Of names, neocons, and nazis

[JaySherman]

Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, Bauer, Weber, Krauthammer, Wohlstetter, Schlesinger, and my personal favorite: Max Boot (gotta love the name). I'm sure I've missed a few more.

What is it with all these neocons with German surnames? Did the 3rd Reich go underground after WWII and resurface as the neocons? Is the 4th Reich upon us?

:wtf:

[La_Serpiente]

1. Some other ones as well

Kristof, Perle, Sullivan, Lewis Libby, Abrams, Douglas Feith, John Bolton (<---- This guy is wacko), Robert Kagan, Michael Ledeen, Frank Gaffney Jr.

[JaySherman]

2. Yep. 4th Reich for sure.

Didn't think I'd left out that many. :wow:

[La_Serpiente]

13. I just wanted to make this clear

I posted the names because a lot of them don't sound German to me. I don't think it is wise to link these individual's ancestry as the reason of their ideology. that is the impression that I am getting by your post.

[JaySherman]

21. see my post below. nt

[spychoactive]

3. being of german ancestry:

let me tell you my fellow leftists, being of 100% german heritage and living in amish country in PA it is HARD to be proud of my geneology and not be labeled as a nazi or a racist or a fascist...proud, white, and german? that's almost illegal to some...it's hard, trust me...

apparently my genetic heritage is genocide and beer...

*sigh*

horses and buggies for all y'all!
brian speicher
aka: spike

[JaySherman]

6. Sorry. Meant no offense.

I wasn't being serious. I just find it sort of funny that all these guys spouting fascist ideology now have the same lineage as the last bunch who tried to take over the planet. I wasn't in any way implying that all Germans are fascists.

[JailBush]

4. Don't forget Henry Kissinger

And Ruckelshaus - is that a German name? William Ruckelshaus was appointed the first head of the Environmental Protection Administration by Richard Nixon. He's now a member of the Seattle Mafia.

I read an article recently that said one reason Germans are eating up 9/11 conspiracy theories is that it helps ease their guilt complex. Even younger Germans grew up with the stigma of being linked to Nazis, so they relish the prospect of Americans replacing their parents and grandparents as the new global evil.

[VOX]

17. Nixon's inner gang: Erlichmann, Haldeman and Klein...

I could be leaving out some players, but those come to mind immediately.

[leftofthedial]

5. Nazis II

Sons of the Reich


neoconservatism IS fascism.

[rudeboy666]

9. neo-cons

"neoconservatism IS fascism."

But wasn't this movement (NeoC) started by former leftist Jewish intellectuals?

[rudeboy666]

7. But aren't many of them Jewish?

[trigz]

8. Actually, Germans are probably the most anti-racist people you'll find

They have learned a lot from their past. Personally I have only good experiences with Germans, they really are nice people. And, of course, organised to the extreme, but hey.

It is a well known fact, however, that some of the top scientists from Nazi Germany were transported over to the US after the war and given work for the American authorities. I suppose we now see the result...

[spychoactive]

10. agreed!

and we also have a sense of humor, no need to tread on the proverbial eggshells 'round me!

ich bin ein americaner!
one love
spike

(i also think many of them are jewish)

we are closer to a fascist state now more than ever...i am so glad the DU is here, despite all the 'in-fighting' it gives me hope knowing you kids are here...the left has been fragmented for too long

[OldEurope]

11. No. Sorry, but: no.

As long as persons are attacked and sometimes killed for just looking like Turkish... I´m afraid there is racism here, and a lot of it.

[spychoactive]

12. my exposure to germans (as of late)

has been primarily in pennsylvania, are these things still happening?

is it just the turks? (brave and proud people imho)

happy holidaze
spike

[OldEurope]

14. It´s often Turks, and sometimes Africans.

And yes, it´s happening every now and then. The difference, of course, to the III.Reich is, that the state tries hard to prevent such things. And, ok, most people here do not agree with those NeoNazi assholes. But racism exists, and when you imprison 10 Neonazis, they´ll find ten others...

[La_Serpiente]

16. that's what I was thinking as well

n/t

[Kellanved]

18. Sad, but true.

I've seen some minor improvements (i.e. now the Alexanderplatz is full of Punks, not full of Skinheads), Nazi-Demonstrations need police protection etc.
On the other hand: The conservatives won the 1998 Hesse state Elections with a racist anti-immigration campaign (something that is not even in a state's jursidiction); the new (very restricitive) immigration law was criticized in unacceptable ways and ultimately blocked by a partizan supreme court decision. The various flaps of RW politicians against Islam, Immigration, Jews and Turks, which were publiciced a few weeks ago, weren't fun either.

These signs, to be found frequently in Berlin, are just a gesture. That the need for such a gesture is felt is telling. :

[La_Serpiente]

19. Wow, your from Europe right?

I thought that the those neo-nazis were extinct already.

My friend from the Netherlands supported the right-wing parties over there. He talked about the Muslims and how they were immigrating there. It was in a very demeaning tone, and I didn't like it one bit. He supported a new law there which only impacted Muslims in a negative way.

He supported the right-wing candidate for Prime Minister a few years ago. I forgot his name, but he was later assasinated.

[OldEurope]

20. Noone can really extinct the racists. They grow again.

You can only be careful and watch the beginnings. And try to educate the children to never forget the horror. But there are always some unteachable, in Germany, in Europe, in America, everywhere.
Beware of the stupid!

[grok]

15. Careful about your assumptions.

Half of those neocons you mention are Jewish or have Jewish roots. It is quite common to have a German,Yiddish or Russian sounding name among them. They seem to be quite comfortable with the rest of the neocons. Maybe not the paleocons.

One can make a fair argument about SOME connections with the Z* word. But nazism is a stretch. One just CAN'T forget 2/3rds of your own people were murdered in the holocaust. By the Nazis.

Interestingly, the jewish vote has been migrating to the Repug party. It USED to be about 80% Democratic. Just as the Arab vote is moving to the Democratic side. Seems to be happening in spurts and stalls. Nothing solid. Usually goverened by international events.

Grok

[JaySherman]

22. OK.

I just want to make this clear I meant it as nothing but a joke (hence the thread is in the Lounge). I in no way meant this as a generalization or a stereotype of Germans. My sincerest apologies to all those I offended.

I'd post this as an edit over the original post but the waiting period expired.

[La_Serpiente]

23. Next time, be more cautious in which words you use

[spychoactive]

24. methinks:

es macht nichts!

touchy subject and that sign is SCARY!

whatta woyld huh?

one love
schpike