Songwriters: lyrics first or music first

[LittleClarkie]

I'm taking guitar lessons, and so far I'm getting the idea of how to use chord progressions and the notes in the chords to write melody.

But it still sounds like shit.

So is it better to also get words together so that you have something to base the rhythm on, or is there a better way?

Any helpful hints or resources on the web I could use would be gratefully accepted.

[johnnie]

1. Mostly music first

I'll play something either on guitar or piano and when I like a progression I will use just any words to form a melody. Some of the "any words" make sense and I go from there. Some times I will write it in my head and jot down notes. When i get to an instrument I play what I have in my gourd and on notes and see if it is worth fine tuning.

[LittleClarkie]

3. Maybe that's my problem. I'm trying to break down the music without

my guitar. But sometimes you can't pull it out, you know?

My guitar teacher suggested a chord progression like
1415 for the first four bars (phrase) and
1451 for the second phrase.

saying that the fifth chord is like a question at the end of the first phrase, and the 1 is like the answer at the end of the second phrase.

I either need to find time with the guitar, or find a small instrument to pluck out notes on. I've seriously thought about getting a toy keyboard from Toys r Us or somewhere. I know that sounds dumb, but then it wouldn't matter if I could pull out the guitar, and it would be portable.

[KatyMan]

4. I wouldn't stick to a forumula like that

sometimes just messing around with chords that you don't think will go together works well. A lot of times you still end up in the I IV V type progression without even noticing it, but shaking things up is good too.
There's no 'right' way to write a song, a lot of times they just happen (see Yesterday, Sir Paul). Relax and jam.

I always had a problem writing music to lyrics I've already written for some reason.

[LittleClarkie]

5. I'm new. It's a crawl before you can walk thing

I reckoned you had to know the rules before you could break them. But I'll try what you say anyway. Thanks!

[KatyMan]

9. you're right, cart before the horse

I'd also say learn songs you like (that sounds obvious!) by bands you like. When I was learning I was a big Rush fan (still am!), so I bought their 2 volume songbook and learned the chords to the songs I liked and played along. When I began to write my own songs, they sort of followed the types of progressions that Alex Lifeson would play, and of course, my songwriting got better the more guitarists/bands I 'incorporated' into my playing. I'm also self taught, and back in the 80s there weren't no internets tubes to download tabs and such, so when I was learning chords I would just make stuff up to practice changing from one to the other, so I kind of taught myself by writing pseudo-songs as chord practice.

Lennon/McCartney began writing songs trying to copy Buddy Holly, so a lot of their very old material has something of that sound, but of course, they moved on.

I also tell everyone that mentions they're learning to play the guitar to order The Guitar Handbook by Ralph Denyer. It's awesome. It goes into everything from how guitars are constructed, to brief essays on great guitarists, intro to music theory, playing different styles, alternate tunings, modulation...the works.

http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/0679742751.01._BO2,204,203,200_PIlitb-dp-500-arrow,TopRight,32,-59_AA240_SH20_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

http://www.amazon.com/-Guitar-Handbook/dp/0679742751/sr=8-1/qid=1157179560/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-5269415-6449457?ie=UTF8&s=books


(edited to add more stuff..!)

[StrongBad]

6. That's how I do it too.

The best melodies & progressions come spontaneously so when you start playing go by instinct and sing any jumbled melody that immediately comes to your head. Then clean it up later with proper lyrics. You'd be surprised at how much of the original stuff off the top of your head you'll keep.

[SteppingRazor]

2. Both at the same time separately...

I tend to write some music, write some poetry or whatnot separately, and then mix and match until I find music and words that fit well together

[musiclawyer]

7. focus on the chords or riff

and decide if what you are doing is really a verse or chorus instead. If it's a chorus, vocal melodic repetition is more acceptable. Once your music is doen cold, down the lyrics s will come contemporaneously or soon therafter if you keep working it. Writing music to words or poetry is really hard, at least for me, and a lot of writers I know.

[trackfan]

8. Either way; whatever works best for you.