There's two things I'd like to ask you to do

[LincolnMcGrath]

before shutting down your computer today. First, go to this address:

http://www.workingforchange.com/activism/petition.cfm?itemid=16041&ms=dis007

Then, go here:

http://sendcoaltowalmart.com/sendcoal.htm

Thank you

[Bertha Venation]

1. Done & thanks. n/t

[LincolnMcGrath]

3. A million-plus Walmart workers Thank YOU

[Bertha Venation]

11. Lincoln, I know little

about labor unions. Most of what I know I got from "Norma Rae." I've heard a couple of reasonable & smart people say that Unions have outlived their necessity. What do you say to this? Thanks.

[LincolnMcGrath]

15. Anyone who would say Unions have outlived their necessity,

can not be described as reasonable OR smart! IMO

[Bertha Venation]

19. that's all you would say to such a person? n/t

[LincolnMcGrath]

24. If "unions have outlived their time" was all someone

brought to the table then yes, I wouldn`t go much further. It`s a laughable as the Hoffa-Mob thing. Mr Hoffa had/has a cleaner record than most members of the Bush Crime Family.

[terrya]

25. I get steamed when I hear that unions are "outdated" We have a LOT

to thank unions for. How about...the 40 hour work week? The end of child labor?

People DIED for these benefits that are taken for granted.

My Dad was a union man and I learned a lot from him.

[Love Bug]

27. Thank you!

My grandfather lost his job at Ford (during the Depression) for simply attending a union meeting.

Of course, there have been abuses, but if we compare the average worker's life before unions and after, it is easy to see the positive changes that have taken place. Anyone who wants to know what it was like before unions should take a trip to a factory (maybe the one that made your clothes or shoes!) in any third-world country and ask yourself if you would like to trade places with any of the workers there.

[LincolnMcGrath]

28. Didya send some coal?

[terrya]

29. And Henry Ford was lauded for the "generous" treatment of workers...

At the Ford plants because he paid his workers the "kingly" amount of $5 a day. That was, I beleive, the turn of the 20th century.

Wow, I'm sorry about what happened to your grandfather.

Union workers have always had a tough time throughout the decades. Yes, Love Bug, you're right...there have been abuses in unions (the Teamsters come immediately to mind on that score). But we, as Americans, are fundementally MUCH better off with the hard work and sacrifices of union members.

[LincolnMcGrath]

30. "Teamsters come immediately to mind"

Enlighten us all!

[terrya]

31. Well, Lincoln.

Let's just say that the Teamsters have dealt with some "unsavory" elements over the years.

Maybe that's generalizing a bit.

[LincolnMcGrath]

34. Maybe it`s pure right wing corporate spin.

Can you honestly say american business owners hands are any cleaner than union leaders?

[terrya]

35. No, God no.

I didn't want to make THAT inference.

Enron is a perfect example of what you brought up.

[LincolnMcGrath]

37. <<Clawz slowly retracting:looking around sheepishly>>

[terrya]

38. Oh, Lincoln, DON'T get that idea about me.

That I would compare Ken Lay with unions...

That's horrible beyond belief!

[LincolnMcGrath]

40. Just to make me feel better you should fly the Union avatar

for the rest of the day. That flag will still be there tommorow. lol :evilgrin:

[terrya]

41. Ok. That's a good idea! :-)

Done.

[LincolnMcGrath]

42. Uh Ahem

[terrya]

43. *cough, cough* :-) eom

[LincolnMcGrath]

44. ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding

:yourock:

[Bertha Venation]

45. Thanks, Terry.

Those are excellent points. They brought many benefits that even non-union workers now take for granted.

I like how you've honored your dad with your new av. :)

I'd still like to know, though, how specifically to answer "unions have outlived their necessity." My asking these questions does not make me ungrateful for what union members have accomplished; I wish to shed my ignorance. What do unions do today? Why are they so despised?

Maybe this is for another thread.

[LincolnMcGrath]

46. This book might be a good place to start

if you realy wish to shed your ignorance. Unions stand between you and total corporate tyranny. They also offer teachers legal defence. (FL) They provide the best training in all the construction trades. Union members have ins. paid by company more often than non union. I could go on all day.





http://www.thomhartmann.com/unequalprotection.shtml

[Bertha Venation]

54. thanks

I'll look for it.

