I enjoy Frank Zappa's music and his genius, but...

[CanuckAmok]

I cannot for the life of me understand why he was so preoccupied with toilet humour.

I know there are lots of die-hard FZ fans on this board, so I expect to be flamed, but that's where I stand: Love the music, and am completely put-off by the lyrical content.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

1. He was sometimes extraordinary, but suffered from Prince Syndrome

Way too prolific, not enough quality control.

Enter Random Koolzip, guns blazing.

[Bozola]

2. I'm an extreme Zappa fan...

and I must agree. I find that I like only like 50-60% of a FZ on the average.

Seeing, however, that I have on the order of 30 of his albums, this does allow me to pick and choose the chaff from the gems and still have more original music than almost any other artist.

Of course, "Absolutely Free" is perfect.

[RandomKoolzip]

3. Ahem...

Thank you, Mr. Byron. And thank you, assembled guests. Most of all to the Days Inn on highway 230 for making this seminar happen.

Our first Item of business is the so-called "Zappa Problem." What is this probelm you ask? Well, apparently one Frank Vincent Zappa was a prolific 20th century composer whose very prolific output has given succour and laughter to so many disaffected young people. He also had a problem curbing his instict to pillory his audience.

Basically, Zappa's position was to be the turd in the punchbowl at all times. If you wanted guitar solos, he'd give you scatological humor. If you wanted scatological humor, he'd give you political commentary. If you wanted political commentary, he'd give you doo-wop harmony. If you wanted doo-wop harmony, he'd give you atonal compositions. If you wanted atonal compositions, he'd give you more scatological humor. What it all boiled down to as a desire to keep his audience on its toes, to never let his fans enter a comfort zone. In this, he was nearly alone.

I believe Frank's obsession with grossness stemmed from his admiration of Lenny Bruce, who was one his biggest influences. Also, As Frank considered himself a satirist, he viewed EVERYTHING as fair game to be made fun of, including most people's sensibilities about sex and bodily functions. As if he was conducting a test, he wanted to see how far he could take his audience before they left him. Those who were left would often be rewarded with something like "Watermelon in EAster Hay" or "Peaches En REgalia," beautiful pieces of instrumental music. Such willful perversity was his modus operandi. And it was tremendously ballsy in its day. Let us not forget that toilet humor was not mainstream in the 60's and seventies; We didn't have Howard Stern or the Farrelly Brothers or any of those guys yet.

And if Frank hooked a young kid who wanted to hear naughty words, he'd give 'em some compostional brilliance to expand his brain a bit, to shake him out of his normal mode of thinking.

Secretary, please read thr minutes from this meeting...

Any questions? Please refer to Ben Watson's "negative Dialectics of Poodle Play," a Marxist/Freudian interpretation of Frank's music and persona. It's a thrilling read.

[Rabrrrrrr]

4. Perfectly said!

Thank you.

And I don't think Zappa has very much so-called "toilet humour" to begin with, so didn't even understand the point of this thread.

[Bozola]

5. Ain't dadaism great.

[thebigidea]

6. I was about to say something, but that about covers it

Hi-Keeba!

[RandomKoolzip]

12. Huzzah!

"Accursed Mountebank!"

[CanuckAmok]

7. That is a good response.

However, I still don't like much of the lyrics I've heard.

And I do think it's sad that, say 100 years from now, when his music is studied alongside that of Stravinsky and Beethoven, the base nature of the content will likely diminish the overall genius of the work.

On the other hand, perhaps future musical intellectuals will embrace the lyrics as a refreshingly candid observation of Western life in the last half of the Twentieth Century.

I kind of hope not, though.

Although I'll be dead by then, so, ultimately, what do I care?

[RandomKoolzip]

10. I can totally undertand that...

I mean, I still have abit of a problem with "Jumbo Go Away," "Bobby Brown," and a couple of others. Then again, I have a problem with Radiohead. (sorry, I had to get it in there!)But seriously, if you want an in-depth investigaion of this subject, you gotta read the Watson book. He gets to the heart of the problem beautifully.

[markus]

19. Just dug out Jean Luc Ponty's Cantelope Island

and listened to the Zappa tracks, and didn't notice the lyrics at all.

Oh, wait, it's an exclusively instrumental recording.

Scholars will read the lyrics. Musicians will play the music, and I expect some of it for a very long time.

For a very long time, people thought Thelonius Monk was insane or a charletain. He is now considered one of the great jazz writers of the 20th century. His problem was his obscure musicality and not his socio-political commentary. But I think the important part of the analogy holds: if the music survies, it will because it should

And from reading this thread, I think most of us think it should and will.

[Myra]

26. Dang RandomKoolzip, you talk good.

I was composing a reply like "Zappa was so way kewl."
But I like your version better.

