dude, i just found out that neil young is the godfather of grunge

[datasuspect]

it said so in the reader's digest.

[Ptah]

1. .

Out of the blue
and into the black
They give you this,
but you pay for that
And once you're gone,
you can never come back
When you're out of the blue
and into the black.

[MrCoffee]

2. lmfao.

[dolo amber]

3. He also wears the puffy shirt and dries his hair in the microwave

[datasuspect]

4. he stole it from jerry seinfeld.

[Jamastiene]

5. Absolutely.

We love him. He was the first grunger. Wearing nothing fancy and making music that spoke out about issues. Yeah, the title fits. Long live Neil Young.

[av8rdave]

6. absolutely....I have more Neil in my collection than anyone/anything else

[idgiehkt]

8. it's that voice

it's got so much vulnerability in it...and the thing with grunge that was different was, at least on the male side, men talking about their pain...or just anything other than getting p*ssy and getting fucked up, which was all anyone was talking about up to that point. I think it's accurate, really. He has that tragic, solo figure thing going on like the leads in most of the grunge bands did. They didn't wear makeup or leather and they didn't used product in their hair, they just quit washing it...ah, the memories.

[Jamastiene]

9. I do miss them terribly.

Men with real feelings, real morals, and real compassion reigned during the grunge era. Now, there are a bunch of rapist rap/metal assholes who are sexist homophobic assholes, just like before grunge. I miss the grunge era. Those were the days, weren't they?

[datasuspect]

10. and they all tried to sound like eddie vedder

eyyyer yaahhhhr yakkka yakkkka uhhhhh huuuuuhhhh

pearl jam is important if only for the amount of derivative nonsense it spawned.

it was so bad back then i used to call all those bands, as a class, "stonetemplejam"

[idgiehkt]

11. LOL

stone temple jam

I think Eddie Vedder was brave as hell for singing about incest, on the male side. I can't think of another male singer who has broached that issue though I may be wrong. I really think that that happened, either to him or someone he knows (in the song "Alive", that everyone misinterprets badly). Honestly I believe it's his experience he was singing about, in which case his mother trumps Eminem for worst mom ever, because I know the other part of the song, about him not knowing who his real dad was until he was 12 or 13 really was his experience. I appreciate the amount of bravery it took for him to sing about. I want to say there has been another song about this recently (aside from something like 'Stacey's Mom'), but if there is I can't remember the name of it.

I had no use for Pearl Jam or Nirvana back in the day but man I love both of those bands now. I like "world wide suicide" too, I think they've proved they've still got something to say. With the childhood Eddie Vedder had and what he fought through I have nothing but admiration for him. For some reason I and my friends were just 'too cool' for these bands back then although we were all 'grunge' in every other way.

What bands do you like right now?

[datasuspect]

13. at this very moment

i am rocking the delfonics (although i grew up listening to soul music - WVON in chicago/herb kent the smooth gent).

but i really listen to lots of uncurrent shit, stuff that moves me, and right now it is deep soul cuts from the late 60s/early 70s.

lots of musicianship in those songs, good music, good singers (stay in my corner, by the dells, good example).

many soul musicians grew up in the church and were singing/playing gospel from really young ages.

i want to explore gospel music (from the african american church), but i honestly don't know where to start.

but i really couldn't stand pearl jam, nirvarna (as butthead pronounced it), or stone temple pilots.

"black hole sun" was a good song, actually well produced and very evocative. it didn't sound like static to me. i forgot who did that.

[idgiehkt]

15. I LOVE Black Hole Sun

That was Soundgarden...man I loved that song and then when I saw the video and saw what they were talking about (sick suburban America) I loved it even more.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LosEBFNTxWM&mode=related&search=
I can't find a video with decent resolution but I just felt like posting it.

One Gospel singer all the R&B singers today talk about all the time is Kim Burrell. There is some of her stuff on youtube but not much...so many of them talk about her as an influence. I'll have to check out the Dells and the Delfonics.

[datasuspect]

16. damn, now i'm gonna have to fire up shareaza

i've been trying to break my file sharing habit.

[WCGreen]

37. I gotta tell ya, I was working at a radio station when

smells like teen spirit splashed out all over the place...

It was really a lot of hype by music industry to try and get men to listen to the radio...

Truly, GAR was the same...

And the press loved Nirvana...

Look at all the crap they had to review and then all of a sudden a good, not great, rock band appears....

I mean, TLC, Roxette, Madonna, "Things that make you Ummmm" ....

That was pretty much popular radio back then...

[idgiehkt]

39. "try and get men to listen to the radio..."

do more women listen to it than men? I didn't know that. I hardly ever listen to it anymore anyway because I just download and listen to what I want. I don't know how radio is surviving anymore. I don't think artists have to be great, I think they just have to speak to that specific generation in a way that makes an impact. I mean, look at how respected the Beatles are, and they sucked.

[WCGreen]

40. Remember this is fifteen twenty years ago...

The biggest demo was women at work between the ages of 25-40....

And, that is what the advertisers wanted...

That is peak spending time for women...

It was a pretty dull time for music...

Eighties quirky pop and punk had both kind of worn out and so it was back to more middle of the road pop...

And there was no net to speak of back then...

It was al broadcast radio and the movement toward consolidation was just starting to pick up steam...

The FCC made a series of rulings that opened up the door for companies to own more than one radio station per market and to own TV, newspapers and radio...

Prior to then, it was not allowed...

[idgiehkt]

12. I think so

I miss all the women musicians from back then too, although some of them are behind the scenes in a major way like Linda Perry. It was really a kind of golden era for female musicians, and it was so nice to have so many alternative bands that were so creative and original. It's so weird how it just disappeared, I don't know what happened. I know that the rap influence coming into hardcore had something to do with it and it's like there was only room for one other element in hard music and when the rap/hip-hop vibe came in the emotional and female stuff just got squeezed out. So weird. I like alot of rap, especially Little Kim and Foxy Brown, but I don't really like it when the two genres mix together because it's just too hard with both of those energies going on. It's like the grunge/riot grrrl era was just a time when it wasn't boys vs. girls for a change. Then it regressed and now music is back to the same old boring push/pull over p*ssy that it always has been.

[datasuspect]

14. lisa loeb is majorly hot

and actually had some good music.

do you remember "poi dog pondering?"

that is some of that 90s prozac rock my gf at the time made me listen to. the new granola wave of the early 90s - world music fusion with peppy poppy rock licks.

i shudder to think i used to wear the birkenstocks she got me xmas 1992.

[idgiehkt]

17. lol

I have never owned a pair of Birkenstocks, mainly because I just couldn't see spending $80 for a pair of sandals with a fancy name stuck on them. I know alot of people who are still crazy about Lisa Loeb. I was into the harder chics back then like Babes in Toyland, Hole, L7, Lunachicks, Tribe 8, Seven Year Bitch, etc. I listened to a little riot grrrl from Bikini Kill but not much, alot of that was pretty interchangeable and those girls weren't the best musicians. "Poi Dog Pondering", doesn't ring a bell, but I am watching some now on youtube. Wow, it's kind of cool...

[datasuspect]

18. L7 rocks

i remember them.

[Jamastiene]

21. Aaah, aaah, Andre.

I still have that CD in my must have collection. I especially loved that one.

[idgiehkt]

23. Hungry for Stink

I love, love, love that song. Bricks are Heavy is my favorite, but Andre is one of their best, and the song they did on there about Shirley Muldowney is really cool too

just had to pull "Andre" up
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTJ3qDWbCWI

[Benfea]

42. I normally don't salivate over female musicians....

...but Lisa Loeb is indeed HOT.

I never really paid much attention to her, as I didn't care for her music, but I saw the show she and Dweezil had on Food Network, and I went all bug-eyed whenever she appeared on the screen.

She and Dweezil are no longer together. This either means Dweezil is devastated and contemplating suicide, or a complete idiot.

[Jamastiene]

19. I'm a big Courtney Love fan too.

I know a lot of people diss her, but he music is good. Linda Perry actually helped her on America's Sweetheart. That album rocks too. I just go ahead and get the music I know I will like nowadays. I don't feel the least bit compelled to "fit in." I always had that gut feeling that fitting in sometimes just wasn't the right thing to do for me. I would never have completely understood that I really WAS understanding all those punk rockers and grungers that I was listening to without them expressly saying that on several occasions. Kurt Cobain rose to hero status in my mind when he said he did not want homphobes, racists, sexists, or any of the other right wing drivel in his audiences. When he said that, he just shot up there next to many of my favorite first generation punk heroes. That isn't an easy thing for a younger musician to do with me.

