Stupid questions about marijuana

[chookie]

I have nothing against the stuff -- in fact, I believe it should be legalized, and that people would not be abusing crack and meth and oxycontin if weed was easily available.

As a teenager, I loved to smoke it. It was fun. We used to call it "giggle grass," because it made us happy and feel like laughing about everything.

As one point, however, the type of grass that was making the rounds was really different. I called it "goon dope" because it rendered me senseless and really stupid. I stopped smoking it.

I know people who continue to smoke. They are all highly responsible professionals and family people whose use of weed does not interfere with their lives in the slightest or infringe upon the rights of others (like driving stoned, etc).

But, man oh man, when they are high, they are like zombies. I was at a party last night where a few people had partaken of the holy weed, and it was like being in the lobotomy ward of the state hospital. We're talking blithering idiocy -- and hell, I was drunk as a monkey, not sober like some Puritan preacher -- and they still impressed me as being really dumbed out! They made Bush look articulate. That's pretty bad.

My questions are:
1) Gee, do some people actually enjoy being "goony"? Is it kind of like an "opium den" thing?
2) Has trafficking in marijuana become so risky that people who deal in the stuff limit themselves to the most powerful plants on the planet?
3) Do low grade highs like "giggle grass" exist anymore, or are out there circulating still somewhere?

[jpgray]

1. As a youth, I'm only familiar with the goony green

But in comparison to the amount of alcohol I drank during my smoking days, it didn't seem honestly that different. :)

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

2. There are literally all types of pots just like wine

and use depends on the user and their desire to be functional..it's the differencee between a person who takes one shot of tequila versus drinking the whole friggen bottle.

One can take one hit and just take the edge off and alter perspective a bit or one can smoke till they can't see...

and yes..plants are now highbred..those grown indoor oy hydroponically tend to be stronger than outdoor grown.

[CShine]

3. Things haven't changed that much

1) Yes, people like being "goony," and no, it's not like an opium den thing where you spend 24/7 there.

2) Some people are picky, and there is more good stuff out there than there once was, but most people take what's available.

3) Weak-ass dirt weed is everywhere. It will never go away.

[mkultra]

4. well, not that i ever inhaled but

The happy grass is not any less or more potent then the zombie stuff.

Difference is the species of which there are two

Indica and Sative.

Most weed is a blend or a variation of these two species thus determining the type of high you experience. Sativa is kind of a depressant where as indica is more of a narcotic in the sense that it makes you trip a bit and it feels alot better(thus your giggle grass). It always seemed that the metal heads like to blow there brains out on the sativa where as me and my friends would get high and go to a jazz festival.

[Zuni]

46. I disagree

Sativas are less incapacitating, but more uplifiting.
Indicas are more powerful but tend to blitz you out.

[Intelsucks]

5. You ought to see them 'open the drawer' in Amsterdam at the coffee shop

variety, variety, variety. They have bubblegum flavored hash. I'm not kidding.

[Character Assassin]

6. There are three genera in the family Cannabis

And their potency hasn't really changed, like their respective effects.

A. Cannabis Sativa
Originated and grown primarily in more equatorial areas (Panama Red, anyone?) and with its THC composition gets one 'high', which can manifest itself in feeling energetic, creative and is associated more with the head.

B. Cannabis Indica
Originated and grown primarily in more temperate areas (more northernly latitudes) and its THC composition gets one 'stoned', more associated with a 'body' high, akin to what people label 'knock-out' pot.

At the moment the name of the third genus escapes me.

Suffice it to say that the two main types have been so interbred by indoor growers over the past 30 years as to make pure 'strains' very, very rare.

[chookie]

9. Thanks, Professor!

I knew that growers were developing different strains, but I actually had no idea until you and others here pointed out that there are different *species* of marijuana.

Thank you for your authoritative botanical explanation. It was extremely useful in answering my question.

[Wcross]

13. I think its just the two you mentioned n/t

[Intelsucks]

18. I agree. I've only heard of Indica and Sativa as well.

I learned what I know from Ed Rosenthal aka Mr. High Times. ;-)

[Character Assassin]

19. Ah, know I remember: cannabis ruderalis

Don't know why I forgot about it.

