i've finally figured out why the metric system never caught on in the u.s.-

[dysfunctional press]

and probably never will-

too many syllables.

all of our good ol' english American measurement terms are one syllable affairs: inch, foot, yard, mile, pound...

whereas the metric system measurements have more like 4 syllables, maybe more, a lot of them with those aggressive "k" sounds...

we just don't have time in this country for all those extra syllables- too many to learn, remember, decipher, or say.

or it could just be that we're too lazy for all those extra syllables, too.

[Spider Jerusalem]

1. "Because it's French" seems like a simpler explanation.

It hasn't really caught on in the UK, either; some things are metric, but distances are in miles, beer is sold in pints, and people think of their height in feet and inches and their weight in stone.

[billyskank]

2. That's right

we have a brain dead mix of the two. Food is generally sold in kilos, and petrol is sold by the litre, but pretty much everything else is in imperial units.

We have to have two sets of scales on our speedometers, the main one in mph for us, and a secondary scale in kmh should we ever drive in Europe. I noticed in Canada that they have the same thing, except the other way round.

[Spider Jerusalem]

6. We have dual measures on our speedometers in the States, too...

for driving in Canada and Mexico.

Wasn't metrication mandated something like 40 years ago? Considering how efficient the changeover's been it's a wonder the switch to decimal currency was so easily accomplished; if it had gone like the switch to metric half the shops would still be pricing things in shillings and guineas.

[fizzgig]

9. well, now i feel stupid

i never gave a second thought to the km/h on my speedometer. i honestly thought it was because my car was made in sweden. :dunce:

i have never, ever thought about driving my car out of the states.

i'm gonna go sit in a corner now

[qnr]

31. For info, even my 50cc scooter has a dual scale. n/t

[billyskank]

33. Not metrication: decimalisation

and that referred to our currency, rather than weights and measures. Prior to decimalisation there were 240 pence in a pound, which was subdivided up into 20 shillings of 12d each. Hence, LSD (pounds l, shillings s, pence d). After decimalisation there were 100 pence (now designated by p) in a pound and the term 'shilling' fell into disuse. We never fully metricated our weights and measures.

[Spider Jerusalem]

35. Yes, I know...

(dry humour doesn't really convey well in a text-only medium...)

[Jimbo S]

26. That's what my co-worker says

"The French invented the metric system, and I don't like the French."

And being 60, he says he's gotten by just fine with the English system.

[neweurope]

3. Well, you wouldn't have to call it Kilometers or Milliliters.

You could call it everything you wanted as long as you only used the system.
How you ever had engineering on a scale smaller than an inch with this "system" of yours is really beyond me *g*

---------------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[MonkeyFunk]

5. well

we DO understand fractions.

[neweurope]

7. I'm sure you do, but it all sounds so complicated.

But I'm no missionary - as long as I don't have to learn your system it's ok with me:)

-----------------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[MonkeyFunk]

8. heheh

when I was a kid we were told the Metric system was coming, and we learned it. But nobody in the US wants it, outside of the sciences.

Some things are just so internalized, they'll never change.

Plus, Fahrenheit is a much more precise system, and makes intuitive sense - 0 is very cold, 100 is very hot, for almost all the practical purposes people need.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

16. At 0, water freezes. At 100, water boils.

40 is very hot.

I like it better this way.

[dysfunctional press]

19. celcius doesn't have enough degrees for us americans.

we like precision in our temperature.

[Hav]

23. .

Decimals?
Just because there might be a difference when it comes to steps from one number to the next, it doesn't mean that one system is less precise. If this were the case, that system wouldn't really be of any use for scientists, would it?

[MonkeyFunk]

58. but day to day

we don't care at what temp water boils. We just wanna know if we need to wear a sweater.

[GirlinContempt]

29. Celsius makes way way way more sense

[dysfunctional press]

52. except to/for people who learned and grew up with fahrenheit.

nt

[GirlinContempt]

70. I dunno

My parents grew up using F and they converted just fine *shrug*

[krispos42]

11. We learned from our socket wrenchs

"Hand me a 3/16ths."

"Damn, it's a hair too small. Hand me, um... 4/16ths. No, I mean 1/4!"

Actually for all of our precision work that is still done in English units we just use thousanths of an inch. I have a set of calipers that uses such a system.

For carpentry and other tape measure work, we usually go to the 1/16th of an inch for accuracy, or about 0.063 inches, but many tape measures are accurate to 1/32nd of an inch, or .031 inches.

If you really need something done with precision, you use ¹/_10,000 of an inch, commonly called a 'tenth'.

[neweurope]

60. 1/16th of an inch, 1/32nd .... *shudders*

I know you don't understand, but I feel sorry for you :evilgrin:

----------------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[krispos42]

63. Don't be

I went to engineering school. I can carry on a conversation in metric as easily as in English! :-) Even better, I can convert between the two in my head pretty easily!

[neweurope]

65. Great! I can convert only miles and inches easily,

everything else is an effort. And Fahrenheit I'll never understand, I fear. Well, I don't want to, either :)

------------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[leeroysphitz]

73. 1/10,000 is not a "tenth" of an inch.

:evilgrin:

[Art_from_Ark]

4. The reason why it hasn't caught on is that there is no compelling

reason for it to catch on.

Let's face it-- Americans are comfortable with feet and inches, pounds and ounces, miles per gallon and degrees in Fahrenheit. In most instances, there is no compelling reason to switch for the average American. On top of that, think of all the money it would take just to get everything converted (and really, do you want to spend all the time and money to convert, for example, all the millions of land deeds from feet and acres to meters and hectares, for no obvious benefit?).

Plus, during the conversion phase, retailers would likely take advantage of the confusion. I saw this up close and personal in Canada before and after the switch. Deli items that may have been, say, $1.29 a pound before the switch were repriced to, for example, 40 cents per 100 grams after the switch. But the 40 cents per 100 gram price, while seemingly cheaper, was actually the equivalent of $1.80 per pound in the old system.

Screw that.

[Jimbo S]

27. Read in a trade magazine

The drive to switch to SI will come from the business sector, when the time comes using SI will bring in more money.

[taterguy]

10. Because the length of football fields would change

And no one is going to screw with the greatest game ever, in addition to the impact that would have on sacred sports records

[AllegroRondo]

13. Are Canadian football fields in meters?

I always wondered that.

[PVnRT]

14. No, yards

n/t

[Connonym]

18. I think you're on to something there!

I'm in favor of conversion to metric. It would take a little effort to switch over but it's so much more logical in the long run. So how hard is it for everyone to buy a calculator at the Everything's a Dollar store while we're learning?

[Jimbo S]

30. but, but...people would have to think!

That is sooo much work. And we live in such a math-phobia society.

[PVnRT]

12. Oh, yes, I'm sure that's it

:eyes:

I'm convinced that most people want to switch to metric simply because they hate the idea of having to do math.

[Courtesy Flush]

15. Just saying "syllable" wears me out!

[dysfunctional press]

37. now YOU understand what i'm talking about...

unlike a lot of those other syllable-loving lunkheads.

[underpants]

17. Drugs have taught an entire generation of Americans the metric system.

-P.J. O'Rourke

[Cobalt-60]

46. Indeed

the gram to ounce conversion is particularly well known.

[hedgehog]

20. It's my belief that the English system was developed by generations

of engineers and techs to suit physical reality. That's why you have a lot of variation in small sizes of socket wrenches (1/16, 1/8, 3/16, 1/4 these sizes vary by 0.0625 in) and not so much in the larger sizes (2", 2 1/2", 3"..). The smaller the size, the more precision. You also have different units depending on what you're measuring - miles, feet, inches. Metric was developed by a bunch of liberal arts majors sitting around a table trying to reduce the world to simplicity.

[TheBaldyMan]

22. the Imperial system for length was based on the human body

a yard was one pace or an arms length, double this was a fathom, the length of rope that you could hold between your outstretched arms. Sub-divisions were made for ease of calculation, using factors of two and three.

Other measures were similarly made for other everyday uses. Hands are still used for horses' height.

Weights were originally devised mainly for money metals, a pound was originally a pound of silver, in nordic countries this pound of silver was called a marrka. Most of the pre-metric weights and measures in Europe took these forms.

I think liquid measures were based on the barrel, successive doubling led youeventually to the tun. Halving the barrel repeatedly got you down to the gallon and eventually the pint.

[dysfunctional press]

39. pint and quart- two more mono-syllabic measurements...

it's the imperial american way weigh!

[krispos42]

45. A pint was a pound of milk

And people used dozens because there were more factors in 12 than 10. You could divide up a dozen by 2,3,4, or 6. Very useful.

[pokerfan]

48. Precisely

the reason we have 12 hours in a day -- 24 in a complete day but originally sundials divided the day into twelve intervals for that very reason. You can split the day into halves, quarters or thrids, etc. However, sixty has even more factors: 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 10, 12, 15, 20 and 30.

The problem isn't the metric system. The problem is basing a number system on such an arbitrary evolutionary accident as the number of fingers we happen to possess.

Therefore, we need to change the basis of our number system. Base 12 would probably be the easier transition, but base 60 would be the best.

Much more useful than teaching kids Roman numerals.

[krispos42]

50. Ever read "The Cross-Time Engineer"?

by Leo Frankowski?

[pokerfan]

55. No, I haven't

But I seem to remember Heinlein positing the use of base-60 systems as the Babylonians used.

[krispos42]

59. In the series

mid-1980's engineer accidental sent back to 1231AD, he decides to shift the country (Poland) to a 12-digit numbering system by adding two Greek letters for '10' and '11'. Things in multiples of 12 were prefixed with "doz", as in "dozyard" and "dozminute", and things divided by 12 were prefixed by "twelv", as in "twelvyard".

Or maybe I have 'doz' and 'twelv' prefixed backwards, but you get the idea. He made up an entire numbering system with English and metric conversions.

[neweurope]

61. There was a time in Europe when everybody had the

most funny systems, like you described, yards, miles and so on. (Not only) In Germany which at that time consisted of numerous independent dukedoms all those measurements were different; if you were a trader you had to know that in A. a yard was so long and in B. so short, while in C. it was absolutely ridiculously small...

The metric system changed all that. And while it is a little difficult to change a system of course our European countries did change, and we survived it. Ireland is just showing how easy it really is :)

------------------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[GirlinContempt]

34. Damn those 18th century french liberal arts majors! DAMN THEM

DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMN THEMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM for being so precise and making my life easier!

[Javaman]

21. Naaa, I think it's more to do with the fact that most people

can't count to ten.

[riverdeep]

24. Power

In a pure marketplace of ideas, the metric system would have won out. But because the people propagating the more illogical system have stunning economic power, this brutally more ponderous system still lives on. Do you think if Kazekstan used this system it could hoist it over the rest of the world?

Being involved in science I use the metric system a lot. It doesn't take
very long to become intuitive with-maybe a month for the average person if they use it everyday (3 or 4 months for Fox news viewers). Measuring height say as 165cm seems overwhelming at first, but it catches on.

[PVnRT]

25. Please explain how it's "illogical"

n/t

[riverdeep]

28. Simply that it's easier to use

Since it's based on 10's, you don't have to remember how many feet are in a yard, or teaspoons in a tablespoon (both three in this case), or quarts in a gallon, etc. It's always the same number. Also, many of the key numbers are based on natural processes instead of something arbitrary- the celcius 0 degrees is when water freezes, 100 if when it boils, although yeah, the meter is pretty much arbitrary. I think there's a reason science adapted it instead of the English system. But it's not like the English system won't get the job done-it will.

[Swede]

41. The meter was defined as one ten-millionth of the distance from either pole to the equator.

nt

[riverdeep]

56. hey

Thanks for the info, I looked it up, and you're right. Although, in 1983 they arrived at a new way of defining it:

"The meter is the length of the path travelled by light in vacuum during a time interval of 1/299 792 458 of a second."

-from a physics site.

[achtung_circus]

62. Specifically

along the line of longitude that passes through Paris. Undoubtedly a particular point in Paris, but I'm too lazy to go looking anywhere except in my memory.

[dysfunctional press]

36. syllables don't seem to bother you in the least...

"...But because the people propagating the more illogical system have stunning economic power, this brutally more ponderous system still lives on..."

so the point is probably lost on you.

[riverdeep]

57. yep

-better?

[Crazy Dave]

32. I don't want to buy new tools

:crazy:

[dysfunctional press]

38. when i was in college, a friend had to get some tools for a stagecraft class...

in exchange for helping her shop for her list, i got her all freaked-out by asking her if she needed either a standard or a metric adjustable crescent wrench....:rofl:

[krispos42]

64. You're evil!

lmao

[LostInAnomie]

40. Nope, it's because of the Stone Cutters.

Simpson's fans will get that one.

[SmileyBoy]

42. They robbed kingfish of their sight and made Steve Guttenberg a star.

:D

[deepthought42]

79. Who keeps the metric system down?

We do! We do!

Is it sad that The Simpsons is the first thing I thought of when I saw this thread?

[greendog]

43. No, the metric system hasn't replaced the American system because...

...the capitalists prefer that we have TWO systems. Wouldn't it be great to get by with just one set of tools?

Can't do it 'cause the bastards wouldn't be able to sell as many tools. Matter of fact, it wouldn't surprise me if they came up with a couple of NEW systems so they could sell EVEN MORE tools!

