Are some people weight snobs?

[hedgehog]

I was just looking at another thread discussing obesity and noticed that a few people insisted that all there is to weight control is eat less, exercise more. Looking at old photos, I was stunned to realize how slender I was 30 years ago, especially when I remember the things I used to eat. I'm over weight now and I've been working on losing that weight and believe me, it isn't easy. I have a daughter who some might label anorexic, and she eats like a horse. It seems to me that controlling weight is a lot more complex than most people realize. Still, too many of those of an "ideal" weight feel free to look down on those of us who are overweight or underweight. At this point, I'm starting to think that the medical Establishment is wildly ignorant on the entire subject.

[MissMillie]

1. Well, first of all anorexia is much more than just being thin

and second of all, you're right. To most of us losing weight IS a lot more than just eating less and exercising more. Different people have differnt metabolism and break down sugars and fats differently. Not to mention that many people self-medicate with food.

I've struggled w/ my weight all my life, and while I am overweight at present, I am now the smallest adult I have ever been and I am in the best shape of my life.

People need to work with their doctors, therapists, trainers and of course whatever support network they can find, and they have to remember that not everyone was meant to be a size 6. Sometimes your body wants to be where it wants to be and you have to accept that. We have evolved into creatures whose bodies do their damnest to maintain the status quo.

All I hope for people is for them to find their own comfort zone, and hopefully that it's a healthy one.

:hi:

[hedgehog]

2. I agree, anorexia is not the same as being thin.

The problem is that those who are thin get as much patronizing free advice as those of us who are fat. Somehow, if you aren't at society's ideal weight, you become an open target. I happen to know a girl who has a medical problem that leaves her very thin and I know people give her a hard time, telling her she just needs to eat more.


On a related topic, has anyone noticed how the ideal weight fluctuates from culture to culture. I'm reading a book about Mary Todd Lincoln that describes her as plump and having a weight problem, but the painting of her on the cover doesn't bear that out. Maybe she was a "normal" weight in a society that expected women to be shaped like children!

[MissMillie]

3. yeah, we're on the same page

I have a girlfriend who weight 90 lbs. soaking wet, and its not because she doesn't eat. She gets very fed up by the remarks she gets. I would venture to say that she gets MORE advice than overweight people. Where someone would hold back saying something to an overweight person for fear of being considered "rude", they have no such concern when the person they are talking to is underweight.

Marilyn Monroe was a size 12. Today, a size 12 is considered far too overweight for top movie roles.

[Left Is Write]

5. Remember, though...

A size 12 in the 1950s is not the same size as a 12 today.

Marilyn Monroe was certainly not as thin as many of the waifish women in Hollywood today, but she was slender (in fact, she was in the enviable position of being slender AND shapely).

I don't think there is anything wrong whatsoever in being a size 12, but it's inaccurate to compare today's size 12 with 50 years ago. 50 years ago, size 12 was "ideal."

[bertha katzenengel]

9. Big difference between M.M. and the famous today: Norma Jean had a waist.

[hedgehog]

13. Have you ever checked out historical clothing?

The dresses and especially the shoes worn in the 19th century wouldn't fit a child today.

[bertha katzenengel]

16. Nope. But no matter their size, women back then had waists.

And by MM's time, corsets were out of style.

The "ideal woman" sold by the fashion rags today are either science projects or ironing boards.

[Left Is Write]

20. Marilyn and the others probably wore a girdle or waist cincher...

I definitely don't have the right shape for many vintage dresses - they all seem to come with the ideal measurements of bust and hips being 10 inches larger than waist. I'm more the straight up and down type, but I do have some foundation garments that help me properly wear my 50s cocktail dresses. And wow! I love those dresses. :D

[calico1]

27. I can remember being a kid and my Mom's

girdles. My aunts also stayed with us sometimes and they too had girdles, and "long line" bras. All with those wire things in them. In fact, after my Mom died a few months ago, one of the things I brought back with me as a keepsake was a girdle of hers I remember her wearing a lot. It went from the bottom of the bra line down over the hips and has garters. The women back then definitely cinched and tightened themselves in before dressing.

[Writer]

35. But isn't that simply being at a "healthy" weight...

but not rubenesque like today? Certainly the definition of "thin" has become more extreme, but so has the other end of the spectrum. Why would doctor's speak up about obesity? I don't think they're aiming for all of us to look like Twiggy. I think they're simply concerned about being at a healthy weight - even if you're a size 12 or 14 :)

[Left Is Write]

44. In this subthread, we were only talking about the tendency ...

of today's women to be less hourglass-shaped than women of 50 years ago. Part of that is simply the fashion of the day, which, for many women, dictated the use of girdles, waist cinchers, and bullet bras.

Marilyn, on the other hand, was just plain shapely (though she, like her peers, probably wore girdles).

[distantearlywarning]

47. I have a bust and hips exactly 10" larger than my waist

And I can't fit into any of today's clothing! I think there was a thread about that somewhere a while back.

[Left Is Write]

49. Today's clothes aren't cut for the classic hourglass shape.

You'd probably be a knockout in some fabulous vintage items.

It must be frustrating, though.

[tjwmason]

43. Science project or ironing boards.

That is just too good :rofl:

And absolutely right as well.

Too much of the gay-scene has a similar approach with a bizarre "ideal" which looks about 14 and with the build of a t-shirt on a clothes-hanger. I don't think that these look particularly attractive, either the men or the women.

[Left Is Write]

50. No matter what I weigh...

I will never have that shapely hourglass figure. :(

[bertha katzenengel]

63. hey! i made you laugh!

hooray! :hi:

[calico1]

14. In Marilyn Monroe's day there did not

exist "vanity sizing" which is widely used today. Marilyn was 5'4" and her weight fluctuated mostly between 130-140 lbs. In today's sizes she'd probably be a 6 because that's what I wear and I am the same height as her and weight (when I lose these extra lbs!.) I have a closet full of mostly 6's. Also, sizes then were more standardized. A size 12 was a 12 no matter what line you were buying it from.

[Jamastiene]

4. I couldn't agree with you more.

For some people, the whole diet/exercise thing works beautifully, but for the majority other factors come into play. There are medicines that cause weight gain, there are medical issues that cause weight gain and then there are other issues on top of that. I simply cannot look at weight issues as merely a black and white issue. It's not that simple. If only it was.

[hedgehog]

7. I think what made me start this thread is that too many people

don't realize how lucky they are. Because they are the "ideal" weight, they pat themselves on the head for exercising and eating properly. I know people who exercise faithfully, have wonderful cholesterol numbers and a healthy blood pressure and watch every speck of food that goes into their mouths; yet these same people are 50 to 60 pounds overweight by every chart.

We don't know what the ideal weight is, especially given the multitude of body types out there. We don't know what people should be eating or if everyone should or can eat the same things. We certainly don't understand all the factors that determine a person's weight.

[blondeatlast]

26. Yes, some are, and I hope to hell I'm not one of them.

For reference, I must begin by saying I'm at my ideal weight and most would say I'm pretty well-proportioned.

I definitely realize how lucky I am. I know people who can simply seem to look at a Snickers and gain ten pounds. I can eat 2 and not gain an ounce. It's all metabolism, and some people like me have very fast metabolisms and others have slow ones.

I truly don't try, I'm just fortunate, and I know so many people who work exteremely hard and can't seem to shed the pounds.

I wish we could just concentrate the issue on getting lots of good exercise. My sisters are both overweight, but one exercises regularly and is demonstrably healthier than the one who doesn't.

As long as one makes an effort to stay healthy, they get my respect.

[Evoman]

6. There is nothing more to it than eating less, eating healthier, and

exercising. The whole thing is JUST THAT SIMPLE. Calories burned, calories consumed. Now, genetics play a large role..some of us have certain body types, and some of us will never have the body we want. I am an exomorph, I am tall, skinny, and have a fast metabolism. My body burns energy at a faster rate, thats why I'm skinny. I eat a lot, and I work out a lot...it has helped me, and I'm getting okay buff...but I will never look like a fitness model. If I dieted, I would quickly lose the muslce.

Before the people on meds get mad at me, let me state clearly...its still the same for you. Its still simple. Now, the problem may be that medicines play havoc with metabolism....and that makes it even harder to lose weight (or for some people, keep weight on because there are meds that cause loss of appetite and weight loss).

But it really is that simple. Not easy. Not particularly useful for some. But that simple Calories in, calories burned. Now, your endocrine system may make it so you can never be thin...and there isn't much that excercise will do for you, apart from keep you healthy. But the basic principles are the same...its physics, plain and simple.

On edit: I definitely don't mean to imply that everybody is capable of being a fitness model. Its not true. And some people will find it close to impossible to lose weight, while others just need to move an arm once and they lose 5 pounds.

[hedgehog]

10. Yet years ago we learned that a calorie is a calorie is a calorie

Now we know that proteins, fats and carbohydrates are all handled differently by the body. We know how important fiber is. We know that it makes a difference whether a fat is a mono- saturate, poly-saturate or just plain saturated. Hydrogenated vegetable oil is fast approaching the status of a metabolic poison. Five years ago all sugars were the same, now fructose is under the microscope.

[Evoman]

15. True.

A large part of it has to do with how the body metabolizes certain foods. Some foods even have a negative caloric value. And you definitly need to be careful what you put in your mouth...thats why eating healthy is important.

[skygazer]

37. Age is also a factor, though

The older you get, the harder it is to lose weight or maintain a healthy weight. That's just a fact of life. I don't eat a lot and I exercise but it's much, much harder for me to maintain my weight than it was 20 years ago. Back then, I could eat junk food (and did) and I drank a lot of fattening alcohol and I was a rail. Age makes a difference.

It's not just "what goes in versus what goes out."

[fudge stripe cookays]

46. Age and health conditions.

After being diagnosed with MS last year, I absolutely cannot work out like I used to.

reprehensor and I have just joined a gym so that I can swim. Working out used to be very easy; all I had to do was get out and walk 6 to 9 miles at the park, and I could keep myself in perfect health. Not anymore. My legs turn to jelly and I lose coordination. The Texas heat makes it impossible to get out of doors during the summer; the heat is just too much.

I had just lost 30 pounds when I got diagnosed. The first thing they did was treat me with IV steroids. After that, the depression did the rest. I have now gained that all back and more. I'm hoping the swimming will get me back on the right track. I went to the doctor the other day, and my blood pressure was 120/70, which is high for me. It's usually 110/70, no exceptions.

[Evoman]

52. Well, actually it is....

obviously as you get older, you don't need to eat as much. Its still in/out, its just that your metabolism is slower and burns those calories all the slower.

[Evoman]

dooppppp

Dupe post.

[calico1]

17. Correct.

And nutritionists are starting to also realize that one person can eat a lot of carbohydrates and not gain weight, but another person may be more sensitive to them. Or some people can eat more fat or sugar than others. We are not all made the same with the same cookie cutter and this is why so many diets fail. Because they are designed with cookie cutter solutions to widely different and diverse people.

[hedgehog]

21. I'm convinced that weight and dietary requirements have more to

do with race than skin color. (Did I say that properly?) I really think that some groups people can eat certain foods and that others can't. I also think that body types may be a result of whatever your ancestors were up to. I look at the people on both sides of my children's family and they all tend to be big people who need to work out a lot to avoid going to fat. Is it only a coincidence that going back centuries they were dairy farmers who had to be able to muscle cows into place?

[nini]

18. "Before the people on meds get mad at me"???????

Well, there's a comment that shows way more than you realzie about your attitudes towards others :eyes:

[Evoman]

29. I didn't mean anything by it.

I'm sorry if I caused offense. People on drugs can certainly find themselves in a tough position...metabolism changes are difficult, and can cause massive weightgain.

[nini]

32. It looked ugly though.. but I accept your explanation

thanks for clarifying

[auntAgonist]

58. I had to read that post twice to get the meaning behind what

the poster was saying. He/she was referring to people who take medications that inhibit weight loss, I think.

aA

[ScreamingMeemie]

56. Tell that to people with Thyroid troubles... I know my sister in law

would surely appreciate you telling her that it's just that simple.

[Scout1071]

78. I'm trying to boost my metabolism by eating within 30 minutes of working

out - on either side of the workout. A friend suggested it to me and it made sense.

So now, I might get up and eat a small yogurt, go for a 30 minute power walk, then grab a banana, orange, peach, whatever, for the 45 min ride to work. Light lunch, mid afternoon light snack (piece of fruit or couple of pita chips and hummus), healthy dinner and another 30 minute power walk.

Sometimes I skip the morning walk.

I've been doing it for 3 weeks and have lost about 4.5 lbs. That's exactly my weekly target.

[bertha katzenengel]

8. I'd post the popcorn smiley, but I'm obese and so have no biz eating

popcorn. :eyes:

Yes, hedgehog. Some misguided, ignorant fools are weight snobs. I am taking pains not to be profane.

:grr:

[hedgehog]

11. I was going to say ignorant snobs.

but I didn't want to get flamed.

[bertha katzenengel]

12. If I get flamed, so be it. I have fought this battle too long to be nice.

[xmas74]

19. Thank you!

I work in a group home with women who are constantly monitored dietwise. They consume no more than 1200 calories a day, exercise a half hour every night and their diets are quite healthy.

Guess what? My three women are still anywhere from 45-75 pounds overweight.

People can say "calories in, calories out" all they want but that doesn't change what I've witnessed. We can't limit any more calories without putting them in a dangerous situation and we can't increase their exercise levels because of excessive injuries in the past.

[bertha katzenengel]

22. but xmas, haven't you heard?

All it takes is to mind your calorie intake and exercise. Those women obviously have candy bars and cheetos spirited in in the dead of night.

[xmas74]

34. I know.

Of course, I have the night shift so we both know there will never be Cheetos and candy bars allowed.

[prole_for_peace]

45. i think air has calories for some people.

i eat very healthy 95% of the time. my co-workers are always commenting on how healthy my lunches look. but about once a week i will eat a burger and fries. i have some peanut m&ms occasionally. i exercise 5 days a week but i am still overweight.

when i was in my early 30s (i am 40 now) i ate much worse but still worked out the same and i was ripped. my arms and legs were defined, my stomach was flatter but has it never been flat. i miss my "old" body.

i would have to work out hours a day now to have that body. but i have a job.

