We just got back from the emergency room vet

[GenDem]

My female Schipperke, Sidney, started acting very very strange this afternoon. First she pooped in the house right in front of us. She would never do that. When my husband was picking up the poop he saw a part of a Q-tip -- causing some concern. About a half hour later she started acting very bizarre. She looked like she was in pain -- holding her head down, moping, and acting lethargic. So we called the emergency number at the vets and brought her in.

She is deathly afraid of the vets office. As soon as we brought her in the adrenaline rush hit, and although she was in a a full blown anxiety attack, it was a relief to see because she was lively again. The vet took blood, did an X-ray, cavity check, and took her temp. Her temp was elevated, and her blood work came back with one elevated kidney number and one elevated liver number. All of her other kidney and liver functions were normal, as well as the rest of the blood workup. The X-ray showed nothing, so they pretty much ruled out another piece of Q-tip.

They prescribed an antibiotic and we are to watch her closely. Well, as soon as we got home she started acting lethargic and mopey again. My husband just took her up to bed. I'm worried.

The vet wondered if she was having mini seizures, like petty malls in humans. She sometimes goes into these little trance like states but they only last a few seconds.

I hate that they can't tell us what's bothering them, and we can't explain why a stranger is poking them with needles and sticking their finger up their but.

[AirmensMom]

1. Oh, I'm sorry.

:hug: I hope she gets better. Keep us updated, OK?

[GenDem]

2. Thanks, AirmensMom

appreciate your support!!! I'm sure we'll get to the bottom of it. :pals:

[AirmensMom]

3. I know how scary and frustrating it is

when furbabies get sick. :hug:

[Liberal Veteran]

4. My kitties and I send our love and good thoughts.

Hopefully, she'll be back to normal in no time.

My mother had pug that used to have seizures and we had to feed him a phenobarbital and cradle him until it passed.

[GenDem]

5. Thanks for the love from all of you!

[Shakespeare]

6. Those sound VERY much like petit mal seizures.

It's hard when our pets are ill--I hope she's better very soon!

[GenDem]

7. I've been noticing these episodes

for about a month now. She licks her lips when this is happening, and it is usually over within a few minutes. I've noticed it on three separate occasions. During these spells we can talk to her and call her and she will respond, but she is definitely not herself.

Todays thing may be a combination of a few things going on at once. The doctor said the fever was either from some kind of infection, or was spiking because she was so nervous being examined. :shrug:

Thanks!:hi:

[RevolutionStartsNow]

8. My thoughts are with you...my dog had seizures...

Started when she was about 8 or 9, and she lived a full long life. They never were able to really tell us what caused them, but she would go into a trance like you described, only it was sometimes quite dramatic, she would tremble and shake and look so frightened. It was awful. I would hold her head on my lap until it was over.

It was terrible to watch her suffer and not be able to help. But I think I did, just by being comforting and loving.

And as I said, it didn't shorten her life, as far I could tell.

I know how much I loved her, and how much I love my current dogs, so I'm with you in spirit. :hug:

[GenDem]

9. Sidney is 8

I hope that if this is what it is that it won't effect her longevity or her quality of life. She also has suffered with skin allergies. They think she is allergic to ragweed. This year, because of the mild start to the winter, she has been itchy much longer.


Schipperkes have been known to live to 30. They are one of the longest living breeds.

Thank you for your words of wisdom, RSN, I truly appreciate your support!
:pals:

[RevolutionStartsNow]

10. 30 years? Wow, that's amazing.

I remember our vet saying the seizures wouldn't shorten her life, though I suspect you're dealing with something different. My dog's seizures were pretty severe, I think; I don't think they shortened her life but I do think they affected her mentally in the long run.

Support is what we're here for!

And we dog lovers are a special breed unto ourselves, aren't we? These are my 2 dogs now, Zuma and Joey.



Joey (the black dog) has a problem with her esophagus and needs to be held upright for 20 minutes after every meal or large drink of water. My husband does this lovingly, at least twice a day. She was a shelter dog, found abandoned in a field, no doubt because of her condition. I came on DU the day before and posted that we were going to the shelter to get a new puppy (my kids were begging) and many people here encouraged me to choose an older dog instead, which we did, and I am so happy. Joey has such a good life now. :)

[GenDem]

14. Your dogs are beautiful!

Thank you so much! People may think I'm crazy to say this, but my dogs are right up there with my children. When we were taking her over last night I was in tears simply at the thought of them possibly deciding to keep her over night -- which they didn't, thank God. She has never slept out of a human bed since the day we brought her home.

