I Boiled Live Animals - Ask Me (Almost) Anything

[jberryhill]

Last week, I drove a U-Haul truck to Maine to move my daughter to school. On the way out of Portland, I stopped by a seafood place and bought five big lobsters (as big as they can legally sell, it not being New Hampshire).

I brought them home in a cooler and I've never cooked lobsters before.

The dog was not impressed with our new friends, and into the pots they went.

So, I'm at 957 posts. Please feel free to ask things like "How can you live with yourself you horrible man?" or "Were they tasty?"

Damn me, praise me, ask me for recipes... just get me to 1,000...

[Nicole]

1. "How can you live with yourself you horrible man?"

[Nicole]

3. "Were they tasty?"

[jberryhill]

8. OMG

They were wonderful.

I am grateful to them, and have great respect for them. They are amazing animals.

[Nicole]

11. OMG

I wish I has some right now. :9

[jberryhill]

7. I don't

I live with my wife, my sons, a dog, and... oh, yes, I briefly lived with several lobsters.

I was a vegetarian for about two years many years ago. I'm not particularly hung up on food and don't eat a lot of meat as it is (cholesterol mainly). I do believe that if you are willing to eat meat, but aren't willing to kill animals, then you need to do some serious thinking about your place in the universe.

[Nicole]

17. I really wasn't

asking if you were a horrible man, I was just quoting you. :P

I agree with you, that if you eat meat you should be willing to kill it. I would be willing, if I had to. I have in the past. Now I don't but I still eat it.

[jberryhill]

22. I was really embarrassed...

...as a teenager I spent a summer on the Navajo reservation. Before our group left, there was a dinner for us, and a lamb was slaughtered for the dinner. It was a great honor, but some in the group expressed squeamishness about eating the lamb later on, having seen it when alive. I was mortified that someone would react that way to that sort of generosity.

[Nicole]

31. That would be embarrassing n/t

[Lyric]

2. I'm not going to damn you, but

I could never do that myself. I've never eaten lobster and I likely never will, precisely for that reason.

I'm trying to get to the 1000 mark too, here :)

[qnr]

12. Oh yeah, but you'll torture poor innocent little electrons, trying to get to 1,000

:hi:

[jberryhill]

15. I use AC power here

I do not consume electrons. I only rent them for 60 hertz intervals.

Electrical power is the biggest ripoff there is, people. The power company sends you ALTERNATING CURRENT! Think about it - it just goes back and forth. Those bastards are selling you the same electrons over, and over, and over...

[mainegreen]

65. "I do not consume electrons, I only rent them!"

:rofl:

Best post of the day! Not to many people realize thats what they're doing!

[jberryhill]

14. I was told

...that brief exposure to the steam before dropping them into the water pretty much knocks them out anyway. They are geared to live in very cold water. I would imagine that after being on the gel packs in a cooler for the eight hour drive, and then overnight in the fridge, they were pretty groggy.

But that doesn't change the fact that I put live animals into boiling water in order to kill them and eat them.

It was a first for lobsters and me, but I will admit prior offenses against blue crabs, clams, and oysters.

I guess I should further confess to eating live raw oysters. They may eventually get their revenge.

[GoneOffShore]

62. Think about the physiology

A lobster's stomach is pretty close to its eyes, almost behind them. Now it's possible that there are some humans on the planet constructed in much the same way, with pretty much the same emotional life as a lobster, but let's leave them out of the equation. Also consider that if you put lobsters together in a tank, without putting rubber bands on their big claws, they will indeed, kill the smaller lobsters in the tank and eat them.

No problem eating lobsters, oysters, mussels, clams, crabs, sea urchins, periwinkles, shrimp or crayfish.

[jberryhill]

63. Sea urchins...

How in heck does one prepare a sea urchin?

I'm going to needle you for an answer, so show some spine.

[GoneOffShore]

73. If you really want to know

You use big wire clippers.

You really pinned me down on that one.

[Bjornsdotter]

4. I' m jealous

I bet they tasted great.

So just plain melted butter or melted butter and lemon?


Cheers

[jberryhill]

16. No lemon...

My wife can't tolerate citrus. They were very sweet, though.