[hedgehog]

24. As I hope I made clear,

I'm eating better now than I ever did as a kid or teenager, I may actually be more active, I know I'm eating less but now I weigh much more. I couldn't even begin to eat as much as I did back then.

[xmas74]

36. I understand perfectly.

I used my ladies as an example because, truth be told, they probably eat healthier then 98% of the people posting on the boards yet they still cannot lose weight. And how many people on the boards actually exercise 1/2 a day, seven days a week? I bet it's even less.

Looking at the women in my home I have to wonder if there isn't something more to it sometimes then "calories in, calories out." They've done everything right yet still cannot lose the weight. They have lives that are more controlled then most of us will ever have.

In some people's minds they have two strikes against them. One strike for mental retardation and another for being overweight.

[Writer]

38. May I ask what your ladies are doing for exercise?

[xmas74]

40. Water aerobics.

One does chair aerobics since she is wheelchair-bound.

We make it fun for them since they cannot understand why it is so important that they exercise for their health but they do get in a full half hour's worth of exercise. (The staff who does it just finished her bachelor's in physical education and is now waiting to find a teaching position. She worked her way through college with this company and is now teaching everyone how to do the exercises so when she leaves we can continue.)

One has had knee surgery and one has fractured her hip twice before. The third was never ambulatory. This limits what they can do for exercise, as does time constraints.

[Writer]

41. Okay. I was curious...

I've noticed a large difference in the quality of my exercise when I incorporated free weights. Now, not everyone can do that, and it sounds like the ladies you work with have different health and injury issues that would make this difficult, but I noticed that simply doing 20-30 minutes of cardio has helped little. Not until I picked up weights did I see results that stuck.

I guess it depends on what your goals are. I say aim for health not weight loss.

[xmas74]

42. That is our goal.

Health instead of weight loss.

No way they'd be able to do free weights. Besides, if one of them gets mad a weight might become projectile!

[Left Is Write]

55. What's happened....

is that the use of weights has undoubtedly increased your lean muscle mass, which increases your metabolism.

Cardio burns fat and provides a temporary "afterburn" boost to your metabolism, but lean muscle mass produces a 24-hour-a-day metabolism increase. Ideally, the two should be used together, but physical limitations do make that difficult for some folks.

[VelmaD]

59. It may be a matter of too few calories...

I ran into that problem a couple of years back as a part of my weight loss odyssey (lost about 150 pounds by eating healthy and exercising.) I wasn't eating enough. Below a certain level of caloric intake your body can go into a kind of starvation mode where you won't lose weight. Your body hordes the calories for as long as it can.

[Left Is Write]

83. That is true...

and an extended period of consuming too few calories can lead to a serious (and hard to reverse) slowdown of metabolism.

[Nikia]

72. Others who consume no more than 1200 calories are considered anorexic

Twelve hundred calories is usually not sufficient energy intake for most teens and adults. Some who consume so few calories will rapidly drop weight and literally waste away to nothing. Others will be overweight. I don't think that eating less calories for the overweight person is the answer. Getting more calories for the underweight person is usually the answer though. Sometimes, I realize how weird it was when I said "There is nothing wrong with me for only eating less than 1000 calories per day. An overweight woman at work is only eating 1000 calories per day and she is heavy (medically obese). Since I eat as many calories as her, I couldn't possibly be eating too few calories."

[Critters2]

23. You can eat popcorn

You just have to NOT EAT something else later.

[hedgehog]

25. And no butter!

Actually, having worked in a cereal plant where we used artificial butter that came in 55 gallon drums, I can't bear the taste or smell of "buttered" popcorn now!

[trof]

28. I've gone from "obese" to merely "overweight" since Jan.

And I'm working on "recommended".
For me it's been pretty simple.
And not too difficult, once I got into it.

If I use more calories than I take in I lose weight.
In 8 or so months I've gone from 275 to 238.
It went on slowly and it has to come off the same way to stay off.
I can eat anything, but have to keep the average daily intake to 1500 calories.
Portion control is the answer, and it's not a "diet".
It's just how I eat now.

Works for me.

[Writer]

30. See this opens up an impossible discussion...

because so many in the US have a weight problem and it becomes a personal, visceral issue.

I grew up very thin. I was much like your daughter - I could eat an entire bag of potato chips and not gain a pound.

That is, until I turned 25 and my metabolism slowed considerably. I have since gained about 25 lbs. above my college weight.

That said, the only method that has worked for me IS eating properly AND getting enough exercise - something many Americans do not have the luxury, because of time and stress, to do.

I think what bothers me the most when discussing weight issues are the amount of "hands in the air" excuses that I hear from people about their weight issues. Thyroid problems, hormonal imbalances, etc. On a few occassions that is very much the case. However, if I were to go to a public elementary school today and observe the number of overweight children (versus my memory from about 20 years ago) I have to shake my head. There is something about lifestyle that seriously affects our average health in this country - including weight gain. But it's a difficult issue to introduce, because feelings get so easily hurt ("It can't be ME!") I think it leads to a very difficult discussion to have with anyone.

