Al-Anon. (Not AA, Al-Anon) worth a try? Anyone done it?

[Redstone]

Redstone

[speedoo]

1. Yes.

Essential for those who are close to alcoholics/addicts.

What else would you like to know?

[Redstone]

2. Only how much it helps. Not sure I can do it myself anymore.

However, you did say "essential," so I'll take that as a positive recommendation.

Thank you.

Redstone

[speedoo]

4. I'll revise my comment to "absolutely essential".

If you attend a meeting, one of the first things you will hear is that you cannot do it yourself, not at all. Just as the alcoholic cannot do it on his/her own.

Al Anon is a parallel program to AA, it actually came out of AA. Uses its own version of the 12 steps.

[Redstone]

7. Thank you too much. While I may not agree with each of the 12 steps,

I do know that AA works.

Therefore, the Al-Anon offshoot should be worth investigating as well.

I appreciate your responses. I do.

Redstone

[speedoo]

10. You are most welcome.

AA saved the life of a loved one for me and Al Anon kept me from going insane.

PM me if you want to know more.

Good luck.

[Redstone]

13. I may do that PM. Your offer is greatly appreciated.

Bad night here tonight. And, I think, that one too many.

Redstone

[speedoo]

17. Anytime.

Absolutely anytime.

[Redstone]

22. Noted and appreciated. Well-appreciated, indeed.

Redstone

[graywarrior]

3. Saved my ass....got me into the "enemy camp" eventually.

Sets you straight...quick.

[Redstone]

5. Sets you straight in the sense that it makes you stop enabling?

And stops you making excuses?

Redstone

[graywarrior]

9. Yup. Makes you keep the focus right on you.

Kicks the enabling thing right in the ass.

[Redstone]

25. I think you sent me a phone number via PM. I may use it tomorrow.

If you wouldn't mind me doing so.

Redstone

[SeattleGirl]

6. Yes, and it was very helpful to me.

Just remember that groups are like individuals -- some you like, some you don't. A couple of the meetings I went to at different places were awful. Bunch of people trying to outdo each other with stories of "My alcoholic". Blech! Finally found a couple of other Al-Anon meetings that fit me quite well, and were very positive experiences for me.

[Redstone]

11. Thank you for the great perspective. I'm not interested in competitions,

and it's damn good to know that some groups devolve into that (but it's just human nature, so I don't blame them).

I'm not interested in whining or pointing fingers. I'm only interested in finding out how to deal with this problem in a way that will enable me to limit the damage where my kids are concerned.

I'm a big guy. I can take it. But the kids can't.

Redstone

[SeattleGirl]

16. How old are your children?

There are also Ala-Teen groups that help the younger ones amongst us, and may be helpful to your kids.

[Redstone]

20. 21 and 10. The 10-year-old is having some difficulty with all of this.

He won't just come out and say it, of course, but it's there.

Redstone

[SeattleGirl]

23. Having grown up with an alcoholic parent, I agree.

Your 10 year old is very aware that things aren't right. Though he's only 10, perhaps you could check out Ala-Teen, or see if there is a group for people even younger. If not, may I suggest a counselor or therapist who is very familiar with the effects addiction has on others. Took me many meetings (Adult Children of Alcoholics as well as Al-Anon), and a bunch of therapy to untwist the knots inside me. Getting him some help or support now would probably really help.

Also, you going to Al-Anon and learning better how to deal with things will also have a good impact on your son.

All the best to you, Redstone. :hug:

[Redstone]

29. I'll do that. Thank you yet again.

Glad to hear you found some peace in the end.

Redstone

[LynzM]

8. No personal experience...

I know my dad went for a while (my grandfather died from his long battle with alcohol). So, I will just offer love and hugs, my friend. :hug:

[Redstone]

12. Your offer is appreciated more than you can know.

Redstone

[LynzM]

19. Any time.

Literally, any time, especially when I'm down your way. Also, if you want to grab some coffee and vent, that's always an option. :hug:

[Redstone]

21. I know. I know that if there was NOBODY else I could count on,

I could count on you. And Mr Briarius as well.

Can't say for sure if I'll call on you guys for the support that I'm sure you'd be only to happy to offer, but if I need to, I will. You're good friends.

Redstone

[Ellen Forradalom]

14. Absolutely.

It helped me deal with my parents' alcoholism. I learned a LOT in Al-Anon. Of course, much depends on the character of the particular meeting you attend.

[Redstone]

30. Someone else pointed that out as well. I'll remember to be

choosy, and will remember your help with this situation as well.

Thank you.

