'Spiritual' people from whom you only see

[ForrestGump]

mean or otherwise negative behaviors...have you been afflicted by any?

What matters most -- their spiritual commitment and stated values or their observable behavior toward others bound with them on this earthly plane? To me it's behavior, hands-down. In the end, what matters most in the world around us is what we do, and what we don't do.

I guess I'm talking mostly about those who reject the 'traditional' big-time religions of our society, because (right or wrong) we've become somewhat conditioned to expect a degree of hypocrisy in mainstream religious movements -- the degree varying widely, of course, and embodied by the likes of Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson at its extreme. To me, as a result, it's far more disappointing to be affected by hateful, vindictive, and otherwise ugly behaviors from a New Thought/New Age spiritual pilgrim. My wife was one, in some ways, for a long time. I guess she was trying to do the best she could, but all of her lovey-dovey serene crystal waving and drumming (I did kind of like the drumming, when I tried it, though I provided kind of a syncopated beat to the drum circle, with some pretty energetic drum fills and runs, that was probably not quite what they were really going for) was very much at odds with the way she treated certain others -- most especially her mother and I. Semi-attached to her spiritual community as I became, I saw it in others, too. I met some beautiful people, some amazing souls, but then there were the ones who I got to feeling were more playing spiritual dress-up than anything more meaningful. I'm not talking about flawed human beings, but people who are not just rather nasty but are thus on a fairly consistent basis. Again, I suppose they were just trying to get along, trying to improve their lives and their outlooks, but some were outright evil in their scheming and Machiavellian plotting...at that level, I'd say, "they're just doing their best" is not a defense.

Listen to a recording of my wife's daily utterances and you could tell when she was on the telephone versus when she was talking to (at) me, even without hearing the words. These people on the other end of the phone line, even if she did not know them personally, invariably got a soft and oh-so-understanding voice from Someone Who Obviously Cares So Very Much And Deeply (and she did and does have a great phone voice) whereas the tones that I received were those of a female Jackie Gleason.

Anyway, this isn't about me, my wife, or any of that, it's about hypocrisy among certain of the peaceniks and love-filled-light-beings of 'alternative' religion/spirituality and whether it's so much the worse and disillusioning for being perpetrated by many who'd describe themselves as "recovering Baptists" (or whatever) and for not having the excuse that in their negative behavior they're being true to the Old Testament. And let's not even get into the tendency of certain New Age groups to totally corrupt and misrepresent the rituals and belief systems of other cultures and ethnicities...that's a whole other story. :D

Namaste.

[crim son]

1. I think you assume that people recognize their own

grotesque flaws. We don't, not even the wisest among us. I understand that you would have higher expectations of somebody who has chosen to pursue a spirituality outside the mainstream but that might be because you yourself have some integrity and were you to attach yourself to a group where you thought you might develop spiritually it would be precisely because you recognize and disapprove of hypocrisy. But people attach themselves to groups religious or otherwise, for different reasons. Loneliness, a need to belong, a desire for a life framework where otherwise there is none.

Most people are wonderful but that doesn't mean they are also insightful and introspective. We forgive them for that small flaw.

[ForrestGump]

3. That

is a very good point. :hi:

[otherlander]

2. Dogma always gets away from life.

The new age thing is a nice change of pace, but bad things happen when people become defined by something other than their own beliefs. In the end, we can't use other people's answers.

[ForrestGump]

4. This

is another very good point!

[idgiehkt]

5. this one is stuck in my craw

So I probably shouldn't say too much about it. The first thing that came to mind when I read this was Madonna saying "strike a pose" in that vogue song. Or as a friend of mine used to say, 'anyone can go down to K-mart, buy themselves a few strands of beads and call themselves a guru'. I know exactly where you are coming from. I kind of went one way for ten years (or just under) and then something happened to where I really couldn't do that anymore. So now I get to be fucked up, publicly, and have to live with it. Sometimes I do lose my patience when so-called 'spiritual people', whether it be overzealous 12-steppers, followers of some vague quasi-eastern spirituality, or just regular old stock in trade religious people mistake my revelations of my own failings as a failing in itself. That is kind of what my religion is nowadays, knowing I am human, making mistakes and living with the consequences. I can't take that pose anymore, because I used to be that way. No one here knows that, but I was kind of the one that was like that. Not fake, but very tranquil on the surface. Then I lost it, and I lost my whole sense of self and identity. I'm just trying never to build that up again; I'm never counting clean time in any public sense, or pretending to have anyone else's answers, or presenting myself as any kind of 'wise person'. I'm too scared. Because I lost it completely and then I had to flail about going if I am not this person then who am I. That was a miserable time for me. I'll just be regular.

But I am from Asheville NC, the home away from home (home is California, of course) for that kind of thing. I do think very much of it is posturing and peer pressure behavior just as in every group. It is more about becoming a part of a group and taking on the postures, vocal patters and behaviors of that group of people. I've seen it a million times. One lady wrote a book about that not too long ago, but it pertained to work and how her personality and life in general changed each time she got a drastically different job, here theory was you are who and what you do, because the people around you change you so much. I know being around my family has changed me in the last few years, and not for the better. I'm rambling because I'm sleepy. I just think what you are talking about is very, very, very common, but that's probably because I've seen it so much where I came from.

And cultural appropriation does suck, yes. My favorite poet (Chrystos) has written several poems about it like "Dear Indian Abby" and one about white people called "The Okey-Dokey Tribe", I'm too tired to type them out otherwise I'd share.

[ForrestGump]

6. I think you're right about the peer-group posing and that sort of thing

And its role as at least a component of a sharp dichotomy between behavior and stated beliefs, generally.

I like your pose now, that's not a pose at all.... :hug: :hug: