Right-wing Family Christmas Hell!

[Crowdance]

It's been a long couple of days with the sanctimonious, right-wing branch of the family here for the holiday. Tonight it all just fell apart as the sister-in-law, brother-in-law and two teenage sons felt the need to lecture us all about how we are fallen, and the cause of all the world's problems. They used to be such nice people, and now teach their sons that women are subservient to men, evolution is a lie and my gay friends are sentenced to hell. I couldn't stand for it another minute, having these people in my own home telling me how degraded we are. My 16-year-old said it best: Mom, why bother? You can't reason with these people.

At least we avoided discussing how shrub is on God's mission this trip. Any other fellow sufferers out there? How are you coping?

[fishguy]

1. What denonimation are they?

Many mainstream Christian denominations do not buy into the whole six day creation thing.
Tell them to read the end of the Second Letter of St. Peter.
Do some research on their particular denomination, then surprise them the next time you see them how incorrect their views may be based on what they think.

Do you know what I do with relatives like these-just avoid them.

[Crowdance]

11. Methodist, but I think it's a weird kind of Methodism

Their church seems much too conservative to be Methodist to me. I had considered joining a Methodist church until I heard some of the odd stuff this group teaches. I wish I could just avoid 'em. Unfortunately, we're in New York, and the two branches of my husband's family are in Virginia and New Hampshire. So, it seems a kindness to my mother and father-in-law to allow them to meet here. They're lovely souls and I do like to accomodate them. Unfortunately, next year, I won't be doing this again....

[fishguy]

13. It might be their particular church, congregation, and minister

Protestant denominations and congregations can differ wildly, even within the same faith.

If I were you, I would check out their particular denomination on the Internet to see if their particular views match up with the views of that Methodist branch.
Chances are, your relatives have a Jerry Falwell-type view of Christianity, not a Methodist view.

[Bush loves Jiang]

43. Put it this way...

There are gay-friendly churches in the SBC. (Interestingly, I also learned that there are non-Stalinists in the WWP.)

[Interrobang]

49. Honey, I don't think there are any Stalinists anywhere anymore...

Not in the WWP, not in the Communist Party of Canada, and not in the Wobs, either... ;)

Is there any way those of you afflicted with terribly religious families can declare your houses to be "Religious Discussion-Free Zones" or anything? I mean, I wouldn't put up with that kind of thing from MY family if they were at MY house. I'd tell them that unless they could keep their religious views to themselves, they weren't welcome anymore. Then again, I'm an uppity atheist with a patchy history in the "getting along with the fam" department, so YMMV...

[blackcat77]

24. Southern Methodists are a lot like Baptists.

Northern Methodists are more like some social organization.

[Crowdance]

25. I see that now. I checked their church's web site

and their related links are all to Southern Baptist organizations. Not a single one to the national Methodist organization!

Are Southern Methodists a separate entity from the northern group? I'm wondering about whether supporting my local Methodist church financially means these nutcakes get my support too?

[ldoolin]

42. Methodists

The United Methodists are the main Methodist group and are fairly mainstream and liberal. Sometimes called "Northern Methodists" but that isn't really accurate anymore. At one time it was back when the Methodist church split during the Civil War.

The right-wing groups are small splinter denominations, like the Southern Methodists, Wesleyan Methodists, Free Methodists, Church of the Nazarene, etc.

If the local Methodist church is United Methodist you can be pretty certain they're worth supporting.

[Bush loves Jiang]

44. WTF?

Wesley was a liberal, Just like Jesus Christ.

[Skittles]

36. I agree with fishguy

avoid these idiots. What benefit to you get from tolerating them?

[Crowdance]

40. My fabulous husband

who gifted me with a heartline bear, is the reason I've tolerated this stuff. But it's time for the foot to come down, and he'll have to continue to love me anyway.

[alphafemale]

2. In YOUR Home? I'd tell them to mind their manners or get the F-ck out.

Ignoring crap like that is one thing if you are visiting them...but there is no way I'd feed and shelter such a fool.

[Blue Gardener]

3. They were in YOUR home?

I would have shown them the door pronto. I used to be silent and listen to that garbage, but as I get older I have more of a tendency to speak up. Too bad if the don't like it. I can always get on DU if I want to listen to sane people.

[Ilsa]

12. ITA with alphafemale and Junebug.

These freaks are setting a very bad example for their children by going into someone else's home and lecturing them.

If they think you are so rotten, it must be grating against all their morals, except sanctimonious greed, to come and eat your food. I think a letter is in order that you will not tolerate such behavior in the future. If they cannot hold their tongues, they should celebrate Christmas alone.

BTW, I realize how hard it is with family. There are times when I tolerate certain family members only out of respect for my dead mother.

Better luck next year. Maybe your family should shun them for Christmas next year.

[Crowdance]

15. Yes, a follow-up letter is a good idea

I can keep the confrontation away from my kids and in-laws that way.

[bearfan454]

4. I'm surrounded by freepers.

At work, in my neighborhood, almost everywhere. We know what is right.
They do not.

[Occulus]

5. So when they started lecturing you

why didn't you just toss all of them out?

[izzie]

37. I once lived in the South and this happened.......

I opened door and two women pushed me aside and walked in a sat down on my sofa and started reading the Bible. What gall and I had trouble getting them out of my house.They Were Baptist. I was not speechless but nothing was going to move them.

[proud patriot]

45. That's what sweetgrass and sage are for

Native Americans use these to ward off evil spirits .

[7th_Sephiroth]

6. mr RW cousin started preaching

in my home, i took my Katana and cut his thick heavy bible in half

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

7. Luckily,

my family has decided that I am completely nuts and they don't talk religion with me. Of course, they are liberal Methodists and Unitarians, and good Democrats,so we merely ignore religion and talk politics instead.

[Zeke]

8. Michael Corleone...

"In my bedroom where my wife sleeps...where my children play with their toys. In my home!" --- "The Godfather," 1974.

Shake it off Crowdance.

And a Merry Christmas to you, DU Comrade! :)

[AlFrankenFan]

9. Usually...

...I go to my right-wing side of the family for the holidays, but because my step-mother is having medical problems, I didn't this year. The last few years, however, were quite literally hell.

My father always, first thing, points out that I'm a Jew. "You're insulting Jesus by coming to this church." he says hypocritcally when he drags me to Mass.
When we drive around during the weekday afternoons, none other than Rush Limbaugh is there to help give my father material to insult me with. "Take that liberal," or "How do you respond to that, Clinton?" are some of the hits I take from my father and step-mother.
Faux News is constantly on, Bill, Hannity, Brit, and the barrell full of them, and if one of them insight an issue, my father starts arguing with me.
During a party, he once brought me around to people, drunk, and says, "She's the only liberal here, folks!"

How do I cope with the constant assholerly? I go to the library as often as possible and get online, or curl up with a good liberal book.

[fishguy]

14. How can you insult Jesus by going to Church?

Church is meant to be for everyone.
These people are not Christians, they are cultists.
Jesus would slap those people silly if he were around.

[AlFrankenFan]

16. I know, it barely makes sense

:shrug:

[fishguy]

17. I know my priest always says

welcome to visitors and anyone who does not normally attend this church.
In other words, all are invited.
Many Protestant denominations get these clergy who are not well-educated to start off with and they promote their own brand of Christianity.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

22. Two points

1) Jesus DID slap people for much less than that, didn't he?
2) A Jewish friend of mine told me ages ago Jews are allowed to enter Mosques and Protestant (except Anglican) churches to pray if there's no Synagogue around, but not Catholic churches because of the imagery. Therefore, it's actually the other way around.

[fishguy]

31. So Jews do not allow themselves in Catholic Churches?

Of Catholics do not allow Jews in their Churches?
And when did you friend tell you this, A.D. 432?

I think your friend is off base about Jews not being allowed in Catholic Churches.