Redstone

[idgiehkt]

15. I've done it off and on

I think it is very helpful; one of my favorite things I took away was the three C's of someone else's disease: you didn't cause it, you can't control it, and you can't cure it. Dealing with someone who is actively using can whittle your life away little by little and groups like Al-Anon and Codependents anon.(Coda) can help you put the focus back on you and what you do have control over.

It's funny because there is a joke that circulates in AA that says that the Al-Anon handshake is a wagging finger but I found that to be so completely untrue when I started going. On the contrary, I found folks in Al-Alnon sometimes to be even more hardline than in AA about accepting responsibility for stuff including obsessing about someone else's compulsive addictive behavior.

[Redstone]

27. Those "three Cs" make me feel better already. I will remember them,

and will be forever grateful to you for elucidating them.

Redstone

[graywarrior]

18. Thing about AL-ANON is, when you find the right group it is much

gentler than AA. Very supportive. No Shut Up and Listen attitude. Try several groups. 12 step ones are the best. They focus on the message more than open meetings do. Keep in mine, some are sicker than others....even in AL-ANON.

[Redstone]

31. Yes, you're not the only one who has advised me to "choose a group

carefully." I will indeed do so.

I don't do groups very well, and never have, so that's quite important advice. And I appreciate it.

Redstone

[vickitulsa]

59. If Al-Anon is anything like other 12 Step programs I'm familiar with,

it's hugely important that newcomers attending can always remain almost totally silent while they check out the particular groups they're visiting. AA and its variants for the abusers puts a small bit of pressure on new folks to at least offer up their (first) names and say a word or two of introduction -- more to make the regular group feel comfortable than anything else, is what I always thought.

