25 years and still no significant other...

[CrazyForKucinich]

This has to be a record here...no girlfriend whatsoever in 25 years. Not even one fucking date...like out in public. If I were a jackass and bad-looking that'd be one thing but I'm not. I'm just the complete opposite of that in fact...or so I think.

I have no luck. It's probably been like over 20 people I've asked out or shown interest in and have received nothing back from any of them. Nothing.

I'm getting very fucking depressed because of all of this. I really can't take it anymore. Now I'm crying again...didn't know I had tears left after last night. Gah.

[Indy_Dem_Defender]

1. Maybe your looking

in the wrong places or for the wrong type? I'm 26 and probably not a lot of help, If I notice a pattern always develops with women who are a certain type or hang out at a certain place. I stay clear of those types or places.

An example for me about 4-5 years ago, I use to go to church and thought I wanted to date a christian woman. I notice a pattern of at least a half dozen times, of these church chicks being terrible communicators, if they had a problem whether it had something to do with me or anything else they didn't want to talk about it cause they thought it made them look weak in the eyes of god. So they would just keep it bottled up, you could tell something was wrong, and tension developed. I didn't want a woman like that and I didn't want to be around places with people like that so I stay clear of churches and christian women.

[liberaldemocrat7]

85. Finding a woman depends on many factors.

I have a girlfriend and we just celebrated our third year together tonight. She comes from Canada and she's a permanent resident so we don't have problems where she can only stay in the US for 6 months and have to go back, wait for awhile and do the cycle over again and again. I found her on a video conferencing system so I saw what she looked like and she saw what I looked like right away. We chatted for a few hours using text. We decided we wanted most of the aspects of a relationship each other wanted and then spoke on the phone, and she and I found each other compatible. We did not get into any extended uncertainty period about compatibility. We saw just about right away we appeared right for each other. We both consider ourselves fortunate.

Sometimes one can find a woman in person which appears the best. After all before the 1990's online dating services did not exist.

These days, not only online dating services exist but you can find a woman on a bulletin board system like DU, or on a video conferencing service like paltalk.com, or jmeeting.com or anywebcam.com or on internet relay chat also called IRC.

In the past, I found many women using irc and patalk. Mostly I have had monagamous online relationships because here on Long Island I just did not find any women who sought too much looks, too much financial security. I did NOT find these women intimidating but rather I found the men I had to compete with, intimidating.

Yes, you need to talk with women and listen to women, but while that appears necesssary it does not always appear sufficient. Honestly, the women I had met on Long Island, while not looking for Donald Trump appeared the type who did seek the above average looking man, with the above average job, and above average social skills and above average money. These women also wanted a man with an edge to them. Now these women did not appear the model type. I'm talking about the women who did not appear unattractive. The women who looked from decent to very attractive. They broke the threshhold of unattractiveness in the mainstream, and I'm not talking about slim women. Even women say from 150 - 200 pounds when they look decent or better can write their own ticket and they look to boyfriend up so to speak if such a phrase exists. In other words she wants someone with better status than her. When a woman does not get rejected on looks, she can more or less write her own ticket and she knows this, up to a point. So, the men she perceives at her level get stuck in the friend zone. The best way for men to deal with the friend zone comes from accepting a certain amount of women who put you in the friend zone and then reject any more as to see if the relationship goes further, so at least you have some women friends.

Also, now that I have a girlfriend for 3 years, I don't care about whether I'm going to get intimate with another woman, and I can just enjoy other women as friends. Yes, I had resented women who put me in the friend zone.

In the past, I did consider it an insult if a woman appears at my level of education and "intelligence" and looks but then attempts to place me in the friend zone because she's looking for someone better. Oh and this doesn't only apply to conservative women also. Alot of liberal women do this too. These liberal women may believe in compassion for the poor, the elderly, the disabled, but when it comes to a personal relationship their requirements for a boyfriend might just look similar to the conservative woman.

So women DO look for smart, social men but let's face it, the demands do not end there, and alot of women want something extra, the man with the great looking car, the great executive job or managerial job, the above average looks and pass up the guy who can talk to them, listen to them, but who doesn't measure up to their expectations in other areas.

Yes, alot of women say they want a smart, funny, good listening man, but they don't tell the whole story explicitly. Most women will not admit to wanting a man with above average wealth or looks and that leaves alot of men wondering and wandering from one woman to the next and the next until he finds the woman for him.

Like I said it does not only apply to women conservatives. Alot of Liberal women do this too.


It does depend on the individual woman though. Keep looking. Don't put up with dishonesty, and don't put up with the friend zone beyond a certain point. Insist on getting treated like a man and not a SUCCESS OBJECT. LOL

Ok, I have finished here :)

[mike_c]

2. ouch, dude....

I'm sorry. No advice to offer, I'm afraid-- I LIKE living alone and not being involved with anyone, so I can sympathize with your pain but not really empathize.

I hope you find some peace. Life is too short for worrying about what might have been, and there are just too many cool and wonderful things to experience no matter whether you do it alone or with someone else.

[CrazyForKucinich]

4. Like what?

Not having someone to hold really sucks man. A dog or cat isn't really going to hold me back either.

So you like living alone? Ok but I'm sure you're going out on a date every now and then...maybe even have a girlfriend who doesn't live with you.

I want to share my life with someone...I want someone to share their life with me...it's just not going to happen. I know I'm missing out on so much too...every day that passes I could have a good day but in the end it wasn't because I still have no one to share it with.

[patricia92243]

15. Have you ever tried something like eHarmony.com?

[philosophie_en_rose]

3. You could place a Personal Ad in the Lounge.

:)

[Nicole]

5. Sorry you're hurting

:hug:

[Omphaloskepsis]

6. Are you 60? If so thats kinda fucked up.

If you are 25 I wouldn't get bent out of shape. I have only found SO's when I stopped looking for them. I think the desperation thing is a turn-off.


edit: I'm not a handsome man (the word "asshole" is tossed around a lot too). It takes a long exposure to me for the girls knees to go weak. I do better at work than the bar.

[Pushed To The Left]

7. Have you tried personal ads?

I met my last 3 girlfriends through the personals. In fact, the last time I was on a date that wasn't due to the personals was over 13 years ago if I remember correctly! The key is to find somebody you're compatible with.

On the other hand, maybe there are some female DUers in your area that might be interested in dating a fellow Democrat!

[HEyHEY]

8. Try lavalife

How do you typically approach women?

[neweurope]

9. I'm sure you'll find someone!

Maybe you have to eye yourself critically to find out what might turn the girls off. Maybe it's just sheer bad luck. But try and stay open, something might happen any day. And enjoy the time until you do find somebody: I was 39 when I first met my SO. But I certainly did enjoy the years until I found him.
:hug:

------------------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[Robeson]

10. Here's some services, don't know much about them....

...but google'd them up. Maybe you could do some research, and meet someone...

http://www.democraticpeoplemeet.com/index.cfm?track=GG1147

http://www.liberalhearts.com/

http://www.democraticsingles.net/

[DainBramaged]

11. Match.com

It works.

