someone close to me tried to commit suicide

[Cheswick2.0]

I should be very upset and worried, but I mostly feel pissed off. I seem to have lost any ability to feel grief or even sympathy.

What do you think, is suicide selfish? For those of you that have children, would you do it? I ask, because even though I thought of doing it several times in my life, I never did because I could not leave that burden on my children.
I don't get it.

[Gingersnap]

1. anger is a normal response

I had an uncle commit suicide a few years ago and the reaction of his wife and adult and teenage children was anger and then sadness. His wife in particular was angry for a long long time. I had a little more distance, so I felt compassion but what got me was thinking of how his children must have felt.

I'm sorry to hear your news. I hope whoever it is is getting the support they need.

[Cheswick2.0]

5. thank you

yes the person is, she is an alcoholic and has been for many years. She is good, really good, at convincing people she is fine. The amazing thing is that after downing a bottle of pills, she convinced the psych consult that she was okay! DUH! Luckily her son was able to convince them that they should keep her for a few weeks. Who knows if it will do any good.

I think this person needed help years ago and is too deep in denial, about her life, to face her issues. In addition to that she is in a lot of physical pain from a bad back and hip replacement.

[ScreamingMeemie]

2. All I can say is my husband found his father---a life long alcoholic...

dead of gunshot wound to the head (the messiest kind) on Father's Day of 2000. It's extreme selfishness, but also extreme pitifulness. That he could not see how much we loved and needed him is the worst part. No the worst part is that I cannot convince my husband that he was a good son, and this wasn't his fault.

Children, no matter what age, should never have to be subjected to that kind of intense emotional pain. The moment lives on in their lives forever.

I understand why you are pissed, and it's okay. We were, and still are pissed a lot of the time. I would have loved for my son to have known his Grandpa, but he was robbed of that.

[Cheswick2.0]

7. On Fathers day?

Good Lord, how awful for you all.

[ScreamingMeemie]

14. It was actually sometime in the week before Father's Day, but my

husband stopped in on Father's Day and found him. We don't celebrate Father's Day too strenuously around here anymore.:(

[Ellen Forradalom]

3. Suicide (and attempts) are very hard on loved ones

I think it's normal to feel pissed off, particularly if this was someone you depend upon.

[Clete]

4. I would be pissed off too.

However, you need to get that person into mental health care as soon as possible because they are beyond thinking about selfish. I don't think of it as a selfish act anymore but a desparate one that we, who wouldn't think of doing something like, don't understand. This is about all I can really offer on this having known people who attempted suicide and knowing that at the time they weren't thinking rationally.

It is normal to be angry, but move on from there and try to understand why it happened.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

6. I understand your anger...

For people like you and me, suicide would be the ultimate selfish act.

For those who attempt it, however, I think the concept of selfishness eludes them. These are mentally ill people who require treatment to get beyond their deep despair. Even when loved ones encourage them to seek help; they can't see this as an act of love or understand their self-worth without medication and/or therapy.

I'm sorry that you're burdened with this. I hope your friend rcovers soon.

~hugs~

[nuxvomica]

8. If your friend had a heart attack would you feel pissed?

Suicide is the result of a disease. This is not the act of a healthy person. Remember that depression takes many forms and some are fatal. For some folks, suicidal thoughts are dismissed because of a sense of duty while for others, they are acted out like a compulsion. Neither form is determined by character so much as by the nature of their disease.
When my best friend committed suicide years ago and I was angry briefly. That was soon replaced by guilt because I hadn't taken his overtures seriously. Now I understand that what drives these things is an illness that distorts ordinary life into an unbearable horror.

[SyracuseDemocrat]

9. Well...

suicide is not chosen, it happens when pain exceeds resources for coping with pain. It IS an illness like people have said above, and people who consider it are not thinking rationally. I understand how and why you feel angry, Cheswick, but no one can really know what is going on in someone's head when they are considering suicide. Suicidal people can feel alone, rejected, and sometimes they just want to talk to someone. They want to feel loved, needed, and they want to know that they have friends. I'm no psychiatrist, but I have had friends close to me attempt to commit suicide before, and one girl that I knew very well actually did succeed. She hung herself in her room one evening, and she was found there hours later. Suicide took the lives of 29,350 Americans in 2000, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. There were more homicides than suicides, and the numbers for suicide are just staggering. I don't want to go off on a rant here, but gays and lesbians are many times more likely to commit suicide, and this needs to be addressed, not just for them, but for everyone. I don't know if you folks know about the Yellow Ribbon campaign, but they are dedicated to fighting suicide and helping people around the globe, especially teens. The website is:

http://www.yellowribbon.org

I am not sure what else to say to you, Cheswick, only that I am glad that this person close to you did not succeed in their attempt and that I hope they never try this again. Most people who have tried it once will try it again, sadly, but there are treatments. Antidepressant medications are available, and there are neurological treatments, and of course psychoanalysis.

Take care, friend. :)

[DemExpat]

12. My brother -in-law killed himself in December

shot himself in the head......6 weeks after HIS Dad killed himself the same way. He left 4 children from 8 - 28 years old to deal with this unbearable fact.
Johnny was also in therapy and on anti- D's for years for depression.....

I'm horrified for his kids, but also at the lack of help he had from treatment.

DemEx

[davsand]

22. Horrified at the lack of treatment in our area.

We did an intervention on a man who was going into full blown meltdown. He was talking about suicide, and was in a horrible place mentally. He was willing to get treatment for his depression, however, the local mental health program couldn't get him in to see anyone for at least three weeks. They said that unless he signed himself into a facility he'd have to wait...

Many people are not willing, at that point, to either sign themselves into a facility OR to wait three weeks to talk to someone. We were very lucky to know a private physician who was willing to take the man on as a patient in spite of the fact that he had no insurance and no money. He got some drugs and was able to hold it together and start regular therapy.

He is now back to a reasonably stable world--no thanks to our local mental health facility.

I have to wonder at our system, and its lack of understanding of the real issues that people face. You are SO right when you talk about the lack of treatment.

Laura

[sweetheart]

10. pissed off... ?

Certainly i plan to ultimately leave by suicide, but it will look like an accident when that occurrs... as i have no plans to die in some hospital, so while i can still walk as a free spirit, i'll be away off some cliff somewhere.... they'll find me missing and maybe never find my body... but those who would notice will know.

My religion says not the state of mind you die in, is the one you reincarnate in, and to die depressed and morbid is a ticket to a lower birth like in an american ghetto. Certainly, i would rather die consciously and leave everything for a long moment of recapitulation... to surrender all that this body loves... and in that peace... the end of just another life.

Another option if i'm really feeling heroic is an immolation suicide on the steps of capital hill, like some heroic buddhists in viet nam protesting a sick evil america... but they'd probably arrest me as a terrorist in my gasoline-drenched clothes. :-)

The only thing i would NEVER do, is *fail* to committ suicide. Methinks that is a cry for attention, something quite different. As i have a typical american's ability to provide for my old age (none), when i stop working i'll jump. There is nobody to stick around for, and certainly the world does not need another liberal mouth that refuses to wear slave chains. I relate to rambo in this monologue at the end of "first blood" and like the replicant rutger hauer "i've seen things..... time to die." To become wise and funny in our culture is to become disenfranchised, and rather than be a burden, why be around when no element in the culture will employ one.

I'm not suicidal, just practical... no hurry, no worries... the sun sets at the end of the day, its hardly something to be angry about.

[DemExpat]

13. It's only something to be angy about to the loved ones

you leave behind, abandon, desert.

If you confide in them and share your plans then it might be OK, a consensus for euthanasia, but otherwise, it is betrayal IMO.

DemEx

[noiretextatique]

11. i was angry when a friend killed herself

ar first...then i came to understand she just couldn't bear to live with her pain. i have another friend who attempted it once...she's doing ok now, but she says it's always an option for her. another friend attepted several times (terrible abuse whe she was a child), but thank goodness, she hasn't tried it in several years. there are probably a few others...i'm too tired to think right now. anger is normal...you will get over the anger.

you can provide support and encourage, but the choice to live...she has to make that herself.

[Loonman]

15. Not sure about selfish

But it is a big cop out.

Leaving other people to deal with your problems, 'cuz now you're dead.

[qb]

16. I attempted suicide as a teenager

I felt such incredible shame over something I had done I couldn't bear the thought of facing anyone after they found out. I felt trapped in a well of despair and thought suicide was the only way out. It never occurred to me that my family would be utterly devastated.

What had I done? I was a straight A student who got caught forging notes so I could skip my morning classes and sleep in. Big deal, huh?

When I was depressed, little things seemed insurmountable. My mind focused on them to the exclusion of everything else.

I'm not trying to excuse my actions - they were incredibly selfish. It just didn't occur to me at the time.

Luckily, I got a month of very good in-patient treatment along with a lot of follow-up outpatient sessions and am doing fine now.

[trof]

20. Those damn hormones.

And emotions are SO strong when you're young.
At 17 I was going to run away and join the Navy because a girl I liked spurned my trooo luuuv.
Jesus H. Christ. What a maroon.
Sometimes I wonder how anyone makes it through teen and young adult years.
Glad you're still with us.
All seem kinda silly now, hunh?
:hi:

[soleft]

17. I know someone who had to talk to priest after 9/11

because she couldn't reconcile that the people who jumped from the towers were going to hell as a result of their suicides.

The thing is, there are as varied reasons people committ suicide as there are varied types of people. Some people find themselves in a sudden unbearable situation, either they've caused a terrible tragedy and cannot live the guilt, or they suddenly face financial ruin, or have their hearts broken and cannot imagine ever getting past the problem or the pain, so tho they are not depressed, take their lives in much the same way one committs a crime of passion. To me that's very tragic because if they could have just waited a little longer, life circumstances have a way of changing. Maybe they are predisposed to have a low tolerance for grief.