EDIT: Clearly I thought you were male, from what follows. But I decided to leave it in because it's nearly as true for middle-aged women as for men. :) Sorry I didn't check first... I'd read your posts before in other part of DU and had somehow got the idea you were a man. SORRY! Bet I don't forget to check first next time. :blush:
~~~

One thing I noticed that I thought I'd mention to you. Whenever our group (I was in more than one but one of them was far and away the best and most helpful to me) welcomed a newcomer who was a grown man, even an older man (not real young anyway), everyone tended to accord him an extra bit of respect as far as intrusive introductions go. Not stereotyping here (I hope), but in general I think we understood that it could be a lot harder for a man like that to even give 12-Step meetings a try than it would for, say, a young woman.

Therefore I would hope you could expect to be allowed to sit quietly, even in the back, and make your assessment of any specific group at your own pace before you are pushed to do even so much as offer up your first name. Others here who know Al-Anon in particular instead of just 12-Step groups generally can no doubt give you specifics on this, but I thought it might be worth telling you.

Several middle-aged guys I've known (I'm way more than middle-aged) who have attended meetings first time have been pleasantly surprised that they were not treated like children or "newbies" who had to be strictly "handled" in any way. One of the many things I loved about those meetings -- people knew enough to leave reserved folks alone and let each one make his own determinations about groups on his (or her) own terms.

Good luck, Redstone! I think you'll be surprised just how helpful it can be, even if all you do is listen to others who have the same problem you do. So many good ideas and suggestions are discussed in every meeting, in my experience. A lot to benefit from and very little if any pressure -- what more could ya ask? :)

Like anything else in life, just "eat the straw and spit out the sticks," is what I'd suggest. Some aspects of their 12-Step regimen might not appeal to you, but the benefits of some steps can be life-changing, and in a very good way.

[Bucky]

24. Strongly recommend checking it out if you're thinking about it.

What worked for me was figuring out that I wasn't going for the addict I was dating. I was going for me. The meeting I found that I needed to join told me to (or really helped me to see that I should) quit doing exactly the things I thought I needed to do to get my friend to quit drinking. Alanon helped me find the tools to be happy and grateful, even when things weren't perfect.

[Redstone]

32. That's a helluva wake-up call. You response is noted and

well-appreciated...and thank you.

Redstone

[politicat]

26. I'd recommend S.O.S. instead; they have better results.

Secular Organizations for Sobriety (and their associated organizations) is a secular alternative, with a higher success rate and a mission to use experientially proven methods rather than the 12 steps, which have about a 5% success rate. (AA does not really work; the success stories are generally based on people who have a proven motivation to regain a sense of control over their lives.) SOS also addresses the issue of drug replacement - i.e. replacing booze with smokes, or booze with anti-depressants or pain medications - in a way that AA tends to fail to do. Further, it is entirely secular, placing faith in the individual, rather than the program or some faith system. I'm not knocking faith systems, but when people use a faith system as their basis for sobriety and then, for some reason or other their faith system fails them, the tendency is to return to the behavior.

Here are State listings: http://sossobriety.org/meetings/states.htm

And here is the family and friends philosophy: http://www.sossobriety.org/family.htm

[Redstone]

33. I'd not heard of them before, but you can be assured that I will

check them out tomorrow morning.

This has to stop. If they can help, more power to them (especially the secular part).

I appreciate your contribution. I do.

Redstone

[CaliforniaPeggy]

28. My dear Redstone..........

I have no experience with this group.....

But I am here if you need me.......:hug:

[Redstone]

34. Oh, Pegster, you don't know, because I'm so reluctant to talk about it.

But I know you're there for me. That helps more than I could ever tell you.

Redstone

[greatauntoftriplets]

35. A friend went to ACoA...and found it extremely helpful.

This was some years ago and she came to terms with everything. Today, she is a mental healthcare professional in the VA system working primarily with vets with PTSD. I think that her experiences with ACoA gave her a unique perspective to deal with patients.

Good luck, Redstone.

[Redstone]

36. Worth looking into. ANYTHING that might help would be.

hearing my 10-year-old screaming into the phone, "Mommy, you have to come home" really took some of the wind out of my sails tonight.

Redstone

[greatauntoftriplets]

37. Oh God....

I can imagine. Good luck to you and the offspring.

[Redstone]

38. Wasn't easy.

Sorry for the sloppy typing.

Redstgone

[greatauntoftriplets]

39. Not a problem.

I truly wish you well.

[Redstone]

41. I know you do. And I appreciate your input, I do indeed.

You speak wisely.

Redstone

[LynzM]

42. Oh dude....

No words, for that one. Just :hug: :hug: :hug:

[Redstone]

44. You're a true friend, you are. I'll manage, though. I always have.

Time to shut off the computer for this night.

Redstone

[rug]

40. Don't think about it, just go.

Alcoholism is radioactive. Anyone in the vicinity gets sick as well.

Go to a meeting, sit and listen. If it's for you, you'll feel at home soon enough.

This is not a situation you can think your way out of. Just go.

[Redstone]

43. Well, damn. What a succinct response. I believe I'll follow your

excellent recommendation. No joking here. Your post says all of what needs to be said. So I'll listen to you, and I'll just go.

"Not a situation I can think myself out of" is a phrase that works for me.

I owe you for this advice.

Redstone

[flamingyouth]

45. Yes, it was helpful for me years ago when I needed it.

I had a family member going through recovery at the time, another family member in complete denial over the whole thing and I was left bearing a lot of the burden, being the only child. I still read some of the booklets from time to time, actually.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

[bullwinkle428]

46. I wish I had the strength do it - my ex had a prescrip. med. addiction

I guess I thought it made me stronger and more noble to try and deal with it completely by myself, and I let it get to the point where I was starting to feel suicidal, like going to bed at night and hoping I wouldn't wake up the next morning to have to deal with it. I probably started reacting like a cornered animal and started standing up for myself and things got scary before they came to a head and we ended up splitting, but I look back on it thinking what a moron I was to not ask others for help...just do it to maintain your own sanity, above all else.

[reyd reid reed]

47. I don't know what I can offer you