[Porcupine]

12. Go overseas.

I know this is total flamebait but here goes.

Our culture spends enourmous amounts of money convincing us that we are not happy and that "you deserve more." The majority of that money is aimed at the female portion of our populace. I wish it weren't true.

Assuming you have no gross physical deformities and have no intention of ever, ever abusing a partner you might try offshoring your bridal search. There are many cultures where the concept of marraige is such that you would be a desirable partner for a woman.

Just don't think you will get a beauty queen, a sex toy or a in-home therapist. You will end up with a person you will have to learn to work with just like in any relationship.

Good luck.

:hide:

flame away

[ceile]

30. I have a friend who has a Russian bride.

Met her over some website, went to Minsk(?) to meet her and her son....that was 6 years ago and they just had their first child and they're very happy.

[Der Blaue Engel]

38. I want a Russian bride

But I can't find any that are looking for a wife. :shrug:

[usaftmo]

49. Amen!

I've lived overseas for 7 years and say that you're entirely correct. 2 years in Europe, 2 years in Central America, and 3 years in Asia. What has also helped me is that I'm in the military. We can have our choice of who we want to be with. Unfortunately the stereotype of women marrying a GI just to get to the States is all too real.

Finding the right person to have a serious long-term relationship with is difficult anywhere in the world.

[KG]

13. relationships are over rated

self-love is where it's at...

[LaurenG]

14. Well there are some things you can do (along with the other suggestions here)

First, figure out what you need from a relationship. Most of the things that you need in life you can fill for yourself but companionship is not something easily given to yourself.

I have found that when I need to bring something into my life that it helps to write down and clarify on paper what I'm looking for or what I want. Then I see how much I need from others and do as much as I can of the rest, myself. This pertains to almost anything.

Next I formulate a way to keep myself balanced and happy so that I don't stress during the process. This usually includes an outline (at least in my head) of what I need to do to get the "project" done. So in essence, I plan a course for my future. For instance, if I want to return to school, I'll need to plan my time, money and energy resources. I outline and include worst case scenarios as much as possible. Do this for finding a companion. Be very clear in what you are looking for in another and be willing to be flexible, sometimes you just have to change your plan of action.

The next thing would be to be very nice to yourself. If you can do that it will automatically transfer over to the way you treat others. If you are respectful of yourself you are automatically respectful to others.

Keep in mind that there are plenty of people who feel just like you do and want a connection with others too. This is not going to last forever but you will need to make changes as the way you've been going about meeting others hasn't worked. Depression is a stinker, try to keep in mind that it's a cover for anger and futility. There are two things that I try to remember when I'm in a tough spot. Acceptance and perseverance, they will pull you through this and many more crummy places if you can use them.

[MissMillie]

16. I hear ya

I feel that I will live alone for the rest of my life. It's not that I don't want a partner, but I can't seem to find one. Even when someone shows some interest, they end up leaving for some reason or another (usually another woman).

A dating record like that hardens a person. I'm at the point now where I feel as though it's not even worth trying anymore, no one will ever stay. (You gotta be impressed by such a level of cynicism!)

You know, I always thought I'd be a good catch. I'm not drop-dead gorgeous, but I'm not ugly either. I try to be nice to people, and I love a good laugh. It never dawned on me that other people wouldn't see me that way.

I'm 42 years old and I've never been married.

It sucks to feel unwanted.

So... :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:

[alarimer]

20. I have the same problem

Usually I only get one date though. I almost never hear from the person again. Although this past year I had a second date with two different people, then I didn't hear from them, so that's progress of a sort I guess.

I am not a very social person and I never know what to say really, with anyone. So I guess that's part of it. Other than that maybe it's just bad luck.

I have never had a real relationship I guess. A couple of times they have lasted a few months, no more. One met someone else and the other turned out to be a complete liar. Now I'd settle for a 'friend with benefits'. That seems to be all I am good for. Good enough to sleep with but not good enough for anything else. Oh well.

[MissMillie]

21. Well,

I refuse to be "good enough to sleep with but not good enough for anything else."

I've been w/o sex for a while now, and that's just fine by me. I don't feel sexy unless I feel truly wanted.

But that's just me.

[alarimer]

23. I just figure that time's a wasting for me

I may never meet "the one." And I am not willing to wait for them either. But everybody has their own way of dealing with it.

[Courtesy Flush]

88. I'm just the opposite

I always assumed I'd have no success in love, and either never marry or never have a successful marriage.

Through my first year of college I never had a girlfriend. Then it happened! Bam! Thirty years later, we're still having a ball together. Just this weekend we were saying how fun it is to be us.

Ask me the secret?... I'm clueless! If I were single again, I'd surely stay that way. I'm not what women are looking for. But one woman WAS looking for me, and good thing we crossed paths.

So to our dear OP, I suggest maximum exposure to as many people as possible, and keep your mind open for that person you didn't know you were looking for. The one who doesn't seem to meet your pre-conceived notions of a perfect match may just be your dream girl.

[LeftyMom]

17. Well the good news,

It takes most of us at least that long to make not-entirely-stupid relationship decisions.

[rug]

18. Looks like it's time to find some insignificant others.

[Deja Q]

36. Or a kitty or puppy.

(That's what others have told me... but I think living with one's self is more important than feeling bad because one doesn't have a trophy partner or anything.)

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

19. I found my fiancee on match.com

I would highly recommend using an online service.

However, I think you need to look inward a bit and look at your tactics. Are you too shy?

[Patiod]

22. Sorry you're hurting

My friends have had great luck getting involved in organizations which have folks with similar interests - choirs, theater groups, political action committees.

Guys have it even easier, since women tend to be more likely to be joiners, so the guys are often outnumbered.

If they haven't met "the one", they've met some great friends of both sexes.

[DemocraticBassPlayer]

24. There was a time...

I felt much as the OP does...But things changed for me when I decided, long ago, to quit trying so hard, devoted more time to school, playing hoops with my boyz, playing "jazz-fusion" with my boyz and generally enjoying life more.

THEN it happened...now 22 years later I am married to the most fantastic, sexy, intelligent woman who is also a great mother to our daughter.

If I could offer any advice, I'd say quit trying so hard, be yourself (because if you cannot accept yourself, no one else will either) and just enjoy your circumstances. Sounds like a "fairy-tale",,yet it worked for me

Best of luck my friend

[Lydia Leftcoast]

25. Some utterly serious suggestions:

I'm middle-aged and unmarried, though it's not for lack of past relationships. At this point in my life, I find that I don't even LIKE most typical American middle-aged guys, since I've always been rather out of step with mainstream American society and I'm even more so now.