[salin]

41. ruderalis?

geeeeez I have to contain myself... but I can't... could this be what is making the rounds on Bay Area highways and the GDPrimary forum?

[Character Assassin]

45. No, sorry, but it's extremely low-content THC. It wouldn't get you high

And it's extremely uncommon in this part of the world.

[salin]

52. CA... I am surprised at you

that you didn't realize my focusing on the root of the word regarding my comment (eg rude drivers in the Bay Area and ... well you get the drift). You are usually so quick on the uptake!

[arcos]

20. no, there's a third...

but it is not smoked because its THC level are very, very low.

I don't remember its name either.

[Intelsucks]

22. Hemp? Very low THC.

n/t

[arcos]

38. no, hemp is not a type of cannabis...

hemp is the fiber of the cannabis plant.

[arcos]

39. ok, just found a link...

apparently these third type is "debated".

"Cannabis ruderalis is a debated third variety of cannabis found in Russia, Poland, and other eastern Europen countries. Schultes classified cannabis as having three species: sativa, indica, and ruderalis based on the formation of the seed pods. There is some debate as to whether there is justification for this third category. Some features of ruderalis are large seeds, short weedy plants (4-6 feet tall) and a lower level of thc than sativas or indicas."

http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_info6.shtml

[Occulus]

Would you say it's time to name a new plant, then?

Just wondering.

[kixot]

7. Here's a shot.

1) Some people enjoy being "stoned" or so high the render themselves retarded. It's a sort of blissful state where emotional anxiety can't reach you. So in a sense it is like the opium den effect.

2) Trafficking has become increasingly risky though I think the enrichment of the plant has come due more to the tastes of the smoker for stronger plants that don't require as much to smoke to get desired effects and also for plants that grow under more diverse conditions.

3) Lower grade plants still exist and can be found in most urban areas but those tend to be the more sledge hammer effect type of smoke. It may just be that you and your friends just happened to react that way to the same type of stuff you see regularly, it's effects can change as one gets older. That's why many hard core smokers just up and quit cold turkey sometimes because they just don't get the same thrill.

I hope this helps.

[chookie]

15. You raised an interesting point

You wrote that weed's effect can change as one gets older.

After I had smoked for a few years, I found myself NOT enjoying it. It made me paranoid, very unusual for me (before Bush) whereas I am characteristically blissfully unaware of bad intentions of others. It was weird, because it used to be so much fun, and then it got nasty. I discussed this with a few other people my age at the time, and they likewise admitted that they had stopped because it was making them paranoid and a little nutty. I always wondered why that was -- why my reaction to it changed, OR simply if it was the chemistry of the weed that was going around, because people were boasting about having gotten stuff from Colombia or Hawaii, and that it was these strains that were unpleasant to me.

Maybe it is something biochemical, like Bi-Polar II (disease presents itself only after the use of certain drugs), and that there is variation in human brain types, so people like me want to stop, whereas I know people who have smoked regularly for years without ill effects.

Thank you for your thought-provoking response.

[Ellen Forradalom]

40. Bipolar II

presents itself only after the use of certain drugs? I have BPII and this is the first I've heard anyone say such a thing. Where did you come across this notion?

[chookie]

51. I was describing a clinical subtype of BiPolar disorder

I'm afraid I do not have a copy of DSM-IV on hand, so I can't quote this info with the degree of accuracy I would like to.

There are major groups of BiPolar disorder, and within these groups there are distinctive subrgroups.

The subtype I was describing here presents like this: patient has history of depressive and (in retrospect) hypomanic episodes, depression predominating, and is usually diagnosed as unipolar depression. When certain drugs are taken -- which can include certain anti-depressants, or steroids -- a true manic episode results. When this occurs, it is evidence that the patient does not have a simple unipolar depression, but a subtype of BiPolar. True manic episodes do not occur spontaneously, as in BiPolar 1, but only as the result of the substance that had been taken, although hypomania can occur spontaneously in the absence of the substance. My recollection is that this form is/was termed BiPolar 2b.

An early indication of this subgroup of BiPolar disorder is a very rapid response to antidepressant medication. Instead of feeling better after a few weeks of treatment, which is typical, the individual responds in a matter of a few days.

