Funeral Traditions (not about Ford)

[RoyGBiv]

I suppose it could be about Ford if one so desired, but that's not my intent.

Up front, my purpose here is to ask about your expectations of what a funeral should be, how it should be conducted, and what kinds of traditions you have in your mind as appropriate for the rites associated with the end of a person's life. Do please feel free to be as detailed as you like because I'm truly interested.

This interest comes from two unrelated events that nonetheless took place in such close proximity in time so that my mind couldn't help but focus on them.

The first involves James Brown. Going to work the other day I heard a local radio talking head speaking sarcastically of the ceremony involved at James Brown's funeral. (I don't know the exact details of the funeral, only what I've heard from this talking head and another pair of talking heads who had an opposite opinion, so I'm not wanting to call into question the veracity of the details. For lack of a better phrase, it's the thought that counts with this.) Apparently Brown's funeral or memorial service or some event associated with those commemorating his life and noting his passing involved what amounted to a mimicking his stage show. That is, the clothing in which is body was dressed was changed several times, paying homage to the habit that was a part of his trademark "the hardest working man in show business." Also, a cape that was used in an archetypal James Brown scene was draped over his coffin to indicate the show was truly over. The talking head made fun of all this, which I found childish, so I changed the channel. To my surprise, the very same subject was being discussed on another show, and the pair that formed that station's morning team thought it only appropriate. I agreed, but then again I recognized from where the thoughts the other talking head had were originating. My culture frowns on such practices. My culture is fairly subdued, even morose, in its funeral customs.

The second event involves reading _The Innocent Man_ by John Grisham and preparing a review (a version of which I will post here eventually if anyone is interested) of the book from the perspective of someone who lived near and knew many of the people in the book. In this book, Grisham is writing about a town in which I lived for 30 years of my life. He goes into detail about people I knew. The church attended by the family of "the innocent man" and that man himself was the very church in which I was raised during my early years. Grisham writes of its traditions, most notably in this context its funeral traditions while describing the ceremony involved in laying to rest Debra Sue Carter, the girl who was murdered in Ada in 1982 and whose murder was pinned on the man who had attended the same church I had. Grisham writes of the murdered girl's mother having become all but catatonic in the wake of her child's death, and then he notes that the funeral rites were such that they "magnified" the pain and suffering by having the entire ceremony performed with an open casket, the face of the body open to view to all attendees.

The first thing I thought of this is that most of the churches in Ada, most some variant of Protestantism, all have a similar tradition. My Grandmother's casket was open during the funeral, and after the ceremony, those who chose to do so, mostly family and close friends, walked by and said their final goodbye to her. I broke down and had to be helped out of the building by a friend. My mother nearly came apart at the seams. Yes, it was brutal. It was also one brick in a long road of healing that would follow. It was expected.

This brought me back to the Brown funeral. Weren't the rites "expected" in his case as well? He *was* James Brown. I can think of no better ceremony surrounding the final passing of any individual than for his or her funeral to be accompanied by what was expected both by those who survived and by the person him or herself. I think James Brown would have approved, and obviously so did those close to him. My grandmother would have approved of her own funeral. She had insisted on no less when her sisters and brothers who died before her were laid to rest. They were dressed as they were most comfortable, most recognizable (my grandmother in her favorite type of housecoat), and the living were expected to see this.

But at the same time I became aware while considering this of my own ignorance other people's cultural traditions, and that's what it is in both cases, a cultural tradition, be it a large culture or a private one. As a person who considers himself a student of varied cultures, I am very ashamed to admit this aspect of culture has almost totally escaped by notice. I personally have never attended a funeral for anyone who did not grow up with my expected traditions and so have not experienced in person something as odd, to my culture's way of thinking, as having a cape draped across a casket in pantomime of a stage performance.

So, what are your thoughts on this, if any? What are your expected traditions involved with commemorating or celebrating those close to us who pass on before us?

(And, naturally, I've gone and made this too long, but so be it. I'm truly interested, and I wanted to explain in detail where my mind has gone and is going with this.)

[RoyGBiv]

1. Okay ...

I know it was long, and I know this is the Lounge, where a good, veiled sex thread is more welcome than anything, and I know I'm not a staple here, but still.

