So I'm making my very first loaf of homemade bread.

[Occulus]

I have discovered "The Joy of Cooking"- both the book, and the hobby- and decided to try some homemade Rustic French Bread (pp. 603-604 in the hardcover, 75th anniversary edition).

My dough was sticky when it shouldn't have been- maybe Ididn't have my hands sufficiently floured. I had to add a LOT more bread flour to the risen dough while kneading than I thought I would (the recipie did call for more flour as needed). Once I allowed the four round loaves I ended up with to rise to double their size, they touched on the baking sheet and I had to handle the finished dough. I ended up folding the loaves in half before putting them into the oven; I had to, or they would have cooked together.

I can smell them, though, and it smells lovely. I guess I'll know when they're doneand cooled. This should be about five mintues from now. :D

I used the same book to make a batch of baklava for my sister's Christmas party, and it turned out wonderful tasting, if rather unimaginitive-looking. I plan on doing fun things with the dough the next time I make a batch.

Wish me luck!

(I'd post in the cooking forum, but my donor status has lapsed and I've been plain lazy about sending in another one. I'll be a good do-bee tomorrow, I promise :) )

[Rabrrrrrr]

1. Mmm... I love making homemade bread! I love kneeding, and the smell of yeast

as it rises, the punching down... great stuff!!

Sadly, I don't often have time for it, so the bread machine has made all my homemade bread the last couple years.

I do make a challah soon again, though - since I moved out of NYC I haven't had any, and I miss it.

Congratulations on making your first loaf!! You'll get better over time with the flour thing - that's a tricky tightrope to walk between not enough and too much.

[Occulus]

2. I didn't punch it.

Hmm.

But then, the recipie didn't say to do so. Then AGAIN.... the bread section of the book mentions it, but not for every single time I make dough. Hmm, again.

This will take practice, that's for certain. Time to find out what's what- the timer just went off! :)

[Rabrrrrrr]

3. If not punched, at least it should be deflated through a second quick kneeding

It redistributes the yeast evenly through the dough.

I don't think it would have any effect on the stickiness of the dough, though. That sounds more like a not-enough flour problem.

[Occulus]

5. That's what I thought.

I kept adding flour until it didn't stick to my fingers and still took the dough off the bowl. That seemed to be the gist of the recipie.

Here they are. It's a bit blurred- my camera doesn't have that anti-blur tech built in- but you'll get the idea:



Like I said, next time I'm only doing two thick loaves. I like bigger pieces :)

[Maddy McCall]

10. I had no idea what you were talking about...

but I did a google and just got back from the grocery store with yeast and flour. I'm going to try my hand at challah tonight! (I read that it's only to be made on Thursday, and I'm not a Jew, so you don't think I'll go to hell for making it on a Tuesday do you??)

:hi:

[Occulus]

13. IsTHAT what I made?

Oh Lord Jesus. I'm damned forever :cry:

It came out very crusty, and moist and chewy in the middle. I gather from the recipie that that's the correct result. Took a day and a half, though... literally. I let the first rise happen in the refrigerator, because I did the yeast/flour mix last night. It rose properly, both times, but my baking sheets were too small, and the third rise (after the kneading and standing in the oiled bowl) made them sort of congeal together, so I folded them over and rolled each loaf a little to reduce the volume. Since I didn't punch the dough after the second rise, this ended up being an appropriate thing to do.

They turned out great, and I can't wait to get a block of cheese to go with. Add a little wine... :9 Tasty!

(Yes, I have simple tastes. I'm easy to satisfy :) )

[Rabrrrrrr]

19. Make some French Toast out of it - you'll never use regular bread again.

WooooooW!

I've never heard of only making it on a Thursday - certainly one cannot make it on the Sabbath, but I never heard of a proscription against making it on any other day.

And for violating a Jewish law, you can only go to Sheol. The Jewish "hell" and the Christian Hell are different. But as a Gentile, you can't be held guilty for violating any Jewish law, because those laws apply only to Jews (also a different concept than many Christians have about violating religious "law").