On the punk/grunge scene, women are treated as equals. I can say that from personal experience. I played guitar in metal bands in the 80's and I was treated like a second class citizen because I wouldn't wear fishnets, tease my hair and coat it in hair spray for sex appeal. In punk bands, I was never asked to do that and when I mentioned that that had happened to me in the past, the punks/grungers said my guitar playing got me the gig, not the idea of selling records based on sex appeal or costumes. They also added that changing who I was to titillate some 12 year old boys would be a shame really, when my guitar playing added to the music like it did. The music matters to the grungers/punk rockers. I felt so honored to be among that bunch of musicians. They were so beyond that misogynistic crap. I was so thankful for them. Too bad this place where I live in real life is so fucked up that they couldn't stand living here and moved. I'd still be playing with them. I'd rather play music I love in a garage than play on stage and feel like a hooker for the wrong bunch of people anyday.

[datasuspect]

20. i can dig that

i was punk back in the early to mid 80s and there was much consciousness raising in the music especially during the first part of the reagan regime.

but i could never get into grunge.

[Jamastiene]

24. Grunge was the right thing at the right time

for the mainstream to pick up on. I tend to disagree with some others on the issue of punk going mainstream. And I saw grunge as just a mainstream version of punk rock. I just remember that for many of us who were lib/progressive in red states, back in the 80's we didn't have the internet or a DU to gather. We were all alone out here in nowhere land. Some of us got a taste of punk rock from the mainstream and delved deeper. I for one had to go 100 miles west to Charlotte to buy most of the punk rock music and memorabilia that I got back then. It was incredibly hard to find even then.

Grunge was the right thing at the right time to gather us all up so we could flip the collective proverbial bird to George Bush, father of the current son of a Bush. That's just how I see the whole debate when it comes to whether or not it was a good idea of channel punk/alternative into the grunge movement. It was partly good for us, and partly bad because the record companies, not the indy companies, but the standards screwed it up by letting too many whiny asses who were metal head misogynists just weeks before they signed on as a "grunge band" creep into it. That's what really killed grunge, IMHO. So, it was good and bad that it went mainstream that way. Good because it rounded all of us up who had been the downtrodden back in the Reagan/Bush era and felt cut off from others who felt the same way. Bad because it got corrupted by greedy assholes who couldn't see the difference between the good grungers (translated real grungers) and the fakers who had just jumped the metal ship to make it as "grunge rockers."

I personally prefer punk rock in its raw form. Unfortunately, that would not have worked in the mainstream back when grunge hit. Too bad the journalists portrayed only the nazi bonehead (msm called them skinheads, but they were not really) crap during the 80's. Real punk couldn't have rocked the world if good people who didn't know any better associated it with that boneheads. Imagine if you hadn't heard of punk rock until you saw the nazis on Geraldo? That was the deal with that. Punk wouldn't have sold when the political tides started shifting in the late 80's/early 90's. It was still being tied to nazis when really those were just hatemongers trying to steal music that was never about racial hatred to begin with. So many main-streamers (translated the newly majority who were tired of the same old same old right wing garbage) couldn't get a nice taste of real punk rock at the time. It's sad really that punk got that bad rap like that, but it did. People never knew about the original skinhead movement and worker's rights and all that. All they ever saw was the boneheads on Geraldo and the crap Morton Downey Jr. had on where he basically put punk rockers and metal heads in the same room and just blasted them all to hell. I hated him for that more than anything.

That's just my take on the whole thing from middle of nowhere America. We are few and far between but we dreamed of anything that would bust us out of the right wing garbage and the misogynistic metal crap. We got it through grunge. I personally preferred punk, but I was all too happy to have grunge for that reason. Remember when they pointed out that gen x elected Clinton? Well, I was part of that bunch. My first time getting to vote was 1988 and we didn't win. Kurt Cobain came along all relaxed and groovy except when he was talking politics and many people listened and took the cue that the time was right to make a move politically. I probably credit him with helping get rid of Bush the first too much, but in my mind, he played some role in it when he stood up and said something about the "slackers" quote by George the first.

[datasuspect]

25. what you said about communication schemes back then

blew me way back.

the punk culture was communicated through records, mix tapes, zines, and the "show" culture.

i lived near houston, in a backwater about 30 miles east, but close enough to receive the KPFT broadcasts of the "jack cheese" show at around 2 am.

he played all kinds of 70s punk, current (80s punk) new york dolls, hardcore, what have you. completely unedited too. being 15 and listening to songs with explicit language on the radio was kinda cool.

initially, a lot of it for me was the shock value, the weird value, and using my hair as a means of expression. and i had some weird 'dos back then.

but i eventually started picking up on the social commentary, started noticing the class structures in the culture, things like that.