Nothing?

[Lyric]

2. We don't really have any traditions.

I have my own funeral planned out, right down to the poetry readings and song selections, though.

[RoyGBiv]

3. Open/Closed casket?

I suppose I could have shortened my inquiry to that question because that's what really shocked me into realizing my expected traditions are not universal.

I wouldn't know how to act at a "closed casket" funeral. I associate that with someone who was deformed in death to such an extent that showing the body would be considered grotesque.

[Lyric]

6. Open casket for natural deaths

closed casket for anything else.

My Dad's funeral was awful for me, because it was closed. There was no closure at all. Part of me had trouble accepting it when I couldn't *see* it.

[RoyGBiv]

10. That's my understanding ...

As noted below, the funeral is for the living. Seeing is the beginning of acceptance. The last time I saw my grandmother before she died, she was waving to me and smiling as she was wheeled into intensive care. If I had not seen her, as painful as it was, in that casket, in that housecoat ... It was hard enough as it was. I'd probably still be a total basket case if I hadn't been able to say goodbye in person.

[CC]

4. I was raised that a funeral

was a celebration of the person's life. So James Brown's was very appropriate for him. Most people here (North east MD) believe in open casket funerals and so did those I knew in Florida. There is a viewing before the memorial. My family doesn't believe this needs to be done and would rather not so we are odd ones out. Pretty much about everyone in the family has said, cremate me and be done with it, if you must have a party and have fun.:shrug: This sounds like a good plan until you have to deal with everyone else's feelings. When my son was killed and we started to plan what the family wanted but it freaked out a lot of his friends. We went ahead and did a viewing and all that for them to have a chance to say their good byes. We did keep it informal because of the age and ended up glad we did it the way we did for the kids. Most of the memorial was kids getting up and telling stories that had people laughing through their tears. I did put my foot down on the kids doing a big memorial at the crash site because it was too dangerous of an area to have kids gathered around.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

5. In my extended family

the tradition has been to have a wake with an open casket at the funeral home the night before the actual funeral. All kinds of people attend.

This is not as upsetting as it sounds, because the body in the casket is clearly not the same as the living person, more like a wax figure. I attended my first such wake at age 11, and although it was traumatic, I don't feel that I've suffered any long-term damage.

The day of the funeral, the casket is brought to the church and opened, either in a side room or up in front. However, according to Lutheran church practice, the casket must be closed during the service.

The casket is carried out after the service, and then we have a graveside committal, like what you see in the movies.

Afterwards, we have a meal in the church basement, followed by a party for the family and close friends at the home of one of the more distant relatives.

Among the older generation, viewing the body is considered very important. Some of them even take pictures of the body in the casket, which creeps me out, but may be a holdover from Victorian times.

However, most of the Episcopal funerals I've attended have been after cremation, and the ashes are up in front with photographs of the deceased. Our church as a columbarium, and after the service, the person's ashes are encrypted there. In 16 years of being an official Episcopalian, I've seen exactly one funeral with the casket present, and it was kept closed throughout.

[RoyGBiv]

9. That's very interesting ...

Thanks for the reply.

For a bit more on where I'm going with this, Grisham depicts this practice of "open caskets" as almost brutal, certainly something less that what the majority would considered civilized, and, at least by implication, an example of the brutish nature of the southern Oklahoma community and the churches that dominate it. This characterization shocked me for several reasons, not the least of which is that Grisham himself is a Southerner and so should have at least been exposed to this kind of tradition. However, he writes as though nothing of this kind had ever even occurred to him.

Perhaps I'm reading too much into it, but since this comes in the first chapter, the one that provides setting for the culture that is tied intimately to the events that occur throughout the story told in the book, I thought it was an important thing to note. "Body viewing" is, so I believed, a common tradition, regardless of the specific mechanism. You point to the wake tradition and note it is "not as upsetting as it sounds." To me, it doesn't sound upsetting at all. Hell, I sat with my grandmother's body, held her hand, straightened her hair, and sat beside her and talked, both "with" her and with my daughter, who "translated" what my grandma was saying to me. (Wise, imaginative child.) Dozens of others were around as this took place. When thinking on my own end, I've often thought I'd like to have my own cultural tradition modified for my personal service to use the wake kind of ceremony for the "viewing of the body" and then just be done with that body.