However, for the record:
Zappa was way kewl.
And actually a damn fine musician.
And a damn fine human.

I miss him and his relentless sanity and his incredible class
and intelligence.

[corarose]

8. Anytime I said the word TURD on stage I would get laughs

He liked to make people laugh.

[CaptainClark23]

9. When Toilet Humor is outlawed...

only Studebaker Hawk will have fun on the toilet?

[RandomKoolzip]

11. No, but he will have maple syrup on his thighs.

And that's worse!

Frank's testimony in front of the House during the PMRC hoo-hah is also great reading. He sounds like the most sensible man on the planet there.

[5thGenDemocrat]

25. And, soon, the booth (will be) filling with flies

I love this place. I thought I was the only one who'd listened to "Just Another Band from LA," like, two million times.
John
There's a Howard Johnson's -- Wanna eat some clams?

[geniph]

13. He still wrote the best critique of television since Harlan Ellison

to wit, I'm the Slime:

I am gross and perverted
I'm obsessed 'n deranged
I have existed for years
But very little had changed
I am the tool of the Government
And industry too
For I am destined to rule
And regulate you

I may be vile and pernicious
But you can't look away
I make you think I'm delicious
With the stuff that I say
I am the best you can get
Have you guessed me yet?
I am the slime oozin' out
From your TV set

You will obey me while I lead you
And eat the garbage that I feed you
Until the day that we don't need you
Don't got for help...no one will heed you
Your mind is totally controlled
It has been stuffed into my mold
And you will do as you are told
Until the rights to you are sold

That's right, folks..
Don't touch that dial

Well, I am the slime from your video
Oozin' along on your livin'room floor

I am the slime from your video
Can't stop the slime, people, lookit me go

[Rabrrrrrr]

14. And so wonderfully Frank-ish that he performed it on SNL

HA ha!! Talk about using The Man's resources to satirize The Man.

well done, Frank!

[RandomKoolzip]

15. He got bad reviews about that song...

When it first came out, because Frank was knon as the guy to go after sacred cows, like the Hippies' political apathy, feminism, etc. and here he was, attacking...TV. Y'know, just like Stan Freberg did. A lot of the counter culture press was disappointed that he'd goafter such an easy target.

But as Ben Watson points out, Zappa didn't just attack TV from the sidelines, he claimed that he himself was part ofthe Slime, that the slickness of the production on Overnite Sensation was part of the slime, etc. In effect, he claimed active participation in the dumbing down of culture like TV did, thus deepening the layers of complexity around his criticisms.

[bbernardini]

16. However, if you read the Watson book...

Be sure to check out Mike Keneally's article about the many errors in it. I imagine many of them might have been fixed in later printings, but you never know.

Mike knows his stuff, by the way, since he was in Zappa's last band. The article is somewhere on his website, www.keneally.com.

[RandomKoolzip]

17. Watson fixed/updated it

in the second printing, based soley on Kenneally's corrections. Kudos for pointing that out!

There were some odd errors in the first edition...Watson mishearing lyrics and stuff, but it got fixed after Kenneally made a stink. The first edition is pretty rare and might be orth some bucks someday because of that.

[thebigidea]

20. pretty rare, huh? Should I hold off on EBAYing, then?

it was almost cute sometimes when he got WAAAAY off track with his damn Adorno, but there's tons of great info in there. And his enthusiasm gets you interested in stuff you previously missed or weren't excited by.

[RandomKoolzip]

21. I dunno.

I haven't seen it on any book dealer sites or anything, and it wasn't exactly a hot seller in the first place. But among Zappaphiles, it might someday catch a good price, because it's a hardback, and contains outdated, incorrect info.

Ever tried reading Adorno? It's worse than doing dishes.

[thebigidea]

22. I try to forget my NYU period reading lists as much as possible

I did like all the Philip K Dick references...

[RandomKoolzip]

23. I tried reading "Minima Moralia" for shits and giggles

because Watson kept going on about Adorno. Got to page 50 and said fuck it....

I liked how Watson actually tried to read meaning into Frank's S&M references, as if there's something really profound about dressing in leather and whipping somebody. I finally found out why that book was so wacky: Watson is a schizophrenic and is one of the leaders of the "Mad Pride" movement in the UK...so I guess he was hearing things that weren't really there.

[thebigidea]

24. it is VERY schizoid... reminds me of Lyndon LaRouche in a way

I loved it. Well, not all of it - but lots of meaty pieces in there.

the biggest stretch of Watson's was his Phaedo thing. i loved Gail and Frank's response to that.

[KFC]

18. Ram it up your poop chute

Rammit, rammit, rammit...