[Whitacre D_WI]

47. Why unions have not outlived their necessity.

Look at the obvious cases of corporate misconduct: Enron, Wal-Mart, Tyson. Don't think for a second that many of the corporations would LOVE to go back to the days before unions, don't think for a second that many of them are not already trying to roll back the reforms of the past century.

It's today's unions (and the fear that non-union employees will get fed up and organize) that keep us from returning to the sweatshops, slave wages, and massacres of before.

[LincolnMcGrath]

49. Ladies and Gentlemen; My New Best Friend!

:yourock:

[Whitacre D_WI]

51. Thanks!

:toast:

[LincolnMcGrath]

52. Hello from a former WI resident

[Bertha Venation]

55. thanks n/t

[blondeatlast]

59. Or blue or white collar.

Unions are now more than ever.

[geniph]

60. Unions will have outlived their time

when companies are worker-owned. So long as managers have financial incentives to mistreat workers, they will, for the most part, attempt to do so whenever they can. The best thing the "little fish" can do to protect themselves against the predatory "big fish" is to school. Collective bargaining WORKS, that's why they've spent the last sixty years doing their damnedest to get rid of it.

If all company owners and managers were saints of altruism, then we would not need to collectivize. Until such time, so long as companies are run by people mostly interested in feathering their own nests, we need unions.

[grannylib]

2. Thank you, done, and passed on to others!

[LincolnMcGrath]

4. A million-plus Walmart workers Thank YOU

[GOPisEvil]

5. Done!

I sent the BIG lump of coal. :evilgrin:

[LincolnMcGrath]

7. I sent a jagged one!

[GOPFighter]

6. Done

*

[LincolnMcGrath]

8. A million-plus Walmart workers Thank YOU

[terrya]

9. I did both. A feel a whole lot better about myself. Thanks. eom

[LincolnMcGrath]

12. Did you send some coal?

[terrya]

14. Yep. A big jagged piece of goal. They don't deserve a "cute" one. eom

[LincolnMcGrath]

16. Tru Dat my IL brother!

[Bertha Venation]

20. big grin

:D

[terrya]

21. Thank YOU, Bertha! :-)

For listening...

[Bertha Venation]

53. anytime, bud

:hug:

[BeatleBoot]

10. Did it

And I passed the message on to non-DU'ers.

I refuse to shop at WalMart until they change their ways.

[LincolnMcGrath]

13. A million-plus Walmart workers Thank YOU

[Interrobang]

17. Done, and done.

I admit it's probably rather ineffectual, but anything that makes me smile on a day like today is worth it!

[LincolnMcGrath]

22. A million-plus Walmart workers Thank YOU

You never know!

[YNGW]

18. This could be a good thing

I've got an old coal-burning heater in my tool shed. I'll have to watch the sale papers after Christmas. Thanx everyone!

[LincolnMcGrath]

23. A million-plus Walmart workers Thank YOU

<<warming hands over your coal stove>>

[YNGW]

26. I didn't send anything

I just figure I can buy the coal when Wal-Mart bags it up.

[SammyWinstonJack]

32. Done and Done

Sent link to my Dad who was until he retired, a lifelong Union member and a Union Organizer.

[LincolnMcGrath]

36. A million-plus Walmart workers Thank YOU

Give your dad a hug from me!

[LynneSin]

33. I never shut down my computer

this could pose a problem

:cry:

[LincolnMcGrath]

39. Don`t make me come over there!

:evilgrin:

[Whitacre D_WI]

48. Done.

Thanks for the links, Lincoln.

[LincolnMcGrath]

50. You da man!

[JohnKleeb]

56. Sure

[LiviaOlivia]

57. Done

[blondeatlast]

58. I'm on WFCs mailing list, but I had never seen the other site until now.

Coal gladly sent!

Thanks.

[5thGenDemocrat]

61. Happy to sign and to send coal

I never shop at Wal-Mart anyhow. Neither do most of the folks I know here in Mid-Michigan. First, it's anti-union. Second, I understand it sells shitty stuff.
John
Not that I would know because I don't shop there.

[geniph]

62. A lump of coal, a bag of sticks, AND

a big ol' kick in the ass for Grinch Walton and his ilk!

[buddhamama]

63. Big lump of coal has been sent

i'm done with my X-Mas shopping and bought nothing at Wal-Mart.