Anyway ... thanks again for your thoughts.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

11. Some say, "I want to remember what they were like when they were alive"

But you still do, even if you've seen their dead body. I still remember what my maternal grandparents, my maternal great-grandparents, and my father were like when they were alive, even though we had open-casket wakes for all five of them.

[FedUpWithIt All]

30. My father died in an accident so a closed coffin was necessary.

It was difficult for me to wrap my mind around the fact that he was in fact gone. Of course it could have been because of my age but i think part of the open casket issue is that it allows people to come to terms with the "departed" aspect of death.

[hickman]

7. The funeral is for the living.

The people mourning the loss. Talking heads make fun of everything because it sells. I don't read much news because of this. I'm sorry to hear that soulless bozos decided to make fun of James Brown's memorial service but it always to be expected. Cherish your cultural traditions.

[RoyGBiv]

12. That particular talking head ...

The guy to which I referred in the OP is a special kind of idiot.

He plays military theme songs each and every damned day at a certain time and goes on and on and on and on about "supporting the troops" and being respectful of our fighting men and women. (He at least includes "women" in the equation, which is a bit of a shock to me considering what a misogynist he is otherwise.) Yet when a funeral for a fallen soldier is in the news he never mentions it, except in the context of bashing "liberals" for trying to capitalize on the death of a soldier. On rare occasion he'll mention a name, but, again, usually in the context of liberal bashing.

[BarenakedLady]

8. We normally have a wake

Or a viewing. Usually open casket. Next day a small service in the chapel at the cemetary. Then invite people over for food.

What I want is for them to take anything from me they can use and be cremated.

Hell, dig a hole under a tree and throw me in for all I care (ala Six Feet Under)

[Skittles]

13. honestly I don't believe in funerals

I believe it when someone is dead, don't need any kind of "closure" and the idea of a dead body on display makes me sick. But, maybe that's just me.

[RoyGBiv]

14. Interesting ...

I've never, personally, been exposed to that kind of thought process. I mean absolutely no disrespect in saying this. As noted, it's a kind of thing I had, to my discredit, never explored except in the context of the culture in which I was raised.

In large part because of how I was raised, if my grandmother, for example, had not been laid to rest as a part of some sort of funeral service, I don't know if I would have survived it psychologically. I could go into great detail of why I think this is the case, but I'll leave it with the simple note that, as mentioned previously, the last time I had seen her, she was waving to me in a way that exposed how full of life she was even in her imminent death, which I firmly believe now she knew was coming within moments. Not having seen her body would have left this latent "it's not real" in my subconscious mind that might never have left. In reference to the OP, the friends of Debra Carter's parents were of the same mind in urging her mother to attend the funeral. Her mother was refusing to accept that her daughter was dead and was in an almost catatonic state. The funeral itself was devastating to her, but hat funeral at the very least moved her psychologically beyond a point of near total shutdown.

Again, I'm making no value judgment. This is all just me and my perceptions and trying to get a sense of what other people's perceptions are. I appreciate especially a polar opposite viewpoint.

[Skittles]

15. oh I know I'm different

I'd don't go through the seven stages of grief either - there's the initial shock, then acceptance. I think religion has a lot to do with it - I think people read way too much into death, thinking there's got to be more to it. To me, there simply isn't - when you're gone, you're gone, and any impact you make must be during your life.

[UncleSepp]

17. I don't have the 'classic' stages, either

To me, there is something more than just this life, and for me, it is exactly that understanding - what you might call a religious belief - that changes how I deal with death. Death is what happens at the end of a life. Everybody dies eventually.

Here's the way I see it. It might not be what anyone else sees, and I'm not claiming that this is How It Is For Everyone.