[Jamastiene]

29. It really is a kind of music where

you either get it or you don't. I started out liking Blondie and going nuts about Deborah Harry. Later, I bought her book, Making Tracks: The Rise of Blondie, written with Chris Stein and Victor Bokris. I read that book from cover to cover and I was a changed person. I never looked at the world the same happy-go-lucky/I-don't-care-bout-anything way again. I got a compilation of songs from 1980 with some new wave music and one Ramones song, "Do You Remember Rock and Roll Radio." On first listen, I stood up with my eyes wide open. I simply had to have some more of these creatures called Ramones. I had to have all I could get my hands on. Then I saw Night Flight when they would show some whacked out shit from the underground in NY. It was a mixture of early rap and punk. Those two scenes were sort of intertwined up there back then by a few key people, Deborah Harry and Chris Stein being two of them. Then one night, Night Flight showed "Another State of Mind" the punkumentary. I fell in love with pure raw out and out punk. It just avalanched into an obsession from there for me. I was in love and never have fallen out of love with it. I am still as in love with that music and that movement today as I was then. It's not going away not matter what anyone says to me either.

I had my hair spiked, ala Sid Vicious, in my senior year in high school. Picture a girl in an extremely red state listening to punk rock and fighting with the station manager of a local school radio station to play as much of it as possible, then cutting her hair and using *gasp* *Vaseline hand lotion, not "acceptable" 80's hair gel* to spike it to hell and back. Then picture same said girl conning her mother and her aunt into taking her to see Joan Jett in concert on a school night in a bar and keeping her grades up despite the supposed hedonism.

Then imagine same girl fighting like cats and dogs with local yocals here in red state hell about Falwell and Robertson and how wrong they both were even back then. Then imagine same girl getting a guitar and refusing to go glam metal because she wanted to play punk even though local metal musicians said "Punk is dead" over and over again. Then imagine girl refusing to play with them at all for their anti-punk/anti-woman stance and retreating to play along to the Ramones in her bedroom for as many years as it took. That was me from 1983-1992. They still hate me around here for that. That's all right by me though. I was right. They had to give up their L.A. Looks, potatoes in the spandex pants, etc. I remained who I am. For that much, I am pleased with the outcome.

[datasuspect]

36. my first ramones show

in houston. in the club before they were playing all kinds of cool music over the p.a., even cut in a david bowie track called the "secret life of arabia" that i have never heard since played anywhere.

anyway, the ramones take the stage and the HPD stand shoulder to shoulder across the stage.

joey says something like: "man, fuck this shit, we ain't playing if they're blocking the stage."

the cops moved.

and houston back then was cowboy cop city.

[idgiehkt]

26. wow,

I've never thought about that music in a political sense much. Maybe that's why the industry is so sanitized now, as if they are trying to keep any and all musical influences from having an impact on popular culture by making sure there isn't much real music in the mainstream. I'm just really glad I was around for all that and didn't miss it.

[Jamastiene]

31. It was all so surreal at the time.

I was in a daze throughout much of the 90's. Having gone through some major hard stuff in the late 80's and early 90's, grunge was just my ticket to shove it back in the faces of the right wing jerks who made my life a living hell back then. It has gotten better since then. I think to a degree they fear punk rock and women who play guitar almost as much as they fear gay people. Just like the repugs to keep any good music from gathering any steam and booting them again. They know it was connected. If you look at the trends:

Vietnam:
hippy music protesting the war, popular
Late 70's:
mainstream, disco, underground but still there enough to make headlines, punk
80's:
Reagan/Bush, materialism, cocaine/superiority complex, shallowness, greed, undercurrent protesting it all but not getting press alternative
early 90's:
stale, something had to give
1992:
Bush the first calls generation x a bunch of sorry assed slackers, we got pissed
Kurt Cobain and grunge come along and says something back at him, we voted Clinton in to rid ourselves of all that bullshit Reagan/Bush crap
1994:
Cobain dies. Courtney gets slandered. Movement loses steam. Generation x splits into factions, one folds and gets really boring really quick and forgets, the other faction goes underground again and takes being unpopular and hated because that is what we do best.
1998:
the advent of the Lewinsky witch trials and the whole rap/metal anti-women music scene mixed with
1999:
11 rapes at Woodstock and a total backlash against grunge, punk and the Democratic Party in general. Even Democrats lamblasted each other and unfortunately the bleeding hasn't stopped. It's still happening. When are they going to figure it out?
2000:
I think we know what kind of blasphemy was fed to us like horse shit from then until now, don't we? More war, more shit music and more msm right wingers than we know what to do with.