[Kamika]

32. I bet it's that jews do not allow themselves

I bet it's the whole deal of images of jesus as the messiah etc etc

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

35. Yep. And all statues of saints, Virgin Mary etc.

Of course, many Jews will say "yeah, so what?" and go to a Catholic friend's wedding. Just like many Christians WILL fix the antenna on a Sunday even if the Reverend frowns. What my friend told me was the Orthodox position.

Edit: no (nt). There is (t).

Another edit: "fix the antenna"? I'm getting old.

[A HERETIC I AM]

19. What i would have said if my dad ever did this sort of thing...

"During a party, he once brought me around to people, drunk, and says, "She's the only liberal here, folks!"

I would have politely smiled, and in the most pleasant voice i could muster say "Please pardon my father. When he drinks too much he has the tendency to become a monstrous horses ass." Then stare at all of them at see what response they could come up with.

[Kamika]

30. Your father really doesn't sound nice

Whats up with trying to make you feel bad and stuff? Fathers shouldn't do that

[AlFrankenFan]

39. Pfft If i knew why he does anything he does

a thousand questions could be answered.

[The Zanti Regent]

10. I know the feeling.

In 1980, my family was hard core Democrat, but then everyone converted to the Assemblies of God except me. Now they are all hard core GOPers who balme everything on Clinton's Cock. I hang up the phone on them and ignore them.

[Lars39]

18. Do we have the same relatives?

It's like tiptoeing thru a swamp with gators, isn't it? Are they ignorant and proud of it like my set? Banging your head against a wall has as much effect as trying to converse with them about rational things.

Things came to a head today with my fundy southern baptist inlaws. The showdown has been building up for a looooong time. They think I ought to forgive my BIL(who threatened to kill my daughter some time ago) and make my daughter be around him, to make her understand how to deal with difficult problems, and also "because it's the christian thing to do". I wouldn't budge and my husband wouldn't go without us, so we didn't go. I don't know if we are in the shyte house as far as the other siblings go, but I frankly don't care. I have come to fully resent the rude remarks, the pharisee prayers, and the mind games the MIL in particular plays. She was caught in one of her invalidation lies today by my husband. He now realizes what she does. It's sad to see him grieving for the loss of the mother he used to know, and for the way things used to be.

[fishguy]

20. Southern Baptist, enough said

Southern Baptists have to be so self-righteous, since their faith began on a pro-slavery paltform in the 1840s.

[The Undertaker]

21. heh...

my uncle kisses Norm Coleman's (MN Senator) ass all the time. He likes him as much as he likes assface in the White House.

[blackcat77]

23. My wife's sister once told me I was demon-possessed...

because I have occasional panic attacks. And I could get better if I just had enough faith.

I've been a Christian since 1970 but was never a goofball fundamentalist like they are. The sad thing is that she's had all sorts of health problems over the years and the idea that she'd brought it on herself by a lack of faith would never even cross my mind. I sure am glad that the God I believe in doesn't go around smiting people just to watch them squirm.

[Kamika]

26. were about 50-50

were about 30ppl some all the way from korea.. anyway it's mostly the older generation who are reps.. since Bush is the reborn son of God and all.. practicly everyone of the younger generation is liberal. I'd say 100% of us are christian baptists so we don't have any real religious arguments but I almost blew up at my cousin earlier today when he went on for about 10 minutes how only USA dares to help weaker nations etc etc etc.

But we're still all friends and love eachother and all.. we all know to keep our mouths shut (except for some ppl) about politics.

This guy who raved about Bush was practicly ignored even by his "allies" since noone wants a political debate(war).

[7th_Sephiroth]

38. heh heh heh

i'd love to see a family function like yours

[Crowdance]

27. Thanks DUers. Though I don't post often

I lurk constantly. I knew I could come here to get some genuine "cheer" in the face of all the nasty.

[MrSlayer]

28. We just don't talk about politics.

Because it becomes a shouting match. My Dad and Brother are mostly conservative and I am mostly liberal so we're at loggerheads a lot of the time. The sad part is they know the whole war is based on lies but they just don't care. Ah well, at least they aren't religious nuts to go with it. But if they were I'd probably never talk to them at all and would never allow them to preach in my house. We all agree on that issue.