[dysfunctional press]

44. but...but...but...

a lot of capitalists also OWN businesses that use tools, meaning that they also have to buy the double sets of everything.

it's the syllable thing. trust me on this.

[greendog]

49. And who pays for their tools?

You and me the consumer when we buy the products and services that require those tools. And you and me the taxpayer when they "write off" the purchase of those tools thereby pushing more of the tax load onto "our" shoulders.

[dysfunctional press]

53. if it's such a money-maker for the dreaded & evil capitalists-

then why doesn't every country and/or company use their own system of measurement, requiring we the people to buy dozens of sets of tools for all of those companies to use on each other's products...?

only TWO systems...?

and they call themselves capitalists...?

[pokerfan]

54. How much did the loss of the Mars Climate Orbiter cost?

http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/launches/orbiter_errorupd_093099.htm

Oh yeah, $125M. For confusing Netwons and pounds.

The problem is due more to being forced to work within both systems than either one's inherent advantages.


Countries still using Imeprial units:



I can only surmise that we do a shitload of trade with Liberia and Myanmar.

[Cobalt-60]

47. MKS- Meters Kilograms seconds- is much, much better for engineering

I do all my calculations in then metric system and convert for presentation to others if they don't saavy MKS.
Indeed those curmudgeons over at Torchwood won't accept metric results.

[dysfunctional press]

51. MAE- Most of us Aren't Engineers...

we just know what we learned, what we know and are comfortable with and what has always worked just fine for us, and if people want to change it after we're dead, that's fine with us...but until then- we won't be converting.

just too many damn syllables for anyone's good.

[eppur_se_muova]

66. If it's too many syllables, just drop some. km = kilometer, pronounce it 'kim'.

Lab workers commonly say 'mils' for milliliters (ml), 'migs' for milligrams (mg). No reason you can't extend this to kigs, kims, etc. One possible complication: micro could be confused with milli, suggest 'mu' for micro, since greek letter mu is often used for this (micron is the same as micrometer, BTW). So for mass: kigs, gs, migs, mugs. For volume, kils, ls, mils, muls. For length, kims, ms, mims, mums. Would work just fine with Newtons, Pascals, Joules, etc. (Watts might pose a wee problem.) Surprised I've never seen an SF book where people do this, since it's common practice in labs.

Yes, I've deliberately swept the deci/deka thing under the rug. But who uses those? If we have to keep them, just use decils/dekals, etc.

Bonus points to the first person to find an obscene metric unit using this scheme.

:evilgrin:

[dysfunctional press]

67. well that's just silly...

not only would we have to learn new measurements- but we also have to learn a whole new set of abbreviations- and then expend the mental energy to decipher the abbreviation back to the correct & cumbersome multi-syllabic proper unit name...you may only be saying "kims"??(i won't even address the lack of quality in that abbreviation) but the underlying mental processes going on are just too much to make switching over worthwhile. plus there's all that time that would be wasted trying to explain to people what a kim is to begin with.
once all of us baby-boomers and generation jonesers are dead and six FEET under, feel free to make all the changes you want...we're sticking with that which has served us so well throughout our lifetimes.

[eppur_se_muova]

68. If you can read the abbreviation km, there's NOTHING new to learn.

Just try pronouncing "km". Standard abbreviations are mg, kg, etc. Just read them as words. And don't bother with the unabbreviated form at all, if you don't want to. If you know what the symbol "km" means, why call it a kilometer? Just say "km", or "kim".

"All that time explaining" ... here's a m (meter stick). One thousand m is a km. End of explanation.

[dysfunctional press]

78. no...there's really NOTHING new to learn as long as we stick with imperial units.

nt.

[GirlinContempt]

71. Most I know say click for kilometer

kilo for kilogram

[eppur_se_muova]

74. Yeah, I've never figured out where "click" came from. nt

[GirlinContempt]

75. Yeah I have no clue

But it works, and helps differentiate from kilo(gram)

[dysfunctional press]

77. it's from the sound that a mechanical odometer would make.

as it turned over at a mile, it would click as the number went into place.

[pokerfan]

76. Another problem with being forced to use both systems...

Lab workers commonly say 'mils' for milliliters (ml)

If you say "mil" to a machinist, he is likely to interpret it as meaning 1/1000 of an inch.

[The Straight Story]

69. Would my penis size sound larger or smaller in Metric? (nt)

[GirlinContempt]

72. Larger

6 in = 15.2 cm