How powerful is George Herbert Walker Bush?

[TennesseeWalker]

Just wondering....how powerful is the former President/Vice-President/CIA Director? I know that Nixon once described him as a mere "water carrier", but this man has been in the highest levels of our government for most of his life.

How does he stack up against others in the pantheon of power in this country? Rockefellers, Kennedys, Morgans, Carnegies....where does Poppy fall out? Is he a decision maker or a water carrier still?

[Parche]

1. CIA

Once CIA always CIA

[Fovea]

2. I think that he is one

of the most influencial men in the world, certainly within the top 100.

But I believe that he is also one of the top 10 in the sheer number of skeletons in closets.

The secrecy of Dubya's maladministration is not accidental, or trivial.

[deminflorida]

3. CIA...Spook...

That's it...once in the company always in the company. I believe that.
However I also believe the CIA grows and changes as well. Bush Jr. really has done alot to piss them off and trash them the last three years, so rest assured Pappy isn't as popular a guy as he once was.

[toddzilla]

4. i shudder to think of the things he has done

Or any CIA director in general. Anyone seriously involved in the carlyle group also gets the nod for someone not trifled with. That kind of power should never be in the hands of anyone or any private organization.

The CIA just needs to go away and be replaced by something that does what the CIA is supposed to to.. gather intelligence, not overthrow gov'ts and kill people at will for "national security"

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

5. Well, when he traveled to Russia, Putin put him up in a dacha

and met with him over two days.

Hmmmmm.

What are those two old spies up to, do you suppose?

[BigDaddyLove]

6. I think he's a decision maker, but not a decision.................

carrier-outer.....I think he makes suggestions to the bigger fish.

Money makes the real decsions; and Poppy, while quite wealthy, doesn't have the kind of real power that a Rockefeller or Mellon or Guggenheim would.....not to mention that I just can't believe anyone actually takes him seriously, or likes him.

[toddzilla]

7. you are very naieve to think that, sir.

any former director of the CIA is quite, quite powerful. more so than i think an ex-pres is, and he's both.

[BigDaddyLove]

9. Call me naieve or even naive,

but I still think that Big Money makes the Big Decisions and Bush ain't got the cash to play with the big boys.

If the CIA was so overwhelmingly powerful as you seem to be suggesting, then why did they (Tennet) take the blame so easily for everything regarding intelligence failure in the first few months of our latest war, and why isn't Novak dead yet?

[toddzilla]

12. call him tenet, or call him tennet

just because he fell on his sword in public, means nothing. it doesn't sound like you know much of anything about the CIA.

[BigDaddyLove]

13. Of course it means nothing..............

I mean afterall, Bush Sr. TOLD him to right? :eyes:

[toddzilla]

15. you misunderstand.

i'm not inferring that bush sr. told him to do anything, i'm just saying that because tenet took the blame for something means nothing as far as the power he wields.

[BigDaddyLove]

17. Not so much a misunderstanding,

as it is a disagreement, with regard to how much power he (or Bush) has. I understand and agree that the CIA is a very powerful entity, especially when it comes to overthrowing valid, democratically-elected governments the world over, or getting the right person killed at the right time. I just think that there are people in this world from whom the CIA get marching orders, and Bush Sr. in my opinion isn't up in that league.

There is a lot that Bush can do, I just think there are other people who aren't as visible who can (and do) do more.

[toddzilla]

23. sure there are more powerful people.

the original question was how powerful is he, which would indicate that you think he's not as powerful as he seems. money is certainly power, but all the money in the world is useless if you don't have anyone trustworthy to do your disgusting, genocidal, heartless dirty work for you. That's what the cia is for, defending economic interests the world over.

[BigDaddyLove]

33. How powerful does he seem to you?

He doesn't seem particularly powerful to me. Since no-one here knows how powerful Bush actually is, then it would seem to me that we are all advancing our opinions. Mine, is that while I'm sure he gets to call on Putin when he feels the need to talk, I don't think Bush Sr. is a real mover and shaker on the world stage. Unless you've got some information to the contrary that would make me see things differently, aside from stating how powerful he is, then I'll continue to believe what I believe.