What dies and is gone when a life ends is the future of that life. The past was already gone, and the future never was, so what is lost is the imagined possibilities of what would happen with the person who has died. Sometimes, it's a repeat of the past - maybe a kid wishes to once again fish with Dad like before. Sometimes, it's a change from the past - maybe a husband wishes he had a chance to say in words how much he loved his wife. Sometimes, it's the imagined progression from the past - maybe a mother wishes she had seen her daughter's wedding. Sometimes, it's the imagined continuation of the past - maybe a wife wishes she had the security her husband provided. In any case, what we grieve are dreams and wishes. The emotions we feel about the loss of those dreams and wishes are nevertheless very real.

What is still with us when a life ends is exactly what we had before. A person who has died is as much with us as a person who is simply not present. We still have the sense of their memory, and we still have the image of them in our minds. We just don't get to make any new memories with them.

[trof]

20. Same here.

When you're gone, you're gone.
It's nice to imagine or suppose that you live in the memories of those near and dear, but you'll never know.

[Lars39]

21. Glad I'm not the only one.

I've even had someone berate me for not grieving properly.

[Skittles]

27. I know what you mean

I'm upset, then I deal with it- there's no anger or bargaining with an imaginary friend - I just know that's it. I never forget them though. Hey, thanks for letting me know I'm not alone in this! :)

[Lars39]

28. No problem, Skittles.

It's kindly reassurance for me,too. I'm glad you posted your views. :hug:

[auntAgonist]

16. the funeral service is absolutely about the living, for the living ..

I was working in a funeral home at the time of my Mother's death. When she died, I prepared her (after the licensed Mortician was done with the embalming) I was not present for that, nor did I want to be. I did place her in her casket, dressed her, did her hair and make-up. My Father was determined to have a closed casket until he saw the beauty that was my Mother laid out to rest. You see, she had looked so painfully ill during the last weeks in her battle with cancer, he couldn't stand to have that nightmarish image implanted in his mind as a remembrance of the way she looked. Once he saw her laid to rest, he immediately decided that the casket should remain open so that we all could remember how lovely and precious our Mother / relative was in life.

Funerals honour the dead. Give closure (yes there's that word) to the living and comfort those who have struggled with a loved one's painful distressing illness.

I want an open casket, I want to be cremated. I would desire a simple service of remembrance and then to be scattered in the mountains amongst the redwood trees.


thank you for letting me share.

aA
kesha.

[hippywife]

18. It's really odd but

when I lived up north, my family and family friends would have 3 calling hours at the funeral home over a day and a half and then the funeral. Since I've moved to Oklahoma, I've only seen one casket (closed) at a funeral. Every funeral I've attended since I moved here over 9 years ago are all just memorial services after the body has been interred or cremated. And, unfortunately, I attend more than most folks since I work with the elderly.

[Tyo]

19. For me?

Unfinished pine box, shroud, cremation. Wake if friends and family like. No religious ceremony please. Ashes in a nice bamboo grove somewhere. In the high mountains would also work.

[trof]

22. Open caskets the norm in my part of the south.

I think it's kinda creepy.
And you always hear the same "She looks so natural." crap, or "God, what did they DO to mom? It didn't look like her at all."
:shrug:

I agree, the final acknowledgment that you spent some hours on this planet are for those still alive.
I don't say 'left behind' because I don't think you 'left' them.
You just cease to be, while they still 'are', for a little while longer.

I want a bust ass party with lots of booze, music, and good food.
I'm sure Miz t. will honor that.
I don't 'want' or need a religious service, but Miz t. is a believer and it sure won't matter to me if she has one.
I mean it really won't matter.
I won't be here (or anywhere) any more.

[Tyo]

24. I don't understand the open casket thing either

I haven't been to that many funerals, but at those I have been to I skip the "viewing".
I feel no need to see dead people.

[dropkickpa]

23. In my area and in my family

open casket is the tradition. But, in my immediate family, my mum is the only one who wants open casket anything (we traditionally do the 2 days of visitation in the funeral home, then a church service, then graveside for the family). My dad, me, and my brothers all are horrified at the thought of

1. all that expense
2. looking at a dead body
3. the voyeuristic nature of these things

We've all decided that we'd like a wake type thing (minus the body), more in line with what my grampa's side of the family would do (a variation on the traditional Irish wake). Most likely at a bar or at home, where people would drink and eat and talk and tell stories. Maybe a small quick graveside ceremony for those of us who'd like to be buried before the festivities (half want to be cremated).

I've asked that they buy the cheapest possible coffin (cardboard would be fine by me) and to NOT embalm or any of that jazz. The only thing I want in there with me is a copy of a picture of my daughter and me.

[u4ic]

25. In my family

most of the funerals are open casket. ALWAYS pictures are taken of the body - I have an aunt with quite the collection. :eyes: I don't know when that tradition started, but I somehow came into possession of a funeral picture of a great-great aunt who died in the 1930's. Strangely, I know of no pictures taken while she was alive.

Most are also very religious, and the majority of funerals aren't a celebration of life as much as "they're with god now". Some are Roman, some Ukrainian Catholic. It may change once the younger generation start dying (my remaining aunts & uncles, and some cousins, are in their 70's and 80's; a great aunt is 102).



Personally, I prefer the celebration of a life. I'm not religious, but I do understand that for some, it provides some comfort (nothing like that at mine, however). And I guess I won't care at that point if anyone takes my picture (I really dislike having my picture taken).

[Nikia]

26. Open caket at my great grandparents and grandparents funeral

Before the funeral, during "calling hours". One great grandmother, my maternal grandmother, and paternal grandfather all had religious funerals at the funeral home even though my grandfather had been atheist leaning agnostic and had not attended church except for special family events, like weddings, since early adulthood. My other great grandmother who was over 100 when she died had a slightly more elaborate grave side service, but no separate funeral at the funeral home. The others had grave side services that were relatively short. For my grandfather, we had a big dinner at the church afterwards (not sure who made the food). For my grandmother, we went out to eat with the family after the grave side services. With my older great grandmother, we didn't do any meal. With my other great grandmother, we had a big dinner at my grandparents house with the family.
I guess that open caket "calling hours" at the funeral home, a funeral at the funeral home, a short grave side service at the cemetary, and a meal afterwards are usual expected events for funerals for me.

[FedUpWithIt All]

29. I plan to be buried either without a casket or in one of an easily biodegradable material.

I want to become a flower ASAP.

Several years ago when my Grandfather passed i mentioned to my brothers that i don't want all of the traditional things associated with that event. I just want my naked body given back to the earth. The idea of being buried in a manner that would somewhat preserve me and keep me from giving back really freaks me out a bit.

They promised that it would be done if they had to kidnap my body from the Hosp.(Ala Little Miss Sunshine)

Since then i have discovered something called Green Cemeteries. They have some suggestions, such as a burial in a cardboard casket that loved ones can decorate and other really intimate things. I love the idea of my family mourning in a way that suits them instead of the way expected of them.

:hi:

[Patiod]

31. Worked with a Jewish kid who was horrified by the concept

He was fresh out of college, and had only ever been exposed to Jewish traditions - quick burial and then sitting shiva. When our boss died, this kid was HORRIFIED to learn about the whole concept of a viewing. "You mean the dead body is right there? And you have to look at it? It's right there in the coffin? And the coffin is OPEN?" Just couldn't wrap his mind around it.

But then again, some of my Protestant colleagues were pretty appalled with I described the wakes in my family, which usually involve drinking and telling stories and a lot of laughter and loud talk.

I also have come to love Quaker services, where everyone stands and shares their memories of the dead person -- I've noticed this is becoming more and more a feature of other religion's ceremonies. It was the final reason I left the Catholic Church: I heard the same Catholic priest give the same "eulogy" (actually just a stupid, generic sermon) for several of my relatives and plus the parents of a friend. A priest friend of the family said how much he hated when anyone else wanted to give a eulogy - he didn't feel it was their place. My mother explained that she finds it comforting that the Catholic focus is less on the deceased than on the Mass Itself --- that the person might be dead, but the Church goes on. I prefer the focus on the deceased, what that person's life meant, and what we can learn from the way they lived their life.

[hedgehog]

32. I never understood people who were traumatized by funerals.

Some of my earliest memories are of funerals because all of the family was there; right down to infants. The first I heard of being traumatized by seeing the dead body was when it was suggested that my eleven year old brother-in-law might be too young to attend his grandfather's wake.