''They gave because they are Christian.''

[Lisa0825]

*sigh*

When I hear quotes like that, I (as a Christian) understand why religion turns off so many people.

There was a tragic crime in Houston this week. All members of a family of four were shot. The mother and one son died. Dad and the other son survived. Neighbors spoke of their faith. One lady said the father had an amazing peace that had to come from God. The son wasn't doing so well. I think she realized that would make it sound like he had less faith, so she backtracked and said it's just harder for him.

Then they cut to a male neighbor who said that they were good Christian people, and they gave to others. They gave because they are Christian. I have some atheist or agnostic friends, some Jewish friends, and a Muslim friend who are all very generous people. It offends me that so many Christians speak like being a Christian is what makes them good people. I think people are god because they have character and morals, and that doesn't necessitate having religion.

This was just on the news 5 minutes ago. Just wanted to vent.

[southerngirlwriter]

1. I know what you mean.

As a Christian myself, I run into the same thing. The most giving person I've ever met in my life is a Buddhist, not a Christian.

And so it goes....

[Sugarbleus]

6. Yep..

Southern..

I am a Christian also and I find my fellow "believers" quit stingy at times. If I find myself in a less than ideal situation, they say: we'll pray for you..............wooot! WHAT ABOUT A REAL HELPING HAND ALREADY??
The right wing christian movement is heading the WRONG WAY. They are not listening to the teachings of Christ AND they are backing up a march toward fascism as seen in Germany so many years ago. It is EXTEMELY DANGEROUS.
I've stopped meeting with these people; they are like sheep and some are VERY bombastic and misled..to the point of violence. I think the American church is APOSTATE.
All about $$$$$$ and supporting the likes of Heil Bush and stomping on the poor and the different among us. It's almost unstoppable. I wonder what they will be planning even if Dems win the WH in 2004...the conservatives won't go away just because we vote in a Dem. I don't feel safe here anymore.
HEADS UP ALL....

[southerngirlwriter]

10. I'm working on that here....

I am starting twice-a-week threads (Tuesday night and Friday night) in the Meeting Room, showing how and why Jesus is much more in favor of liberal ideals than conservative ones, using Scripture.

I missed Tuesday because my back was out and I was in major pain. Tonight's will be posted sometime in the next hour or two.

[Lisa0825]

12. Sugarbleus....

I would say of the very religious folks I know, 65% of them are Republican, and the rest liberal Democrat. The Republican ones are so because of abortion and wanting God back in schools and courts, all htings I am adamantly opposed to. Religious Left is a good site for a different point of view.

[Nomad559]

21. Barna surveys on evangelical Christians

http://www.datalounge.com/datalounge/news/record.html?record=20398

The American Family Association, a far right lobbying group in Washington, released results from a recent survey that shows mainstream Americans see evangelical Christians as one of the least likeable groups in the country.

Researchers from the Barna survey asked respondents how they felt about evangelicals, born-again Christians, ministers, and other groups of people in society. According to the survey, evangelicals came in tenth out of eleven, narrowly beating out prostitutes.



http://www.worthynews.com/news-features/christian-divorce-rate.html

The Barna Research Firm is defending a recent survey which found some disturbing statistics regarding born-again Christians and divorce. The survey found that born-again Christians were just as likely as non-believers to divorce.

In fact, the survey found that the divorce rate is higher for Christians when compared with non-believers.



http://headlines.agapepress.org/archive/12/afa/62002a.asp

A new survey shows that adults with no connection to the Christian faith have low opinions of evangelicals. The researcher who conducted the study believes that may be one reason why churches are not growing.

The Barna survey asked respondents how they felt about evangelicals, born-again Christians, ministers, and other types of people. According to the survey, evangelicals came in tenth out of eleven, trailing lesbians and lawyers but beating out prostitutes.



http://www.ptm.org/01PT/JanFeb/GAcommentary.htm

A friend of mine just returned from a conference reporting disturbing results from a new survey. North Americans were asked to name the type of individual they would least like to have as a next door neighbor. The most feared and least liked next door neighbor -- a serial killer, a drug dealer or a terrorist? Not according to this survey!

The number one, least liked and most feared potential next-door neighbor (imagine a drumroll here) -- a conservative Christian!



http://www.worldvision.org/worldvision/pr.nsf/stable/new_barna

A new survey shows that evangelicals less likely than other Americans to help children orphaned by AIDS.

The survey of more than 1,000 adults, sponsored by World Vision and conducted by the California-based Barna Research Group, found that 3 percent of evangelicals said they "definitely" would help children orphaned because of AIDS, compared with 5 percent of all respondents.



http://www.connectionmagazine.org/archives_old/archives/2000/oct2000/disturbing.htm

Americans have been called the most religious population on earth. But a new study shows that only a minority of adults strongly hold opinions that line up with scripture.

A recent Barna Research survey showed that 60% of all adults agree that the Bible is totally accurate in all it teaches. However, people's knowledge of the content actually taught in the Bible often falls short. For example, 53% of people believe the Bible teaches that God helps those who help themselves. Forty-one percent agreed that the Holy Spirit is not real, but a symbol of God's presence.

[Lisa0825]

11. southerngirlwriter.... two of my close friends are agnostic and atheist

and NO ONE could ever say they are bad people. Plus, having worked with a very multicultuar staff, I have known several Buddhists, Muslims, etc. I just don't like feeling like they are being disrespected.

edited to add: I'll look for your post in the meeting room! sounds interesting!:-)

[Ellen Forradalom]

2. In a similar vein..

Whenever a tornado strikes and someone is spared he tell the news, "Our house is the only one on the block left standing! It's a miracle! God protected us." I'm left wondering, "And God hates your neighbors?" It makes no sense to me.

[Lisa0825]

8. Yes, that always gets to me too... here's a variation on that....

I lived in Hawaii as a kid. We always heard lots of stories from folks who dealt with volcanic eruptions. You'd be amazed how many people credit Pele (not the soccer player) with sparing their homes.

Anyway... that kind of thing bothers me too. My friend's Godson is dying of cancer at age 13, and I just don't think that God is letting him die because he didn't have enough faith.

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lisa0825]

7. deleted

bc the one I replied to was deleted.

oops!

[xray s]

4. Don't be too harsh on them

They are leaning on their faith to try to get them through a terrible tragedy.

Maybe they are just pointing out that their slain neighbors really lived their faith, and were not hypocrites.

[Lisa0825]

5. I can understand that.... I just feel like it alienates people

of other faiths, or of none. Maybe it comes from being a transplant to the Bible belt. I never got used to the expressions of Christianity being responsible for any good fortune.

[xray s]

13. Yeah...Christianity has been twisted by many people.

I guess that is human nature. Good fortune isn't part of the deal. Anyone who thinks it is, is being vain.

[Lisa0825]

15. No lie... look at Job. Maybe Christians should value being UNFORTUNATE

if they want to prove being chosen by God!

[VLC98]

9. I wish more Christians were like you.

As an agnostic, on top of being British, I find it hard to fit in, here in America. I consider myself a good person, honest & generous;) but my good deeds are indeed filthy rags to most Christians. What a shame.

[Lisa0825]

14. Well, they aren't filthy rags to me, and lots of other people

I actually don't identify with many Christians around here, because they are so much more conservative (not just politically) than me. For instance, I believe in the universality of God; that God appears to each culture in the manner in which it could best understand. I have been told I am going to hell for that because Jesus is the only way. So, hang in there. We may have different beliefs about the world, but we both have things we are judged upon.

[VLC98]

17. Thanks Lisa.

I think the worst thing is the constant "in your face" aspect of religion here. Living in England religion was largely a private thing, but in the States it seems to be one of the first things people want to know about you. I really don't mind not fitting in, but I worry for my 10th grade daughter who has been told she's going to hell on numerous occasions. That is just plain rude to me, but her so-called Christian tormentors don't see any irony in it.

[xray s]

16. I am sorry to hear that

I think honesty and generousity should always be applauded and cherished.

Hey, I am an American Christian and I am having a hard time fitting in here too!

[VLC98]

18. Thank you!

You're very kind. I shall hang out in the lounge more often!

[petrock2004]

19. thank you all...

...so much for saying these things. i've struggled with, well, i guess "religious persecution" for most of my life. i'm not a christian at all, and i've just come across more than my share of "friends" who give me that whole "i'll pray for you" line. for a long time i couldn't help but feel sort of hostile to christians. but, a really great thing happened to me when i moved to college - i met my advisor (she's english, that probably helps) and she's like a true christian. she tries as hard as she can to be polite to people, she respects my beliefs and actually /discusses/ them with me, she even takes theology classes where she studies the old greek bible and stuff.

i'm getting married next year and i found that the unitarian universalist church is starting to appeal to me a lot. they're sorta weird, of course, but they have this whole philosophy of that universal god thing... not the "my god is better than your god" thing.

well sorry for the big long entry, i just wanted to say thank you thank you thank you for being the kind of people who understand that christianity is NOT about competing with everybody else!!!! THAT is what christianity is about. and even though i'm not "a christian," i enjoy *occasionally* reading the bible, and i do my best to be a good person. O8) so i'm not really worried about my eternal soul. i think jesus woulda liked hanging out with me :D

and i'm just getting the hang of this smileys thing so:
:yourock:

[eileen_d]

22. Hi petrock2004!

Welcome to DU! :bounce:

[petrock2004]

23. hehehe

:hi: thank you!! i've never had this much fun in my life!! :hi:

[Blade]

20. I'm a Christian...

and I give, not because I'm a Christian, but because I'm a compassionate person.