Except, maybe, a hug. My ex had a problem but wouldn't go the AA route; said it didn't work for him. I tried the Al-Anon thing and the meeting I went to was like the one described above...a lot of finger-pointing and placing blame; I understand they're not all like that, though. I wasn't in a good frame of mind at the time, and kept on enabling for years.

BIG mistake because I still do it. I see it and I hate it and I'm powerless against it.

Don't let yourself get to this place. Do something.

Now.

If you need anything...ANYTHING...holler. I'm a good listener.

:hug:

:loveya:

[WCGreen]

53. So am I .....

A good listener that is...

If you want to talk about AA, PM me....

[Left Is Write]

48. I'll echo the others: definitely worth a try.

One of my children has an alcoholic parent.

My best wishes for you, Redstone.

[WCGreen]

49. I am a recovering Alcoholic....

And I wish the people around me had gone to AA while I was still drinking...

I have advised people to go to AA since I sobered up in 1983...

What you have to realize is drinking, for many, just covers many other problems and that to stop drinking alone does not solve all problems...

Keep that in mind if the drinking stops and the problems persists...

[reyd reid reed]

50. What I've noticed is that the problems that started with the drinking

tend to last longer...the repurcussions keep coming back again and again and again. It's like a nasty virus that just won't go away. And that if it gets bad enough, it can start the drinking again. That 'Why bother?' mentality.

It's scary. Makes you walk on eggshells.

[WCGreen]

51. You just have to address one problem at a time....

I don't know how many AA people would say they quit drinking but still got divorced even though they went to AA and stayed sober...

It made me realize that if you were an Ass Hole when drinking, you were probably an Ass Hole when you are sober...

Alcohol just magnifies traits in people...

And there is the stunted emotional development associated with drinking...

For instance, an AA'er would say that even though I am 48 years old, I am only 36 years old emotionally since I drank for twelve years...

But my life fell apart in so many ways after I quit drinking and I had to struggle to realize that my problems are the same as other people have and that you have to overcome them by living outside the bottle...

[reyd reid reed]

52. I'm sorry

I know the feeling...granted, from the other side, but...

:hug:

[RetroLounge]

54. Here is my experience, my friend.

Al-anon indirectly saved my life.

My first wife, I discovered too late, had a history of dating drunks, trying to fix them, failing, and moving on while sinking deeper into her dis-ease.

So we were perfect for each other, as my alcoholism and drug addiction were peaking when we met and she was a major enabler. After a few more years of putting her thru hell, and myself thru the ringer, she finally went to Al-Anon (behind my back :D ) and found he strength and courage to walk and end the emotional abuse I was kindly drunkenly providing.

When i hit my bottom, her and I were living in different states, and I was suicidal, depressed and drunk, and after my last, nasty drunk, i sobered up enough to drive and see her. She answered her door, told me she had been attending al-anon meetings for 6 months, and she was the first person who called me an alcoholic to my face, and she handed me an AA big book and told me to get help, then closed the door in my face and let go of me and began moving on with her life.

16 years later, I am still sober and I trace my willingness to quit to seeing the success she had in Al-Anon.

Please feel free to PM if you want to talk further.

RL

[Vidar]

55. Yes, kept me reasonably sane for 15 years.

[NC_Nurse]

56. It helped me.

And I was surrounded by drunks and addicts at the time. Grew up with one. Family tree full of them.
Remember, it's "take what you like and leave the rest". You don't have to buy into every bit of it to get something out of it.
You don't have to say anything if you don't want to.
Sometimes it's just nice to listen and know you're not the only one. :-)

[Name removed]

57. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LaurenG]

58. I can't speak highly enough about Al-Anon

The changes come about because the focus starts to be about us rather than others. I felt free as soon as I walked through the door.

My sponsor wasn't fooling around about healing. Her first words to me were, "focus on yourself", whenever I would complain or feel my heart break those words would come into my head.

It isn't about being selfish it's about working the 12 steps and creating a good life for you. As it frequently turns out the new focus frees you up and the problems become manageable. Self worth and personal power are given back to you rather than given away trying to "fix" and control the behavior of someone else.

I wish you well. Al-Anon will give you back your life. As the saying goes, "It works if you work it".:hug:

[datasuspect]

60. alcoholics anonymous (THE grandaddy of all 12 step movements)

is the basis upon which each subsequent 12 step program has been formed.

aa in its best version (depends on zip code, usually places where people are more educated) can be akin to group therapy. a comfortable place where you can talk to people with similar problems.

in its worst version, aa is nothing but a fundamentalist cult where they treat the core text, "Alcoholics Anonymous" (or as members affectionately call it, "the big book"), as scripture and reverently refer to the "First 164;" i.e., the first 164 pages of the big book wherein is contained the actual "12 step program" description and instructions.

in fundamentalist AA, the members are fundamentally radical about doctrinal purity relating to sobriety, recovery, and maintaining it according to the "program." never MISUNDERSTAND, there is only ONE program and it was written in the 30s primarily by a bill wilson, a washed out sales man and stock speculator - he thoroughly enriched himself and his estate through his work with alcoholics anonymous (which is supposed to be an avocation and something you never do for money).

that being said, al-anon has a watered down version of the 12 steps and they repeat over and over that they work on themselves and don't focus on the alcoholic, but they do focus on the alcoholic.

12 step programs prey on people with shattered psyches, poor self-esteem, and little self actualization.

[Redstone]

61. May I take this opportunity to thank you all? You're a damn fine group of

people, you are. And don't think for one second that I don't appreciate you, every one.

Redstone

[flvegan]

62. So this is a yes, right?

Going to check it out, at least? It would seem to me, you know, that what you're talking about is so much more than worth it.

[Redstone]

64. Yes, indeed. By the way, are you a 904 area code?

Redstone

[flvegan]

68. No, sir.

I'm an 813, but my office and fax lines are 727. I'm close to a 904, though, sort of.

[sir_captain]

63. Just wanted to say

I'm thinking about you tonight. Hang in there.

[Redstone]

66. I'm hanging in. It's a much better night tonight.

But who knows when the next implosion will be?

Your thoughts are well-appreciated.

Redstone

[coffeenap]

65. I'm thinking of you too.

:hug: I hope you find healing. m.

[Redstone]

67. You're a saint.

But I've already told you that.

Redstone