[China_cat]

4. You'll find that the level of humidity will have a big

influence on how much flour you need to use.

When you finish kneading the dough it should be smooth and bouncy and should have taken anywhere from 7 to 15 minutes to get that way. The doughs should be punched down between risings if there is more than one...except for the last one before the oven...and the second kneading should make the dough satiny smooth.

I'd have started with an easier bread but jumping in with both feet can't hurt.

[Occulus]

6. The bread turned out to be a bit chewy.

It's done, but I think it could have stood to have five more minutes or so. The outside was getting a bit done when I took them out, though... it's definitely a bit hard to cut through. Oh, it's tasty, but heavy, and somehow I doubt that's how it was supposed to turn out.

Of course, I had a piece while the loaf was still warm. Maybe that has something to do with it? Do they perhaps have to cool completely to not end up being a little chewy? Or is that how "Rustic French Bread" comes out?

Tasty, but a little heavy. Hmm. Maybe less flour next time? Or more, considering how dry it is in here?

ed.: Humidity reads at about 50% by my thermometer/barometer.

[China_cat]

8. It's probably heavy and chewy because you

handled it right before putting it in the oven and 'deflated' it a bit.

I've also found that most recipes overestimate the temp of the oven. Next time you try it, turn UP the oven 50 degrees more than called for, bake at this temp for about 10 minutes and then lower the temp to 50 degrees LESS than called for. The higher temp kills off the yeast action and the lower allows it to bake thoroughly without forming a really heavy crust and getting too dark. Bread is done when you tap the loaf on the bottom and it sounds hollow.

[Occulus]

9. You're right- I reread the recipie

It's SUPPOSED to be a little heavy, chewy, and sporting a dark, crunchy crust. In other words- I did it right! :D

As for the temp suggestion, I was thinking about exactly that. I madesome breaded cheese sticks last night according to the same book- but oil at the temp they specified almost SCORCHED the sticks. I had to pull them out much sooner than was stated.

I'll keep that in mind for whatever baking I do. I'm sure I'll find a happy medium at some point for recipies I use a lot.... and experience has no sunstitute.

Thanks for the advice! :)

[crispini]

7. Nice results!

May I suggest you check out the Tassajara Bread Book:

http://www.amazon.com/Tassajara-Bread-Book-Edward-Brown/dp/157062089X/sr=8-1/qid=1167785558/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/103-5356160-0944666?ie=UTF8&s=books

An absolutely lovely book that really is wonderful for baking. Mmmm, maybe I'll go bake something... 'tis the weather, after all!

[DemBones DemBones]

11. The Tassajara Bread Book and Tassajara Cook Book, which is

vegetarian recipes, are both really good. I'm glad to know they're still in print.

[Occulus]

14. Yes, I forgot to mention, there was no egg or milk in this

Only yeast, water, bread flour, and more bread flour. And more bread flour. And more....

[DemBones DemBones]

17. Most breads don't contain egg or milk.

Not kneaded breads, that is. Quick breads, like banana bread, do have egg and milk. Egg glazes are nice on braided breads, though, make them nice and shiny.

You'll be surprised at how the amount of flour needed differs with the weather. You can, by the way, make good bread with all purpose flour. My grandmother did so her whole life and I've been doing it for forty years. I never bought bread flour until I got a bread machine and the recipes insisted on it. (I got a bread machine when I was no longer physically able to knead dough. We also make bread in our Kitchenaid, using the dough hook.)

It's more FUN to knead the dough by hand, though, and you'll get a feel for it after a few batches. It sounds as if you didn't let your loaves rise before you baked them, which would have made them taller and less dense. It's pretty hard to go too far wrong with homemade bread, though; even a short loaf tastes good! :-)

[Occulus]

12. I was wrong. It came out right.

The recipie specifies a moist, chewy crumb and a crisp, crunchy crust- which is what I came out with. *I* thought it was a little bit heavy and chewy, but apparently, that's how it's supposed to be.