However, my life experience has given me the knowledge to offer advice to younger men:

1. You cannot possibly see yourself as a person of the opposite sex sees you. Have you ever been mystified as to why women flock to a certain man who seems to have nothing going for him? Well, women get mystified, too, when they hear men raving over how hot a certain woman is who looks non-descript to other women.

Therefore--and this takes guts, but maybe you're ready for desperate remedies--consult a female platonic friend and ask her how you come across to the opposite sex. What you hear may be hard to take, but I promise that it will be enlightening.

2. If you don't have platonic female friends, work on that first. If you radiate those "oh, my God, I don't know what to say to those alien female creatures" vibes, you're going to come off as desperate, and any woman who has ever had a stalker experience is going to run away from any sign of desperation.

My best relationships came about when I was relaxed and just naturally drifted into flirting mode.

3. Figure out what kind of woman you want to get together with. Then figure out where such women are likely to be. If you're outdoorsy, join a hiking club. If you're into the arts, join a choir or theater group. Volunteer for a charity program--in my experience, most volunteers are women or gay men. Whatever you're interested in, there's undoubtedly an organization for it.

But don't make the mistake of showing up once, deciding that SHE isn't there, and leaving, never to return. If you enjoy the activity, stay and concentrate on making more friends. If nothing else, you'll fill up some time in the week, and you can never have too many friends. They may even know someone who is perfect for you. (I met one long-term S.O. at a party given by some friends.)

4. I tried online dating and personals four or five times in the past ten years, and the score is one platonic friend and one short-term relationship. You have to contend with the fact that people LIE in their ads or seem sane on paper and turn out to be crazy in person. Some people strike gold, but on the whole, going the personals route seems like having to kiss an excessive number of frogs before find your prince or princess.

5. Do not rely on what "the guys" tell you. In most cases, their suggestions are, frankly, stupid, and will turn off anyone who's not just out for a one-night stand.

[Patiod]

31. True story about your #3 and #5

Knew an (aggressively) hetero guy who joined a singing/theater group. His (Neanderthal) friends gave him no end of grief about being a "fairy"

He said "Let me see - I'm in a group where the women outnumber the men by 3:1, and half the guys are gay. As a consequence, I've dated about 8 really great women from the group, and never have any problem getting laid. You, on the other hand, spend most of your time at sports bars with other men and never seem to have a date. And yet, I'm gay?" Crude yes, but the point being that activities that attract women are a great place to MEET women. He didn't meet his wife there, but he met his wife's sister (who later introduced him to his wife) plus he made a lot of good friends.

Your suggestion #2 about learning to talk to women is crucial. One of my best friends and I discovered we were seeing the same guy one summer. Later, his roommates cornered us, and said "you HAVE to explain this to us. He's not that good looking, he doesn't seem to have much of a rap, he doesn't dress well - so why does he have so many good-looking women around him all the time?" We answered "he listens". "What?" "When you tell Brian that your mom is in town, the next time he sees you, he asks how your mom enjoyed her visit. He actually looks at you when he talks, and pays attention to what you're saying. And he doesn't think women want to talk about sports all the time." He was also physically affectionate without being inappropriately sexual -- he would grab you around the waist or by the wrist and pull you over closer, but wouldn't paw and grope. But we didn't get into that, since his friends were struggling so hard with the concept of actually listening to women.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

32. Yes, the secret of the inexplicably popular men is that

they are friendly and genuinely interested in women, including those they're not trying to get into bed with.

One of the first such men I knew was overweight, socially conservative, and a bit dorky, but he was always surrounded by women, much to the mystification of other men. The reason? He was genuinely egalitarian. Where some men, even in graduate school, were intimidated by the fact that their female fellow students were as smart as they were, this guy seemed to delight in the company of intelligent women.

The young men who whine, "But I'm nice to women," may have an underlying tone to their behavior that says, "I'm being nice to you. Now will you fall in love with me?" That's not niceness. That's manipulation.

[grace0418]

64. ***DING DING DING! That is sooooooooooooo TRUE!***

So many guys need to learn this lesson. Be as nice to women as you would be to men. Be nice to women even if you're not attracted to them. I swear, it works. I have never been considered terribly attractive (being overweight, which is the kiss of death for any woman) but my best friend is adorable. I cannot tell you the number of times a guy would be trying to hit on my friend in social settings and would act like I was completely invisible or (worse yet) look at me with contempt. I'm not talking about situations that men complain about where women clump together and make it impossible for a man to ask one of them out. I'm talking about parties where large groups of people are conversing, or public events where the point is to see or hear something, not get dates. My friend would immediately dismiss any guy who couldn't be cordial or at least civil to everyone in the group.

[idgiehkt]

73. true

I just wonder is it possible to teach men to like women? Is it possible to teach the men who 'act nice to get what they want' to genuninely experience the humanity of people they regard as T&A plus vagina? Plus there are men out there with deep, deep resentment toward females that really needs to be addressed in therapy. I'm not questioning your post, just kind of wondering out loud.

Plus it seems like there are several men here who are saying they have great success by acting and dressing a certain way, and projecting a certain image. I don't know whether success is defined by sexual conquest, dates, or romantic relationships. This thread is very confusing to me; some people are advocating 'being real', which normally would be my approach, and others are saying 'do it this way', based on their successes with doing it that way. I'm just glad I'm not on the receiving end of the advice; my head would be spinning around by now.

[Crabby Appleton]

37. Hey, I'm sane on paper

[SoyCat]

26. Take care of yourself and do the things that make you happy and eventually,

you will find companionship that just might lead to love.

1. Pursue hobbies and activities you enjoy. Don't do things *just* to find a mate
2. Nurture your own health (physically and mentally)
3. Read. Knowledge can only help.
4. Trim nose hair and ear hair. Any guy over 30 knows what I mean. My husband is quite sexy but that could change quickly if he ever lost his nose hair trimmer. Just sayin';-)
5. Go to concerts because live music events are so much fun and you just might meet someone interesting in the process.
6. Keep your nails and toenails well-groomed. Scary nails are a turn-off.
7. Don't mope because women can smell desperation. Sadly, a small percentage of women might actually want to date you because they sense desperation and will try to use you for money/gifts.
8. Two words: Dental health.
9. Outdoor activities will benefit you. How can you obsess about sad things when you're out hiking or swimming? Enjoy nature.
10. Take heart. My best friend who admitted that he's "got no game" now, has a girlfriend. It can happen and I have a feeling *it will*.

[NewJeffCT]

27. Dude, I met my first serious g/f when I was 30

and I ended up marrying her... and divorcing a year later.

I had had some dates before that, but nothing too serious (though, I had really liked some women that did not reciprocate my liking of them)

It's not the end of the world that you don't have a girlfriend or boyfriend by your mid 20s. You're in your mid 20s - go out and sow some wild oats. It'll make you feel better, and you'll be relaxed and better able to recognize Mr. or Miss Right when they come along.

[Taverner]

28. Check out DemocraticSingles.net

Seriously - I checked it out for a friend and it is overflowing with progressive women.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

33. I've looked at DemocraticSingles.com, and many of the men make a HUGE

mistake. In the part that says, "Tell about yourself," they launch into a political tirade, sometimes a multi-paragraph sermon, against Bush. The end. Nothing about their personalities or interests.

I think any left-of-center woman going onto such a website would assume that opposition to the Bush administration was a minimum requirement. She wants to know what makes each man unique and interesting, not that he agrees with 99.9% of Democrats (the 0.1% being Lieberman).

Anyway, I'm going to argue against going online until one is comfortable with the opposite sex face-to-face. If you radiate feelings of unworthiness or nervousness, that's going to be intensified in the all-or-nothing world of online dating. People who do poorly in the conventional dating scene often do better in more casual, low-pressure situations.

[Taverner]

44. Well then just pick the cute ones

...and get to know them by email for a while :)

[toadzilla]

29. im 25 and lacking a significant other aswell.

which is why i got a puppy.

[pitohui]

34. wow -- please don't be depressed and here's why

let me suggest something -- if you have not had a girlfriend in 25 years after it's "probably been like over 20 people i've asked out or shown interest in" -- let me suggest that you are asking a girl out on a date less than ONCE a year

no wonder you haven't had success

people who have relationships prior to developing those relationships might get shot down as many times in a month as you have been shot down in your entire life, 20 rejections is not a lot when you consider the billions of women in the world


you haven't even put yourself on the line, you have no reason to think you can't succeed because you haven't even been out there swinging the bat at the ball

you can do this, but you should be going out and asking a potential partner out 2 or 3 times a week -- not 20 times in 25 years

your belated new year's resolution should be at a minimum to ask for 50 dates, at least every week ask someone for a date or a phone number or SOMETHING

you might get shot down 49 times to get to the frog who's a princess

or the first time you ask, you might get the woman who's interested in saying "yes" the other 49 remaining weeks of the year

never know until you try

[CrazyForKucinich]

47. Good advice...

I'll probably take it...

[momophile]

68. my Dad used to say to me that you need to ask 100 to

get one yes. Of course, he was in sales, but pitohui is right - 20 is not a lot in 25 years.

and just to let you know, I didn't date for years and then met my match at age 30. it does happen.

hang in there.:hug:

[Deja Q]

35. 34 here and in the same boat as you. I'll tell you something shocking about me:

I used to always ask myself "What's wrong with me". Though I still ask it, but not as often. Partly because I now DO know some of the answers. Partly because I shouldn't have had high morals back then...

I even broke my moral code to do a one-night stand before killing myself. And I was age 25 at the time. I stopped in the middle of it; too terrified to get any STD. The irony is almost silly.

The next day I didn't attempt suicide. Not sure why. And, luckily, to this day I'm still clean. But I refuse to lower my standards to risk a humiliating disease because too many others haven't the time to make something real. And, after a certain age, people aren't going to want ya anymore. It's as simple as that. After a certain age, it's impossible to find a person anyway. Personality characteristics plus physical weaknesses turn many people off.

Even the way the world is heading,I stopped myself from committing suicide 7 months ago. I found a new talent that may make me useful in this world again.

The loneliness will always be there for me. I know I have nobody in real life to rely on. But there's cyberspace and the people within. And I don't mean in an X-rated way.

And that's the key. Forget people. Too many get divorces and too many complain about their ex being a pile of sleaze or whatever. Do you want to get involved with somebody who will likely break up the moment it becomes inconvenient and then start saying nasty things?

We need to build our own lives and not think of others, in that respect.

Or we can still lament about our situation that may or may not change; life is a roll of the dice. Unlucky at love means we're luckier at being able to do something else. And the way people are in today's society, I would even fear that we, you and I and others like us, are better off.

[hfojvt]

40. I do not think this is true

Although my own record is 45 years without any sex. I had a couple of chances that I turned down (and to be frank, the 2nd time I really did not have the $10).

I did not have my first date until I was 28. I have not had one recently since 1998 when I moved.

But as to this: "And, after a certain age, people aren't going to want ya anymore. It's as simple as that. After a certain age, it's impossible to find a person anyway."

As a hetero male, in my experience there are alot of single women over the age of 60. Not always repulsive either. The woman I danced with all night at the employee part was over 55 (I think) but still quite attractive.

So I think if you get to be 45 and date a divorcee or widow or single woman who is 10 years older than you that she is not going to be overly concerned about your looks.

At least half of the time I do not care that I am single. I think about how bossy and cranky other people are and think that I am probably better off. Because I do not have kids, I am partially retired before the age of 45. I am only working part time now.

I also relaxed quite a bit when I accepted my apparent fate. The gods or whatever have spoken, damn them.

[Deja Q]

56. The truth is in the middle...

I'll let you know after my 45th birthday what happens. Some get lucky, other's don't. Pardon the pun, I don't do the one-night garbage anymore. Never really did either, but it's better NOT to do. (though some live by it and it's okay by them too.)

With luck I'll be in the same boat. If not, oh well. The point is, we should enjoy life with our talents while we've got it. Searching does little good. Waiting for someone is even worse. It just happens. That's what people have told me. That's just how life is.

[lukasahero]

54. If I may re: "after a certain age, people aren't going to want ya anymore. It's as simple as that."

I met my husband when he was 49 years old. We married 5 years later. (He had never been married previously and had only one truly significant relationship prior.)

You are right to learn to be comfortable with your life but issuing blankets statements of doom to others who are searching for a different life is, well, actually, just hurtful.

[Deja Q]

55. Oh, and I'm not searching for a different life?

I have posted posts very similar to the OP and I've been in the same boat. To tears. Often enough. I can empathize in ways you cannot.

People have told me what I have told him. How come I'm being pissed on and they weren't?

(apart from the "be comfortable with one's self" which is the truth, regardless.)

I am still "looking", though not so consciously hard to do so. Or, to sound less stern, the phrase "Expect the worst but keep some hope for the best" is the moral of my original response. I used the same stern language on myself because, again, I've been in his shoes and I've told him what others told me.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

39. All y'all got to stop worrying so, for 2 reasons.

1) Worrying doesn't solve a damned fucking thing, no matter what you previously thought. Worrying and fretting isn't going to bring you love any more quickly or any more slowly. Why waste time and breath doing so when you could be doing something constructive?

2) Believe it or not, plenty of people marry at advanced ages. I know a woman who was married (albeit for the 2nd time) at age 48 or 49--I'm not sure which. I think she was married the first time young and then divorced fairly quickly, so she was out there for a long time alone (or fairly so) as well.

Peace.

:hug:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

41. I know a woman who married for the first time at age 52 and

another who didn't find her One and Only till she was over 70.

[CBHagman]

70. Here's one who married for the first time at age 52.

Yes, it's Helen Mirren, and while her dating pool may be different from ours, she still sprinkles hope like fairy dust on the rest of us mortals. Long live the queen!

[RFKHumphreyObama]

42. No, I'm even older and that's the case

I'm 26 and have had no significant other

I feel your pain:hug: All the best to you :hug:

[AlanAdam]

43. I married for the first time at 49 ...

Here's my advice. Many people who try hard but can't seem to find a longlasting (or any) SO have some psychological roadblock that either causes others to be turned off or causes themselves to sabotage any possible relationships. Such a person can't recognize it in themselves, and their friends, if they are aware of it, generally won't risk the friendship by telling them, or the friends don't know how to help after telling. Insanity is doing the same things while expecting different results. That's what I did, wasting nearly three decades. I finally went to see a counselor. You pay him to help you and be honest with you, and hopefully he is skilled enough to do just that. He's not your friend, so he can risk telling you things you may not want to hear. If you had a persistent pain you would go to an MD, wouldn't you? Yes, it's hard to part with the money to pay a counselor with no results guaranteed. But if finding an SO is that important to you, isn't it worth a try? Just ask him if there's some psychological roadblock keeping you from finding a mate? For me there was such a roadblock, and I never know it for all those long lonely years. The fix wasn't easy, and it wasn't quick, but oh what a difference it's made. I married my beloved three years ago at 49.

[raccoon]

52. Good post. And sometimes, though we crave intimacy, we also fear it. nt

[AlanAdam]

65. What makes it so difficult is ...

that many people (like me) consciously want a relationship, but are unaware of how deep run the roots of fear, and have little if any awareness of the real source of that fear. Sometimes these are problems that can only be addressed with the help of a professional. My fears, that I thought had their source in rejection by girls during puberty, were instead really due to parental rejection. When I finally realized this at age 42, and worked to resolve it with my parents (very difficult for me to do -- involved half confrontation and half forgiveness/acceptance) my fear of rejection greatly reduced. It's not quick and easy. I had two counselors. My first one suggested that I accept singlehood, and that the amount of work required to become ready for marriage might be too great given my age. I said that I was willing to do whatever was required. Total lenght of time healing emotionally through on-and-ff counseling was about six years. For the first two years I cried almost once a week. I almost never cried for the preceding 40 years. The human psyche is so complex and so fragile. I hope averyone who has experienced repeating cycles of relationship failures would not discount that there may be something psychological below the surface holding them back that they are just not aware of. I have experienced five years of happiness now, and not just because I have someone; it's also because so much subconscious pain is gone. I wish the same for everyone.

[MikeH]

45. I am struggling with feelings of having missed the boat when I was young

I had a lot of problems when I was young, most particularly problems in high school and problems with a difficult and domineering father. I have dealt with the problems I had when I was young, but am left with feeling that as a result of my problems I missed the boat as far as women are concerned when I was young. I just recently turned 56.

In high school there was a girl who seemed to have a crush on me; she was in one of my math classes and in the class year ahead of me. I was one of the math brains at my school, and she seemed to take a liking to me, and always said hi to me when she saw me in the hall.

I was also one of those people who was teased a lot by those inclined to do so, and I had a hard time feeling good or OK about myself, and as a result I never approached this girl or made any advances to her myself. She graduated the year before I did, and after she graduated I was not to see her until years later, which I will explain.

I remember feeling very depressed during my senior year in high school, with the problems I still had, and with this girl being gone.

In college and subsequently I was haunted by the memory of this girl that I did not get to know, and that affected my feelings and my desire and ability to relate to other women.

Two years after I graduated from high school, in the middle of college, I moved with my family from Illinois to San Diego, California, and transferred to a new college. In some ways that turned out to be a good move for me, starting over at a new place. However I was not going to be able to resolve my high school issues, and I would always wonder and think about that one girl.

My dad died when I was in my mid-30's, and I came to fully realize about a year after he died how angry I still was at him, and the abusive nature of much of his behavior. I was in much therapy to deal with my issues with him. It helped me a lot to become fully aware of the truth that yes, my dad was abusive at times, and it was not just something wrong with me that I had problems with him.

I have been back to several high school reunions back in Illinois, starting with my 20th. Going back to my reunions, and being able to interact with my high school classmates, did a lot to help me to resolve and be at peace about my painful high school experience.

With some help I was able to locate the girl who had a crush on me in high school. It turned out she was married, and lived in a town close to where I went to high school. She and her husband were agreeable to my visiting them, which I did during the time I was back for my 20 year reunion. I had a pleasant time with them, and liked her husband. No sparks flew between me and the girl; she loved her husband. However I was able to achieve closure and be at peace about not getting to know this girl. I was no longer haunted by the memory of her.

Even with that, there were some other reasons for not having relationships with women, some of them my own choice. I had wanted to do some things for myself before having a relationship with a woman, the biggest of which was to take a trip to Europe, particularly Germany, which I finally did in 1997 at the age of 46; I visited Germany and Austria.

After having had a good job for many years, I was part of a large layoff in late 1998, and since then I had been working on a consulting basis, which has not always been continuous, and am presently between jobs. So right now I have the job and money situation. And I had some bad and painful experiences at some of my early jobs, which were another one of my problems when I was young.

I have been active in various singles groups over the years; church and Christian groups when I was younger (and when I was still a Christian), and more recently with the San Diego Tall Club and the Sierra Club. I have gone on many, many hikes with the Sierra Club, which is something I enjoy doing.

Recently I have gotten involved with my local Democratic Club.

In the 1990's I went to many music concerts, since I love classical music, but have not been to any recently because of my job and money situation.

I have enjoyed my singles activities and have met and become friends with a number of women.

I have never wanted to pressure myself or let myself be pressured about finding the right woman, or about anything else for that matter.

I feel that I am now in my life where I wish I had been when I was in my 30's or 40's. I have some feelings about being handicapped as far as any search for women is concerned by my lack of relationships when I was younger, and by my current job situation.

However I realize there are many worse things than not having or having had a serious relationship. I realize it is possible for people to be involved in very messy or toxic relationships, or to have problems with unintended pregnancies or disease. And I realize that I like and am comfortable with the advantages of being single.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

46. Your post is beautiful...

You say you're struggling, yet it sounds like you go with the ebb and flow of life with dignity and grace. Maybe that comes with accepting that some things are meant to be struggled with?

Anyway, let me know if you ever plane to visit the Washington DC area. I may be able to get you tickets to some good concerts.
:hi:

[MikeH]

80. Thanks very much for your very nice reply to me, GoddessOfGuinness

I was definitely not able to go with the ebb and flow of life with dignity and grace when I was young; being able to do that is something that has come with maturity, and having dealt with a lot of my personal issues. I think it is very true that some things are meant to be struggled with.

