Am I The Only One Who Thinks NASA And Space In General Is A BIG

[DEM FAN]

WASTE OF MONEY. Think Of ALL The Things And Stuff You Could Do With
What They Spend On Space. I Just Have A BIG PROBLEM With All Of This.
:shrug:

[TXlib]

1. Yup. You're the only one.

[gator_in_Ontario]

2. waste of time....amen

[101 Proof]

3. Yes.

Space is probably one of the best things we spend our money on. I love finding out "what's out there."

If anything is a waste of money, it was the billions of dollars that was spent on Iraq. The money they use for NASA is only a micro-fraction of that.

[TXlib]

5. Yes, % of GDP spent on space exploration is small

tiny, in fact, when compared to the % of GDP spent on the Pentagon.

Not that military is unimportant; but there's an awful lot of fat and pork in the defense budget that could be cut. You could recoup NASA's budget several times over without hurting defense at all.

[i_am_not_john_galt]

12. especially when so much if Iraq

looks just like the surface of mars!

[POed_Ex_Repub]

4. Well... Manned flights are for the most point useless anymore

But I would submit there are three things still worth funding in the space program...

1) Looking for that big asteroid that may someday strike Earth. Not that we would be able to do anything about it. But heck, I wanna go out in style if it happens. ;-)

2) Continued search for intelligent life in space. (cause we sure as heck don't have any on earth)

3) Search for the eventual population of another planet by earthlings. (ie. Bush's long term EPA strategy)

But I'll also admit that seeing pictures of Mars (and getting soil samples) is kinda cool. The moon project on the other hand is just plain asinine. We've been there, done that.

[pmbryant]

6. Miniscule

The amount of money spent on the space program (even big budget items like the space station and the space shuttle, which, to be honest, I could do without) is miniscule compared to that being diverted to corporate cronies of the Bushies or dumped down the big Defense Department budgetary black hole.

--Peter

[mmm]

7. i like it

i don't think there should be anymore manned missions until
we have much faster ships. Unmanned is cheap and very cool.

[tridim]

8. As long as the R&D is shared, I'm all for it.

I do think the International Space Station was poorly conceived however.

[Baclava]

9. Sorry

One World Is Not Enough
The way our species breeds...we need all that space...
All Your Worlds Are Belong To US

[scottcsmith]

10. I agree

Come on, $800,000,000,000 for a couple of Mars probes? What about funding "No Child Left Behind" or using the money to make sure VA hospitals do not close? Or putting it back into Social Security? Frankly, what good does it do us to know if Mars sustained life millions of years ago? So what?

[pmbryant]

17. You're off by a few decimal points

Come on, $800,000,000,000 for a couple of Mars probes?

The Mars probes cost $800 Million dollars, as I recall, not $800 Billion dollars, as you state in your post.

As if the GOP, who controls the purse strings, would even choose to divert the money to No Child Left Behind or VA hospitals if given the option.

So this is a false choice.

The choice is between tax cuts for the super-rich (how many Trillions by now?!?) and funding worthwhile programs. You could build and launch, literally, tens of thousands of Mars probes for the cost of Bush's tax giveaways. And that isn't even mentioning all the hundreds of billions spent every year on our grotesque, unauditable Defense budget.

--Peter

EDIT: Got rid of some capitalizations that were distracting

[never cry wolf]

25. I think you have that number mistaken, an extra three 000's...

I searched all over the web, NASA's yearly TOTAL budget for 2004 is 15,700,000,000, less than 2% of what you claim the probes are and FINALLY, I found out the probes cost a total of $800,000,000, or >1/2 of 1% of what this frikkin war has cost us.

Oh, the only place I found the rovers' cost was faux news, sorry to say.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,89041,00.html

[jpgray]

11. Yes--there is very important research that needs a zero-g environment

For example, the Columbia was studying granular mechanics before it went down--understanding the physics here would help to prevent natural disasters and save many lives.

[uberotto]

13. Instead of giving all of that money to NASA...

We should do away with NASA and we could maybe give all that money to people who are out of work and like, need government assistance.

