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A Toast to the Opposition: Barry Goldwater born January 1, 1909

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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-04 02:16 PM
Original message
A Toast to the Opposition: Barry Goldwater born January 1, 1909
It is said that in 1918, British fliers flew over the funeral of Baron von Richthofen and dropped a wreath to honor a foe who was, nevertheless, a fine example of a man. It is in that spirit that I offer this thread in honor of Barry Goldwater.

There are few public figures in my lifetime with whom I disagreed more as a public figure than Senator Goldwater. There are also few I have admired more as a man.

Goldwater was wrong about a number of things. He was wrong about the Vietnam War. He ran in 1964 on a platform of escalating the war. He was soundly defeated and President Johnson went on to escalate the war, much as Goldwater would have, leaving it to history to expose the folly of the plan. Goldwater voted against the Civil Rights Act of 1964. However, it would be wrong to call Goldwater a racist. He wasn't. He believed the act would do more harm than good; he believed that the act allowed the federal government to assume power over the states not granted by the constitution. History again has proved that Goldwater wrong in this, but the man's simple honesty stands out.

Goldwater the man chose his friends not from how much they agreed with his political ideology, but by how honorable he felt them to be. He counted among his friends Robert A. Taft, Hubert Humphrey and Jack Kennedy. He couldn't stand either Lyndon Johnson or Richard Nixon, both of whom he thought consummate liars. If there's an ideological pattern in that, I fail to see it. For Goldwater, a man known to hold firm opinions, there was nothing wrong with a man just because disagreed with him; Goldwater would always let others know where he stood, but respected the views of others nevertheless.

Barry Goldwater is often regarded as the father of modern Republican conservatism. There is much truth in that. However, Goldwater was a much different and much better man than many of today's congressional leaders. Imagine Tom Delay even trusting a Republican who would prefer the private company of Democrats because he honors them as honest men to a Republican president whom he thinks a liar.

Goldwater's honesty made him, in his time, the liberal's favorite conservative. During the unfolding of the Watergate scandal, all eyes were on Goldwater. His defection from the Nixon loyalists would spell doom for the besieged President. Goldwater kept his own counsel for many months. However, when the time came for Republicans to tell the President he could not survive, it was Goldwater who led the delegation from Capitol Hill to the White House to deliver the bad news to Nixon.

One of my co-workers, when a young man, once worked at a filling station in Phoenix, Arizona. One day he was working with another attendant, who took a regularly scheduled break just before it seemed every car in town drove in, leaving the young attendant to wait on costumers by himself (keep in mind that service stations in those days were typically full service). Who should come driving up while all hell is breaking loose but Barry Goldwater? He was a United States Senator, the owner of a large department store, one of the wealthiest men in Arizona, a man who was almost President of the United States and he was waiting for his gas and oil check. How does such an important man react to being in a situation where he is waiting to be served in a gas station with one overwhelmed attendant? Goldwater surmised the situation, got out of his car and started pumping his own gas. When he did, so did several other customers. The young attendant expressed his gratitude to Senator Goldwater for demonstrating that kind of leadership in that kind of situation that day.

Goldwater passed away in 1998.

So, today, let us celebrate the life of a man with whom we could sharply disagree and greatly admire at the same time. Barry Goldwater would have been 95 today.
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THUNDER HANDS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-04 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
1. I never had any problems with him
Probably because I was too young to remember him. :)

But he seemed like the type of person you wish most of today's Republicans were. Hard-core, die-hard loyalists who stand for what they believe in, but you respect them because you know they believe in what they saying.

Today's GOP is such a sham, and I bet 99% of them don't believe half the stuff that comes out of their talking points. It's a team game to them and to a member, they probably just consider themselves part of the team.

I doubt Goldwater would be a team player in today's GOP.
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Dookus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-04 02:27 PM
Response to Original message
2. To Barry....
he hated the religious-right takeover of the Republican Party as much as we do. He was an honorable man.
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Norbert Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-04 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #2
23. I'm sure he would have looked upon the shrub admin. as a sham
I didn't know he liked to drink. Nothing wrong about rasing a little hell as far as I'm concerned.

I had great adniration for Barry Goldwater. I didn't always agree with him but you can bet he spoke for his constituents and not a bunch of corporate lobbiests.

He was an honorable man.
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Leilani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-04 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
3. Thanks for the thoughtful Post
I admired Barry Goldwater also; he ran before I was able to vote, however He was the 1st political figure I really cared about. He told the truth about Vietnam, LBJ lied & won the election. That taught me my 1st political lesson: most politicians are liars. LBJ went on to do some good things, however as a person, he was scum compared to Goldwater.

I don't see any of his type in politics today. Sad, but true.

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Zomby Woof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-04 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
4. one of the 2 great Arizona political figures
The other being liberal icon Mo Udall.

