I'm Dreaming Of A White Trash Christmas

[arwalden]

Flash "music video" that takes a while to load... but it's very well done and quite humorous. (Even this Southern-boy thinks it's funny.)

http://www.toonedin.com/movies/WhiteTrashXmas.html

[Kamika]

1. hmm

Part of me want to acnowledge the humor in it.. but it's pretty racist.

[arwalden]

2. "White Trash" and "Redneck" is not a race... sorry.

It's a cultural and socioeconomic stereotypical label... but it's not "racist". I don't understand how this can be "racist".

-- Allen

[Kamika]

3. well the stereotypes etc

I dunno but I'm sure alot of ppl who lives in trailers aren't like in that video

[lazarus]

4. you're right

And those people aren't, by definition, white trash or rednecks.

[arwalden]

5. And Your Point Is.....?

I didn't see ANYTHING in the cartoon video that even came CLOSE to implying or suggesting that people who live in trailers are rednecks.

It did however show that THESE cartoon characters (the ones in the cartoon video and the ones in the song) were rednecks.

But... in the interest of being fair to you, it's possible that I missed something. What EXACTLY was it that your keen eye spotted that makes you feel this way? What am I missing?

-- Allen

[Kamika]

8. i seriously am too tired

sorry im not up for some lameo debate

[arwalden]

11. Sorry You're 'Too Tired', Kamika.

I guess it *is* pretty "lameo" after all. It's not really worth it, huh?

-- Allen

[DS1]

13. You don't even read the messages anyway

They take too long for your generation, remember?

[Bertha Venation]

19. curious

Why did you weigh in in the first place if you won't carry your objections out to their full explanation?

[Kamika]

21. It's pretty much like when I debate with a freeper

They mark words.. goes all technical etc etc..


It's like they would say "I hate all of them ppl praying to their false god"

Ill say "you cant say that all muslims are terrorists"

and the freeper would say.. "I didnt mention muslims did I ??"


when the debate opponent goes all technical i dont think its worth to waste my time.


take this for instance

"I didn't see ANYTHING in the cartoon video that even came CLOSE to implying or suggesting that people who live in trailers are rednecks."


Man I'd rather do the dishes here manually then waste my time debating that

[Bertha Venation]

24. "Man I'd rather do the dishes here manually then waste my time..."

Yet here you are. As I said: it's curious.

[arwalden]

27. What I'm Hearing

when you say "when the debate opponent goes all technical i dont think its worth to waste my time"

It sounds like you're saying that when someone challenges you and wants you to explain yourself... then you'll look for any excuse to walk away.

Indeed you DID express a concern in defense of people who live in trailers. Okay... so if you have a concern and if you're defending them... then there must be SOMETHING that caused that concern.

BUT---If that's not the case... if it didn't cause you concern... then why did you bother making that statement?

So... the problem doesn't appear to be that OPPONENT "goes all technical" --- the problem is that when someone makes a reasonable request that you defend your statements or to explain your concerns, you would rather walk away.

That's fine. I suppose there's no real harm in walking away from an argument (or debate) if you feel like you can't win it, or if you feel like you may have made a mistake.

It's not a crime to speak quickly without thinking about what you really wanted to say. But please don't find fault with someone who challenges you to actually STAND BEHIND what you say and who asks you to explain what you meant or what offended you so much.

-- Allen

[Kamika]

28. whatever dude

edited awaaaay

[arwalden]

32. Yes I Do "Buy" What I'm Saying... At Least I'll Defend My Words. You Wont.

When I challenged you to explain what you meant and to defend your statements, I was essentially asking you if you bought what YOU were saying. It's the same thing.

Do YOU buy what YOU'RE saying? Where is YOUR explanation? Where are YOUR answers to simple questions?

You prefer to make statements and to make implications and to make suggestions and THEN walk away whenever someone asks you to explain yourself.

Again... the fault is not mine for challenging you. It's not my fault for asking you to explain what you meant or for asking you to explain what specifically offended you.

Now if YOU really "BOUGHT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING", then you wouldn't run away when asked to explain or defend yourself.

But... as you say... "whatever". Do what you will. I can't stop you from walking away. (See? I can be dismissive too.)

-- Allen

[DS1]

31. in other words

when the debating gets tough, the tough do dishes

:crazy:

[ACK]

7. Bull it is racist -- at least the White Trash label

Hence the term "White" Trash.

Give me a break.

Even outside of the south I hear people begin to use the term white trash to refer to poor working class people with very little education.

[JVS]

9. You are correct

[arwalden]

12. Bigoted Is Not The Same Thing As Racist

You said it yourself... "to refer to poor working class people with very little education".

That sounds very specific to their socioeconomic and educational condition. That doesn't appear to be a slur against a race. When used disparagingly against that narrow group of folks, then indeed it can be elitist, judgmental, snobbish, mean and bigoted.

But RACIST? Give ME a break.

-- Allen

[JVS]

14. Substitute Black or Mexican for White in the phrase "White trash"

Does it seem racist at all?