Maybe people who have like, degrees in Math, Physics, Astronomy, Geology, Biology and Engineering and don't have jobs.

Maybe instead of just giving them the money like it's just some free hand out, we could set up some sort of government program or something that uses the money to create jobs for all of these people.

Maybe we could create some government program that like does research and stuff, and these out of work people could get jobs there. You know, sort of like NASA...


Now if you really want to talk about a waste of money, how about the fact the U.S. builds $250,000 missiles and uses them to blow up $1,000 mud huts. And what does it do after it uses that $250,000 missile, it goes and buys another one. In other words, the U.S. spends $500,000 to knock down $1,000 building.

So, where would you prefer your tax dollars spent, Research or demolition.

[never cry wolf]

14. Not the only one

Others share that misguided outlook as well.

http://www.thespaceplace.com/nasa/spinoffs.html

Some of the most frequently asked questions about the U.S. space program are "Why go into space when we have so many problems here on Earth?" and "What does the space program do for me?" These are legitimate questions and unfortunately not enough people have been made aware of the vast benefits the space program provides that increase the quality of our daily lives. Applications on Earth of technology needed for space flight have produced thousands of "spinoffs" that contribute to improving the national economy, productivity and lifestyle. It is almost impossible to find an area of everyday life that has not been improved by these spinoffs. Collectively, these secondary applications represent a substantial return on the national investment in aerospace research. We should be spending more.

Out of a $1.5 trillion budget, less than 1% is spent on the entire space program! It has been conservatively estimated by U.S. space experts that for every dollar the U.S. spends on the space program, it receives $7 back in the form of corporate and personal income taxes from increased jobs and economic growth. Besides the obvious jobs created in the aerospace industry, thousands more are created by many other companies applying NASA technology in nonspace related areas that affect us daily. One cannot even begin to place a dollar value on the lives saved and improved lifestyles of the less fortunate. Space technology benefits everyone and a rising technological tide does raise all boats.

more...

[Ellen Forradalom]

55. Yep, like those Tempur-Pedic mattresses

"TEMPUR® pressure-relieving materia is a breakthrough in sleep technology that will forever change the way you sleep. The original formula was developed in the early 1970's at NASA's Ames Research Center in an effort to relieve astronauts of the incredible g-forces experienced during lift-off. "

http://www.tempurpedic.com/material.asp

[hlthe2b]

15. I suspect a lot of younger DUers might feel this way, but many of us

remember the incredible burst of technology that came as a direct result of spaceflight r&d. It was really phenomenal, leading up to the first moon landing. I strongly suspect it continues to be so, even though I haven't kept up with the technology transfer issues recently. I do know that DOD has benefited from some of the research, hopefully in a manner valuable to protecting our men and women at risk.

Yup, space program is invaluable. We waste plenty of money, but I don't believe this is necessarily the one to go after.

[MusicTVstar]

31. you should be happy to know...

that atleast one young duer doesn't feel that way.

i'm behind the space program 100%

[youngred]

43. Not at all

many of the younger DUers may not have seen the glory days of the space program, but many of us still appreciate the wonderful things that it has brought us and the importance of it.

[Uzybone]

16. No your not

$860 million to see some pictures of sand and rocks. I dunno...seems to me that we could have spent that money in more meaningful ways.

[tridim]

21. "$860 million to see some pictures of sand and rocks"

If we find life on Mars will you change your mind? Finding life on two planets in a single solar system would be the biggest scientific discovery in human history. I'm sure some fundies will disagree, but what it will tell us is that the universe is jam packed with life sustaining solar systems. The Drake equation will have to be completely rewritten.

I think (well, hope) we'll get a major surprise in a few weeks.

[Uzybone]

23. I hope so as well

but alas, we know we aint gonna find nothing on Mars. But I hope Im wrong.

[pmbryant]

27. We know that?

How do we know that?

There is a lot more to these space probes than just some pictures. I encourage you to read more about it here: http://marsrovers.nasa.gov/home/

After all, it is our money paying for this thing. You might as well know what you're getting for it.