And it's really tasty, if I may say so myself :D

Thanks for the suggestion; I'll definitely take a look at it.

[rug]

15. Send billyskank the recipe.

[Occulus]

16. Done- verbatim, even!

Here's the recipie, for all those who might be curious what I made:

2 round loaves or thick baguettes or 4 thin baguettes

SPONGE STARTER
------ -------

1 cup worth of starter

Combine in a medium bowl and let stand until the yeast is dissolved, about 5 minutes:

1/2 cup lukewarm (100 deg. F) water
1/2 teaspoon active dry yeast

Add:

3/4 cup bread flour

Stir rapidly with a wooden spoon until you notice elastic strands pulling away from the sides of the bowl, about 2 minutes. Cover the bowl tightly with plastic wrap and let rise at room temperature until bubbly and tripled in volume, about 6 hours; or let rise for about 14 hours in the refigerator. (If the sponge has just come out of the refrigerator, use warm water <105 to 115 degrees F> for making the dough.)

END SPONGE STARTER
--- ------ -------

(A sponge starter can be used for several types of bread)

Pour the sponge into a large mixing bowl or the bowl of a heavy-duty mixer, and stir in:

2 cups room-temperature (72 to 75 degree F) water
4 1/2 cups bread flour, or as needed

Sprinkle in:

1 tbsp salt, preferably fine sea salt

Mix until the dough cleans the sides of the bowl. If necessary, adjust the consistency of the dough by adding flour or water. The dough should feel sticky to the touch but should not actually stick to your hands. Knead for about 10 minutes by hand, or with the dough hook on low to medium speed until the dough is smooth and elastic.

Transfer the dough to an oiled bowl and turn it once to coat with oil. Cover the bowl with plastic wrap and let rise until doubled in bulk, about 3 hours in a warm place (75 to 80 degrees F) or about 6 hours at cooler room temperature.

Divide the dough in half and shape into a round loaf (ball) or into thin baguettes (sticks or thick rods). Place the shaped loaves on 2 floured baking sheets. Cover with plastic wrap and let rise at room temperature until doubled in bulk, 2 to 4 hours.

Set the racks on the lower and center levels of the oven. Place a baking pan on the lower level. Preheat the over to 450 degrees F. If using a baking stone, preheat it on the center oven rack for 45 minutes.

Score the tops of the risen loves with a knife for decorative purposes. Place the loaves on the center rack. Pour 2 cups boiling water into the heated pan on the lower rack. Bake thin baguettes for about 30 minutes, thick baguettes for about 35 minutes, or round loaves for about 40 minutes. The loaves should be browned and the bottoms sound hollow when tapped; the internal temperature should be 210 degrees F. To further set the crust, turn off the oven and leave the baked loaves in the oven for 5 to 10 minutes.

Let cool completely on a rack.

MY experience:

The first rise went fine, but the kneading process to the second rise made the dough stick to my hands. I ended up using a good deal more bread flour than the recipie called for because of this; it may have had to do with humidity, or using too mnuch water initially; I'm unsure, as this was my very first try at any homemade bread (nothing like jumping in with both feet!!).

After the second rise (where you let it sit up to 14 hours in a refrigerator, which I did) you'll definitely want to thoroughly flour your hands and your work surface. Kneading the dough is fun; if it sticks to your fingers, flour them or (if necessary) the dough until it has the right consistency. One thing to be aware of: on the final rising, these WILL expand. Make sure each loaf has plenty of room to do so on the baking sheet without contacting another loaf of dough.

It doesn't seem to bother the final product to disturb the dough immediately prior to baking; if two loaves ARE in contact, simply fold them over onto themselves lengthwise, so they are just as long and half as wide. This will give the loaves room to expand while baking, but only do this just before putting them into the oven and only if the pan is too small for two loaves.

This recipie will produce a hard, dark crust and a moist, chewy center well suited to a short stint in the microwave and a good pat of butter.

ed.: changed a word.

[lildreamer316]

18. DAMN. Beat me to it.

Hell; just send him the bread.........