[ACK]

16. Thanks JVS my point exactly...

kudos.

[Kamika]

17. Exactly what I'd have said

Or put in homosexual..

[arwalden]

22. Homosexuality is not a race.

But you knew that already.

-- Allen

[Bertha Venation]

23. "or put in homosexual"

Okay: I am a poor white trash homo. Happy now? I'm STILL not offended.

IMO "white trash" is not racist. Bigoted it may be, but that depends upon the spirit & intent of the one using the term, doesn't it?

As I frequently say to Freepers & Fundies: There's no Constitutional right not to be offended. If something offends you, ignore it.

[alwynsw]

38. Bravo, Bertha!

I'm WT and straight. Does that get me in trouble on North Halstead or in the Village? lol

Much ado about nothing. I say again: sticks and stones.

on edit: loved the video. I think my uncle is in it.

[smirkymonkey]

61. Well put! Geeez

people need to lighten up, after all this is the Lounge, not GD. In fact, I don't even consider the term "White Trash" to be classist, as I consider the bushes (all of them), the cheneys, the rummys, the rove, and all their kind to be some SERIOUS WHITE TRASH!! :7

[arwalden]

20. Well Then... Now You've BROADENED It Away From

the very narrow and specific low-economic and low-educational group.

Your comparison (or "substitution") is irrelavent. You substitue your racially-charged word in place of a word that's merely bigoted... then you ask if it seems racist.

Well DUH!~ Yes... of course YOUR racially-charged word seems racist.

Okay... does that make you happy? YOUR example is racist. There... I said it.

Now... back to the original argument. "White Trash" is bigoted and classist, but nothing else. And while you may personally find it to be just as offensive as a genuine racist term... the degree with which you find the phrase to be offensive does not actually MAKE IT a racist expression.

I'm not buying it. Sorry.

-- Allen

[JVS]

26. But the adjectives black and Mexican are not racially charged...

in and of themselves. Neither is white. It is when you add them to trash that they became racially charged. Adding them to trash indicates that it is not enough to disparage the people for being "trash", but that it is also necessary to bring their ethnicity into play.

[arwalden]

29. It's Bigoted. It's Not Racist. Period.

Your arguments don't hold water with me. I understand what you're saying... and I'm sure that you believe the point you're trying to make. Good for you.

I guess I'm just not sensitive enough to be like you. Clearly you're a better human being than I am.

-- Allen

[JVS]

30. NO. Period!

Sorry you are just wrong!

On edit: Thanks for teaching me this great rebuttal technique.

[Kamika]

33. lol

It's a superb debate technique.. especially republicans loves it.

debater1: bla bla bla argument bla bla bla argument#2 bla bla bla argument#3 blab bla bla link to argument#4

debater2: no! you are wrong!

[arwalden]

35. It Wasn't A Rebuttal "Technique". It Was A Statement Of Fact.

Bigotry is not the same thing as racism. Nothing you say or do will change this simple fact.

Clearly you're frustrated at your inability to convince me of that. I guess that would explain the sarcastic tone of your last message. I understand that you find bigotry as offensive as racism. But the two are not the same... they are very similar... but not the same. A racist is a bigot, but a bigot is not necessarily a racist.

Now... since we've obviously reached an impasse, I think this argument is over. Since the only way to determine the "winner" is by whomever has the last word... I'm giving that to you.

You may now have the last word, Champ.

-- Allen

[Kamika]

36. I WON!

take that!

I won the royal rumble

[JVS]

40. No I won!

:-)

[Kamika]

41. NO. Period!

Sorry you are just wrong!

I won!

[JVS]

42. Aaaaarrrrgggghhhh

But the invitation to have the last word was directed to me. How dare you usurp my prize?

[Kamika]

43. sorry

I clearly won the debate price with my secret weapon rebuttal technique (which I stole). nice try though!

[JVS]

45. Ok, I'm going to have to fight dirty...

that post contains the phrase "secret weapon retributal". This is an improper spelling of rebuttal, so you lose!

[Kamika]

46. NO. Period!

Sorry you are just wrong!

I ninja edited my post before your post.

Strike two!

[JVS]

48. I am always right!

I win!

[Kamika]

49. NO. Period!

Sorry you are just wrong!

[JVS]

50. Kung-fu editing technique

By answering this post you certify that JVS is the winner of the argument in a real and very legally binding way.

[Kamika]

52. ok

from now on just imagine I'm answering all your posts with

"No. Period! Sorry you are just wrong!"


I'm out for lunch

[JVS]

54. NO! PERIOD! YOU ARE WRONG!

[JVS]

51. You always have to have the last word, don't you?

I win.

[Kamika]

53. ok

I blame the male patriarch.. oh and society

[JVS]

55. Aha by taking the bait you proved me right, you do need the last word!

and by the way
NO! PERIOD! YOU ARE WRONG!