If you are jealous, then drop by my house this weekend. My wife made another trip to Maine this week, and I'll be happy to throw you into the boiling pot too, if it would make you feel less envious of the lobsters.

[Bjornsdotter]

26. I'll pass...

....on the hot bath! I'm more of a cold water kinda person, but thanks for the offer.

Skol :toast:

[jberryhill]

60. Now there's a coincidence

The lobsters were, as I understand, also partial to cold water.

So, do feel free.

I don't want to seem shellfish.

[Maddy McCall]

5. Sounds yummy!

I have murdered many wee crawfish and blue crabs, myself.

:)

So, really, has the taste of the victims eased your conscience? :P

[jberryhill]

18. I believe...

...that they still live on through me. They have become a part of me, and we enjoy a higher level of consciousness as a result.

The weird thing is that I keep wanting to immobilize my fingers with heavy rubber bands, and I keep swimming backwards.

[peekaloo]

6. Did an earlobe fall in the deep?

Did someone reach in and grab it?


(trying to ascertain the type of lobster here) :D

[jberryhill]

20. There's more than one kind?

Didn't see earlobes, but they had really, really big claws.

I bought them here:

http://www.freerangefish.com/

It was the "free range" bit on the sign that attracted my attention. I'm guessing that was some sort of joke, because I didn't think that shellfish were (a) farmed or (b) spent a lot of time "ranging".

[peekaloo]

25. I'm guessing

you're not a B-52's fan. :D

I get stupid when discussing lobsters because I always bring up the song "Rock Lobster".

:dunce:

[qnr]

9. What was on the side of the U-Haul? (just to go off on a tangent)

:hi:

[jberryhill]

24. I rented it in Delaware

But it had a big "Kansas" graphic on the side, and an Arizona license plate.

The Kansas graphic was really weird because while it was supposed to be a bumblebee getting pollen from a sunflower, the proportion of the bee made it look like a bad attempt at duplicating Peter Maxx artwork.

[mentalsolstice]

10. Did you...

eat them over a rough-hewn bench and newsprint? That's the proper way...

[jberryhill]

28. That's how we do crabs...

...but this was on my mother's kitchen table, upon the tablecloth of which we spilled a mess of melted butter.

I had to use my mother's house, because she has a spare refrigerator in her garage, and I didn't have room to put them in mine overnight.

I called her at about midnight to ask, "Hey, Mom, is the refrigerator in your garage running?"

"Yes," she said.

I couldn't help myself, so I said, "Well you better chase it before it gets away."

She paused and said, "Have you been drinking?" and then hung up on me. She was a lot happier when I showed up with the crustaceans.

[mentalsolstice]

47. I never even thought about the landcrabs...

I grew up in Ft. Lauderdale, and at my best friend's house (block away from my housr), they would throw down some crabs for the weekend (family of 8). They were on the canal, we weren't. Sometimes the big crabs would crawl their way into our pool, but they weren't worth anything...

[jberryhill]

61. Yeah... I had a friend like that...

I eventually told him that he should quit sleeping around and leaving his crabs in my pool too.

[mentalsolstice]

64. Naughty! But I understand!

I was a little kid during those times...and I remember being terrified of the crabs in our pool...

[Gormy Cuss]

13. Did you stop at Harbor Fish Market?

They're finest kind.
I hope that you are skilled at picking every bit of goodness out of the bugs and that you boiled the shells for stock. That's what Mainiacs would do.

[jberryhill]

29. It was Sunday

...and a lot of places were closed. I stopped at "Free Range Seafood" on the way out of town.

Picking the leg muscle compartments of the lobsters is a lot easier than getting the last bits out of, say, blue crabs.

Boiling the shells for stock? Awwwww..... dang.... I shoulda posted here first. We gave some bits of shell to the dog, and put the rest out for the birds to pick at.

[flvegan]

19. Congratulations!!!!!!!

You boiled live animals. Seems like you don't/didn't care either way.

Good on you for invoking the suffering of others.

Oh, c'mon...this is what you were sorta asking for.