[Missy Vixen]

74. Writer, I'm happy to talk with you at any time about hypothyroidism

>I think what bothers me the most when discussing weight issues are the amount of "hands in the air" excuses that I hear from people about their weight issues. Thyroid problems, hormonal imbalances, etc.<

It's hardly an excuse. It's something I'll live with daily for the rest of my life. My nonexistent metabolism is the least of the problem, and anyone else living with this disease would be more than happy to chime in on this as well.

Julie

[Writer]

80. I think I continued to remark that it most certainly is an issue for some.

I am not callous to thyroid issues, or any other medical issues that affect weight gain or loss. My point is that some without those medical reasons resort to deflect the blame away from their own habits. Nonetheless, it's always a difficult discussion to have because it's of such a personal nature.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

31. People who are weight snobs who have never struggled with weight...

Need to back off. If you've never had a weight problem you have no right to say a word, because you have no idea how hard it is.
Duckie

[flvegan]

33. "Wildly ignorant" is only the beginning.

Nutrition is not a strong point of the "medical establishment" as you've noted. I could rant all day on this, but I'll spare DU my gripe.

Problem is, it CAN be as simple as "eat less, exercise more" but ONLY for a percentage of folks that are overweight. Genetics play a huge role in the metabolic rate. "Eat less" is a fool's paradise, as can be "exercise more" honestly. Eat less, no. Eat properly, yes. Exercise more, no. Exercise properly, yes.

Controlling weight can be a lot more complex than almost everyone realizes.

For the record, I'm a certified trainer (though it's not my trade) and a bodybuilding/fitness junkie. I don't look down on anyone that's overweight, especially if they're trying to live healthier. Matter of fact, I'm one of the first to jump the shit of anyone that puts these good folks down.

[xmas74]

39. Thank you!

There has to sometimes be more to the story then just "calories in, calories out."

It is complex. I stated an example above that shows that sometimes it must be more complex then we think.

And how many people are there out there in the "recommended" weight area that are actually quite unhealthly? I'd say there are a few like that. I worked with a woman once who was perfect according to every weight chart yet her cholesteral levels were through the roof and her blood pressure-well, she should have already been dead.

Sometimes I think we focus more on the outside appearance instead of how healthy the individual is overall.

[bicentennial_baby]

48. Yep...as a thin person...

I've gotten plenty of crap on this site for being who I am, even though I eat as much as any "normal" person... :shrug:

[BreweryYardRat]

51. Plenty of people are weight snobs, especially here in Florida.

Land of the idealized body image, second only to California.

I need to lose 40 lbs at most, and 80% of girls here look through me like I'm not even there.

And I try to eat reasonably well (not perfectly, since I've got a major sweet tooth) and exercise fairly regularly. However, I think stress is an issue in my case.

I've heard a couple studies say excess stress can cause weight gain. Something to do with the hormone cortisol and the fact that our bodies were originally designed to react to stress by calorie-burning fight or flight, not having to choke it back.

I had to internalize a LOT of stress in high school, and high school is where I gained most of my fat.

[Nikia]

53. Of course

And some of us were unfortunate enough to be raised by them. At my grandmother's funeral, my parents (who are divorced but both there) were telling me that I was still too thin (I am recovering from anorexia and was about 5 pounds underweight) and giving my sister a hard time about being fat (she is probably about a size 10 now).

[hedgehog]

54. I don't mean to imply that this is your situation

(because I don't know your life history) but your story did remind me of a family I know in which eating or not eating is a daily battleground with all the kids.

[Nikia]

57. There were lots of weird eating things that did go on with us

As well as body image issues.
Eating disorders can be hereditary, both genetically and growing up with attitudes and behaviors around us.

[Digit]

60. Yes, but I realize it may happen to them in later life as well

I was always such a tiny thing and have difficulty finding clothing small enough.
I was able to eat anything and not gain wait. My weight never varied from 97 pounds.
Then I had my daughter years later and I don't know WHAT happened.
I don't eat sweets...I don't even like sweets, nor do I drink regular soda.

Recently, I attended a class with about 10 women and the teacher's husband brought in some treats consisting of various desserts; muffins and cookies specifically.

I was probably the heaviest of the group, but did not have even a bite.
The skinniest lady had a couple, and at the end of the class, planted herself next to the remnants and scarfed up every last bit.

I believe we have alot to learn about obesity.

[VelmaD]

61. eat healthy and exercise is the key for most people...

I have lost half my body weight over the last few years and let me tell you...no one ever wants to hear that. I have people at work ask me all the time what the secret is. And when I tell them I changed my diet to consume a lot fewer calories and eat food that was better for me and that I went to the gym 4 or 5 times a week...they didn't want to hear that. Most people look at me like they want me to impart some magical cure...that there was something I did or took or whatever that made all the weight disappear without any effort. But it was the same thing my doctor has been saying since I was a kid...eat your veggies, don't eat junk, and go outside and play.

