just don't get it!"

[RevCheesehead]

101. Ain't that the friggin' truth?!

I did make a disclaimer (and told them it was a disclaimer), saying "not everyone who should be on this list is on the list. The record-keeping has not been accurate, and we apologize if we have left anyone off. Please let us know if you should be on our list."

I didn't look at the chair to catch her evil-eye. ;)

[Rabrrrrrr]

106. Ah, nicely done!

A perfect solution! You get to mend the hurt feelings, you get to ramrod the idiot bitch but in a very non-confrontational and face-saving way and let her know that the issue isn't over yet, and do it in a peaceful, pastoral way that makes it appear to the casual observer that all that happened was a simple error in recordkeeping.

Plus you've let the psycho bitch that her power is negligable, and you still have the upper hand.

:bravo:

[RevCheesehead]

109. Thank ya, darlin'!

Coming from you, that's quite a compliment. :)

I'm mulling over the idea of presenting my own certificates next week. Instead of parchment, they'll get Subway Gift Certificates, and an apology. I want to do this during church, to get the point across. Any thoughts?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

70. Church ladies - Arrghhh!

I've always found it ironic that some of the most un-Christian behavior can be found in churches. I used to be active in a couple of church choirs, and I couldn't believe the nastiness, in-fighting and backstabbing that went on, not just in the choir but in the other areas of church management. And it was almost always the volunteers (though I do remember a couple of batty secretaries and neurotic rectors). Reminded me more of junior high school than anything else -- the mean girls protecting the turf of their clique.

"I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ." -- Gandhi.

[RevCheesehead]

102. Yup.

[rug]

71. Catholics keep much better records.

[Strong Atheist]

72. Sorry about that. People can be mean sometimes.

:(

[Callalily]

73. It appears what could

have been a marvelous celebration has turned into hate and spite. So sorry to hear about your dilemma Rev. You truly are a good person, a good pastor, and an inspiration to all of us.

All members should be honored, after all, it's a community of faith, of love, not longevity.

These are the very reasons I do not attend church anymore (Catholic), the petty, bickering backstabbing of the most religious, most righteous. :sarcasm:

One can show by example, but I think it's against religious law to hit people of the backside of the head if they just don't get it.

[RevCheesehead]

103. Hit on the backside of the head??

Have you read "The Gospel of Biff"?? :rofl:

[WCGreen]

74. This is the kind of crap that drove me from my church......

[RedG1]

75. The church gossip Mildred,

self appointed monitor of the church's morals, kept sticking her nose into other people's business.

Several members did not approve of her extra curricular activities, but feared her enough to maintain their silence. She made a mistake, however, when she accused Henry, a new member, of being an alcoholic after she saw his old pickup truck parked in front of the town's only bar one afternoon.

She emphatically told Henry and several others that everyone seeing it there would know what he was doing.

Henry, a man of few words,stared at her for a moment and just turned and walked away.
He didn't explain, defend, or deny. He said nothing.

Later that evening, Henry quietly parked his pickup in front of Mildred's house...walked home...and left it there all night......

[RevCheesehead]

104. OMG!

:rofl:

[miss_american_pie]

76. Rev, that happens in every church I've ever been to

:hug: I bet you're a wonderful pastor, and they're darn lucky to have you.

[IsIt1984Yet]

77. But, in some regard, isn't it selfish to walk away from the church JUST

because they weren't publicly recognized?

I mean, I DO understand the frustration, but seriously, is the POINT to put them on a pedestal? Hasn't their loyalty to the church been proven through their decades of membership itself? Regardless of who publicly recognizes it? Shouldn't they be able to retain that loyalty without public acknowledgment?

I agree, it's wrong to be cliquish, but I don't know, it rings a little selfish to me that these people would walk away after 30+ years just because their names aren't included on some list...

[Dangerously Amused]

79. I don't think it's the FACT of being left off the list that bothers them.

I think it is the fact they they were intentionally excluded from a group receiving an honor, when they qualified just as much if not more for that same honor. I think it's the fact of their honesty as a church member being questioned when they say they qualify, but there is no standard "proof" for them as there is for others. I think it is the fact of being excluded and insulted by those who have a responsibility to inspire and protect them, that is really the problem.

