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Help. Need answers to computer printing/graphics questions.

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chaska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 03:05 PM
Original message
Help. Need answers to computer printing/graphics questions.
I am investigating the possibilities of a product that I may want to market (guitars - long story).

Specifically, I want to know if it's possible and/or practical to print album cover art (LPs) off the internet onto poster stock. Is it possible/practical to print a lifesize (about 12-13 inches square), full color copy of an album cover at home, on a one off basis, using inks that won't fade, on to heavy poster stock paper.

Would it be a problem to get scans of a scale that would give an accurate copy? Would I likely have to do my own scans?

I don't own a printer, so I don't know anything about all of this.

Can ya'll help?
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NYCGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
1. Depending on the size of the image from the net — most are 72 dpi jpegs,
and wouldn't be able to be blown up to that size without considerable loss of quality.
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chaska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. But could I do my own scans to overcome the problem?
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evlbstrd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
2. The first post is correct.
As for scanning, you'd need to deal with moire by descreening during the scan. You're essentially scanning dots of ink, not continuous tone.
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chaska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. I don't understand what you're telling me....
Edited on Wed Jan-24-07 03:37 PM by chaska
ya evlbstrd. :evilgrin:



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evlbstrd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Got a magnifying glass?
Use it to look at any printed piece. You'll see rosette patterns of four colors of dots. It's how full color is reproduced on a printing press.

If your printer lays down an image in dots, you impose another pattern over the first, and the result is moire.
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chaska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Yeah, I sorta knew that, but...
I didn't realize that the screen played a part in the scanning process.

...I assume there are scanners available (kinkos?) that could scan something as big as an LP cover?
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evlbstrd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. The scanner can't help but pick up the screen.
There are descreening settings in scanner software. They essentially blur the image to an extent.
I can't answer your Kinko's question, but larger scanners are available. They tend to get expensive. The image files you'll produce will be very large, too.
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jmowreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. The "screen" in question is not the glass thing in front of you
Edited on Wed Jan-24-07 06:53 PM by jmowreader
In the very old days, before computers were used in the graphic arts, you prepared photos for printing on a stat camera.

The stripper I used to work for had been a printer since before the Korean War (when he got drafted he was sent to work as an engraver), so foolishly I asked him how to make a color separation on a camera. We spent the next three days separating color on the camera, and I got pretty good at making basic seps.

To separate a photo on a camera, you take four photos of the original photo through filters and screens. The screen is a sheet of acetate with rows of little dots all over it. The number of dots per inch determines the coarseness of the separation--how coarse or fine you want it depends on the paper, the press and the process you're running--and the angle is determined by the color of ink that's going to be on the plate.

Cyan is normally run at either 15 or 105 degrees
Black is ALWAYS run at 45
Magenta is usually run at 75
And yellow, because it's the least-visible color, is at an off-angle: either 0 or 90. Notice that the other three colors are 30 degrees offset; yellow is at a 15-degree offset. This causes moire, but you don't see it because screened yellow ink is hard to see.

(Those are typical angles. We fucked with my Scitex system's screening system for about a month when we got it--we switched the cyan and magenta angles, rotated all four screens six degrees, altered the dot shape on the yellow dot, and got a screening set that was just perfect for my presses.)

Now for the filters: each separation negative contains only the parts of the photo needed for that color. Therefore, you must use a filter over your lens that removes all but that color of light from the photo. Now the shit gets weird, and here we've got to go WAY deeper into subtractive color theory than you really wanted to delve.

How any printed piece actually works is pretty simple: the light you use to see the image goes through the colorants, hits the paper, and reflects back up into your eyes. The colorants absorb part of the light...the part that comes back, your eye melds into a coherent whole.

Cyan ink removes red light. Therefore, to shoot the cyan negative you put a red filter over the lens.
Magenta ink removes green light, so a green filter is used.
Yellow ink removes blue light, so a blue filter is used.

(Right now you're thinking "but there are SEVEN colors of light that, when properly combined, make all the colors one can possibly see." There are, and when we separate color we ignore four of them. There's a reason the real world is so much more vivid than the colors in a picture book.)

To shoot the black negative in a traditional separation, you use a neutral-density filter that just removes about half of the light,in all the colors, from the image. The black neg is just a ghosted halftone. You can tell in an instant the difference between a computer-generated black neg and a camera-generated one: the camera-generated one is a lot more detailed.

All right, how do you get rid of the screen? Start by scanning at a really high, but irrational, DPI. My favorite setting is 763dpi. For an album cover you're looking at rigs like Screen Cezanne, some really huge Scitex (who sold to Creo, and Kodak has it now) flatbeds, one of the big Fuji pro scanners...you probably won't find those in a Kinko's but you might have a printing plant in town that has one. We're talking $40,000 for a scanner.

Once you have this ungodly huge scan, open it in Photoshop, zoom in on a moderately dense area, then run Gaussian Blur. The little Gaussian Blur window will come up. Set the blur radius just barely high enough to make the dots go completely away. Back down one and see if they come back at all. If they don't, back down one more time and see if they come back. If they do, bump it back up one and hit OK. Once the blur has done its thing, resample the image to 300dpi. What you have done is kinda weird. You have sharpened the scan by throwing part of it--the rough edges--away. It sounds weird, looks weird, feels weird and probably IS weird, but it works so don't complain very loudly. (I better edit here and tell you that the irrational DPI you scanned at is critical to do. When you resample to 300dpi, it has to throw away more dots in some places than in others, and it is this, not just the sampling down, that sharpens the image. If you scan at 1200dpi and blur it, when you sample down you'll get a smaller yet still fuzzy image. Scan at a weird DPI and downsample, it clears things right up. You can do this to make photos larger too--upsample to the final image dimensions at 763dpi, blur out the artifacts and resample to 300. It will look a hell of a lot better than it has a right to.)
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finecraft Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
3. I print at home with an EPSON 1280 on 13x19 paper
using EPSON's Matte Heavyweight paper. Looks and feels like a poster.
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chaska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Oh good, that problem solved, but....
Edited on Wed Jan-24-07 03:32 PM by chaska
what about ink? Can non-fading ink be had and used?

...I guess toner is the proper term.
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finecraft Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. It's an inkjet printer so it uses ink cartridges
EPSON uses durabrite inks that are pigment based in the cartridges for the 1800 (new upgraded model is the 1900) that are non-fading and waterproof. Another printer to look at is the EPSON R1800. It will print large format (12x19) too, but uses a 6-color ultra chrome high-gloss ink. This is from the EPSON website:
http://www.epson.com.sg/products/printers/inkjet/Epson_Stylus_Photo_R1800.shtml

Long lasting, durable color prints
Prints from the Stylus Photo R1800 display light fastness characteristics when printed on genuine Epson Premium Glossy Photo Paper. The UltraChrome Hi-Gloss ink also utilizes Epson Micro Encapsulation technology, which encloses each pigment particle in a transparent resin. This resin protects the pigment from fading and discoloration. Additionally, since UltraChrome Hi-Gloss ink is applied evenly to the media surface, scratches and nicks are greatly reduced while the prints dry.

For what it's worth, I love EPSON printers. I've used others, but EPSONs are the only ones I do my professional printing on.

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chaska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. That's very helpful. Thanks!
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China_cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 08:07 PM
Response to Original message
13. Are you thinking of doing existing album covers?
If you are, the printing is the least of your worries unless you own the copyright.

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mainegreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 08:28 PM
Response to Original message
14. oooh, this is a very interesting thread.
I love it when I learn on DU!
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