And before anyone yells I know it's not that easy for some people. As I've mentioned before, my best friend has both Type I and Type II diabetes and her weight and caloric intake bear almost no reltaion to one another (I've seen her lose and gain 35 pounds of water weight in a week...it's scary.) But you know what, I'm not sure I'm buying that most people have that kind of health issue affecting their weight. Yes, some people have faster or slower metabolisms (mine is so slow it's measured in geological time). And yes the crap they put in our food doesn't help. But eating healthy and exercising is ALWAYS a good idea.

[auntAgonist]

62. weight snobs....yes!

I cannot believe how differently I'm treated at work now that I've lost 156lbs. I'm suddenly someone worth talking to. I now apparently am smart enough to handle special projects. I have men at work stopping to talk to me when just last year those same men would turn away as I walked towards them.

The snazzy dressed model types at work no longer snub me. I'm now a size 8, I 'fit' right in.


I'd love to have the nerve to say to these people...

"I'm the same person I have always been, no smarter, no more worthy of your esteemed attention than I was at 291 lbs. You just couldn't see through the fat and your prejudices to value me as a person. Your loss."


aA
:hi:

[zanne]

64. auntAgonist...

Did you get sick or did you diet? I always wonder when I see/hear of people who lose so much weight. Are you OK?

[auntAgonist]

68. Thanks for your concern, and please don't worry :)

I struggle with my weight for years, a lifetime really. I'd gain , I'd lose yo yo all the time. No matter how I tried to keep the weight off it wouldn't stay off. I spent thousands of dollars on meal plans, Dr's, weight watchers, nothing worked. I was eating very little in the last 5 years or so but still the weight stayed on. I exercised, it did no good.
I opted for weight loss surgery. I had a biliopancreatic diversion with a duodenal switch in March of 2005. I'm healthier now than I was. I no longer suffer from a few medical co-morbidities that I had. I eat MANY times a day now. It seems that I eat ALL day :) I take vitamins and supplements because this surgery impairs the absorption of nutrients. Easy to take the vitamins. I look after myself a lot better, I feel better, I look better. I did this for me and not for the 'weight snobs' who didn't think me worthy enough to be respectful.

Thanks so much for asking about me. That really was a kind thing to do.

:hug:

aA
kesha

Just a little info I wrote on the weightloss/maintenance group.

BPD/DS (bileopancreatic diversion with a duodenal switch)

This operation works two ways, restriction and malabsorption, but neither method at the severe degree. In fact, either method by itself would not cause weight loss. It is the combination of the two methods, which works. The restrictive portion is a stomach of three to five ounces formed by removing (not bypassing, therefore NOT gastric bypass surgery) part of the stomach with no band or narrowing at the lower end – only your own pyloric muscle opening and closing. The selective fat malabsorption is achieved by using only the lower eight to ten feet of the small bowel (ileum). In addition, only the last two or three feet of this bowel has full pancreatic digestive juices and bile. The bypassed portion of the small bowel (bilio-limb) carries the pancreatic digestive juices and bile from the liver, it absorbs water and bile salts from these fluids, and no bowel is removed.

[zanne]

70. That's wonderful,auntAgonist!

That had to be a scary thing to do--congratulations!

[distantearlywarning]

65. I'm one of those "people on meds".

Here I am, a lazy worthless person, "raising my hand" to tell all of you about my imaginary disease that is obviously only an excuse for my weight problem. But maybe you'll listen anyway, despite the fact that I am a bad person who needs to be starved before I can join the ranks of the normal people again. :eyes: I've posted about this before, and tried to be nice. Obviously nice is meaningless, so here's a post with a little more venom.

I have hypothyroidism. The reason I was diagnosed is because I gained about 35 lbs in the space of 3 months with no change in diet or exercise (although I admit that the original diet and exercise at that time was not very good). I went from being able to eat french fries with ranch dressing and a soda every day after school at age 17 and never gaining an ounce over 112 lbs to what I am now.

Now, I am still fairly overweight, despite the fact that I am medicated. But yes, it is still a matter of calories in vs. calories out for me. The rub is in HOW MANY calories out it takes to lose weight, and what kind of calories they are. I work very hard on my weight. I exercise an hour a day, free weights and cardio. I eat no more than 1800 calories a day, and I stick to a very strict regimen of a carb/fat/protein ratio diet that has been theorized to work better for thyroid patients. After many years of different types of diets, this is the ONLY thing that I have found that works at all for me. It is very strict, time-consuming and difficult to eat this way, and I don't know anyone else in my life who could stick to it. I literally plan out every meal I eat a week in advance, down to the tablespoon, to make sure that I am having the correct nutritional balance.

And yet, I am lucky if I manage to lose 1/2 lb a week. On other diets, I lost nothing. Literally NOTHING. I tried diets that brought me down to 1200 calories a week, I tried low-fat, I tried WW, I tried exercising 3 hours a day, literally everything. And nothing worked. The lower calorie diets (less than 1400 a day combined with exercise) made me feel so ill and tired I don't think I could have done them very long even if they had worked at all.

Yes, it's calories in vs. calories out, but what I have to do to lose weight is ridiculous. I know that someone who didn't have as flexible a lifestyle as I do or the financial means to eat this way couldn't do it, no matter how motivated they were. Telling people it is a matter of calories in vs. calories out is too simplistic. This mantra doesn't take into account the fact that some people DO have issues that don't allow for the simple "eat 500 calories less a day and lose weight". Some of us have to go to ridiculous lengths to get to that point, and it's not the same as people who are normal and can just stop drinking soda or whatever and the weight drops off.

It makes me feel terrible, actually, to hear those people spouting off about how they are down 60 lbs since January just because they stopped eating chips and walked to the mailbox once a day. Honestly, it reminds me of the Republicans who asked why the poor people in NOLA didn't just use their boats to leave the city. You people who are like that don't know how lucky you have it. Really. Please be aware that other people are not like you and they face different issues.

BTW, my mother is also hypothyroid, used to be very skinny, and gained weight before she was diagnosed. She lost the weight again after a similar struggle to my own with various diets that were totally ineffectual. This is a woman who was walking 5 miles a day and going on month-long bicycling trips PRIOR to gaining 40 lbs in 3 months. She was only able to lose the weight again through an extreme low-carb diet. Now she eats like a little bird. A normal person could not live on what she consumes. But its the only way she can keep her weight down. My story and hers are not unusual. It's not a "hand-raising" excuse, it's just a fact. This disease interferes in a major way with the ability to lose weight.

There are a lot of people on these threads talking about how they "know" most people don't have metabolism problems or other diseases. Some statistics indicate that up to 20% of women may have hypothyroidism, many undiagnosed. That's 1 in 5. 1 in 5 overweight women in these threads might be suffering from hypothyroidism, but the "I walk to the mailbox every day and lost 20 lbs last week" people "know" they're all just lazy. And that doesn't even begin to take into account other physical issues that might be interfering with weight loss for other people, including other, rarer metabolism problems, being on anti-depressants or birth control (very common in our culture today), and other similar issues. I personally know 3 other women in my circle of friends who take medication for hypothyroidism, and I don't have THAT many friends. It's not as uncommon as you think, and there's a lot of evidence that many people are subclinical and therefore not diagnosed. And yes, they are all overweight and have a lot of trouble losing it.

Yes, it's calories in vs. calories out for all of us. But the ratio and the work it takes to get there can be very different for people with physical problems, it's probably more common than you think, and we should all be sympathetic to the fact that some people have more difficulty than others. In some cases, losing weight might be so difficult that it the work it takes might just be nigh on impossible for any normal person to accomplish, and they shouldn't be blamed or scorned for that.

If we really want to solve the problem of obesity in this culture, we need to get past this smug blaming thing and start working on ways to deal with people's individual issues. For one person it might be just simply eating badly or overeating. For another it might be poverty and an inability to access fresh foods. For another it might be a disease, either physical or emotional. Diets are not, and should not be one size fits all. And telling every overweight person in the U.S. that the simple solution to their problem is "calories in vs. calories out" fails to take into account the myriad of problems different people face in their struggle to be healthier.

I'm not sure how many times different people are going to have to restate that last paragraph over and over and over again until the smug people get it. It's just NOT THAT SIMPLE for some of us. And some of us are working very hard to overcome our problems and don't appreciate being told that we're just lying about our food intake or should just do more housework and the weight will fall off. These weight threads astound me sometimes. This is supposed to be a Democratic board and the lack of understanding here makes me think I'm on that other board sometimes. Have a heart, people!

[Beausoir]

66. Absolutely fantastic post! Everyone should read your story.

You spoke for a lot of us with your words. Thanks.

[auntAgonist]

69. distantearlywarning, thank you!

Your very eloquent and heartfelt post speaks volumes for so many people. You're so right in so many ways, It's NOT THAT SIMPLE.


I wish you good health and happiness.

aA
kesha

[Missy Vixen]

73. I live with hypothyroidism, too

>Here I am, a lazy worthless person, "raising my hand" to tell all of you about my imaginary disease that is obviously only an excuse for my weight problem.<

Your post is brilliant, and I know you speak truth, because I live with it, too.

My thyroid's dead. This brings on a host of symptoms, regardless of taking thyroid replacement drug daily for the rest of my life. I wouldn't wish this disease on my worst enemy. At the same time, I read the smug posts on weight loss from those who've never struggled with one extra pound (or miraculously lost 75 pounds from "giving up soda and walking to the mailbox") daily as well, and I'm tired of reading them.

I wish you the best of health and happiness,
Julie

[XemaSab]

67. I've gotten shit about being fat since I was 12

For most of the last 17 years I have been a size 12. However, in the last 4 years my weight has crept up, so I'm now about 30 lbs heavier than I've been most of that time.

The most frustrating part is that I have felt fat my whole teenage/adult life, but now I would do anything to be that thin again. :(

[GalleryGod]

71. Your topic sentence sounds eerily like a GOP talking point, i.e.

"Senator, SOME PEOPLE ARE SAYING, that Hillary is an axe murderer "

I believe the custom,here,(I might be wrong) is to link that "looking at another thread" reference.


Thank you. Have a good Holiday Weekend.

[hedgehog]

75. Sorry for the lack of etiquette.

I'm just not up on all the finer points of linking to other threads. I came over here to vent because I didn't want to hi-jack the other thread. I'll try to do better next time.

On edit - here is the original thread - still going strong:

Obesity: It's Because Irresponsible Companies Put Sugar In EVERYTHING! on GD

[Silver Swan]

76. Weight is a very complex thing

I agree with hedgehog that many people are weight snobs. All one needs to do is Google a phrase like "disgusting fat" to find thousands of hateful remarks by such individuals.

I also agree that the medical field does not know everything about weight. While there is a lot of research going on, most is undoubtedly funded by pharmaceutical companies who hope to cash in if a "cure" for obesity were to be found. As it stands now, weight loss, for the most part, does not cure fatness. Most people who lose weight regain it. That's why Weight Watchers has such a thing as a "lifetime" membership--most customers come back to try again and again.

I also agree that if an individual has never had a problem maintaining a normal weight--for example, a person whose weight has varied only 10-15 popunds for their whole life--such person should not be lecturing other individuals who may find such weight maintenance impossible.

There should be no more stigma attached to weight than there is to height. After all, aren't we, on average, taller than our ancestors were 150 years ago? Why is it surprising that we, on average, also weigh more? It may be that we have little more control over our weight that we do over how tall we are. In a culture where unlimited food is available, the wonder is not that many people are "overweight," but that some people are not.

[Wapsie B]

77. With any other medical condition it's normal to have compassion

with the medical community as a whole striving to get to the root causes of the disease. Instead obesity is looked on with disgust and derision by many. Personal appearance is the last accepted form of discrimination. Tell an Actuary you're overweight and they'll have your untimely demise calculated down to the minute. For something that seems to be the contributing factor to so many other maladies such as heart disease or diabetes I don't see a concerted effort to solve this problem.

[nosillies]

79. My weight has stressed me for about a decade now

For the most part, it's been those 10-15 "vanity pounds," but there was a period where I was very overweight and really hit my rock bottom before I fought and got it off. Part of it was a medical condition, but a large part of it was being too lazy and eating too much to overcome that medical condition. And while my medical condition is better, I still fight tired and hungry every day. (Not to mention the fact that I'm currently pregnant! You should see what my ass does in anticipation of childbirth.)

I almost appreciate it when people are critical of those who cry "it's my medicine" or "it's my thyroid" when talking about their weight problems. Because let's face it: just as there are so many who have medical reasons that make losing weight difficult or near impossible, there are plenty who use this as an excuse to not fight the battle that most humans must fight. And these people only do a disservice to those with real issues -- they become the boy who cried wolf of the overweight community. They discount the very real plight of others.

I will never forget this one group of siblings at a school where I worked. They, along with their parents, were all overweight. Mom made their lunches because she wanted them to have good home cooked food -- and it was ridiculously unhealthy fare in huge portions. She wanted them to stay in the computer lab as much as possible during breaks/recess because computers make you smart, and the sun gives you skin cancer and the gym is full of germs. She told me once that the whole family could never lose weight because they had hormone and thyroid problems. I asked her when they had been diagnosed -- they'd never been to a doctor for a diagnoses, she was just convinced that that was their problem.

I will admit that I LOATHED that woman. I couldn't stand her not so much because she was fat, but because she had a crappy attitude, she wouldn't even try to do better, and she was killing her family. I truly feel like people like that should be called out, so that the public and medical community will take others seriously.

[distantearlywarning]

81. Yeah, I probably would have loathed her too.

I can totally see what you mean about her making it harder for the rest of us by "crying wolf". It sounds like she was just in denial about what was really going on with her family. And she sounds like an idiot in general.

[nosillies]

82. An idiot with wonderful, warm kids

I think about them sometimes and hope she hasn't totally ruined them by now.

[L A Woman]

84. I admit to being one of them at one time

When proper diet and exercise work for you - and it seems to work for most people - it is hard to understand why some people don't get results from that. But I have come to understand it better now.

[GalleryGod]

85. Me,too.