[LeftyMom]

21. Oh boy.

:popcorn:

Here you go, I made kettle corn. :9

[jberryhill]

33. To even the moral balance...

...would I redeem myself by buying several more and turning them loose?

That's a serious question, btw.

Every lobster in that tank is going to be sold, boiled, and eaten. So I've been thinking about the moral equation of releasing one for every one I eat.

I fully understand and respect your viewpoint. I believe that moral consistency is something everyone should think about, and that it is hypocritical for meat eaters not to be willing to participate in the *complete* preparation of the things they eat.

I was told, and I don't know whether it is true, that exposing them to the steam before dropping them in, is sufficient to shut them down. I'm not sure whether that matters morally.

And, yes, I understand there are those with strong views about eating meat. Your viewpoint is welcome, and fine by me.

[LeftyMom]

40. From an ecological standpoint

(I'm mostly going to stay out of the ethics of meat issue, because I'm sure flvegan is all over that as I type and he's as good at it as me, if not better) part of the problem with lobster is that they are so badly overfished. They are by nature a very longlived species, and to haul them up out of the ocean when they are small enough to be worth eating is to rob them of most of their adult reproductive lives. As a result, Northeast waters lack larger lobster, and the old fellows are very few and far between.

As for the tank, yes, a tank is a horrible place for a lobster. They're antisocial and don't do well in groups. In the tanks they aren't fed so they aren't poisoned by accumulation of waste in the water. They lack the darkness and hidey-holes they need. But taking one out of the tank isn't rescuing it, it's condemning another to the tank. Buy a lobster today, and another will be caught to replace him. The only way to end the cycle is not to buy the fellow in the tank, and to tell others to do the same.

[jberryhill]

46. That does make sense

Not knowing much about lobsters, the regulations struck me as counter-intuitive.

With most fish, you aren't allowed to keep the small ones. With lobster, it's the opposite, at least in Maine. I believe the legal limit in Maine was something like six pounds. But the guy at the shop made some vague reference to New Hampshire not regulating the size and age of lobsters.

I'm curious about "small enough to be worth eating". Are the older and larger ones generally not as good to eat? (and by "good" I mean solely from the taste/sensation angle)

[LeftyMom]

50. That's my understanding.

Is it true that the bigger ones are tough and not so tasty? I'm just about the last DUer who would know. :shrug:

Have you read Consider the Lobster? It's this article from Gourmet (later part of a book of essays) about lobster and the Maine Lobster Festival and it's pretty interesting. Here's a PDF of it: http://www.lobsterlib.com/feat/davidwallace/page/lobsterarticle.pdf

[jberryhill]

57. I will say

That I had not considered lobsters very much prior to this, and I have gained respect for them as remarkable animals. Now, I know how that sounds coming from a guy who then proceeded to boil them alive, but by that point, there were few options unless they wanted to take up residence in the nearby woods.

One thing I seriously don't get is how they lived out of the water so long (at least 24 hours). I'm guessing the cold packs lowered their metabolism to the point that their respiration requirements were minimal but, dang, that's a long time to be away from what you breathe.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

52. The older, larger lobsters are not as good eating.

There was a thread fairly recently about some rich woman that had a 70-something pound lobster for her birthday dinner, basically just because she had the money to do so. Not only does a lobster that old deserve to live, but the meat on it probably sucked.

[Gormy Cuss]

72. The size limits are all about population management.

Maine does regulate the catch much more severely than other nearby states. It's probably why the stock of lobsters in the Gulf of Maine is considered stable, whereas the lobstering grounds in some other parts of the North Atlantic are in decline. Most of the lobstering occurs within areas that are under state jurisdiction --- if the state doesn't limit the catch, it's probably overfished. The Stellwagen Bank (off Massachusetts)was one of the richest lobster areas and it's now in severe decline This uneven management of lobstering is why homarus Americanus is considered overfished.

Maine not only limits size of the lobsters but the times and days when it's legal to pull traps and the number of traps that can be used under one license. There's a long list of regulations and it gets longer every year. I hear my brother, a lobsterman by trade, grouse about it every time I see him.