Here are some excerpts:

The Mars Exploration Rover mission is part of NASA's Mars Exploration Program, a long-term effort of robotic exploration of the red planet.

Primary among the mission's scientific goals is to search for and characterize a wide range of rocks and soils that hold clues to past water activity on Mars. The spacecraft are targeted to sites on opposite sides of Mars that appear to have been affected by liquid water in the past. The landing sites are at Gusev Crater, a possible former lake in a giant impact crater, and Meridiani Planum, where mineral deposits (hematite) suggest Mars had a wet past.

(snip)

These are the primary science instruments to be carried by the rovers:

Panoramic Camera (Pancam): for determining the mineralogy, texture, and structure of the local terrain.


Miniature Thermal Emission Spectrometer (Mini-TES): for identifying promising rocks and soils for closer examination and for determining the processes that formed Martian rocks. The instrument will also look skyward to provide temperature profiles of the Martian atmosphere.


Mössbauer Spectrometer (MB): for close-up investigations of the mineralogy of iron-bearing rocks and soils.


Alpha Particle X-Ray Spectrometer (APXS): for close-up analysis of the abundances of elements that make up rocks and soils.


Magnets: for collecting magnetic dust particles. The Mössbauer Spectrometer and the Alpha Particle X-ray Spectrometer will analyze the particles collected and help determine the ratio of magnetic particles to non-magnetic particles. They will also analyze the composition of magnetic minerals in airborne dust and rocks that have been ground by the Rock Abrasion Tool.


Microscopic Imager (MI): for obtaining close-up, high-resolution images of rocks and soils.


Rock Abrasion Tool (RAT): for removing dusty and weathered rock surfaces and exposing fresh material for examination by instruments onboard.

A goal for the rover is to drive up to 40 meters (about 44 yards) in a single day, for a total of up to one 1 kilometer (about three-quarters of a mile).

Moving from place to place, the rovers will perform on-site geological investigations. Each rover is sort of the mechanical equivalent of a geologist walking the surface of Mars. The mast-mounted cameras are mounted 1.5 meters(5 feet) high and will provide 360-degree, stereoscopic, humanlike views of the terrain. The robotic arm will be capable of movement in much the same way as a human arm with an elbow and wrist, and will place instruments directly up against rock and soil targets of interest. In the mechanical "fist" of the arm is a microscopic camera that will serve the same purpose as a geologist's handheld magnifying lens. The Rock Abrasion Tool serves the purpose of a geologist's rock hammer to expose the insides of rocks.

--Peter

[BigBigBear]

18. I think it's good

for science, technology and the overall character of a nation.

$800 million isn't much, < 1% of Bush's FIRST request for Iraq money.

[donco6]

19. No, but I like the space program.

I believe scientific investigation is an excellent use of money.

[trof]

20. Yeah, well...if it wasn't for NASA

we wouldn't have



Energy 366.000 kcal
Protein 0.000 g
Total lipid (fat) 0.000 g
Carbohydrate, by difference 98.400 g
Fiber, total dietary 0.300 g
Calories from Carbohydrates* 105 %
Calories from Protein* 0 %
Calories from Fat* 0 %

So there!

[MGKrebs]

22. The thing is, with NASA, as with all science,

you don't know what you are going to find out. If you did, we wouldn't need to do it. That is exactly the point. We won't know what we can learn (or whether it will be useful) until we do it.

[Cannikin]

24. What have they done for us lately????

http://www.nasa.gov/vision/earth/technologies/spinoffs.html

Let them tell you!


I think its sad that so many people feel that the probe is just a camera. Some of the other functions dont come on line just yet. The camera was immediately usable, therefore they sent back some photos of their (as opposed to Europe's) probe's succesful landing. There are lots of photos of the surface from earlier probes.

[pmbryant]

30. Spinoffs

Personally, I don't like using 'spinoffs' to justify the space program. If the space program can't be justified using its real goals, which, in my view, are to explore the local universe and to further the knowledge of all humankind, than it is simply not justifiable.