There were many issues Goldwater and liberals could find common ground (besides his assessment of Nixon). Goldwater was ardently pro-choice, he favored allowing gays in the military (and he was very pro-military), quoting, "you don't have to be straight, just shoot straight", and he admonished the Republicans to hold off attacking Bill Clinton when he was the new president - "give the young man a chance".

He also was very critical of Reagan's 1981 inaugural balls, citing "it's outrageous to display such ostentatious wealth at a time when most people can't hack it." My favorite Goldwaterism was when he criticized Jerry Falwell during the Moral Majority's heyday in the early 1980's: "I think every good Christian ought to kick Falwell in the ass." :D

I agree, Jack Rabbit - Goldwater was what honorable opposition in politics was all about. He put his nation before partisanship, and principle above pandering. I do not agree with many of his constitutional interpretations, but his sincerity and intent were above question.

I join you in paying tribute to the conservative with a conscience.

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sexycool Donating Member (79 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-04 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. Carl Hayden-Served longer in Congress than anyone...ever
Edited on Thu Jan-01-04 03:18 PM by sexycool
57 years.

U.S. House 1912-27 (AZ's first Congressman)

U.S. Senate 1927-69

Delegate to the 1904 Democratic convention.
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Zomby Woof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-04 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. I was speaking in terms of...
...how they also were icons of their respective ideologies, and not just parties. Not ignoring Hayden or his major contributions, but he wasn't as visible on the national radar as either Udall or Goldwater.
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sexycool Donating Member (79 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-04 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Yes he was.
He was president pro tem of the Senate in 1964 and thrid in line for the presidency at that time.
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Zomby Woof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-04 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. is it really that important?
Edited on Thu Jan-01-04 05:38 PM by ZombyWoof
Really, it isn't worth hijacking Jack's thread just because I offered MY OPINION on two famous AZ politicians.

Besides, your little bio there doesn't refute my premise that Goldwater and Udall were synonymous with "conservative" and "liberal" respectively.

Most people hear Hayden, and say "who?" :eyes:
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sexycool Donating Member (79 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-04 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Then they are not political junkies like me then.
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sexycool Donating Member (79 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-04 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
5. I remember Goldie!
He almost got beat by a challenger in '88 I think it was. When they asked him if the closeness of the election would cause him to "work harder" back in Washington he said: "I'm not gonna break my ass" on live TV!

What a hoot!
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sexycool Donating Member (79 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-04 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
6. Goldie liked to get real drunk too
He was a drinkin' man. My dad saw him passed out on the floor of a downtown hotel one election night. What a character!
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Breezy du Nord Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-04 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Welcome to DU
:toast:
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Breezy du Nord Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-04 02:44 PM
Response to Original message
7. We had to read a portion of his book
In Amer. Gov when studying the difference between liberal and conservative. I honestly didn't even know he was dead. (My stupidity is showing, lol)

So, to Mr. Goldwater: Thank you for the book. It was much better than what we could've been reading (Ann Coulter?)

:toast:
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sexycool Donating Member (79 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-04 02:51 PM
Response to Original message
9. One other thing about Goldie
We either would have won in Vietnam or been the hell out of there by '68, I guarantee you that.
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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-04 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. I've never thought of it that way
There is, of course, no way to prove or disprove that assertion. However, it's difficult to disagree with it.

In politics, success oftne comes with an elephantine ego. Admitting a mistake, especially a big one, is often difficult. Goldwater might have been better prepared than most to realize that his hand wasn't as good as he first thought and fold his cards, then try something else.
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sexycool Donating Member (79 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-04 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. He never would have let it drag on like it did.
Johnson mismanaged that war and many people died because of it.
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Leilani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-04 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Goldwater cared too much about military people
to let them keep on dying, year after year, based on a lie.
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sexycool Donating Member (79 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-04 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Lie?
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TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-04 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. Might not have been in at all.
BG complained until the day he died that he got a bad rap from that Moyers commercial with the little girl and the daisies. Hated Moyers all those years for that, and the mushroom clouds.

Be that as it may, he was the war candidate, and it is seriously doubtful he would have been able to get a Tonkin Gulf resolution past the Senate. Johnson got it partly because of arm twisting, and partly because he sort of promised he wouldn't really use it.

I'd guess we would have found another way out of there in the first year he was in office.


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sexycool Donating Member (79 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-04 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. Yeah, Moyers is a real hypocrite.
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TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-04 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
18. Dignity, honor, service...
and someone you can disagree with and still respect him. And work with.

I don't pray for the day we destroy all Republicans-- I pray for the day when we have more Republicans like Goldwater to work with.

A few are still around, but now they hide them. Like they're ashamed of them.

Wasn't he a Major General in the Air Reserves? And still kept his flight status while in the Senate?



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MaryBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-04 06:07 PM
Response to Original message
20. Another admirable quality of this man
was his ability to change and grow, and admit mistakes.
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