That's why it is so hard to watch her acting so sick...because she does not want any human contact right now.

Your black dog looks a bit like Chelsea, a lab mix that we lost to kidney failure 6 years ago. She was a wonderful dog, too.

:pals:

[RevolutionStartsNow]

28. I don't think it's crazy at all...

I travel for work, and when I am on my way home I am just as excited to get home and see my dogs as my husband and kids (shhhh, don't tell them! Actually, they understand). My connection with my dog Zuma in particular (the white one in the pic) is very deep and very special. There is so much love.

How is your doggie doing tonight?

[InvisibleTouch]

11. Canine epilepsy/seizures:

My Pomeranian had seizures from the time he was a young puppy (he's 16 now, soon to be 17). I finally figured out that he was having an allergic reaction to soft-moist dog treats (Jerky Strips and the like) - something about the artificial colors and preservatives. When I cut those out and went to strictly crunchy treats, the seizures all but disappeared. When I switched him to a mostly raw/homecooked diet, he never had another one.

If you feed your Schipperkes any of these moist treats, try stopping those and see if it helps.

This is the very best book, to my knowledge, on raw/homecooked diet and natural health care:

http://www.amazon.com/Pitcairns-Complete-Guide-Natural-Health/dp/157954973X/sr=1-1/qid=1170051728/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-5512430-4778318?ie=UTF8&s=books

Hope Sidney feels better soon!

[Kali]

12. I'll echo the book rec. It will make you think about your own diet as well!

Good luck.

[GenDem]

13. Thank you so much.

I just went in and bought this at Amazon, and it will arrive in two days.

She has had a new treat! (Milk-Bone original dog treats --they have a soft middle) I teach an 9 year old home schooler art classes on Wednesday and she loves my dogs. She brought the new treats just last week.

This morning she is not acting any better. We gave her her antibiotic wrapped up in a small piece of turkey and she did eat it...but she hasn't gone out to her water or food bowl. She is always hungry for attention --sitting on my lap while I'm scanning the computer for the morning news is our routine and instead she's off by herself, sitting on top of a pile of warm clothes that I just took out of the dryer.

Maybe all of her allergies are food allergies. I'm very anxious to get this book.

I feel like a light bulb is finally going off. The connection with the food is making way too much sense.

Her regular diet consists of Iams mini chunks -- maybe that's contributing, too.

I had a stomach bug over the weekend and still am not up to par, so I have called in sick to my teaching job. I will be looking into this food allergy angle today while I'm home!


I can't thank you enough!!!!


:hug:

[nightbloomer]

15. Sidney

I have a schipperke, too - a 12 year old female, Anna.

If Sidney is still refusing water and food I would take her back to her regular vet pronto - if they get dehydrated, and they can very quickly, that causes major problems.

She may have an intestinal obstruction - a Q-tip may not show up on an x-ray.

I would be waiting at my vet's office when they opened. I have had to do that many times, myself.

Good luck and let us know what is going on.

[GenDem]

16. Hi, Nightbloomer.

She did take water about an hour ago. She is not eating her dog food, but she will take turkey breast.
Other observations -

- she did want to go out (about an hour ago), even though I put down paper for her. She was trying to poop and it didn't happen, she did pee. Maybe if there is an obstruction it is higher up. I saw the X-ray last night, and the two vets told us what they were looking for -- a bulge or a distention. They also felt her abdomen quite extensively.

-At the vets last night the Doctor did an internal exam and said no obstruction at least on the low end. When they did the blood draw, they started on her front paw, in her panicked state she pooped and peed on the table-- I felt that was a good sign. They couldn't get enough of a sample so they took her into another room and did the carotid artery.

- Just now she came in where I'm on the computer and was sitting under my feet. I lifted her up on my lap, and she is quivering. She then cried a little and jumped down. I wonder if the quivering means either pain or the fever. She's now under the love seat hiding.

