My youngest, my daughter, wants to watch A Clockwork Orange with us

[CBGLuthier]

So as soon as dinner is ready we are going for it.
The semi prude side of me is fighting it but the movie lover side has won out.


I can look at the wall during the worst parts, right?

[MrSlayer]

1. Why would you look at the wall?

How old is your daughter?

[dback]

4. I saw that once 18 years ago, and am still pissed off/disturbed by it

In my opinion, Kubrick took an anti-fascism social satire and revelled in cold, fascistic (and fetishistic) indulgence.

It's the sort of movie that people with limited social skills extoll as brilliant satire, like "Fight Club" "Kill Bill" "Natural Born Killers" and others. (You can see the throughline here.)

As Pauline Kael said, "It feels as if the film itself was made by Droogs."

[MrSlayer]

5. Hmm, I really like Clockwork.

It was supposed to be disturbing, the scenerios and soundtrack as the ultraviolence went on and all. To me it's a classic, Malcolm McDowell is brilliant as Alex. Of the ones you mentioned I've only seen Natural Born Killers and while I like the movie, I don't think it's close to being in the league of Clockwork.

[Taverner]

33. Well gotta disagree with you there

Its a movie where the viewer is supposed to self reflect

[Redstone]

39. Well, you're gong to take some flak for saying that, but I agree.

Redstone

[Bucky]

44. flak

flak flak flak flak

(take that)

[zonkers]

2. Have no idea how old your kid is but that film is intense.

[Downtown Hound]

3. If you really think she's mature enough to handle it

then let her. But explain to her what the deeper messages of the movie are. It's anti-violence statements, it's message about the need for, and the price of free will. I don't believe art can ever really hurt anyone, and as far as I'm concerned, all of Kubrick's films are works of art. But teach her to view it in that way, and I think she'll not only be fine, but probably a stronger person for it.

[XemaSab]

6. That is a really fucked up film

The rape scenes alone would disqualify it for any kid under 18.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

11. I saw it when I was 15 with friends and we all handled it just fine.

It depends on the kid, but I think most could handle it before the age of 18.

[mongo]

7. My daughter and I watched it when she was 15

and I am not a fan of violent movies. But in Clockwork, it all is woven into the point.

[speedoo]

8. I think you should reconsider allowing her to watch it.

How old is she?

I know at least one woman who saw it in her late 20's and, saying it scarred her for life would be an overstatement, but not by a lot.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

10. It turned my stomach when I saw it at 25

I have no interest in seeing it again.

[LoZoccolo]

9. We are all asking how old your daughter is.

I think it kind-of hinges on that.

I saw it in college for a psychology class where we had to discuss the different schools of psychology presented in it, and some people got really disturbed by it and complained. The TA was sympathetic and told people not to make them watch anything they didn't want to.

[CBGLuthier]

12. to answer the burning question

She is 15 and a half but plenty mature for her age.

I think it went Ok and she got the point of the movie.

[Lautremont]

13. I saw it at that age, more or less,

AND I'M FUCKING FINE, THANK YOU VERY MUCH BLOO BLOO BLOO BLOO!!!

(I am actually fine.)

[Reverend_Smitty]

14. I read the book before I saw it for the first time

I guess since I knew what was coming it didn't disturb me as much as I thought it would...I think I was about 15 at the time. I guess it all depends on the person

[mitchum]

15. I first saw it when I was 13 and have seen it a dozen more times...

and have never beaten, raped, robbed, or killed anyone. It is the only Kubrick film that is worth a damn.

[IntravenousDemilo]

16. Oh, I dunno, what about Dr Strangelove and Paths of Glory?

Nothing too shabby about those either, or Spartacus, Lolita, parts of 2001, and the first half of Full Metal Jacket.

[mitchum]

17. I just find them to be real middlebrow and obvious

Of course, "A Clockwork Orange" is also obvious, but it's stylishness makes up for the Kubrickian defect

[IntravenousDemilo]

21. Well, I like this bit, anyway.

Hello?... Uh... Hello D- uh hello Dmitri? Listen uh uh I can't hear too well. Do you suppose you could turn the music down just a little?... Oh-ho, that's much better... yeah... huh... yes... Fine, I can hear you now, Dmitri... Clear and plain and coming through fine... I'm coming through fine, too, eh?... Good, then... well, then, as you say, we're both coming through fine... Good... Well, it's good that you're fine and... and I'm fine... I agree with you, it's great to be fine... a-ha-ha-ha-ha... Now then, Dmitri, you know how we've always talked about the possibility of something going wrong with the Bomb... The *Bomb*, Dmitri... The *hydrogen* bomb!... Well now, what happened is... ahm... one of our base commanders, he had a sort of... well, he went a little funny in the head... you know... just a little... funny. And, ah... he went and did a silly thing... Well, I'll tell you what he did. He ordered his planes... to attack your country... Ah... Well, let me finish, Dmitri... Let me finish, Dmitri... Well listen, how do you think I feel about it?... Can you *imagine* how I feel about it, Dmitri?... Why do you think I'm calling you? Just to say hello?... *Of course* I like to speak to you!... *Of course* I like to say hello!... Not now, but anytime, Dmitri. I'm just calling up to tell you something terrible has happened... It's a *friendly* call. Of course it's a friendly call... Listen, if it wasn't friendly... you probably wouldn't have even got it... They will *not* reach their targets for at least another hour... I am... I am positive, Dmitri... Listen, I've been all over this with your ambassador. It is not a trick... Well, I'll tell you. We'd like to give your air staff a complete run-down on the targets, the flight plans, and the defensive systems of the planes... Yes! I mean i-i-i-if we're unable to recall the planes, then... I'd say that, ah... well, ah... we're just gonna have to help you destroy them, Dmitri... I know they're our boys... All right, well listen now. Who should we call?... *Who* should we call, Dmitri? The... wha-whe, the People... you, sorry, you faded away there... The People's Central Air Defense Headquarters... Where is that, Dmitri?... In Omsk... Right... Yes... Oh, you'll call them first, will you?... Uh-huh... Listen, do you happen to have the phone number on you, Dmitri?... Whe-ah, what? I see, just ask for Omsk information... Ah-ah-eh-uhm-hm... I'm sorry, too, Dmitri... I'm very sorry... *All right*, you're sorrier than I am, but I am as sorry as well... I am as sorry as you are, Dmitri! Don't say that you're more sorry than I am, because I'm capable of being just as sorry as you are... So we're both sorry, all right?... All right.

[drbtg1]

27. Well, since you brought up Strangelove, and this is DU, let's...

...make a connection between brilliant satire and unforgiveable reality

from the movie

President Merkin Muffley: You're talking about mass murder, General, not war!

General "Buck" Turgidson: Mr. President, I'm not saying we wouldn't get our hair mussed. But I do say no more than ten to twenty million killed, tops. Uh, depending on the breaks.

from MSNBC's "Saturday Final with Lawrence O’Donnell" on Aug. 30, 2003

COULTER: These are the same arguments, the precise same arguments that were being made before the war. It’s going to be a quagmire. What is the plan? When do we get out? How much is it going to cost? Someone in the military might get his hair mussed. We heard all these arguments.

JILLETTE: No, not mussed. They might die; people die.

COULTER: With many candidates voting in favor of it.

(CROSSTALK)

JILLETTE: This was not a hair muss; they died! They died! They did not get the hair mussed.

[LoZoccolo]

42. I have this friend and when we start arguing or fussing about something...

...one of us will break the tension with something like "don't say you're more sorry than I am, Dmitri" or "of course this is a friendly call!"

[Aristus]

18. I think its a brilliant film. But Kubrick's cold, pessimistic atheism kind

of squashed the Christian message at the heart of the film: that if one is forced to do good against his will, it is just as evil as if he had chosen bad on his own.

The role of the prison chaplain was reduced for the film. His character is much better in the novel.

