Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Jesus As Philosopher.

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » The DU Lounge Donate to DU
 
elperromagico Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-03 08:05 PM
Original message
Jesus As Philosopher.
We all remember when George W. Bush cited Jesus Christ as his favorite "political philsopher" during the 2000 campaign. As this is a day when many celebrate the birth of Jesus, I thought it would be interesting to see how Christ's teachings have affected our 43rd President.

On Personal Wealth:
Jesus Christ: "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." (Matthew 19:21)
George W. Bush: Sold more than 200,000 shares of stock in Harken at a personal profit of approximately $1,000,000. Kept the money for himself.

On Dinners
Jesus Christ: "When you make a dinner or a supper, don't call your friends, nor your brothers, nor your kinsmen, nor rich neighbors, or perhaps they might also return the favor, and pay you back. But when you make a feast, ask the poor, the maimed, the lame, or the blind; and you will be blessed, because they don't have the resources to repay you. For you will be repaid in the resurrection of the righteous." (Luke 14:12-14)
George W. Bush: Regularly holds $2,000-a-plate fundraising dinners. No information can be found on the poor, the maimed, the lame, or the blind being invited.

On Helping the Needy
Jesus Christ: "... He will say also to those on the left hand, 'Depart from me, you cursed... for I was hungry, and you didn't give me food to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me no drink; I was a stranger, and you didn't take me in; naked, and you didn't clothe me; sick, and in prison, and you didn't visit me.' Then they will also answer, saying, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and didn't help you?' Then he will answer them, saying, 'Most certainly I tell you, inasmuch as you didn't do it to one of the least of these, you didn't do it to me.'" (Matthew 21:41-45)
George W. Bush: The Bush Administration and the Republican Party have refused to take any action to extend unemployment benefits this Christmas season.

On Persecution
Jesus Christ: "Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven." (Matthew 5:11-12)
George W. Bush: "You fucking son of a bitch. I saw what you wrote. We're not going to forget this." - Said to Al Hunt of the Wall Street Journal, after the Journal had written an article critical of Bush's father.
"There's Adam Clymer -- major league asshole -- from the New York Times." - Said in reference to a reporter who had been critical of the Bush family.

On Compassion
Jesus Christ: "Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy." (Matthew 5 : 7)
George W. Bush: "'Please,' Bush whimpers, his lips pursed in mock-desperation, 'please don’t kill me.'" - Mocking death row inmate (and fellow Christian) Karla Faye Tucker's request for a stay of execution.

I am driven to ask: What Bible does George W. Bush read?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
fishguy Donating Member (373 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-03 08:08 PM
Response to Original message
1. He reads Jerry Falwells and Pat Robertsons Bible
The one that says rich people are good because they have money and poor people are bad because they do not.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
elperromagico Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-03 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. "Go forth, and maximize thy profits."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blackcat77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-03 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Actually, some folks believe...
...that wealth is a sign of God's favour. That if you have money, that proves you're in God's good graces. If you don't, it's because you lack fairh or have unrepented sins. I have no idea where this came from, but it's certainly not the Bible.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EstimatedProphet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-03 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. That's pretty much straight Calvinism
as I understand it (I am no biblical scholar, so correct me if I'm wrong). Calvinism had as a basic tenet that hard work is rewarded by God with profit, so those that don't profit, clearly didn't work hard. Seems to be in conflict with the afterlife reward IMO, seems more like the Ferengi Rules of Acquisition...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
fishguy Donating Member (373 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-03 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Calvinism meant that wealth was a sign you had God's favor
Easier to recruit rich people into your religion.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
starroute Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-03 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. I think it's a mix of predestination and empiricism
Edited on Thu Dec-25-03 08:56 PM by starroute
The 17th century Puritans believed in a form of predestination whereby you were either destined to be saved or you weren't, and there was nothing you could do about it either way. The best you could hope for was to know for sure if you were saved, so they spent a lot of time being introspective and looking into their own innermost souls, trying to get a line on what was going on.

But at the very end of the century, a new philosophy of empiricism came into vogue, which stated that it was impossible to have direct awareness of spiritual matters -- that all human knowledge was sensory knowledge -- but that you could divine the will of God as reflected in the material world.

For some reason, the Puritans -- people like Cotton Mather and Jonathan Edwards -- snatched up empiricism very hard. I don't know why. Maybe they were embarrassed by that whole Salem witchhunt business, or maybe they were just worn out by too much introspecting. At any rate, instead of internal proofs of salvation, they started looking for external signs of God's favor instead. And what surer external sign is there of God's favor than having lots and lots of money?

The problem is that this leads into a sort of theological dead end, where power and money become not only proofs of virtue, but exemptions from actually having to practice virtue. Of course, you also have to believe in Jesus -- being a rich infidel doesn't count -- but that's the only other thing you need. Anything approaching genuine religion has been totally eliminated from the picture.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DieboldMustDie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-03 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Another problem with believing that wealth is a sign of God's favor...
is that it is directly contradicted in the Gospels.  e.g.:

Luke 6:20
And turning His gaze toward His disciples, He began to say, "Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God.

Mark 10:25
"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
elperromagico Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-03 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. I think a lot of it is drawn from the Parable of the Talents.
Edited on Thu Dec-25-03 10:43 PM by elperromagico
The Parable of the Talents.

Al Franken talks about this parable (and the conservatives' fondness for it) in his latest book.

Basically, two servants took the money given them by their master and made more money. The third was afraid and buried his money, and his master took all of his money.

By focusing exclusively on this piece of Biblical teaching, interpreting it very specifically, and ignoring all others (including the passage immediately following it, the Parable of the Sheep and the Goats), a philosophy of "Being Rich Is God's Will" can be attained.

I hardly think those two parables, which if you buy the conservative interpretation are basically contradictory, would be placed one after the other if they weren't related.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-03 08:09 PM
Response to Original message
2. Not the one I read
I believe that Jesus also had little use for hypocrites.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DieboldMustDie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-03 09:04 PM
Response to Original message
8. Mr. Bush is a disciple of...
Supply Side Jesus. :evilgrin:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ilsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-03 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
10. The Prayer of Jabez crap.
More of that bidness that God rewards his faithful.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GURUving Donating Member (707 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-03 10:43 PM
Response to Original message
12. Not that I actually know anything
this is pure conjecture.

There are people in the world without conciences, without empathy, and with an overwhelming desire to subjegate all.

They are the opposite of Jesus.

I don't remember Jesus being elected to anything.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
elperromagico Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-03 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Molly Ivins and Lou Dubose noted in "Shrub"
that most literature dealing with Bush prior to his campaign for governor in 1994 made no mention at all of his "dramatic" salvation story.

Bush did what any canny politician does; he saw a group of voters he needed to appeal to in order to win (Christian conservatives) and tailored his message to suit them. No Republican candidate for President had ever really played to the Christian right like Bush did.

Bush is a politically clever fellow. He continues to play well with rural voters, while shaping all of his policies to suit big business and the wealthy. His ability to keep the Christian right on his side (despite the fact that he merely "talks the talk" and doesn't "walk the walk") is another one of his (and Karl Rove's) great hat-tricks.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Dec 26th 2024, 10:35 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » The DU Lounge Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC