Need help with Hitler quote - Mein Kampf

[Nomad559]

I need some help with a debate I'm having with a freeper on another forum, he states that Adolph Hitler was not a Christian because of a quote by Hitler In the book Mein Kampf.

Christianity Is a religion for weaklings

I posted a couple of links showing that Hitler was Indeed a Christian, and that he Invoked God Into many of his speeches.

Speeches

Quotes

He Ignored those links, and still Insists that Hitler was not a Christian because of the quote In Mein Kampf.

He has never shown me any proof that Hitler actually made that statement, and I can not find the quote In Mein Kampf.

I did a google search for the quote, and I could only find It on Rightwing Christian websites.

I did find a quote similar to the supposed Hitler quote .. "Rosenberg viewed Christianity in its present form as a moral code of weaklings" - ( Alfred Rosenberg ) 1937


Does anyone know If Adolph Hitler actually said this? and If so, where and when did he make It.


Thanks .. Tim

[Blecht]

1. This link may help you

http://www.sullivan-county.com/nf0/hitler/hitler1.htm

And maybe your thread is better suited to the General Discussion forum ...

[rudeboy666]

2. Hitler was an opportunist

Do not forget that.

Any supposed 'christianity' on his part is always suspect.

I think that that quote(assuming Hitler said it) was probably inspired by Nietzsche(again, Hitler co-opting 'Nietzschiean' themes).

[Kayla]

3. The fact is

Hitler and the Nazis considered themselves to be Christians and Christians want to consider them not to have been. It's really semantics. What difference does it make? Not much. People pervert religion as the Nazis did; others want to make any such connection just disappear. You can supply a high-minded response about moral relativity and denial and blah blah blah...it won't change anyone's minds...

---------

"Today Christians ... stand at the head of Germany ... I pledge that I never will tie myself to parties who want to destroy Christianity .. We want to fill our culture again with the Christian spirit ... We want to burn out all the recent immoral developments in literature, in the theater, and in the press - in short, we want to burn out the poison of immorality which has entered into our whole life and culture as a result of liberal excess during the past ... (few) years." - Adolf Hitler. Ibid, pg. 871-872.

"They each supported Hitler openly, enthusiastically, and with little restraint." In fact, they deemed it the Christian thing to do. They "saw themselves and were seen by others as genuine Christians acting upon genuine Christian impulses." Furthermore, all three tended "to see God's hand in the elevation of Hitler to power." Hirsch was a member of the Nazi party and of the SS. The Nazi state, he said, should be accepted and supported by Christians as a tool of God's grace. To Althaus, Hitler's coming to power was "a gift and miracle of God." He taught that "we Christians know ourselves bound by God's will to the promotion of National Socialism."

cut

Bonhoeffer saw in the Nazi atrocities proof of God's curse on the Jews. "The church of Christ," he said, "has never lost sight of the thought that the 'chosen people,' who nailed the redeemer of the world to the cross, must bear the curse for its action through a long history of suffering." Bonhoeffer, in his lectures of 1934, recommended that the Jews should never be expelled from Europe. They should remain there so they can serve as exemplification of divine wrath.

The clergy will contend that the Holocaust happened because the Germans and the Nazis were "not real Christians." But renowned theologians in Germany believed that Nazism and its pogroms and programs were the will of God. The unreasoning clergy don't seem to realize what a devastating blow it is to the coherence of Christianity to admit that there is no agreement on what is and what is not Christian.

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Atlantis/3425/page372.htm

(edited for copyright law compliance)

[rudeboy666]

7. 'more facts'__don't forget the paganism

I'm not denying that many christians were Nazis(this is undeniable with the German population at large).

However, you must also recognize the role of paganism in the inner-circles of Nazi ideologists. Many of the founders of Nazism had eccentrict views regrading the 'mystical' greatness of the aryan, etc.

[arcane1]

10. no biggie, Christians co-opt 'paganism' all the time

Christmas trees, Valentines, etc...

[Sir_Shrek]

4. Just watch out...

You can invoke God without being a Christian.

[Caution]

5. that quote is Nietzsche IIRC (eom)

[Kamika]

6. I dont think he was christian

I think he was more into Thor and Odin and stuff.


Christianity isn't the right thing if you want to conquer Europe

[arcane1]

8. "Gott mit uns"?

:shrug:

[Kellanved]

15. that's Wehrmacht,/Prussia, not Nazi

"Gott mit uns" was on the German (Prussian) cannons and the belt buckles since before the 19th century. It was the motto on the Emperors's flag.

The Nazis started promoting chritianity, building alliances with the churches and the christian conservative party.
In later years they undermined the churches (voiding the protection offered earlier), hazed and terrorized christians in the SS (a shocking label , but monks etc. could not avoid being drafted into it)and the military , while creating their own Germanic religion, much of which looked as if they were making it up as they went.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

9. great question

i can't find where he said that exact quote, it sounds more like a paraphrasing. Quotes abound of Hitler's flip-flopping in this regard. It would seem that he understood how to harness the power of religion to centralize power for himself (hmm. . . sounds vaguely familiar.) Obviously he understood the power of belief, and the power of language - and harnessed both to meet his ends. Notice how he employed "Socialist" in his party's title, despite the fact that it was a conservative party that stood staunchly against "The Red Threat". He stood for whatever would ensure the further centralization of power into his hands. Some say the Swastika of the nazi party is a Cross design taken from a church in Austria.

Arguing with a Freeper on this issue is bound to get you stirred up, seeing as how, quite rightfully, nobody wants to take philosophical responsibility for Adolph Hitler. In the end, calling Hitler a Christian is like calling Mao or Stalin a Socialist - all of them employ the language of their respective philosophies - but their actions tell a different tale. A tale of megalomania.

[arcane1]

11. he said this, in MK Volume 1. chapter two

from the above link:


Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

12. BOGUS BOGUS BOGUS LIE LIE LIE BOGUS BOGUS BOGUS

Here is the entire English translation of Mein Kampf:

http://www.magister.msk.ru/library/politica/hitla002.htm

Search for "Christian" and look at each hit. NEVER the author badmouths Christianity. Much the contrary. It's not THAT many hits. Please do. Even I was surprised to find out how much Mr. Square Moustache sounded like a Religious Right USA Southerner. Here are a few paragraphs for your enjoyment:

(...)The Jew himself is the best example of the kind of product which this religious training evolves. His life is of this world only and his mentality is as foreign to the true spirit of Christianity as his character was foreign to the great Founder of this new creed two thousand years ago. And the Founder of Christianity made no secret indeed of His estimation of the Jewish people. When He found it necessary He drove those enemies of the human race out of the Temple of God; (...)

The greatness of Christianity did not arise from attempts to make compromises with those philosophical opinions of the ancient world which had some resemblance to its own doctrine, but in the unrelenting and fanatical proclamation and defence of its own teaching.(...)

How devoid of ideals and how ignoble is the whole contemporary system! The fact that the churches join in committing this sin against the image of God, even though they continue to emphasize the dignity of that image, is quite in keeping with their present activities. They talk about the Spirit, but they allow man, as the embodiment of the Spirit, to degenerate to the proletarian level. Then they look on with amazement when they realize how small is the influence of the Christian Faith in their own country and how depraved and ungodly is this riff-raff which is physically degenerate and therefore morally degenerate also. To balance this state of affairs they try to convert the Hottentots and the Zulus and the Kaffirs and to bestow on them the blessings of the Church. While our European people, God be praised and thanked, are left to become the victims of moral depravity, the pious missionary goes out to Central Africa and establishes missionary stations for negroes.(...)

It would better accord with noble human aspirations if our two Christian denominations would cease to bother the negroes with their preaching, which the negroes do not want and do not understand. It would be better if they left this work alone, and if, in its stead, they tried to teach people in Europe, kindly and seriously, that it is much more pleasing to God if a couple that is not of healthy stock were to show loving kindness to some poor orphan and become a father and mother to him, rather than give life to a sickly child that will be a cause of suffering and unhappiness to all.(...)

[Clark4VotingRights]

13. You should really ask Karl Rove

He sleeps with a copy of Mein Kampf under his pillow.

[ET Awful]

14. I would recommend reading this:

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-hitler.htm

Look at the section pertaining to christianity (last section of the essay) and look at the sources of the information in the footnotes. Some very revealing information there.

[Hubert Flottz]

16. Bush Invokes God in his silly selfserving bullshit too!

Bush and Hitler are Christian users, like Jerry and Pat! What people like that preach and what they practice are totally opposite things! It's called Hypocrisy! People like Bush, Dick Cheney, James BakerIII, Poppy Bush, Karl Rove and Hitler will say anything, do anything or claim anything to get what they want! God don't teach that way of life the Devil does!

[Faygo Kid]

17. Hitler was no Christian

Neither is Falwell for that matter (not to lump anyone, even him, into Hitler's category). These posts citing Hitler as an example of Christianity are disgusting. Read "Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" for an analysis of Hitler's "Christianity."

[arcane1]

18. "citing Hitler as an example of Christianity"?

who is doing that? I thought this thread was about Hitler's references and claims to Christianity, not that he somehow represents the religion

[Nomad559]

19. I agree

Hitler Is NOT an example of Christianity, Christians In general are very good people, some of my best friends are Christians. :)

Tom Metzger, the White Racist Leader Is also an Atheist, and he Is NOT an example of Atheism.

My apologies to anyone here that was offended by this post.

Thanks to everyone for your replies, they were very helpful.
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Lasso of Truth

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

20. Whoa

"Denying Hitler bashed Christianity in Mein Kampf" is VERY DIFFERENT from "citing Hitler as an example of Christianity".

And here's another link for you: http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/straw-man.html