Maine limits the catch to non-egg bearing lobsters between 3 1/4 and 5 inches long from eye socket to the tail join. The size minimum is intended to allow young males a chance to breed before they are caught. When breeding females are caught, the tail fin is notched with a V and the lobster is tossed back into the ocean. If a V-notched female is caught again, it's tossed back even if there is no current egg sac.

The size maximum is a nod to retain some balance in the population by recognizing the survivors that have been contributing to the gene pool for a long time and are the backbone of the population. Young females may produce only a few thousand eggs, but the large older females are known to produce up to 100,000 in one cycle. Old lobsters are huge, weighing at 20 to 25 pounds. There have been lobsters hauled in that were over 40 lbs.

As to taste, large lobsters are allegedly good eating but in Maine people prefer the smallish ones for eating plain, and the large ones for casseroles and other dishes where the meat will be cooked with other ingredients.

It is true that the small holding tanks such as those in supermarkets are not natural environments for the lobsters and stress them. Lobsters live in close proximity to each other but don't really socialize. They like to spend most of their time snug in small spaces. You bought lobsters at the waterfront in a lobstering area. I'd bet that the time between being pulled out of the ocean and being purchased was less than a week, and very likely less than three days. On a summer weekday it's typical that the lobsters on sale were hauled the day before.

BTW, homarus Americanus can be sold as Maine lobster even if it came from waters outside of the state. At least when you buy one in Portland you know that you're getting real Maine lobsters.

[Maine-ah]

75. you can let them loose at my house if you like..

it's only an hour and a half north of P-land....:evilgrin:

[jberryhill]

76. Now there's an idea...

I'd be pretty popular if I advertised "Orphaned Lobsters - Free To Good Home"

I get up to Camden from time to time.

[LostinVA]

68. Oh boy

[Midlodemocrat]

70. I love lobster, but I've stopped eating it.

Largely because of things I've read in the V/V/AR forum. That's a good thing. You guys have changed the behavior of at least one person. It's a start.

[LeftyMom]

81. Today Midlo, tomorrow the world!

:woohoo:

[Critters2]

83. From your keyboard to God's eyes! nt

[HEyHEY]

87. I've killed hundreds of em

I used to work in a seafood market and we'd sell and steam them on the spot. I never liked it. I was told that they don't have a nervous system and can't actually feel it. But I never really believed that.

[jberryhill]

101. If I didn't care either way...

Then why would I have brought it up?

Hmmm?

[TimeChaser]

23. Congradulations! You just ate a giant bug

Well, basically. They are arthropods

[jberryhill]

35. Bugs are probably better....

I've been eating oatmeal like a madman to compensate for the cholesterol load.

I understand that lobsters do not have a lot of cholesterol. It'll be the butter what done me in.

[crim son]

27. I performed the same cruel act on New Year's Eve.

Next time I'm going to season the water I boil them in.

[qnr]

30. Um, you did? Strange that you'd have to rent a U-Haul to drive to Maine (random thought) :) n/t

[crim son]

32. Oh be quiet.

I ate lobster. Hey, did I miss something? :7

[qnr]

34. yes'm... quietening up.

Wow.. that's actually a word...

[crim son]

36. You looked it up?

Hey, my friend. Do you have long hair? I think I remember seeing a photo.

[jberryhill]

38. Me?

Sometimes I have short hair:



and sometimes I have long hair:



it depends on how long of a stretch I've been working without leaving the house, which can go for many weeks at a time.

[crim son]

39. Ummm, no, but I am very happy to be able to put a face to the

screenname. Hi! :hi: I'm Lisa.

[jberryhill]

41. Bless you, Lisa

[crim son]

43. If only you knew..

:pals:

[qnr]

42. Yes, but it was easy, I have the Dictionary Tooltip extension in Firefox, I just double-click

on a word. https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/1171/

And yeah, I have long hair. So as not put unwanted photos into someone elses thread, there's one that's a few months old here (hmm, I need to update that... haven't lived in NV for years): http://wiki.sourcemage.org/Terry_Ross

[crim son]

45. Yes, that's the you I remember!

Just checking. :)

[jberryhill]

37. My daughter was moving away...

...and we had to clear all of her stuff, and her girlfriend's stuff, from the basement. We also took an assortment of furniture.

