How we will break the culture of rule breaking and incivility on DU.

[Skinner]

Most of the members of this message board have no difficulty treating other people with respect, and participating in a positive manner. For that, I am grateful. Unfortunately, there is a small minority of members who either cannot control themselves, or have chosen not to control themselves. These rude people make Democratic Underground unpleasant for the rest of us, and have shown little inclination to change their behavior, despite repeated pleas from the administrators, the moderators, and the members of this website.

We believe that Democratic Underground has enough rules, and we will not noticeably improve DU by creating more rules. Our problem is that we have a small minority of people who refuse to take responsibility for their own actions, because they have no real incentive to do so. There has been no accountability and there have been no consequences for disruption. Until today.

Today we are unveiling a new enforcement system, which will help encourage all of our members to be productive members of our community. We are confident that it will provide a real incentive for all of our members to learn and follow the rules. We call it the Moderator Messaging system.

Here’s the great thing: If you are part of the vast majority of members who follows the rules and treats other people with respect, you will rarely, if ever, have any problems with the system. In fact, you can probably stop reading this post right here. But if you are part of the small minority of people who repeatedly cause problems, your DU experience is going to change a little bit. Here’s how it works:

When a moderator deletes one of your posts, you are sent an automatic notification to let you know. (Note: you will not get notifications for harmless infractions like duplicate postings.) When you receive such a notification, you are temporarily unable to post. In order to continue posting, all you have to do is review the notification, acknowledge that you received it, and give us your word that you will follow the rules. If you do not wish to follow the rules, that is your choice, however, you will not regain your ability to post on the board.

The moderators can also send you messages using this system. When you receive such a message, you are unable to post until your review the message, acknowledge that you received it, and give us your word that you will follow the rules.

If you receive a notification in error, we have the ability to remove it from your record. Simply send an email to the administrators, with the text of the post, and we will review it. Please do not waste our time with rude messages, baseless accusations of moderator bias, or complaints about deleted posts that include obvious rule violations. If you do send us such message, we will add an additional warning to your record.

If you receive five notifications, you get an automatic 24-hour time-out, during which time you will be unable to post on the message board. You will also get automatic 24-hour time-outs at 10, 15, 20, and 25 notifications. When you get 30 notifications, you are automatically banned. If you have promised 30 times to follow the rules, but still continue break them, then we can reasonably conclude that you have no intention of keeping your word. You get a special tombstone to indicate that your account was shut off automatically because of your own behavior.

I fully expect to hear a great deal of complaining about this new system, which will try to paint me as unfair, biased, fascist, censorious, or Ashcroftian. These complaints will be loud and disruptive for a few days, but ultimately they are wrong. This system puts the power in your hands. If you are the type of person who tries to treat others with respect, and makes an effort to be civil, you will never have any serious problems with this system. Based on our analysis of deleted posts over the last six months, the vast majority of members would never even get one time-out. However, if you are the type of person who is intentionally rude, or if you scour the rules looking for loopholes which give you an excuse to be disruptive, then you put yourself at risk of being banned.

The power is in your hands. The only person responsible for your own behavior is you.

I look forward to participating on a more civil Democratic Underground.

Skinner
DU Admin

Important notice: We understand that this is a significant change for our members and for the moderators, and we realize that many of you will need some time to adjust. Because of this, we are starting off with a “learning period” that lasts until January 1, 2004. On that day, we will wipe everyone’s slate clean so you can start from zero again. However, please be aware that if you get a time-out during this learning period, you are stuck with it, and if you get automatically banned during this learning period, you will stay banned.

Also, there will likely be a number of technical glitches and bugs over the next couple days as we implement this system. Please be patient.

This is the second thread on this topic in the lounge. The first thread is here.

[Swede]

1. I've had a couple posts deleted in the past.

they were in some heated debates,and I won't worry about it too much. I've even had a post deleted when I hit the alert. But I like these new rules,niceness is better than evil.

[nini]

2. Disagreeing and being uncivil don't have to go hand in hand.

good new rules.. and plenty of chances to correct the tone of one's arguments.

thanks Skinner - maybe now I will wander back to the GD forum more often.