I was in Washington DC once when I was a teenager; I haven't been back since, and right now it isn't very likely I will be going there any time soon. I have had other places that have been higher in my priority list of places I have wanted to visit. However, I do have a brother who lives and works there, as well as one good friend, a former work colleague. Thanks very much for your nice offer.:-)

[hickman]

48. CrazyForKucinich left the building 24 hours ago.

I know it's snarky but I don't like talking to people who aren't talking back. Go ahead and call me persnickety.:P

[idgiehkt]

50. .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=6105470&mesg_id=6109548

[hickman]

83. My mistake, sorry. n/t

[CrazyForKucinich]

51. I've read more than 3/4 of the replies...and

had a long extended comment but for some reason didn't go through.

Anyhow...I'm feeling a bit better. Just started a new job and there's lots of cute long ladies there...maybe something will happen there...I dunno. I'm a fatalistic person that really doesn't help matters much...I just need to think positive thoughts and probably not get so attached so quickly to people. I find it very easy to love people...which probably also doesn't help...so yeah. I'll keep reading and thanks to those who have responded with their stories as well. They've helped a lot.

[Deja Q]

58. Don't be fatalistic. But I otherwise like your response here.

Don't get quickly attached; let it build. I have that same, exact problem as you. And have positive thoughts - but keep them in check. Don't turn optimism into an expectation or anything else that isn't realistic. The reality is, love may never happen for us. We're not all destined to get that special kiss. (before anybody pisses on me, I've been told that too. As with the other comments, here on DU too.)

The difference is, don't let a want take over your life. It'll ruin you. It'd ruin anybody. And it nearly ruined me.

Expect the worst, but hope for the best. That way, if you are rejected, you won't become dejected and it's easier to get back up and try again. That's one thing I've learned the hard way, and am still learning...

[deepthought42]

53. So I'm not the only one...

24 1/2 year old young woman...no dates. No kisses. Definately no boyfriends. At times I feel incredibly lonely and wonder why I can't meet anyone I'd actually have feelings for. Other times I don't care; you get used to being alone, you just don't always like it. At least that's how it is for me.

:hug:

[EstimatedProphet]

57. I've been there, in a smaller scale

It was about 10 years for me.

I can only speak to my problems. I was specifically attracted to women who were attention-needy. And what would set it off, is that they would start to pay special attention to me, which would get me involved, and then not be there to follow up when things would get more serious. Then they would act like "Why would you think I would be interested in you?!?" and bounce off to pull the same shit on somebody else. I went through that at least a dozen times. I finally saw the problem, and what I was doing to encourage it, and made the choice to stop it. It took a while, but I'm glad I did because I never could have had the relationship I have now with my wife if I hadn't.

This may or may not be your problem. I can't know. What I can know is - if this is a repeating problem then almost assuredly you are doing something to keep it going. There is likely some aspect that is emotionally charging to some part of your personality, or else you would have moved on by now. This is not meant as a criticism, it is meant as guidance. Engage in some real self-speculation, and determine what your feelings were, all of them, when you engaged in relationships. How did you feel at the different stages, or when certain things happened? Try to make note of these feelings as much as you can, and see if they point to a repeating issue. This may help you work out what is going on to make you pick relationships which are unproductive.

Best of luck to you, and don't give up.

[speedoo]

61. Your post is full of wisdom.

Wonderful advice, not just for the OP, but for anyone looking for a relationship.

Thanks.

[bikebloke]

59. I adapted to solitude

I'm a freak magnet and got tired of weirdos for company. With Europeans and Aussies, we click easily. Whether it's values, personalities or whatever, our frequencies mesh. Over here, I kept running into mediocre company. And it's just not worth it anymore, even for a leg over. The personals didn't work, though I have a couple profiles still up. So I learned to be content with my own company and activities. Anyway, considering the parents I had, maybe it's better I don't hook up and perhaps eventually breed.

[Jamastiene]

60. Maybe you could increase your odds.

Statisticly speaking, asking 20 people in 25 years means less than 1 a year. Try asking more women out and see if you can at least have some company and a nice time with someone. That's what I have heard anyhow. Who knows? Maybe in those cases it just wasn't meant to be. Try smarter, not harder to get a date and don't beat yourself up. In the meantime, get a puppy and take it for lots of walks and spend lots of time with it. Pets can really fill the void and provide unconditional love. Good luck to ya.

[Taverner]

62. Do online dating

Honestly - you'll communicate just as well as you do here, and that will impress whomever you're trying to impress

[zonkers]

63. Quit asking girls out. Wrong move. Way too much expectation on "dates".

[Shananigans]

66. Dating for 25 years?

How old ARE you? But trust me, I understand. Dating sucks!

[datasuspect]

67. you need the counsel of smoove b

http://www.theonion.com/content/columnists/view/smoove

[taught_me_patience]

69. I'm going to give you very serious advice

from a 28 year old who used to have problems dating.

1) If you really are 0-20, then you need to change your strategy immediately.

2) Focus on yourself first. Women hate men who are:
insecure
boring
timid
unknowledgeable
Join a gym. Read the paper every day. Focus on career improvement. Get a hobby,

3) You have to play the game to be in the game. You have to get your foot in the door. Dating is a numbers game and YOU DO NOT WANT TO ELIMINATE POTENTIAL CANDIDATES.
It may sound shallow but you must dress well.
Dress clean while at work and funky and chic when on dates.
check out some fashion magazines and spend some money on new clothes.
Buy a nice pair of jeans and make sure they are tight (Seven is good at Nordstrom Rack for $70).
Buy nice shoes (I highly recommend cole haan).
Groom well and wear a nice anti-perspirant.
Unfortunately, a lot of quality women are bombarded by male attention. For pragmatical reasons, they have to make snap decisions on whether you are date worthy. Often, it ends up being based on looks. The whole key is to look good enough to get your foot in the door, where you can discover whether your personalities match.

4) Its a numbers game. If you are not on Match.com, then get on there immediately and pay for 6 months. I met my current gf on there.

5) DO NOT ELIMINATE CANDIDATES BEFORE YOU GO ON A DATE. Dates are for learning about people. You need to go on as many dates as possible. You learn a lot about people in general (and its a lot of fun! you can laugh at yourself after the bad dates!) Later, when you are more experienced, you can be more selective about who you actually want to date.

6) Do not act desperate. This has to be the biggest turn-off for women ever. Wome like confidence and intrigue. If you get a number, DO NOT CALL right away. Do not call right away after the first date (although, a good trick is to text message them after the date thanking them and saying you had a good time).

7) When on match.com, do not drag out the email process. I hear of so many people that email for weeks on end. Do not do this. Email twice, then ask for her #.

8) Build a repertoir of interesting stories, see #2.

9) Women like wit. Unfortunately, developing wit comes with practice.

10) Do not date women at work! Absolutely not under any circumstances.

pm me if you'd like more advice. I feel for you, as I was once in your position. Good luck!

taught.

[Evoman]

71. best advice on this thread!

I agree with everything T_O_P has said. Some points:

1)Confidence is IT. It is what makes the ugly man dateable, and the good looking man a god, hehe. One of the BEST ways to gain confidence is to go to the gym and start putting on muscle. And don't tell yourself "you don't have time" or "I don't have the body type" etc...its all bullshit. Go to the gym, and do heavy weights, low reps. Eat like a motherfucker (unless your overweight...in that case, you may have to do some high intensity cardio as well to lose the weight and eat less, for awhile). Muscle builds confidence. Muscles is sexy. Muscle makes you alpha.

2)You gotta stop crying, you gotta stop whining, you gotta stop the emotional stuff (unless your home and nobodies around...but even then, that shit will only make you feel worse). Nobody finds desperation attractive, and if your desperate (unless your a hell of an actor), its going to show. How do you overcome this? Keep yourself so busy you can't whine...get out and do shit. Join community groups, join an amateur acting troupe if your town has one.

3)Learn to talk to women. TALK TO ALL WOMEN, ALL THE TIME. Find a women you are not attracted to, and practice your conversation skills. If she has a husband or boyfriend, even better...you can practice your flirting without giving her the wrong idea. Try to make some women friends...they will make you more comfortable in talking to women, and this will help you when it comes time to flirting with women you like. If you have problems making friends with younger women, make friends with older women.

4)If your interested in someone, approach subtly, and don't tell your target much about yourself. Keep yourself mysterious. Tell them "just enough" to intrigue them. Blabbing about yourself incessenantly is not the way to build attraction.

5)Separate women you feel attracted to, from women you want to "just as friends" and DO NOT put the former into the latter group. It is not only unfair to the women to become friends with her, in order to date her in the future, but it is also EXTREMELY hard to get out of the friend zone.

6)You need to slowly "build up steel balls", to use a in-PC term. You can do this with baby steps....approach women you don't know and just ask them out. You will, of course, be rejected...but it will build up much needed scar tissue, and pretty soon you won't give a shit anymore and will find it easy. Is that too hard? Well, build it in other ways. I was really shy in HS. It got me no where...now, I don't much care to be embarrased or rejected. It has helped me immensly. About four years back, I went to a karaoke bar, went right up and sang "Tarzan boy" (where I acted like an idiot and even pounded my chest while doing the tarzan call). Then I finished the night with a dancing rendition of "I'm too sexy". I got MAD numbers that night...acting fearless will get you A LOT of attention.

If you need any more advice, just let me know.

[Downtown Hound]

78. This is some mighty fine advice here

The OP would do well to listen. And I could not concur more about no dating at work. It never, EVER ends well, and more often than not it will result in one or both of you leaving your jobs, either by your own choice or not.

[applegrove]

72. Get online at one of the dating sites dude. Ask out the people who

are making themselves available. Seems like nobody has given you a chance. It gets harder the older you are. So sign up and started chatting at one of the online sites. I know of a few people (some in their 60s) who have found love that way.

[misanthrope]

74. Lots of comments in this thread...

...and a lot of them aren't as honest as they think they are.

For one thing, the remarks from women all skirt around what I've found is the most integral issue for females. Women like to talk a lot about being attracted to intelligence and humor and what not but the bottom line for most of them is financial security.

It's a matter of anthropology. Men are R-selected; women are K-selected. As such, women generally have a deeply ingrained desire to find a network of support and in relationship talk that means a man who can take care of them. Hundreds of thousands of years of natural selection have determined this and all the contemporary chatter and psychobabble in the world won't change it. There has to be a minimum level of material comfort involved or the field of interested women is going to shrink so much as to be nearly non-existent.

Take my word for it. I'm 43 and have seen a lot of this in practice around me for decades. Women avoid poor men like the plague. A man could look like George Clooney, possess the intelligence of Stephen Hawking and the wit of Jerry Seinfeld but unless he's making a certain amount of money, he's not going to do well in the relationship department. He might get laid time to time, but he's not going to have too many women beating down the weathered door to his meager home. That's why so many of the things others mentioned in this thread--manner of dress, healthcare and hygiene, intelligence, appearance, attitude--all come into play is because to women those are all indicators of a man's financial status and earning potential.

And if you're not materialistic, get ready for a long, hard road in life in many ways other than just personal relationships. It doesn't mean you can't be happy in spiritual or psychological ways, but it's going to be damn hard.

I know that stinks and it sounds harsh, but it's merely the ugly truth many don't want to face and explains why humanity has made its world the cesspool it is.

And there are worse fates than being alone. Try being married to someone who drives you up the wall for starters.

I'm sure if you took the time to look around, you could find others in far bleaker circumstances than you. It could always be worse.

In a lot of ways, getting a dog isn't so bad. They love you unconditionally (provided you don't abuse them) and don't get hung up on all the superficial garbage that most people do. They don't care what you say, don't care how you dress, what kind of car you drive, how much you make or whether you look as good as the next guy. If you show them love and loyalty, that's all that matters to them.

And that, my friend, is better than the vast majority of homo sapiens walking the planet.

[PassingFair]

75. Evolve much, Misanthrope?

Here's a buck:



Go buy yourself a CLUE: Sisters are doing it for themselves.

We ACTUALLY have J-O-B-S now.

51% of us are SINGLE -- by CHOICE!!

We have husbands that stay home and watch the kids,
sometimes we DON'T EVEN HAVE KIDS!!!!

Just thought I'd clue you in.....

[misanthrope]

76. Case in point...

...the touchiness elicited by my post.

While there are no doubt a number of examples of women who fit PassingFair's archetype, there are just as many, if not more, who still cling to traditional mores and beliefs. It's a shame there aren't more like PassingFair suggests because if so, there would be fewer lonely guys.

One can also open up the marriage section of every Sunday paper in every town each week and find plenty of women who have bought into cultural stereotypes.

And for every working wife & mother determined to carve her own path by her own rules, we've all known plenty of women who put careers behind them to become "stay-at-home" mothers.

And if indeed 51% of women are single, how do we know for sure that's completely by choice and not circumstance? My bet is the percentage of humans who don't desire companionship, regardless of whether they find the "right" person or not, are much smaller than that.

I know what I've seen for most of my life, as anecdotal as it may be, and although I wish far greater than you may realize that it weren't true, a majority of women are still mighty impressed with wealth.

Or at least they are in the place I live.

[misanthrope]

79. Corollary...

...I've seen many women express the same sentiment as this DUer. This could easily be construed as corresponding to a genetic predisposition for women to be attracted to certain criteria attached to material success.

what constitutes "drive and ambition" and why are they important?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

77. Financial security is primary? No way!

I've been attracted to a rich man exactly ONCE in my life, and before I knew he was rich (he was an academic and living rather modestly), I was attracted to his wit and intelligence and quirky looks.

If Donald Trump came calling (not that he would), I'd tell him to get lost. I'm totally serious. I met too many wealthy assholes at Yale.

You need to change that "women are motivated by financial security" to "Gold diggers are motivated by financial security."