There is more going on here than just a piece of paper.

[IsIt1984Yet]

82. Yes, I do see that point. But, I still contend that there's an element

of selfishness and un-Christianlike "pride" involved in their decision to not attend as a result of their being left off of this highly-esteemed list. It's a list of recognition, no more no less. If being left off of this list is the catalyst for turning their backs on a church that they've been loyal to for decades; that's selfish pride rearing its ugly head.

Don't get me wrong, I see the wrongs of the decision-makers, and I see the inclusiveness and "superiority" of organized religion as a whole - more than most, given my history. But, having been raised Christian, I see the selfish pride of a few as well. They should be encouraged to rise above the "superiority" of these jerks and remain true to themselves and the church.

[Dangerously Amused]

84. In a perfect world, you're right

...they "should" be able to rise above it all. But people come from such diverse life experience; some are more much sensitive to insults and bullying than others. They may have grown up in an abusive household, live in an abusive marriage, were never taught good coping skills, have poor self-esteem, have mental health issues/struggle with depression, whatever... they may feel that church is the one sanctuary where they can go and trust that they will be safe, respected, valued, not judged, and supported. If now they feel disrespected and insulted, it may well be hurtful enough to them to drive them away. Perhaps not away from THE church, but to another church where the members are (hopefuly) kinder.

What may be "selfish pride" for some people may simply be "self preservation" for others. I don't know their life experience, so I'm in no position to judge their motives.

[RevCheesehead]

107. There's an ongoing history with these committee members.

This isn't the first time they've hurt other people, or criticized them when they were volunteering their time and effort. The one woman's daughter is also the church custodian. People have been ragging on her for years because she doesn't do a good enough job. When I got here, I insisted that we raise her salary to the going rate ($10/hour, for 3 hours a week). They fought that, and raised her from $7.25 to $7.50 my first year. Last year, I got them to bump it to $8. And we'll keep bumping it until we're paying the same as everyone else gets.

The other woman volunteered to teach confirmation when the previous pastor refused to do it. She and her co-teacher were under constant scrutiny, were accused of messing up the church with their parties, and had people walk thru their classroom WHILE they were teaching. She has been here since she was born, and she is very close to leaving for good.

The underlying issue here is VALUE.
Everyone wants to be loved and appreciated. But when your best efforts are met with criticism and scorn, it gets old. Especially when one of your critics is the former pastor's wife. She SHOULD know better.

[RevCheesehead]

105. That isn't the reason.

It would be petty if they were ticked about being off the list. But when they called to say they were omitted, instead of an apology, they got excuses and attitude. And it's that ATTITUDE that's killing us off, one by one.

(the irony is that these people who were omitted are regular attenders. Most of the people on the list haven't darkened the door in years.)

[henslee]

78. You're the pastor? Flex your muscle.. I think there is a lesson in all

this. I think it can be turned into a sermon. BTW, when the NBA named the top 50 players of all time, it caused a very similar controversy and plenty of bad feelings. In your situation, it would have been smarter to just honor a different long standing member each week. That way, no one would have felt left out... they just would have thought they haven't had their turn yet.

[redwitch]

80. Aw Rev, don't take it personal!

I have two very good girlfriends that are also Revs. They too sometimes despair over the mean, petty, damned unChristian of them, self promoting, irritating and insulting, holier-than-thou biddys in their congregations. Not to mention the warmongers among BOTH sexes. They are working on developing tougher hides and they pray for strength.
They, like you, also have great senses of humor which is a true gift from God! :hug:

[RevCheesehead]

111. It does get discouraging at times.

But that's why Forgiveness is the #2 commandment, right behind Love. Or, better yet, forgiveness is implied in Christian love.

Damned Jesus. He makes it difficult. (but he's right)

[Dangerously Amused]

81. Rev, you've done everything you can.

Don't keep beating yourself up over someone else's mistake.



A wise woman I knew once said:

When they're little, you have to catch them before they fall.
When they're big, you have to let them fall, and then be there to pick them back up.



Perhaps they'll learn empathy, compassion and humility from the fall.