Too bad I don't have that book I used to have. I lost it in the move unfortunately. It may be for the best that I no longer have it. It was about the CIA and MSM. Yes, there is a connection between MSM, music, and politics. That is all I can say at this point. If I still had that book, I'd quote it. It was an old army manual about psychological warfare that I found.

[idgiehkt]

33. I love that Timeline

thanks for posting that. I am still a 'sorry assed slacker', lol. It's endemic to my generation I think. I was just born this way, I don't have the materialism gene at all... Rapestock was a total nightmare and a slap in the face to alot of people, something so revered got totally corporatized somehow and really lost its soul. I don't know what happened but I remember listening to alot of Jane's Addiction back in the early 90's and they had such a profound influence and not all of it was positive. There was something somewhat negative about what Perry Farrell was trying to get across...I remember being haunted and feeling portrayed by "Ted, Just Admit It"... I really didn't understand what he was wanting to get across (assuming he even thought that deeply about it). Jane's Addiction brought some darkness in even though I really loved alot of their music.
Here's a snippet about that song from an interview:

Taken from an interview from late 1988 (on the Words and Music promo)...
Interviewer: "We've said before, 'Ted, Just Admit It...' is not about Ted Bundy the mass killer, but you did use..."
Perry: "It was just a coincidence. We found a piece of tape that had a voice on it and it just happened to be his voice too. Which is another real, real big coincidence. And then I found out that he was a killer so that really threw me."
Interviewer: "Now, the big line in that song is the repetition 'sex is violent, sex is violent.' Is that the way you feel?"
Perry: "Yeah. And love is like hate. It's kind of-- everything is relative. Don't you think?"
Interviewer: "Does every action have its reaction? Does every yin have its yang? Is that part of it?"
Perry: "Yeah, I would say so, but that's not really the angle of thought that I'm thinking of. I'm thinking that there's all these fine lines that separate things; let's say good and evil, right? And sex and violence have a very fine line that sometimes are crossed."
http://members.cox.net/g12241/songs/ted.html

Another thing that had a huge influence that isn't on that timeline is the rape/murder of Mia Zapata of The Gits. I know that, coupled with Cobain's suicide, took the wind out of alot of people's sails. It affected me because it was just such a damn senseless tragedy. It was kind of like there was a feeling of invicibility right alongside the riot grrrl thing that was going on and AIDS activism finally starting to make a difference, and then her death changed a lot of that sentiment
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/103842_zapata11ww.shtml
Plus it took them ten stinking years to catch the guy on account of they didn't run the stupid DNA for so long...just unreal.

[Jamastiene]

34. I'm a slacker too.

Yes, Mia Zappata was raped and murdered about that same time and Hole's bassist OD'ed too. I just did an overview. It would be interesting to do a history type book of as many of the events from that era as possible to document just how much happened back then. Most things since 2000 have been repetitive nonsense, just boring. Y aknow? :yawn:

[idgiehkt]

35. true that.

another thing that happened in 1992:



we were doomed, weren't we?

although I totally thought this rocked when she did it and I thought it was so fucking lame of people who were supposed to be cool to react the way they did at that concert. Baby boomers who were former hippies booing her because she dared to speak out against institutionalized abuse of children in the Catholic church, which she ended up being so fucking right on about it's not even funny. She's expecting her fourth child in December.

So true about since 2000. It's weird because it seems like hardly anybody OD's anymore. What is up with that? Not that that's a bad thing, it's just so weird...

[idgiehkt]

22. right on

I love Courtney. Her biggest mistake in life, acclaim wise, was marrying Kurt Cobain. 'Live Through This' was such a strong record but because of who she's married to she got "yoko-ized" so to speak, which I think is a bunch of shit. Every time I think about Courtney I think about what could have been. She has genius level intelligence and could have been the greatest female rock icon since Janis Joplin if not for getting mixed up with/dissed by the Nirvana fandom and if not for the drugs. She really could and should be up there with Debbie Harry as far as influence goes. Of course Kat Bjelland influenced alot of female musicians but she's never gotten credit for it because she didn't have Courtney's fame and her music isn't accessible for radio.