Of course, I find the latter to be plenty justification, at least for unmanned scientific probes. :-)

Spinoffs are a bonus. But if all we wanted was the spinoffs, I have little doubt they could be developed a lot cheaper on their own than via a space program.

--Peter

EDIT: grammar correction

[brainshrub]

26. Yes you are.

The only time I allow myself to be a jingoistic American is when I think of NASA.

Case is point: Europes probe failed to reach Mars. USA USA USA!!!

[DrWeird]

28. NASA-no

It's clearly an enormous boondoggle that needs to be scraped and rebuilt from the bottom up.

[Cannikin]

32. I'd say that goes for the entire government!

[Dees]

29. I am more concerned about the problems with our environment

on earth vs. what may or may not have been on Mars millions of years ago. Although I must admit that drilling a few rocks on Mars beats drilling through bedrock in Alaska.

[Mikimouse]

33. I vote to keep NASA as it is...

in terms of funding.I am profoundly curious about what might be 'out there'. The major problem I see in NASA is the fact that the agency has lost its once fabled curiosity, and perhaps some of its imagination as well. I am old enough to remember that earliest days of the space program, and the fact that the scientists involved managed to do what they did without the aid of the types of computers we are writing these notes on; rather, they did everything with slide rules and imagination. When the most important missions can be negatively affected by a inappropriate English/Metric conversion (Mars lander, 1995?, sorry, I remember the incident, but not very well), it demonstrates the complaceny that appears to have become the norm. NASA needs to get rid of the administrative constraints and return to an agency run by scientists.

[supernova]

34. Then you have a big problem with our modern world

Some of the gifts of NASA you are thumbing your nose at:

- The CAT and MRI scan. The same technology that allows NASA Engineers to improve picture quality is now regularly used by MDs to look inside your body without invasive surgery. Unless you enjoy the pain of unecessary surgery.

- Like getting weather reports days in advance? How bout Satellite TV? Or your cell phone? None of these would be possible without Satellites that are circling the globe in geosynchronous orbit.
None of which would be there w/o jet propulsion.

- Like using your computer mouse? A proto-type of it is a product of the Engineers of NASA.

- Lifeshears, used to tear away debris to rescue accident victims.


I just can't believe you don't know that much about the space program DEM FAN. *Nearly Fainting with Disblief*

NASA is one thing we definitely get right. And we'd better keep up with it. There's so much more that I have forgotten. I would dearly love to spend more money on the space program than on the DoD.

http://www.nasa.gov/vision/earth/technologies/spinoffs.html

[THUNDER HANDS]

35. I agree with you

Especially since all those NASA photos are retouched by the NASA graphics department to make them look as spectacular as they do.

I posted something similar to this yesterday.

Explore the depths of the ocean before you explore the sky. There's more to learn about life under there than there is in the heavens.

[bowens43]

36. Yes, you are the only one.

[Runesong]

37. We have squandered our greatness.

We put have men on the moon, launched communication satellites that revolutionized communications. I remember the set of encyclopedias I had when I was a kid. Under "space" was 6 pages promising colonies in orbit and on the moon by the year 2000.

It is now 2004, and I am 35 years old. Where the f*ck are the rocket-cars? Sustainable energy? Jobs on offworld colonies?

As far as I can see, the only progress we have made in the past 30 years, is that we have become the bully of the world, we have lights in our sneakers and lightning-fast access to Britany Spears camel-toe pics.

As a child of the 70's and 80's, whose father was an engineer involved with the Apollo program, I look around at the world and our nation, and wonder "What the hell happened?" Our nation has accomplished great things. Now we are a bunch of selfish, apathetic zombies.

What do my kids have to look forward to, besides declining wages, a deteriorating environment, astronomical rents and real-estate prices that they cannot afford with a mere 5-digit salary?

China has been persueing a very agressive space program, and will be our technilogical superiors (and probably superiors in every other way) in the very near future. Chinese is a very difficult language for westerners to learn. I suggest you get started now.

[NoPasaran]

38. You too can be a big hero

If you learn to count backwards to zero
"In English or German
I know how to count down
Und I'm learning Chinese
Says Wernher von Braun"

-Tom Lehrer

[Mikimouse]

54. Vonce the rockets are up, who cares where ze come down...

That's NOT my department, says Werner Von Braun. God help me, tere's another Lehrer fan on this board. I thought we were all extinct! How about we go and poison some pigeons in the Park?

[Ellen Forradalom]

56. I agree

Well-put. I've also noticed the huge technological strides that China has made in recent decades. They are poised to make this the 'Chinese century,' (or should I say, another Chinese century), whatever PNAC might be dreaming.

[Andyjunction]

39. We should have hotels on the moon by now.

We're way behind where we should be. And where the hell is my flying car god dammit!?!

[Heyo]

41. If I was President...

I would put alot more into the space program....

I think it is our destiny as human being to explore far off places...

If I was elected president, I would put alot of heart and as much money as is reasonable to explore space, including putting a man on Mars and lots of probes other places......as well as developing the moon so that regular ordinary people.. not just the government's chosen.. can go there.

In my humble opinion, the poster who spoke of just a bunch of "sand and rocks" is really missing the point. (no disrespect intended)

Heyo

[Baclava]

50. Sand & rocks....???

I never understand how someone who is using a COMPUTER can be against science........that just blows me away.......

50 years ago some folks in this country were considered lucky if they didn't have to shit in a pot out in the yard....

[Dees]

45. I want to make double damn sure there are plenty of Golden

Arches in space before I take my first ride and there damn well should be a Wal-Mart in every crater.

[youngred]

40. I think you're the only one yeah

There is an immeasurable amount to be learned from space and space exploration.

I have a bigger problem with the money spent on the military budget which is far far far far far larger and does absolutely NOTHING good for the US (ok some of it is necessary but hardly the amount spent) and in fact causes us a lot of damage.

That's your beef, but I have to disagree

[Susang]

42. I thought for sure XNASA would have shown up by now

I wonder where he is..... :shrug:

[Ellen Forradalom]

53. I think he's qualified to comment

Awaiting his input.

[lazarus]

44. Yeah

Who needs dialysis machines, anyway? Or satellite technology?

Imagine, with 800 million dollars the government could do something constructive, like bomb Iraq for a week.

[Cannikin]

46. To boldly go where no..one has gone before!

I couldnt resist.:puffpiece:

[tinrobot]

47. Let's run some numbers here...

Iraq war - $200 billion plus countless lives.

Mars Mission - $850 million, and we may discover life... or something else that might benefit mankind.

I think the bigger waste of money is obvious...

[curse10]

48. Well, my brother would be out of a job

and it might squash the dreams of thousands of children who want to be astronauts. Those same kids who end up getting engineering degrees or physics degrees because of this dream.

The government should fund science. I want to know about the universe. I want to see what's on mars. But that's just me

[Rowdyboy]

49. You're not the only one

but I hope you remain in the minority on this one. Sorry, but I think the space program has been among our better investments of the last half-century.

[forgethell]

51. Yup, you are the only one.

Technology & science and space exploration is the ONLY way we can maintain population growth without using up all our resources. Or we could go to war. But tell me, has population growth, despite all the efforts of the Greens, despite birth control and choice, ceased? I don't think so.

So-- to the stars!!

[DS1]

52. Yep, you're just unfortunately unaware of the benefits

.

[Venomous_Rhetoric]

58. another opinion

he's another opinion

Message from Allah

"Allah likes what he sees here, kufr. He likes it a lot. Windy, sandy, dry, and so hot you might burst into flames: It is like the Kingdom, only red. In fact, suddenly Allah is thinking that there is something a little bit sacred about that Martian soil. Perhaps you can do him a big favor, then, and fly your little occupation-bot or whatever on out of there. Allah promises you, you are not going to find any oil, okay? "

[RebelOne]

57. Yes, you are as far as I'm concerned.

I'm 100% for space exploration.