I rarely date these days, but it's not because of a lack of rich men. It's because of a lack of men who haven't bought into the Regular American Suburban Guy mode with all its materialism, conventional thinking, sports obsession, and stereotyped ideas of what "real men" do and don't do.

[idgiehkt]

84. I can relate to that

the sports thing I don't know if I could deal with. I don't think I've ever dated anyone well off. Well, unknowingly; I did have a relationship with a guy from Japan in college and I'm sure his family was very well off but I never really thought about it til just now. I can't deal with any kind of materialism or brand-consciousness. It freaks me out when people say "my mercedes" or "my bmw" when they could just say "my car". I don't know why people do that. I think what the poster may have been addressing is certain so-called high-maintenance women and the criteria they are drawn to in men. High maintenance being about the external. My two brothers both married high-maintenance women. One married for boobs and the other for a size zero blonde. Not that those are bad traits, in addition with others but these women have literally nothing else going for them. My brother with the boob wife gets ordered around and treated like crap, and my other brother...that's a never-ending saga but they had to go without water this week because it got turned off but she won't work. Before he met this girl there was a girl that worked with my sister that made around $50,000 a year at her job that my sister intro'd him to that was crazy about him. But she was around 40 pounds or so overweight (not sure of the exact number, just estimating from her appearance). My brother told my mom he wasn't interested in this girl because he wanted a 'thin wife'. Well, he got one. I am sad about both my brother's marriages. I suppose they both got what they wanted, so I'm happy for them in that respect; I just really would like to see both of them treated better. A LOT better, since they are the sole-breadwinners. Aye carumba, I don't know what the answer is.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

87. Yes, for every woman who is in a miserable marriage for having

married for wealth, there's a man in a miserable marriage for having married for looks--or for having an inexplicable attraction to heartless shrews.

:shrugs:

[MikeH]

81. misanthrope, do you know what the word tact means?

Have you even heard of the word?

Just in case you are not familiar with the word "tact", it basically means consideration and sensitivity in dealing with others so as to avoid giving offense.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/tact

Derivative words are tactful, meaning having or manifesting tact, and tactless, meaning lacking tact, undiplomatic, offensively blunt.

Even if what you said might have much truth, it is definitely very tactless and insensitive. Or certainly the manner in which you said it is, and especially the way in which you elaborated about it.

There are things that even if they are true, it is not always appropriate to say them, or if one does say them, they need to be said with tact and sensitivity.

For instance, do you think it is appropriate for a man to say to his wife, if she has just bought a new dress, that he saw a woman on the seedy side of town who had a dress just like that of his wife, even if that is true?

In saying what you said, you might as well have said that most women (or men) will not be attracted to a potential partner with a physical handicap. Probably true, but very unkind.

I feel strongly about this because I am struggling with the realization that, at age 56, I have not had any serious relationship with a woman, and I have not become as "successful", in a financial and materialistic sense, as many other men have become (and women as well). It is a disappointment that it has worked out this way for me. And a lot of it had to do with problems that I had when I was younger, as I described up thread. In particular, even though I had one very good job in the late 1980's and throughout the 1990's, I had some problems at my very first jobs. I screwed up badly at my first full time job, and I was not able to deal with it in a way that I was able to keep my dignity and self-respect. I am struggling with painful memories of these things as I look for a job now, as I realize that having a job will greatly help in increasing my odds as far as finding a woman is concerned.

And it should be noted during this present time of the * administration, that a lot of good jobs have been outsourced, and in general there is a widening gap between the rich and the poor. So it isn't always somebody's fault if he/she is not well off in this present day.

And yes, there are worse fates than being alone, and yes there are others in bleaker situations than I am. However I, and others, do not appreciate being preached to in the manner in which you did. Sometimes people, including myself, would like some words of encouragement, or at least some words of kindness and understanding, rather than a preachy, judgmental attitude.

I hope that in the future you can show more tact and sensitivity than you have showed in your posts in this thread.

[misanthrope]

86. You familiar with Woody Guthrie?...

...Woody had a way of rubbing people the wrong way because he had a contrarian streak and a tendency to give voice to inconvenient truths. His son Arlo once said of him, "He was a Jew among Gentiles and a Gentile among Jews."

In that way, I've always been able to relate to Woody. I'm familiar with that role and perspective. I've always had a tendency to give voice to minority views in any given situation regardless of the gymnastics of rationalization common among the participants. People always say they want honesty, but it's often not something they take very well.

I'm sorry you haven't been able to engage in the type personal relationships you have wished over these many years, but I think telling someone it's going to get better is tantamount to a lie. We don't know that it will get better. What we do know, however, is that perspective is all relative and if we really look at those who are worse off than we are, it can make our path seem less burdensome. You may wish to see it as proselytization, but that is not the intent.

Believe me, I can relate to your situation. I come from a childhood pockmarked with abandonment, molestation, insanity, emotional abuse, suicide and alienation on top of poverty. It has left me with some pretty serious problems in regard to emotional relationships and is a good deal of the reason I couldn't even sustain a relationship until I was almost 30 years old. I didn't get married until I was over 40 and now it is starting to look like that was a huge mistake.

However, mistakes seem to be my forte as my life has admittedly been an endless series of them. "Dear old Dad" even underlined that for the world when he stood to toast at my wedding and proceeded to make a joke of my life having been a long string of screw-ups.

On top of all of this, I have serious health issues that affect my employment status, career, quality of life and even threaten my life itself. It's likely I won't make it to the age you're at right now.

I live somewhere that makes me miserable in a myriad of ways and it looks as if I will never leave due to my overall situation and most days feel pretty bleak to me. I feel as if I'm slowly backsliding into a slick funnel with no real hope in sight.

And still, I'm luckier than my older brother. He never even made it out of the womb.

I'm not telling you this because I want anyone's f*@kin' pity as that does none of us any good at all. I'm just saying it so you'll know that I have some pretty ugly truths about myself that I have to face on a daily basis, things I'd rather view head-on than sugarcoat or deny. If my fate is desolate, then I'd rather see it for what it is and meet it in as unflinching a manner as I can.

Ultimately, the final verdict is that the concerns and tribulations of my miniscule life don't amount to jack in the big picture. I can worry about it all I want, but I'm just another puny primate in a massive string of life forms on this tiny rock orbiting a small star. All my worries and concerns are so insignificant as to be nonexistent.

And that is what frees me, not believing I'm special or blessed or any of that crap but realizing I just don't matter. It all goes on with or without me.

[Droopy]

82. No one person can tell you what all other people want

Everybody without a penis is different. Guys just want one thing in the end so we're throwing them out of the equation.

Seriously, man, I used to be like you. I am now 34 and I enjoy being single. I've talked to many hitched guys who are jealous of my single status. I'll give you one bit of advice: don't get the thoughts of the little head and the big head mixed up. The little head may have you thinking that you need to be in love when in the end he just wants to boink.