Incidently, the CIA isn't 'for' defending economic interests the world over, they are an intelligence gathering arm of the American government....they just don't do that very well (or so it seems), and tend to moonlight in the Overthrowing Governments And Causing General Havoc Wherever Possible Business.

[toddzilla]

36. I wasn't saying what the official role of the CIA is..

Like many gov't institutions, the actual role of the CIA isn't what it's mandated to do. technically the CIA isn't supposed to DO anything other than gather intel. What it really does is protect economic interests throughout the world. Anytime a gov't tries to take back land or industry that belongs to its people, the CIA shows up and a mysterious coup is executed, handing back the economic assets to the companies and countries involved.

I'm not saying GHWB is some all-powerful entity or anything, i just think that he commands more power than is commonly thought. Look at his credentials and his involvement with the carlyle group, his meetings with the bin laden family. He really isn't in the public eye at all compared to clinton and carter, etc..

[DemoTex]

8. So powerful that he has a suite reserved in a special corner of Hell.

Oh yes, he does! In fact, he might just be the notorious proprietor of that infamous establishment. George H.W. Bu$h gets a first-class Concorde ticket to Hell just for his handling of the POW/MIA issue in Southeast Asia. Why do you think Ross Perot entered the 1992 race? It was to fuck G.H.W. Bu$h over a snubbing Perot got from then-VP Bu$h on Reagan's POW/MIA Task Force in the early 1980s. Why didn't CIA-man Bu$h not want a rigorous investigation into Laos POW/MIAs? It might stumble on what everybody knew anyway: the CIA/Air America/BFEE heroin and opium connection.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

10. Ding, Ding, DING.... we have a winner here folks!

Being a small cog in the herion war myself, I can imagine the horrible things done at higer levels based on what we did at lower levels.
Don't forget that CIA was behind the rise of crack and bringing in coke during the 80's too. While at the same time we spent a fortune trying to stop the competition, but not the CIA.
And is it any coincidence that now we are running full tilt boogie in Afghanistan, the price of herion in the US has dropped by 200%?

And where exactly was GHWB on 11/22/1963? And when did he really start working for the agency?

[DemoTex]

19. And when did he really start working for the agency?

Certainly before the "Bay of Pigs" fiasco. "When" is a good question. Maybe it comes with "Skull & Bones" initiation. Who knows?

And where exactly was GHWB on 11/22/1963? Good question. Certainly one of the mysteries of the day. All we know is who died that day: JFK, C.S. Lewis, Aldous Huxley, Officer Tippett, and a few others. Where, indeed, was GHW Bu$h. And, for that matter, his buddies James Baker and Robert Mosbacher. They were "there for him" as bagmen for Nixon. CIA bagmen.

[leftofthedial]

11. well, he could kick YOUR ass

if he wanted to.

He and his husband Barbara's litter of mongrels are water carriers for the foreign likes of the families you mentioned.

[BiggJawn]

18. No, he'd HAVE your ass kicked.

JFK was the last time he had his hand on the trigger...Well, maybe MLK, too...

[DemoTex]

20. Hump- huraff-ha-ha-grumpfh ... Bwaa-haaa-haa-haaa!

...his husband Barbara ... Too fucking funny for words! Nail on the head leftofthedial!

[leftofthedial]

22. well, I calls em likes I sees em

and what a vile, nasty, evil creature Babs is too.

[DemoTex]

24. I'll elevate that to the -est.

"Babs" (makes my spine shiver to call it that) is the vilest, nastiest, foulest creature to ever haunt Houston!

[BringEmOn]

35. Ma Bush

[amandae]

14. Who?

Denial is a wonderful state ;-)

[guitar man]

16. He knows where the bodies are buried

While he might not have the extreme wealth often associated with extreme power,as the former head of the CIA,I bet he has a little lockbox full of interesting "tidbits" about a lot of people. I would bet he can still yank quite a few strings on the strength of the information he is holding.