[RevCheesehead]

112. I hope you're right.

There's an awful lot of pride going on there. And pride comes from fear, and fear comes from lack of love. They are terrified of being criticized, but have no idea that their actions are causing the criticism. And when confronted, they deny it.

I'll let God figure that one out. :)

[WolverineDG]

85. Oh Rev

first a hug :hug: .

Well, shitfuckdamn. Sounds like you have a committee that sees your church as THEIR special club & they only permit others to participate. Only those they like will get recognized, everyone else be damned. But it's NOT their church, is it? :think:

I'm sure you could write a sermon aimed directly at their behavior, but unfortunately, they think they are perfect & so you must be talking about someone else. :banghead:

I say go ahead & do the "honor system" thing & honor everyone by name, even if you can't prove it. If Mrs. Snotty Bitch squawks about it "Oh, so&so has only been here for X # of years" ask her what business is it of hers to police what someone else said? (Here's where the log in the eye & Judge not lessons come in handy :evilgrin: )

For some reason, people like to hear their names called out & be recognized for what they've done. Yes, we're not supposed to want this, but dammit, it feels good to be recognized. If you want to give away gift certificates of whatever & need some $$ assistance, you've only got to say "hey, lounge." Ask & ye shall receive.

dg

[RevCheesehead]

113. Thanks, wolvie!

:hug:

You're right. It's God's church. O8)

[madrchsod]

86. sounds like a garrison keeler bit about the

churches in lake woebegone ( what what the correct spelling is)

[RevCheesehead]

114. I wish they were....

We could use "Our Lady of Perpetual Responsibility."

[saltpoint]

87. From afar, I'd say the failure was in the petty social politics of the

catty bunch of folks who are manipulating the event and definitely not in the emotionally mature and inclusive pastor.

(A quote by Sophie Tucker comes to mind... "I'm up to my ass in midgets!" ... and we infer ethical midgets here, not a slam on anybody's physical personality)

Print a Special Bulletin for all congregants' mailboxes there in your area, announcing a Spring Picnic at a local park to which ALL are invited, no matter their chronological age, their sexual preference, their height, and so forth. In springtime, blossoms of all colors flood the glen.

Have everyone bring their own lemonade plus a covered dish to share.

Invite a guest speaker of prominence if there's one in your area. Topic: "We're all in this together, etc."

No comment will be needed on the other event; let it speak for its own exclusional self.

[RevCheesehead]

115. "ethical midgets"

I love it! :thumbsup:

[saltpoint]

88. Ask these exclusional halfwits about using 32 or 33 as the age cut-off.

Jesus only lived about that long, right?

Thirty-three it is, then. Anybody over that chronological watermark, git off the bus!

[SOteric]

89. Paging Skittles; Skittles to the white courtesy phone...

Line 'em up, Rev. Skittle's will be there to kick their collective asses shortly.

Don't worry, we can have her read a bible verse about wrath or something while she's kicking.

[RevCheesehead]

116. "St. Skittles of the Ass-Kicking"

I'd go to THAT church, any day!! :rofl:

[LynzM]

90. I'm so sorry, Rev

I don't think you're a failure; I just think some people are assholes. Sorry to be quite so blunt about it, but in every church I've ever attended, there were people like that. They take Jesus' lessons right out of Christianity, and it's really sad. I'm sorry it's happening in a way that is hurting so many people in your community. At my mom's church, it happened about who would get to make squares for the memorial quilt, and in which room it would hang, of all things. :hug: Love and hugs to you; it is not your fault. Somewhere Jesus is crying, but somewhere else he's smiling seeing the good works you do. :)

[RevCheesehead]

121. I like straight-talking people.

Assholes. Such a perfect word. :)

[crispini]

94. Wow. Rev, just wow.

That's incredible. My sympathies... it seems that some people really just do not get it....

To you, who DOES get it. :toast:

[RevCheesehead]

117. I've been meaning to borrow your cuffs and whips.

:hi:

[Individualist]

98. That sounds like the congregation

of the Methodist Church I no longer attend. People like that will never get it, but it's NOT your failure; it's theirs.

[RevCheesehead]

119. I hear comments like that far too often.

And it makes the Adult Jesus cry, too. :(