[sleipnir]

29. I'd just ignore them for enternity, but you might not be so inclined

I'd personally right them off, but that's just me. If they're going to be off the deep end, there's no sense in even consorting with them, even during the holidays. I'm not sure about your situation, but it sounds like they're happy with their choices and unlikely to change. As the old adage goes, "Unlike friends, we can't pick our family, but we can ignore them."

[many a good man]

33. "Never discuss religion and politics in mixed company"

is an old saying my mother taught me. It is a hard thing to do for people like us who care deeply about politics or religion or family but the saying holds a lot of wisdom. Most hard core conservatives are completely incapable of holding an honest discussion on these issues. They are close minded and only know how to preach and berate.

You need to make it clear to them that you love them but because of your profound differences these topics are off limits. Let them know the choice is theirs: speak of these things and you will leave. You don't want to leave, but if they choose to be uncivil you will go without argument.

As this incident occurred in your own home, it would have been your right to ask them to leave if they chose to continue. They'd probably even respect you more for that. The ball is then in their court: do they care more about family or do they care more about pontificating about their asinine extremist positions?

[A HERETIC I AM]

34. Regarding the "Evolution is a lie" thing....

Most protestant xtians that cling to that silliness do it because they know in their heart of hearts that their faith is built on a house of cards. If the literal Genesis/6 day creation account is wrong, then the story of Adam and Eve is wrong. And if that is wrong then there was no fall from grace. And if there was no fall, there is no need for a saviour. And if there is no need for a saviour...well.....you see where i am going. People that want to stay convinced that the earth is only 6 - 10,000 years old, stay that way because of a narrow point of view and a fear of being wrong.

Once again i pose this question and suggest you pose it to these boors;

What is the meaning of the Christ to you? Is the story more important than the moral? Isnt it more important to gleen the basic and universal truths from the biblical tale, the Koranic tale, the Hindu tale and all the others than to stay convinced that things for which there is absolutely no evidence and no physical possibility are real?

The moral; Do unto others as you would have done to you.
Treat the less fortunate with kindness and compassion.
Do the right thing.


When confronted with self righteous, pontificating relatives, stand your ground. Ask them questions in that vein. Most real fundamentalist viewpoints cant stand the rational light of day.

If this were actually a christian nation, the arguments regarding healthcare and the social safety net would be moot.

[proud patriot]

46. Great post A HERETIC I AM

:thumbsup:

[TrogL]

41. Tell them "God is dead"

and start quoting Neitzsche.

Failing that, go here...

[Nlighten1]

47. Who owns that RR link you gave?

I found a mistake on one of the pages.

http://members.shaw.ca/trogl/RANT1.html
Double-think: to hold simultaneously two opinions which canceled out,
knowing them to be contradictory and believing in both of them.

Example: The Universe was created 6000 years ago. Carbon-dating is a
valid method of dating rock. Carbon-dating shows existence of rock
millions of years old. There is no contradiction here.

I am being driven to complete distraction by otherwise nice enough
people who cannot or will not think. You hear it in their
conversation, you read it in their posts, you see it in their actions

Potassium-Argon dating is used for objects millions of years old. Carbon-dating, if I remember correctly, is for objects 14,000 years or below.

[A HERETIC I AM]

48. Carbon dating is only good for things that have carbon in them.

i.e. organic items.

If i am not mistaken

[MisterP]

51. Nietzsche: "God is dead."

God: "Nietzsche is dead."
(still feeling Christmas-y and the DMX in the Triaminic...)

[Lydia Leftcoast]

50. I have two brothers, one center-left and the other right-wing

I was wary of possible political blow-ups yesterday (there was a mild one at Thanksgiving), but we kept the lid on.

The liberal brother gave me an intriguing-looking book called The Middle Mind (seems to be about dumbing down), and he enclosed a button that said "Vote Republican. It's Easier than Thinking" and a bumpersticker with a quote from Hitler about controlling people's minds. Rather than reading them aloud to the assembled family, I just winked at the liberal brother.

And all passed amicably.