[chefgirl]

37. Exactly the point I was going to make GTRMAN

He doesnt need the money of the Rockefellers,etc.....he's got plenty of other 'currency' to throw around.
His hand has been in just about every dirty deal this country has done since way back when he was just a 'water carrier'.
To me, THAT is the single biggest reason his idiot son is so dangerous to our system of government. If the little schmuck was just any other republican with an evil agenda, (I know, that was redundant)we could just give him enough rope to hang himself and feel certain that the American people would figure it out eventually and get rid of his stupid ass. Poppys influence, however got him into the WH in the first place and you can bet it will be what keeps him there too. He wasnt the director of the CIA for nothing. I guarantee hes got lots and lots of leverage in the Repub party. I also believe its the biggest reason why this family espouses the idea of political loyalty so strenuously. It's code speak to other repubs.....dont fuck with Poppy or his demon spawn.
I fully believe thats exactly why this (mis)administration is so blatantly hard right. They KNOW they dont have a thing to worry about.
My fervent hope is that the American people WILL eventually get a grip on what the Bush's are really all about, but I fear that the lie is just too big. To even consider it realistically makes a person feel like a conspiracy theorist. The scary thing, though, is that it isnt just theory.

God help us, and save us from this evil family.

-chef-

[MrSlayer]

21. As powerful as the President of the United States.

Mainly because it's his crew running the show, Dubya is just a puppet and the frontman.

[Myra]

25. If he makes you an offer, you can't refuse it.

That's how powerful that bastard is.

[DemoTex]

27. I refused an "offer" from a Bu$h operative about 25 years ago.

He was Prince Kamyar Pahlavi, nephew of the Shah. He was (and might still be) in Houston, Texas. He was a Bu$h buddy - big time.

Anyway, the offer was to rig an article I was doing for a national aviation magazine. Others were in on the scam, including Jim Bath (Bu$h AWOL buddy from the guard) and the Jaffes of San Antonio (Morris Jaffe was looking on). We were in the back room of a bad place in San Antonio. Doug Jaffe came in, Pahlavi came in, and a few San Antonio Democrats even came in. It was a bizzare smoked-filled room event.

By the end of the "event", a "friend" of Pahlavi's sidled up to me and said, and I quote, "if this article doesn't go well for ______, you will take a walk in the Brazos River in concrete cowboy boots." What saved my ass, I think, was a grasp at straws. I said, "Do you know Spook Stream?" They did. I did. Saved my ass.

(Spook Stream was married to country-western star Lynn Anderson. We knew them way back when. My wife and Lynn became good pals. Ironic: My wife likes only classical music. Spook was/is an heir ... an Exxon/Mobile heir. Spooks dad was head of Standard Oil/NJ and all the offspring. They made millions on Vietnam.)

Texas. Fuck Texas.

[Myra]

32. Holy cow DemoTex. And that was 25 years ago?

The BFEE is the biggest crime family in history.

Thank you for sharing your experience.

If you're comfortable giving more details (if not I
understand), what did they want you to say/rig in the
article?

[cosmicdot]

26. "babs" shed light on the Bush Body Count w/Larry King

one doesn't criticize her cretins ... or ... you're dead ...

http://bushbodycount.com/

and, don't mess with that beautiful mind

and, re: the heroin trade in SE Asia (for one of the BFEE drug circuits) ... enter Colon Bowells into the current cabal maladministration ...

[corarose]

28. Powerful is the wrong choice of a word How about Dangerous?

.

[LiviaOlivia]

29. Why is this thread in the Lounge?

EOM

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

30. Umm, cause if it were in GD, we would not be reading it

because it would have 155 responses, all deleted.

[toddzilla]

31. LOL

[LiviaOlivia]

34. I don't think so WJMS

They probably don't have enough hate to post to this subject. Too young maybe? The man is truly vile including his wife and offspring.

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