[Random_Australian]

23. Eh? Since when was that an exclusively Christian message?

[Aristus]

26. It's not exclusively a Christian message. I didn't say it was.

Anthony Burgess, the author of the novel, was a Christian. And he intended the message to be viewed as Christian. Remember, this was before the Religious Right hijacked the notion and meaning of Christianity and turned it into what Stephen Colbert might call "Christianityness".

Calm down, Random Aussie. Everything's cool.

[Random_Australian]

29. Ok, that makes sense.

Sorry if I misread. I have been at war with the forces of "Atheists don't value human life and muslims are goats" recently, you see.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

30. that'll do it

:)

[Aristus]

31. That's not me, Random Aussie. Very few of DU's Christians are like that.

Beleive me, we abhor the people who act, think and talk like that; makes real Christians look bad.

[Random_Australian]

34. I know, I know.

I talk over these things with DU religious people extensively.

Don't worry, I am well aware of the many different viewpoints in each religion.

And as for DU, I can only think of one off the top of my head, and there are thousands of Christians here.

BUT... one point of contention... saying various people are not REAL Christians is something I would argue against. Perhaps 'not people who follow the same interpretation as you' but saying people are not Christians always unsettles me.

[Aristus]

35. You're right; bad choice of words. I mean, I hate it when they say

I'm not a "real" Christian. Thanks for keeping me honest. O8)

[Random_Australian]

37. Well then, we have a happy ending...

.... which is all part of the Evil Atheist Conspiracy/Posse/Cookies Group.

AND YOU FELL FOR IT!

Now you will have to suffer having people not judge you on what group you belong to. Oh, the horror!

:)

:hi:

[Aristus]

38. Shit! I HATE not being judged by others!

After all, the only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about. ;-)

B-)

[YankeyMCC]

45. Never mind nt

[Omphaloskepsis]

19. Ask her about it..?

Try to open up a dialog.. The odds are she is thinking about jimmy and his hot ass Cameroe. (sp?)

[Luna_Chick]

20. I made it through the first 15-20 minutes, if that

My boyfriend at the time and I actually thought we were renting Monty Python and the Holy Grail. Brainiacs at the movie place apparently put the wrong film in the box (back when we were still renting VHS tapes). Um, yeah, talk about a shock. He watched the whole thing but I went into the bedroom to read for the duration.

Maybe one day I'll try to sit through the whole thing. Haven't had the urge yet, though.

[deucemagnet]

22. The book was re-released a few years ago...

...with the missing 21st chapter that was not included in American editions of the book until now. The 21st chapter was symbolically important, because it showed how Alex felt as a 21 year old adult.

I feel the book (which is short and an easy read) got the point across better than the movie, but hey, if you feel your daughter is mature enough, viddy the movie and have a gavoreet about it. Real horrorshow!

On edit: Here's a link to a nadsat/english glossary to help you understand the yahzick they gavoreet in. http://soomka.com/nadsat.html

[bridgit]

24. a bit of the old Ludwig Van is it...

[seemunkee]

25. So, did you watch it?

Its one of my favorite movies, I have no idea how many times I've seen it.
My daughter watched it last summer at 16 and it is one of her favorites too. I would rather she watch it than some of the slasher movies that are out.

[Richardo]

28. That was an X-rated movie when first released. As was 'Midnight Cowboy'

Hard to believe, innit? They are likely PG-13 by now.

[Jade Fox]

32. Glad to see I'm not the only one....

who hates that movie.

[bigwillq]

36. How old is she?

:shrug:

[Ariana Celeste]

40. Upthread...

he said 15... :hi:

That movie disturbed me quite a bit and I saw it the first time just a few months ago... I think it is a must see for everyone though... and I ordered the book (should be in the mail any day now.)
:)

[driver8]

41. I remember reading that book in high school and having to look

up words in the glossary at the back of the book.

I thought Kubrick did a great job with the movie.

[Bucky]

43. My advice is to say no.

You can rationalize anything and certainly kids around the world have seen far worse in real life compared to what Kubrick put on screen for emotionally prepared adults to see simulated. But it's a harsh harsh movie and I think it's more appropriate for an adult audience.