[qnr]

44. Wow, we both got you with this sub-thread :) but it is your thread, after all, so

the questions would naturally apply to you :hi:

[jberryhill]

49. I'm not possessive like that.....

When did this notion of "ownership" of a discussion begin?

I don't think there was that sort of concept in usenet discussions.

If I rent a hall for a party, then do I have to control what everyone talks about there?

[qnr]

51. No, not a matter of absolute ownership, but relative. If you're talking about

renting a U-Haul in your thread, and I mention something about renting a U-Haul, then it is only natural to think the comment was related to your original post :)

[jberryhill]

55. Oh....

I gather that is an idiomatic expression.

Heck, I rented one to drive from Utah to Delaware once.

And then I had a friend in Canada who wheedled me into hauling his eBay purchased furniture dang near all the way to Ottawa.

I got into a debate with the border agents about whether I was allowed to take the truck into Canada. I said, well, the rental agreement says I can drive it anywhere in the United States. So, if I can drive it anywhere in the United States, and I want to drive it in, say, Alaska, then I guess I'm allowed to drive it in Canada by implication. After all, in big bold letters the agreement made clear that under no circumstances was I to drive it into "MEXICO" (in big bold letters). Well, I said, since there are only two countries you can drive into from where I rented it, and they put MEXICO in big bold letters, then they would have been perfectly capable of printing "CANADA" right next to it if they didn't want me to drive it into Canada.

That trip was a Ryder truck though. I came back into the states in a big yellow Ryder truck with an Oklahoma license plate, and the US border agent just said, "What's in the truck?"

"Nothing. It's empty."

"Oh, okay" and he waved me on into the US after a glance at my driver's license.

But I gather you haul a U-Haul of an entirely different variety.

[qnr]

56. lol, no, same U-Haul :) just teasing crim son because she said she did the "same thing" --

as she lives in Maine, I thought it would be funny in a minor sort of way to ask why she rented a U-Haul to go to Maine. Me, I can't afford them, I just torture my cars and load everything into them :)

[jberryhill]

58. They must be accumulating them there...

I can't figure out how one-way truck rentals balance out on a large scale, such that they aren't piling up somewhere.

This particular haul constituted everything for a several room apartment and kitchen for my daughter and her girlfriend.

(on edit: ah... I see... and here I was also thinking she arrive in Maine via U-Haul. It's late. Why does she think renting a U-Haul is cruel?)

[jberryhill]

59. No, no, no... this wasn't an act

I did it for real.

I should also mention that not only was it my first time, but I think it was the first time for the lobsters too!

[enigmatic]

48. Boy, that sounds good

I've had a big jones for some Alaskan King Crab for the past month and I think we're going to break down and get some this weekend..

[jberryhill]

53. Heh...

Living near the Chesapeake, we have sincere pity on those who eat King Crab.

Years ago I was in the Caribbean, and a group of European tourists asked me to take a table picture of them eating a lobster dinner. Scrawny, spiny little things those warm-water lobsters.

I'm a little ambivalent about seafood generally. It's hard to buy the competing messages of "it's really good for you" and "it's got toxic stuff out the wazoo".

[enigmatic]

54. I can understand that

I gave up Clams for awhile for that reason, but man, steamed clams drenched in garlic butter are so good...

[mainegreen]

66. Was your lobster a boy or a girl?

:P

[jberryhill]

77. Hmmm.....

It had a lot of parts whose function I couldn't figure out.

[johnnie]

67. If you place them in the freezer for about an hour

They go into a state of "animated suspension", then it isn't as nasty for them.

[Bridget Burke]

74. Alton Brown put some lobsters in the freezer....

Then killed them quickly with a knife, for broiling. He also boiled some.

On that show, Alton explained lobster taxonomy--close enough to cockroaches to quell compassion. (Well, for those who've ever smashed cockroaches with their bare feet.) But not close enough to make them seem un-tasty.

Lobsters don't grown down here, but I've hunted the wily blue crab. Then killed & ate them!