I know of a family where the son had suffered from depression for many long torturous years and tho the family grieved to lose him, they understood why he chose to leave this life.

People with terminal illnesses, painful conditions, disabilities, many people champion their right to die.

So as there are so many varied reasons for suicide, there will also be varied reactions. We all relate to abandonment, do when someone takes their life and leaves behind grieving loved ones, it seems natural that they will feel angry and we'll identify with that anger. When someone chooses to separate themselves from us, for whatever reason, it's always painful.

Maybe it's best not to judge those either those who are unable to withstand unbearable pain or those who feel the anger of being abandoned.

Check that - one type of person I do judge - is the one who decides to end their own life and decides to end others at the same time.

[thermodynamic]

18. My perspective

If my death were to advance a cause or make life better for my fellow Americans, I'd do it. There is nothing selfish about it. Indeed, I have issues with people who prefer to grow old and vegetate away. I don't want to end up in a state where I'd envy a vegetable, I'd rather die knowing there was a purpose that helped people. And if our society did cherish life, they'd read any such suicide note and strive to make changes. (but as we all know, the point in American society is to make money and nothing more, so my ideals are nutty in the extreme.)

I have no children, and I don't want children because (a) I want to spend my time for other (including political) causes and not letting children be the catalyst for unsavory elements to take over and (b) I know I'm not psychologically fit to be a parent so please don't bash me for not being able to raise a child properly. My taxes, of which I voted for the school levies and such, are the best I can do.

[bleedingheart]

19. I was very angry at my brother for his two suicide attempts

but never let him know...

it put our family through the ringer... my poor mom was upset for over a year over it...

In the end he did get the help he needed but I still worry about him.

[smirkymonkey]

21. I have always hated the selfish label for those who commit suicide

I mean, mourning the loss of a loved one is really about one's own pain. Instead of trying to understand the suicidal person, they immediately judge the act in terms of how THEY feel.

Most suicidal people are beyond questioning the impact of their actions - they just don't see any other way, or else they would take it. Severe depression is a mental illness, which is unfortunately still stigmatized in this culture ("get over it", "pull yourself up by your bootstraps," etc.) I think people are projecting their own guilt and selfishness on to the one who committed suicide.

It's a natural reaction (if I had a dime for everytime someone said "It's so selfish!" everytime this subject came up....) for people to be angry, but they have to realize that their reaction really has more to do with them than it does about the deceased.

[Cheswick2.0]

23. thank you all

I would like to thank you for all you different perspectives. I am starting to feel less angry. I am starting to feel sad and worried instead.

Let me share a little story.

After my first son was born (I was 23) I started having S-Ventricular Tachycardia. At first it only happened once every few years. Then after a few years they became more freq.

It was in the 1980s and the doctors then attributed the attacks to stress. Now we do Ablations (I had the procedure about 18 months ago) and realize that many people have this condition because they have too many nerve endings in their heart. We realize that those extra nerve endings respond to caffeine, cold medicine, normal adrenaline fluxuations, chemical smells...all kinds of things. We no longer tell people "it is all in their head".

But it 1986, when I was in a lousy marriage with an abusive husband, and isolated from my family, all my dreams, ambitions and talents dispised and resented, toxic in-laws..... having doctors tell me I was crazy was the last thing I needed.

I had plenty of reasons to be crazy, but I knew that the attacks were as likely to happen when I was humming along and cleaning the bathroom as when I was stressed or upset.

So I developed agoraphobia. It had me for several months and I was so ashamed, but mostly I was terrified. My younger son was not yet in Kindergarten and my older was in 2nd grade. I was so depressed. All I thought about was killing myself. The fear was unbearable. I was afraid to sit down, to stand back up or to look out the window. (funny, but as soon as they recorded the bad heart rhythm on a monitor, my panic and agoraphobia disapeared)

I wondered how I could kill myself without getting found and saved, yet not so early in the day that my four year old would be in danger. I couldn't do it, I couldn't risk his safety.

When I think of it now, I have no doubt my older son would have followed me 6-10 years later. I am grateful that something stopped me. I spent years digging myself out of that hole and did it all the while other people were shoveling the dirt back on top of me as fast as they could.

I think this is where my resentment comes from, and I know it is judgemental.... but damn, just once I would like someone in my life to be tougher than I am.

You have all helped me work on that feeling of resentment and I am gratified and informed by your responses.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

24. I'm glad you dug yourself out...

Maybe you can help your friend dig him/her self out.

[Nikia]

25. Let your friend know that you care

You probably do, but it does help. I have had problems with depression and like you, I did not kill myself because I thought of my loved ones. Sometimes, it can seem like no one cares and a depressed person may use this feeling to fuel their suicidal desires. I know that it is not possible to always be there. If your friend is suicidal, he/she does need some major help. Keep letting your friend know that you care though and that at least one person would terribly miss him/her if he/she died.