I just spent nine hours getting Vista to work on my computer. Ask me nothing...

[Kutjara]

...because I'm going to bed.

Screw Microsoft. Assholes.

[VenusRising]

1. I'm so sorry it took you so long.

I hate installing things on computers. It never goes right for me.

Sleep well, and may you dream about something other than fighting your computer.

:hug:

[Kutjara]

2. Thanks Venus. That makes me feel better.

I suppose I have only myself to blame, installing it on a MacBook Pro and having to extract and install all the Windows XP drivers that were never designed to run on Vista, but still...

I think M$ are going to have a hell of a lot of problems because of the ludicrous "antipiracy" rigmarole and idiotic nannying Vista subjects the user to. Novices will just be confused and intimidated. Experts will be mightily pissed off.

[VenusRising]

3. My new laptop came with free Vista if I wanted it.

I'm barely confident in XP. There is no way I'm going to go for Vista until they have all the bugs worked out.

Don't blame yourself. It's all proprietorship bullshit by M$. Just give the nest M$ employee you see a good swift kick in the shin. It will make you feel better. :evilgrin:

[Kutjara]

4. That's a great idea! I've got a few friends who work...

...for the Evil Empire. I think I'll go over to their houses tomorrow and punch them.

I wouldn't worry about Vista too much. Once the thing is on your computer, it's pretty much exactly the same as XP (with a bit of new eyecandy that's supposed to fool the unwary into thinking it's something new). The fact that I was able to get XP drivers to work on it shows that Vista's just the same old thing, reheated. Christ only knows why it took them five years to launch it. People should start calling it Windows XP, Service Pack 3.

[Deja Q]

5. XP SP3 is due in 2008... Vista SP1 is due in mid-2007...

And given Vista lacks half the things that were originally hyped about, it seemed pointless for me to buy.

[Kutjara]

6. It's totally pointless to buy now.

There is literally nothing new in Vista except Bit Locker (an encryption system that looks like more trouble than it's worth), Media Center (which is included with my Ultimate version of Vista - can't see having much use for that), a few security enhancements and, of course, the new pretty colors.

It seems to boot a lot faster on my MacBook than XP did, and shuts down faster too, but is still slower than Mac OSX in both departments.

Oh, and it's got gadgets. You can have little things running along the right or left of the screen that tell you the weather, exchange rates, the time, and other vital information. Just don't call them "Widgets" or Apple will sue.

All in all, I'd rather have the nine hours back.

[trof]

12. Mine too. I doan wanna.

[Courtesy Flush]

21. All the bugs?

You're kidding yourself if you think that day will come. Name a previous version of Windows that got all the bugs out. I finally had to turn off the automatic updates, 'cause they were filling my hard drive with fixes, and no end in sight.

I use Linux now.

[VenusRising]

24. That just lets you know

just how quickly I'll be getting that Vista. :P

[Little Wing]

8. You're installing it on a MacBook Pro and blaming Microsoft?

That's possibly the best/dumbest computer thing I've heard in years

[Kutjara]

9. Why?

What difference does the brand of computer make? If I had problems installing Vista on a Dell, would that be Dell's fault? Particularly when the problems had nothing to do with the hardware and everything to do with stupid design decisions by M$.

Considering Intel Macs are capable of running Windows just like any other PC. The only trouble I was expecting was a bit of fiddling with drivers, since Apple haven't released Vista-specific ones yet, and extracting the XP ones from the Apple Bootcamp application in useable form is a a chore.

What I'm blaming Microsoft for is poor documentation, the fact that "upgrade" versions of Vista have to be installed on top of existing XP installations (in the past, you merely had to insert the old OS's disk to prove you owned it - making clean installations easier), and the vastly larger amount of disk space needed to run something that is basically an update to XP (it's about double the size).

My experience went thus:

(1) Delete existing XP installation/partition using Bootcamp.
(2) Create new (larger) FAT32 disk partition (I chose FAT32 because MacOS can read it, making file transfers between the two systems easier).
(3) Create driver disk to enable setup of Apple-specific hardware.
(4) Begin Vista installation.
(5) Stop Vista installation after Vista tells me that "upgrade" versions have to be installed on an existing XP installation.
(6) Reinstall XP.
(7) Begin Vista installation.
(8) Stop Vista installation after Vista tells me it can only install to an NTFS partition, not FAT32. Coulda told me that the first time.
(9) Delete existing XP installation/partition using Bootcamp.
(10) Create new NTFS disk partition.
(11) Begin Vista installation.
(12) Complete Vista installation.
(13) Attempt to "activate" Vista online. Fail.
(14) Call M$ to "activate" Vista. Spend 40 minutes on hold.
(15) Read 50 digit number from "manual activation" screen to M$ call center operator.
(16) Enter different 50 digit number received from operator into manual activation screen. Fail.
(17) RInse and repeat three times until number finally works.
(18) Hurrah! Now I have a barely functional system and can begin installing drivers.

The rest of the time was spend getting the drivers to work, which isn't M$'s fault, but 17 of the steps above certainly are. The biggest pain is M$'s new way of handling upgrades. If (and, knowing M$ products, that should be "when") I need to reinstall Vista in future, I'm going to have to install XP first, then install Vista on top of it, then delete the old XP files. This adds about an hour to the installation process and increases the potential for problems. All so Bill Gates can sleep a bit more comfortably in his bed, knowing that a few more "pirates" have been thwarted. Never mind that the real pirates have found ways around this "protection" months ago and the only people being thwarted are those stupid enough to pay for Vista.

[Little Wing]

10. You're installing through Apple's bootcamp proxy

In my books that absolves M$ of any fault.

[Kutjara]

11. Bootcamp isn't a proxy for anything.

It merely partitions disk space and creates a driver disk, nothing more. I could have used any other disk partition utility on the market instead of Bootcamp. The subsequent Vista installation was entirely standard. The problems I had (aside from driver incompatabilities) would have been exactly the same with any other PC on which I attempted a clean install.

So M$ are not absolved of anything. They've created a nightmare for their existing customers who buy upgrade versions of Vista by requiring them to have previous versions of Windows physically installed before the Vista installer will run. This makes it impossible to perform a clean install unless you buy the full priced version of Vista. Nowhere in the documentation that ships with Vista is this stated (although I did finally find it buried away in a Knowledge Base article, which most home users aren't likely to look for before buying the software). Upgade versions are supposed to have the same functionality as the stand alone product. The price difference is simply a "reward" for customer "loyalty." This time, however M$ have shipped a crippled product without letting anyone know. Some reward.

[Deja Q]

18. MacBook is just another Intel-based box.

Why give Apple bogus praise?

[jrandom421]

15. Talk about futility!

It came already installed on my new Falcon Northwest Mach V! Attempting an install on a MacBook Pro is just asking for trouble.

[Kutjara]

16. Actually, once you've been through it once and...

...seen all the pitfalls, it's doable in a much shorther time. The big problem is the way M$ handles upgrade versions of Vista. I can see them having to revise this policy quickly, because the support costs are going to be enormous.

[NMDemDist2]

7. i hate upgrades, esp from M$. i read somewher not to upgrade to Vista

just wait til your new computer comes loaded with it. made perfect sense to me :shrug:

sorry it took so long (but in my experience 9 hrs is about right) and hope it smooth sailing from here

[Kutjara]

17. That's good advice.

I'd certainly advise against buying the "upgrade" version of Vista.

Now that it's installed, it does seem to be more stable and quicker than XP. Bootup and shutdown times are a bit shorter and most other functions seem to be quicker. Vista does like lots of RAM, though, so I'm guessing part of the performance increase is because it's using the 2GB I've got in my MacBook more effectively than XP did.

I can see myself getting bored of the eyecandy pretty soon. After I'm done playing with it, I'll go back to MacOS and leave Vista for those few occasions when I have to use a M$ system.

[billyskank]

13. Eeeeeeeeew

Vista. :(

[Kutjara]

14. Yup.

After the agony of getting it working, I'm now poking around trying to find something that's different from XP. Five years in the making and all I can see that's different is the Aero eyecandy, the BitLocker encryption system and...um...er...oh yeah, the lack of support for FAT32 (so Macs and PCs can't share files easily any more).

[Kajsa]

19. I'm sorry you had so much trouble with Vista.

When you feel better, consider this;

SoCal DU Meetup in Long Beach this Saturday.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=141x26524

It sounds like a lot of fun.
I hope you can come.

[Kutjara]

22. I wish I could.

I'm going to be on the opposite coast this weekend, preparing for a customer presentation on Monday. What joy.

I'm definitely going to make the next one, though. It would be great to meet all the people I've been insulting for the past year. :)

[EnviroBat]

20. And another vote for Mac mini...

I've been debating for some time now, but no one I've talked to recently is recommending this Vista business...

[Kutjara]

23. Always go for Mac, unless...

...you play a lot of graphics-intensive computer games. Most of those are still PC-only. Fortunately, dual booting MacOS and Windows on my Mac allows me to indulge my gaming passion while remaining sane the rest of the time.

The Mac Mini is a sweet little machine and plenty fast for everyday applications. Get a nice big monitor and you'll be in computer heaven.