[jberryhill]

78. With my newfound wealth of information...

I am told that the lobster's nervous system relies upon distributed ganglia constituting some 100K neurons in all, and that you can't really kill them with the knife to the head trick.

I'm not sure I would characterize anything as "wily" that can't find its way out of a wire frame box upon going after a piece of chicken.

[Critters2]

84. And you know this how?

You've been placed in the freezer for about an hour and then boiled alive? And it wasn't nasty for you?

[johnnie]

88. I saw someone talking about it once

If people are going to eat them, I would rather see them do it as humane as possible. If you dig the idea of just grabbing them as they flap around and throwing them in boiling water, then by all means..advocate that. I was just trying to offer up a way that seemed more humane.

[Critters2]

91. I advocate not boiling creatures alive at all.

That seems more humane to me.

[jberryhill]

100. The God of Abraham Agrees With You

Lobsters are not Kosher.

It's interesting how the moral sense works. I'm ambivalent about lobsters.

However, I am of the "gently take it outside" school of finding insects in the house. Except spiders. It drives my wife nuts but I prefer to leave spiders in the house. Since she won't touch them, the spiders are safe and welcome here.

[Gormy Cuss]

96. I believe that johnnie has a markedly different physiology so that test would be meaningless.

I respect the fact that you are against the killing of animals because you view it as inhumane but the comparison of how a lobster may experience freezing or boiling to how a human would is really not relevant.

Lobsters in the wild fight each other to the point where one may rip the claw off another. Their bodies then start the process to regenerate the claw. With humans the outcome would be quite different. We don't naturally cauterize the wound when a limb is torn off and we don't regenerate the limb.

[jberryhill]

99. Being a somewhat instant expert here...

One of the things I looked at suggested that lobsters are designed to be able to quickly shed limbs. Given their general gangliness, I'm not surprised, since it seems they could otherwise get easily stuck under a shifting rock.

[Deep13]

69. Aren't they just big, underwater bugs?

:shrug:

[jberryhill]

79. Apparently

I'm going for locusts and honey next.

[LynneSin]

71. WTF!! We live in the same town - why didn't you invite me

:pals:

[jberryhill]

80. On the way back to Delaware

Our hypothetical guest list had outstripped our limited supply.

Consider yourself welcome, though, to come over and jump into a boiling pot of water anytime you'd like.

[ronnykmarshall]

82. You killed Pinchy?????

[jberryhill]

92. Nope... no Pinchy

Their names were Blackie, Speedo, Flipper, Shelly, and Spike.

[ronnykmarshall]

94. Who gave you the most trouble?

[jberryhill]

98. Flipper

He didn't want to go into the cooler.

They were packed with moist seaweed and frozen gel packs. The next day when it came time to prepare them, they were all pretty groggy. Blackie was the most active and he intimidated my dog (a rescued injured stray - I'm not all bad).

I expected a lot of clattering around and drama of the type often described, but their general grogginess combined with a shot of steam prior to putting them in the water must have rendered them more insensate than normal.

[Critters2]

85. When I ate murdered animals (I no longer do), lobster was the one thing

I couldn't comprehend. They taste like nothing--until you dip them in butter or lemon. Then they taste like butter or lemon. You can tell by the constancy of the meat that they're fatty as all hell. And to top all that, you have to torture the poor creature to eat it at all.

And they're ridiculously expensive.


Really, I don't get it.

[MissMillie]

86. Inquiring minds want to know

butter, or no butter?

:hi:

Hope you enjoyed your lobster!

[jberryhill]

93. I used some butter

But they were very sweet and tasted fine without it.

[Q3JR4]

89. Just one more post

jberryhill, say something cool and lobster..y.

:P

[jberryhill]

95. It's getting hot in here...

let's take off all our shells...

[Cobalt Violet]

90. Do you believe what goes around comes around?

[jberryhill]

97. Definitely

I once paid an extra train fare and was late to work in order to rescue a praying mantis that had found its way into the train car in which I was riding.

John The Baptist, on the other hand, ate locusts and ended up having his head cut off.

I am certain that I will die. Quite probably painfully.