[rbnyc]

3. This sounds pretty good.

I'm probably one of the people who doesn't have much to worry about, HOWEVER, I know that I do tend to give what I get, and sometimes when I think someone has been disrespectful, I can be pretty mean. So I have something to learn here too.

Sorry you have to go through so much to address this problem. I appreciate it a lot.

[VOX]

4. Wish this weren't necessary. Unfortunately, it is.

And it sounds like a good system.

I have deliberately avoided GD at times when it's fast and furious over there -- even when I eagerly wanted to participate.

Consideration of other's feelings should remain foremost in our consciousness when posting. A spirited discussion is terrific, but it can be derailed quickly enough when the fur starts flying.

Thanks, Skinner.

[snooper2]

5. Well,

You could just kick 'em in the balls, but I guess that doesn't work in a virtual world. :)

[He loved Big Brother]

6. Nice but...

THIRTY chances?

Ah well. Still a great idea.:) Thanks DU admins.

[Bush loves Jiang]

11. I agree...

It seems it would be hard to make THAT many mistakes unless you're Dumbya.

[kclown]

7. I'm a serious user, and I'm not into fast & furious flaming,

and I appreciate the burden the moderators bear.  But I don't
think it's very useful to see "Message removed by
moderator", followed by "Click here to review the
rules".  If we can't see the post, how do we know that it
broke them?

Would it be possible to expand the hate mail feature to
include the banned posts?  Or, failing that, could they be
placed in a visible location called "Object
Lessons"?

I truly enjoy the hate mail, but it's one-sided.  I don't wish
to add to your burden, but couldn't you transfer the banned
posts to a view-only location?

[Skinner]

8. When we delete posts, the purpose is to be rid of them.

I don't think it would help to give them extra life by allowing everyone to read them.

[unblock]

9. how about a rolloff window?

in general, i think this is a great idea and i welcome the hope-for improvements in quality of discussion.

just a minor tweak, 'cause that's what i do ....

30 posts is more than generous, but in principal, skinner (har har), 30 rule violations in 100 posts is quite different from 30 rule violations in 10,000 posts.

i imagine someone like will pitt might become an unintentional casualty of this rule, as he posts a ton and on rare occassions probably runs afoul of a rule or two, inadvertantly or in the heat of an argument. same could probably be said for me or anyone. in the context of his works, it would of course be a tragedy to ban him.

all i'm think is that maybe '30 posts' shouldn't be the cutoff, but rather '20 posts in the last 12 months' or '20 posts in the last 2000 posts' or some such. or perhaps, each incident-free month reduces your evil-post count by one.

or maybe offenders could take a defensive posting course :)


always trying to make sure the programmers have plenty of work to do :)

[flama]

10. Sounds fair to me

I volunteer on another website that adheres to a "three strikes and you're out" policy. The DU policy seems more supportive of the First Amendment and gives us more leverage to take leave of our senses every once in a while.

[Skittles]

12. I AM STILL HERE !

I............MUST NOT BE AS BADASS AS I THINK. :evilgrin:

[Don_G]

13. If I Can't Respond To A Mod

To explain my view considering my past posts, then I might as well join up at the "Free Republic" and direct my contributions elsewhere.

I understand "glitches"; I don't contribute to an "Arena" when one non-contributing member can exile a supporter over a private PM outside of what I've expressed already.

...Or am I missing something here?

[Maine Mary]

14. Woohoo! Thanks!

I hope it'll will help. I'd love to visit more often but this problem (among a few other, mostly unrelated things) has kept me away. Thanks for your continued diligence in trying to keep this such a wonderful haven for those of us who happen to be left of center. :-)

[imax2268]

15. I had a post deleted...

and I never got a notice...but anyway...I don't care...I must have said something wrong or else it would still be there...

The lounge seems fine to me...I have been coming here a bit more often lately since the GD boards are getting to intense with the candidate infighting...

I think you guys are doing a great job mods...keep it up...

[Le Taz Hot]

16. Excellent!

It would be REALLY NICE if we could police ourselves, and most of us do. Unfortunately, there are a few troubled souls out there that can't seem to get a clue and the Admins/Mods have to play Board Police. Hell, I've had my share (3 in 2 years) of posts deleted and they were well deserved -- knew when I posted them they were going to be whacked, but 30? If someone can't get a clue by 30 they may need to seek professional help.