[JVS]

39. I'd like to thank the academy for the coveted Last Word prize and ....

all of the people who made it possible. Without you, none of this could have happened. I'd also like to thank the pioneers of this argument, such as arwalden who first introduced sarcastic tone to the argument. Without his bold innovation, we would have been left with the dry and boring spectacle of reasoned debate. I heartily recommend that we continue to support his ground-breaking work in the "go ahead and have the final word" method of ending a dispute.

I'd also like to thank Kamika who has been a great ally in this argument. I look forward to future projects where we can work together. The contributions of ACK also deserve mention.

And now it is with great pleasure that I end this argument by dedicating this award to the brave warriors of GD who do battle daily in order to hold either Dean or Clark in line, depending on whom they support. They are an inspiration to us all!

[DS1]

44. I think it's more about 'lifestyle' than educational level

I know some very smart people who have neon beer signs in their trailor windows, the parked car rotting in the back yard, the beaten flag blowing day and night, beer cans all over the place inside.

It's a stereotype more than anything racist.

[Kamika]

34. last time i checked "white" was a race

maybe it's just me

[alwynsw]

37. Maybe racist, definitely racist - I don't care

The PWT corner weighing in here. My wife and I grew up PWT. We then became MIWT. Now, in some folks book at least, we're RWT. My wife taught school until she retired. She worked her way through school with very little financial aid. Got a double masters at 22. She then became EWT. Me, I joined the military (AF Band) because my draft number was 2. I figured the band beat the hell out of Viet Nam. I never finished college, but did the entrepenurial thing. We "arrived" financially in 2002. I won't give amounts, but let's just say that we retired ver comfortably in our 40's. So we're now RWT.

The WT label bothers me not one whit. Sticks and stones.

For the uninitiated:
WT: White Trash
PWT: Poor White Trash
MIWT: Middle Income White Trash
RWT: Rich or Retired White Trash
EWT: Educated White Trash

[Bertha Venation]

18. hmmmmmmmm

:eyes: Honey, I come from a long and distinguished line of Poor White Trash, and I wasn't offended in the least. I thought it was stupid, but I wasn't offended. Nor am I offended by the label. :eyes:

[ACK]

47. So do I .. did not say I was offended ... just that it was racist

And it is.

[Bertha Venation]

60. Your opinion is valid. n/t

[demnan]

6. That was really funny!

I sent it to my West Virginia and Western Maryland friends and I'm sure they'll love it.

[RebelOne]

10. I can't get it to load. Stalls half way.

Guess only DSL or broadband users can load it. I can't afford those services 'cause I live in a trailer park in Georgia.

[supernova]

15. LOL!

I thought it was funny. :D

The thing that made it funny for me was the characters were singing about themselves. It's not someone else pointing out the (supposed) flaws in this group.

Having a sense of humor about oneself is a healthy thing.

[Blade]

25. Lmao! Hilarious video!

This one's for you, Allen. :toast: :beer:

[alwynsw]

56. Thanks for the link, Allen

This white trash DUer appresiates the laugh.

For all you other WT DUer's: I'M TRASHIER THAN YOU!

[Maddy McCall]

57. NOT racist, and this southern girl loved it.

I KNOW people like that. LOL!!!

It isn't racist. Its a cartoon, for crissake!

All--ALL--comedy, including sitcoms and cartoons, have an element of stereotype to them or they wouldn't be funny.

[Xithras]

58. Heck, I'm RELATED to people like that

I have an uncle who's concept of hunting consists of

1) Crack open a case of beer
2) Climb on top of the rusting car in the front yard.
3) Shoot anything that moves.

Since he lives about 20 minutes from Yosemite (in the Stanislaus National Forest), he usually drops a few deer a year this way (I don't think he's ever had a hunting permit either, but he claims that he doesn't need one since he's on his own land.

[smirkymonkey]

62. LOL!!

The visual is just hysterical! Did you ever see the South Park episode when Uncle Jimbo & Ned take the kids hunting?? "It's coming right for us!!"

Well, you had to be there! :7

[asteroid2003QQ47]

65. You'd probably enjoy Fred Eaglesmith, jchild.

He puts on one hell of a show!

White Trash
by Fred Eaglesmith

http://apgar.net/music/#wt

[kimchi]

59. I thought that was quite funny!

I think they used my brother and his girlfriend as models!

I especially like the line: "the Christmas tree is leaning RIGHT". Classic classism. This trailer park kid loved it; I give it two Milwaukee's Best up, with a JD shooter!

[alwynsw]

63. Who needs animation when we have JESCO WHITE?

www.dancingoutlaw.com

[cosmicdot]

64. respect my authoritah: no more humor or attempts at humor in the USA

emotion-less 'bots are the way to go ... we can't even write or produce TV shows without canned laughter to tell us what's funny and/or acceptable ... heck, I don't think we can even stand each other anymore ... we've become a boring, uncreative, sterile people - experts at building walls but not bridges ...

... yet, some wonder how the Brits come up with so many successful programmes ...

The Royle Family ... poor Onslow ... Mrs. Slocombe's cat ...