I agree on Kurt Cobain...I don't understand why that particular generation of male musicians just 'got it' so to speak, about dichotomies but then what the hell happened, because looking at the music scene now it's like none of that shit even happened and we've totally devolved. Strange.
I think that's kind of what he's talking about in "In Bloom" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wY3oEvaq71A . Grunge needed to happen after metal and it's really no surprise it did because it just got so ridiculous and extreme, in the Guns and Roses period, that it's no wonder the pendulum swung back in another direction. Your experience is so interesting and confirms what I've suspected as just a fan of music (with no musical talent). That's awesome you've been playing for so long. I hope that since so much music today is just so stinking bad that soon the pendulum is gonna swing back and we'll have an alternative renaissance like what began with R.E.M. in the eighties.

[Jamastiene]

27. "He's the one who likes all our pretty songs,

but he knows not what it means..." Yep, I think he's basically talking about that bunch that were just there for the ride and did not really care about women. I agree wholeheartedly with you on that one.

What would be cool right now would be a melding of the recent Kris Kristofferson song (that style) with hardcore punk rock. I'm talking about having a lot of male AND female musicians putting out a compilation of anti-Bush songs for us to buy. There are certainly enough of them out there. They are just not lumped together in some way that it can start to feel like a movement. It has to feel like a movement before people will jump into it and push it to the top. I think if that were to happen, it would affect votes positively again just like it did for the '92 presidential election. It has to be melded somehow into a movement. That's the key.

You are so right about how Courtney got "yoko-ized." She is a talented musician in her own right. So many people bought into the murder conspiracy theory too. That really got to me. It was bad enough that a generation lost our voice, but then to have the only living person who had the strength to carry it be ridiculed and treated like a suspect by the press and fans who bought into the conspiracy theory just killed it on the spot. It destroyed it. The writing was on the wall then for Bush to win in 2000, because so many lost hope. Hope and strong leaders were the key to our momentum to get a nice progressive movement in both music and politics back then. When Kurt died and all that rap/metal shit came along, I knew Bush would become president by hook or by crook. I knew it. I tried to warn people. Too bad DU didn't exist back then or I would have shouted it from a soapbox until someone started to understand it all. At that time though, I felt powerless to stop the tide from turning back to the right. I still have my own conspiracy theories about Kurt's death, but they do not involve Courtney as the villain. It might be best if I kept those to myself in the current political climate, if you know what I mean (NSA is watching).

[ghostsofgiants]

28. There are a lot of good female musicians around now.

Yeah Yeah Yeahs, Pretty Girls Make Graves, Sahara Hotnights, Horrorpops, Dresden Dolls, Metric, etc.

Lots of it around, you just have to know where to look. (Mind you none of this is grunge, haha.)

[idgiehkt]

30. thanks primate!

the 'Yeah Yeah Yeahs' I've heard, the others not yet, but I will definitely check them out. I don't even know what to call the female music movement that happened alongside grunge. Some was punk like Lunachicks and Tribe 8, L7 was one of the only ones that could be really considered grunge, and the others like Hole and Babes in Toyland were more about...i don't know what, telling the truth about female experience in this culture but there is no label to stick on it besides the label for the way they dressed which was called 'kinder-whore' which I think misses the point and gets it exactly backwards, it was the sexualized child that they were portraying in their music, and the label 'kinder-whore' is the antithesis of that. This was pre-riot grrrl and I get kind of pissed when that label is applied to the bands I liked. About the only one still around is Polly Jean Harvey, and she doesn't identify with any movement or even feminism but she's still making great music and still has a huge following and alot of critical acclaim for her writing and playing both.

[taterguy]

7. I thought grunge was a bastard child

OTOH, his guitar on the eight minute version of Almost Cut My Hair is quite grungy

[Richard Steele]

32. Here's some evidence that may support that claim:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=qIMttc0ciKU




















Or not......

[Rabrrrrrr]

38. He's what grunge would be if it didn't suck. Neil Young is as "grunge"

as one needs to be.

[Benfea]

41. I hope that was tongue in cheek.

I like Neil Young and all, but that description from Reader's Digest is laughable.