I'm a wreck!!! I think I'm going to take your advice and call them, at the very least. I'm home sick today -- been fighting a stomach bug all weekend. I'm glad I'm here to keep an eye on her.

Welcome to DU :hi: and I thank you, from one Schipperke parent to another.

[nightbloomer]

17. Sidney

If she is straining to poop and nothing comes out that is a problem. And she is probably in pain, which is why she is quivering - Anna does that too.

Please get her back to the vet, things may be more apparent now.

I would call this an emergency if she were my dog. Not trying to scare you but best to err on the side of caution.

[InvisibleTouch]

18. More on natural and commercial diet...

...from my experience, for what it's worth:

Iams is by no means the worst commercial food out there - not the best, but not the worst, since most variants have a real whole meat as their first ingredient. Some don't, though, so read your labels. Almost every other dog food brand in the grocery store has "ground yellow corn" as its first ingredient (that is, there's more of this ingredient than anything else in the bag), and some kind of meat by-product down the list in third or fourth place. Even those brands that proclaim they're made with "real beef" or what-have-you, have the meat lower down in the ingredients list, and often in the form of "meal" or "by-product," which isn't the same as a whole meat source.

If you do feed kibble (and I do feed some, for convenience and while travelling, not to mention that most of my dogs are quite a bit bigger than yours and eat more!), go with a higher-quality brand. You'll have to seek out specialty pet shops to find it (Complete PetMart is the one in my area), and even they won't have all types. I tend to order online - I especially like Pet Food Direct, which has pretty much everything:

http://www.petfooddirect.com/store/default.asp?AffiliateCode=PF012803%2C+PF012803&mscssid=53FEE6JGMG6Q9LRGK71FU3CX6S605E4F

I personally like Organix, Wellness, and Paul Newman, and there are other good brands too. Always look at the ingredients list and pick something with a whole meat as the first ingredient. Careful of the ones with a 40+% protein content, though - that's too much, IMO, and can lead to kidney damage. That's really only for working sled dogs and such.

If you switch to a natural/premium brand, start with a small bag first to see what your dogs will like. Without all the artificial ingredients and flavoring agents, some dogs aren't so interested in the higher-quality foods at first. Kind-of like switching from Lucky Charms cereal to Raisin Bran!

If you switch partially or wholly to home-cooking, remember that any time you give raw meat, you have to supplement calcium. I use powdered eggshells (coffee grinder is perfect for this!) rather than bonemeal, to avoid the risk of mad cow disease. If you feed beef, buy slabs rather than ground beef and cut it up yourself; ground beef is made with meat removed from the skeleton by machine, which can include bits of spinal tissue (again, increased risk of mad cow). I tend to like to freeze meat and later thaw it before feeding, just to help kill any parasites that might be there, but I've never had a problem with this.

All grains and veggies need to be well-cooked to be easily digested. Individual dogs will react well to some grains and badly to others; one of mine, for instance, gets digestive upset from oatmeal, while another does just fine with it. Small pieces of fresh fruit (but no grapes!) and veggies are fine as treats; lots of dogs like a raw baby carrot, for instance, and mine love pieces of sweet potato, watermelon, etc.

Many raw diet advocates will tell you to feed bones, and I've talked to lots of people who haven't had any problems and swear by it. I'm wary of giving bones myself because I worry about chipped teeth, splinters, punctured intestines, etc. Knuckle bones rather than long bones are supposedly best, and I would personally stay away from poultry bones no matter what anyone says. You don't have to give bones as long as you have an alternate source of calcium (see above).

Hope that helps a bit. There will be lots more detail and specific recipes in your book when it arrives.


It does sound like there's an obstruction going on with Sidney, from the symptoms. It's good that she ate and drank a bit, but you still need to find out why she's in pain. This doesn't sound at all like an epileptic episode. Good luck to her, and keep us informed!

[Kali]

19. Dogs really aren't at risk for BSE

and you can have meat ground at most large stores.

Agree with you on bones - don't unless the dog is experienced and knows how to eat them. Egg shell is a fine sub.

[GenDem]

24. I really appreciate all of this info.

I copied and put it in a file.