If you are interested in the authoritative word on these subtypes, have a look in the DSM-IV, which lays them out fairly clearly.

Just so you don't think I am making this up out of whole cloth, here are some related discussions on these subtypes, including one that proposes drug-induced hypomania be termed BiPolar 3.

http://www.fortunecity.com/campus/psychology/781/dsm.htm
http://www.biopsychiatry.com/bipolar3.htm
http://www.biopsychiatry.com/maniadrug.htm

[TeacherCreature]

47. marijuanna is a stimulant

It is and always has been a stimulent. This is why people get paranoid and nutty. Take the pulse of anyone who is high and you will find that their pulse and resperation is in most cases elevated.

[CrownPrinceBandar]

49. Yeah...

I have also seen it work as a depressant. Myself, I have smoked some strains and have bounced off the walls. Then there are others that compel me to be a total introvert and get real bashful in social situations.

[Nikia]

8. I suppose some people like being zombies

I prefer not to smoke to that point. I have what I term "one hit too many" which I don't like as much as I do as the feelings I feel if I hadn't smoked too much. There have been too times that I smoked way too much and would have panicked if I wasn't in a safe situation and reassured that no one has died from weed and that the feeling would wear off in hours. Of course, alcohol can do that too. Some people like a slight buzz and stuff people like being completely wasted.
There are many different varieties. It is important to keep that in mind. If it is "good stuff", take a couple hits and then wait to avoid smoking a lot too fastand become a zombie.

[jonnyblitz]

10. I find people who are drinking much much more annoying and

stupid acting or whatever than people who are stoned. The people I know who smoke pot don't seem any different to me whether they are stoned or not.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

11. Ditto

can we say "ditto" on DU? :D

[Capn Sunshine]

54. yes but you'll get a suspicious "hmmmmmmm" from me

several "new" posters have posted "dittos" to applaud someone. Old habits die hard it would seem.

The way I always understood the genus debate:

old world: Cannibis sativa indicus

New world: Cannibis sativa americanus

Indicus was the primary source for hashish and other "extract" type drugs. Known for it's physical effects, including near sedation.

Americanus was the psychoactive one, which some called giggle weed here. Actual THC count lower. This was the stuff most boomers smoked until grwoing technology progressed inthe 70's and "seedless" culturations produced similar products to indicus buds. Todays pots are all hybrids with varying results.

The main reason you find pot so strong these days is economics; competetion for the same dollar with other drugs together with smuggling and production costs, you want as much bang for the buck you can get , so almost universally the pot grown is the monster killer nail you to the floor variety.

:smoke:


:hippie:

[chookie]

21. I totally agree!

You raised an excellent point. There is no question -- people who are really high are not obnoxious or difficult. I have never met or even heard of a "mean smoker."

On the other hand, people who are really drunk are awful -- belligerant, ignorant, lewd, rude, inconsiderate, etc etc etc. Some people get weepy, some people get mean, some people get violent -- drinking alcohol is a far more serious social problem than smoking marijuana.

[Ellen Forradalom]

42. A friend of mine who quit drinking but kept smoking

once told me, "Alcohol is such a destructive drug. If you smoke pot, you never have to call the party host the next day to apologize, saying, 'I'm sorry I spent the evening watching the fish tank. I was stoned.'"

[Cooley Hurd]

12. Personally, I enjoy maintaining a modest buzz throughout the evening...

As with anything, the more you do, the more wasted you are. I generally buy cannabis indica, which tends to be a bit more potent than your run-of-the-mill weed that you find native to North America (and out on the streets).

Once all my chores are completed for the evening and I'm ready to relax, I'll smoke one bong hit every two hours to "maintain." That way, my buzz is maintained at a state which allows me to remain functional, but still high enough to be able to laugh at Sponge Bob...

[jonnyblitz]

14. sigh...I sure miss Amsterdam....n/t

[chookie]

24. On Marijuana and chores

It sounds like you have a happy life -- thanks for sharing an endearing story about how lovely weed can be.

You said "after chores." Yikes. Marijuana has a REALLY weird effect on me. I am a naturally untidy person, with a superhuman capacity to function well in conditions of disorder. I don't notice it, truly, I do not. Mess is invisible to me.

But when I get high, I look around at how I live and freak out -- "Oh GOD -- what a MESS!! How can I live like this??? Aaaaaargh!!!" -- and then I go on an energetic cleaning crusade -- which dissipates as soon as the high does.

Jeez -- maybe I should keep some on hand to improve my housekeeping!

Weird!

[short bus president]

33. Hehe...

I built a shelf in my laundry room the other day in one of those fits of productivity. Go figure.

[CrownPrinceBandar]

35. Like your sig.

"Ohhh... They forgot the victim child!" - classic!

[Wcross]

16. Great place to learn about mary-jo-wanna

http://www.overgrow.com/

Marijuana is against the law because it is hard to tax.

[jonnyblitz]

17. If the people at the party who smoked were drinking on top of it

THAT could have a lot to do with their catatonic state . If I do both I can count on NOT remembering a damn thing the next day. I prefer not to drink and haven't for a long time. My body rejects alcohol.

[THUNDER HANDS]

23. I can only speak from personal experience

But I've seen the different "types" and the the low-grade, schwag stuff usually just makes me paranoid and gives me a headache.

I don't know what pot looked like when you were my age (I'm 25) but the stuff I get is a very light green with orange hairs and little crystals on them. I only get it in bud form, not in block form where it's all flat and squished together with seeds and stuff.

And, I like getting zonked out, it helps when you just want to concentrate on one thing - like listening to music or watching a movie or tv.

And I think stuff is more powerful today because you basically have chemists moonlighting as pot growers now. :) From what I've been told, just your everyday-average stuff is 10x as potent as it was in the 60's.

And to answer your last question - I don't know. I stopped laughing and giggling after smoking pot after about the third time I did it.

[RandomKoolzip]

25. That's why I switched to huffing scotchgard...

Pot just wasn't doing it for me anymore.

No, really, I just quit smoking weed. I've always been overweight, and I am now on the Atkins Diet. I don't want the sugar/carb cravings weed induces in me.

Y'know, several times in high school and beyond, I was getting unpleasant reactions to THC, and everytime, I'd continue smoking the shit...I don't know why, I guess I thought it was just a passing thing, and usually I was right.

Then I started having panic attacks in 1998 and quit for a few years. Last year I started smoking again, and I found I really enjoyed it. But I also found that I was putting on weight again, after slimming down during my panic attack years. Now, I just want to live a clean and clear life without intoxicants or distractions, and get healthy.

And I HATE alcohol......can't stand the stuff.

[THUNDER HANDS]

26. is it odd not to get the munchies after smoking?

I've actually lost a good deal of weight while smoking. I never get the munchies and I'm glad, because I think eating kills your buzz.

[Intelsucks]

28. I never get the munchies either.

I did in the early days... The first few times... Maybe everyone is different in that respect.:shrug:

edit: short term memory loss, and keyboard fat-finger.

[RandomKoolzip]

29. Well, I was a carb addict before I was a smoker....

So I guess the two, for me, go hand in hand.

But, yes, I suppose it IS kind of unusual for you to not get the munchies, because everyone I ever smoked with would ALWAYS get hungry and order a pizza after we smoked.

I consistently found myself craving sweets and fried foods when stoned. 'Swhy I gotta stop.

[Intelsucks]

30. Good for you. I wish I hated alcohol as you do.

Been drinkin' too much for too many years.

[THUNDER HANDS]

31. I loved pomegranates

My favorite thing to eat stoned. :D

[RandomKoolzip]

34. Onion rings....oh god, I'd kill for some onion rings.....

Fried starchy things are my downfall.

[liberalhistorian]

27. I can't answer your questions,

because each of the times I tried pot it didn't do anything but make me royally sick, lol! I tried it several times in my "youth", around twenty years ago or so, just to see what all the fuss was about. I felt really sick each time, like a massive hangover. Maybe my body just doesn't react well to it, obviously.

My best friend had cancer, though, and smoked it to feel better, it apparently worked. She's much better now and doesn't smoke it anymore, but she swears it saved her.

[chookie]

36. Weed is merciful

I know people who have had to endure cancer and its agonizing treatments, and marijuana has seemed like a Grace from God. Couple of puffs, and agony is gone. I've heard that from patients, and from doctors, and from people who work in hospises, who have a reverance for the way it can deliver people from intense suffering.

It is a great treatment for nausea. It's appetite-increasing effects are also a mercy for people who have lost weight due to serious illness.

It is revolting that Clarence Thomas wrote that "other treatments should be used" when weed does such a great job for seriously ill people. And that Pharisee Ashcroft should be ashamed and disgraced for his persecution of medical marijuana use.

It is incomprehensible that these bastards in our government should be persecuting this harmless drug which has clear benefits to seriously ill people, just because -- HEAVEN FORBID! -- it might provide them with a little bit of euphoria along with alleviation of nausea.

[liberalhistorian]

53. You are so correct,

and there simply are no words to describe my utter and total disdain, disgust, and contempt for ASSkroft and the Bushistas for their bullshit persecution, harassment, jailing, and horrendous treatment of people whose only crime was to become seriously ill and to smoke pot to relieve their symptoms. I've seen how it's helped people I know with serious illnesses, like my friend, and it infuriates me to no end that harmless, ill people who only want to relieve their suffering are being raided and jailed, without access to pot or most other effective medicines.

[CrownPrinceBandar]

32. Hey Chookie! Thanks for the interesting topic of conversation.

I hear ya when you talk about having to give it up as it makes a person behave differently. I think, in large part, that we smoke weed for different reasons when we get older. I never was really DRAWN to alcohol, even as a youth. So naturally the nest thing on the hit parade for me was weed. And I liked it. I know when I was in college that weed was truly a mind-expanding experience. I remember being stoned and having boundless creativity and inspiration. However, the creativity has been replaced by the use of marijuana for more mercenary reasons, like to alleviate boredom.

I think we all get paranoia (especially these days), and the weed may not be cause, but it doesn't help the problem either. Societal prohibitions don't help either. Maybe there's a certain personality type that's attracted to weed? I hate to generalize like that, but how is it that you find that fellow weed smokers can pick each other out in a crowd? Its happened to me countless times. Even during times when I wasn't smoking or "looked" like I did?

Anyway, the upshot is that the drug laws in this country are fucked. I don't need to tell you how much money is wasted by jailing first-time offenders. Not to mention the jail space taken by drug offenders that would be better served by locking up violent thugs.

Maybe someday we'll get our priorities straight and put Federal money where it belongs. Like social security, education, health care. Unimportant stuff like that.

Oh well, I think I need some weed after the crushing defeat handed to WVU today. To ease the pain, you know.

[mike_c]

37. read "The Botany of Desire" by Michael (?) Pollen....

The real winner of the war on drugs was Cannibis. Dude, I remember $20.00 ounces and joints the size of cigarillos just to get a basic buzz. Midwestern ditch weed. Those days are gone. Thankfully.

[Ellen Forradalom]

43. Ha!

You're a kid! I remember fifteen-dollar lids! Midwestern ragweed, indeed.

[NoPasaran]

50. Oh you kids

Ten dollar lids back in the day. Remember Cheech and Chong's Big Bambu?

[Kat45]

44. I remember those too.

Not to mention the homegrown that took even more to get that buzz on.

[truthspeaker]

48. not just getting older, but how much you smoke

I hardly ever get the giggles anymore like in the old days. But I don't think it's the bud that's changed, it's getting high so often has changed how I react to it.

I have also heard tell that all the side effects - lethargy, munchies, paranoia, anxiety - can vary depending on what strain you are smoking. Some people claim the "fire" (light green, crystally, very aromatic) does not give you the munchies nearly as much. Hard to tell. I might have to go to Amsterdam and do some research - smoke a different variety every day and write down how I feel. All in the name of science, of course.

According to Botany of Desire, virtually all cannabis available in North American are sativa/indica hybrids (cannabis sativaXindica). BTW that's a great book, not just for those interested in weed. The section on potatoes has some eye-opening information about GMOs and modern farming methods, and the chapters on tulips and apples are very interesting for anyone into economics, agriculture, or both.