Thanks, IT. You are a store house of info on dog nutrition!
:pals:

[ironflange]

20. Good luck to all of you

Mrs. Ironflange once had a Little Captain, so we have a real soft spot for them. Except for the yap yap yap yap yap yap yap yap yap yap yap yap yap yap yap yap part, but you can't blame them, that was the breed's job.

We had to hit the emergency vet a couple of weeks ago, and it didn't turn out so well, we lost our kitten. Congenital thing, turns out it would have bagged the poor thing sooner or later, and probably sooner.

[GenDem]

23. Yeah, they do a lot of yapping, don't they?

I would give anything to hear right this minute, but I just watched Sidney wag her little nub, and that was like a sight for soar eyes. I love the name they give the Schips, "Little Captain". We have a small boat -- Sidney apparently doesn't remember that she is suppose to be a sea dog -- because while on the boat she sits securely on my lap until we are back on dry land. Bear, our male, loves the water and is fearless.

So sorry about your kitty. :hug: I once had a three legged cat that died of heart failure when he was only 5 years old. They kept him going on prednisone for quite a while, but his heart just gave out one morning. We found him peacefully at the bottom of the stairs. Our vet said it was congenital heart disease.

[Critters2]

21. My first beagle used to have trance-like petit mal seizures

he never had a full grand mal, but would go into a trance, bump into things, and walk backwards--honest!
Strangest thing you ever saw. He was already on a good food, so it wasn't diet.
Phenobarbitol worked wonders, though, nearly ending the seizures altogether. He lived to 13, dying of an unrelated condition.

So, dogs with seizure disorders can live good lives.

I wish nothing but the best for your beautiful little dog!

[GenDem]

22. Sidney update

I just got off the phone with the vet. He wants me to call at 8 am tomorrow morning with an update, and if she hasn't gone to the bathroom they want to see her in the office again for an enema. He thinks that there is something up there that didn't show up on the X-ray, that may work it's way out naturally, or may not.

About 3 hours ago she went to her food bowl and ate a little and drank a good long drink. God, did that ever make me happy. She has had her second dose of antibiotic, and I actually think there has been a little improvement. She isn't as lethargic.

I informed the doctor that I was going to start making her food myself, and he thought that with all of her allergies that it was a great idea.

Just want to give a shout out to all of you that have given me so much good advice. I'm anxious to get the book and start Sidney, Bear, and Mother our cat on the road to a more holistic lifestyle.

:grouphug:

[Kajsa]

25. Oh, I wish her the best!

It's so scary for our animal buddies when they're sick.

And yes, we can't tell them why it's good to see the vet,
they're just terrified!

My kitties and I are sending good vibes and thoughts your way.

I hope they find out what's going on with her,soon.

:hug:

[Kali]

26. here is one of the basic dog recipes from the book

One on One

1 cup brown rice (2.5 cooked)

1 cup (1/2 lb) lean hamburger, or ground chicken, heart or turkey

1 cup cooked kidney beans (1/2 of 15 oz can)

1 TBS Healthy Powder*

1 TBS veg oil

1 TBS bonemeal (or 1,600 mg calcium or 1 scant tsp ground eggshell)

1 5,000IU vit A and D capsule (or part of a larger one)

1 400-800 IU vit E capsule

1 tsp soy sauce or dash of iodized salt (optional)

1 small clove garlic, crushed or minced (optional)

1 10-15 mg iron capsule (optional)

-------------------

Bring 2 cups of water to boil, add rice and simmer 35 to 45 minutes, mix in other ingredients and serve. Makes about 4.25 cups. Daily ration (in cups) toy - 1/3 to 1 2/3, small - 1 2/3 to 3 1/4, med - 3 1/4 to 4+, large - 4+ to 5 3/4, giant - 5 3/4 to 8 1/2+

*Healthy Powder

2 cups nutritional (torula) yeast
1 cup lecithin granules
1/4 cup kelp powder
1/4 cup bonemeal (or 9,000 mg calcium, or 5 teaspoons ground eggshell)
1,000 mgs vit c (grind up a regular vitamin or two)

[u4ic]

27. I wish Sidney the best

I can't offer any advice - not being a dog owner - but I can understand when a beloved companion isn't well. :pals: