Double standards-life in a small town.

[youthere]

I live in a little town in rural Iowa. When I say little, I mean it. We're talking less than 500 people here. most of the people here are related to each other (I hesitate to use the word "inbred" but...) and most of the residents have lived here their whole lives. Everyone knows everyone. Everyone knows everyone's business. It's a small, SMALL town.
NOW:
The husband of the local small business owner (I’ll call him Tim) and the wife of the elementary school teacher (lets call her Sue) had an affair. They were caught in the act in the back of an ambulance at the fire station by the fire chief. (Sue was a volunteer EMT and had access to the building).
This actually happened in my town about 10 years ago.
Sue and her husband were members of our church at that time, where she taught Sunday School. I knew her from church, and they were both always nice, but I would never had called them "close friends". We just didn't know them that well.She was also a member of the local woman’s club. Tim was unemployed at the time, but worked doing occasional repairs for his father-in-law’s business.
Following the scandal Sue was told she was no longer needed on the volunteer ambulance crew. She and her husband began couple’s counseling through the church, but soon quit because the gossip that ensued was so bad.
As a result from the gossip, she resigned from teaching Sunday School and quit the women’s club.
She basically went into hiding.
Tim was “caught again” with another woman from the neighboring town a couple months later. And then again after that. Occasionally you’ll hear rumors floating around he’s been at it again.
Tim’s father-in-law falls ill and has to retire, so Tim takes over the business. Suddenly he’s asked to join the Mason’s, and the Lion’s Club. He’s serving on city council. Next thing you know he’s the mayor of our small town (yes people..the actual fricking Mayor, I am not making this up*).
Every morning he’s seen at the local coffee shop having coffee with the boys just chatting away.
You rarely see Sue anywhere. I happened to see her today. I was at the local gas station grabbing a cup of coffee and she came in to pay for her gas. All conversation stopped. I mean dead silence. She gave the clerk a check and walked out. And then the whispering started. That’s when I left.
So riddle me this DU ‘ers…why are two people who committed the very same act treated so very differently? Why is his transgression (and indeed..repeated transgressions) so easily overlooked by this little town, and hers is not?



* an aside...during the mid-terms, this same mayor took an ad out in the local weekly paper listing the candidates he was publicly supporting...you guessed it! ALL republicans.

[RebelOne]

1. Simple. Men always seem to be able to get away with transgressions.

But women are condemned.

[grace0418]

2. I suspect you know the answer to this but I can say it if you like...

Because sexist double-standards are alive and well in small-town Amurca (to be fair, sexism hasn't been erased from the big towns either, it's just not always as obvious).

Fascinating and sad story though.

[MedleyMisty]

3. Does the small town have anything to do with it?

Sexism is everywhere.

Because it's a small town and everyone knows each other, it's harder for the poor woman to find people who don't know and wouldn't ostracize her.

But I imagine that if it happened in a large city their circle of friends would have reacted the same way.

[bertha katzenengel]

4. Ouch.

I'm sorry to hear of it. But I can't answer your question, except to say that for some reason it's easier to decry a woman for sexual exploits than a man. :shrug:

[Gormy Cuss]

5. You know the answer.

He's a womanizer. She's a home-wrecking slut.*

There is no sexism in America, though. :patriot:







*n.b. for those who have trouble recognizing it, this is a sarcastic post.

[youthere]

7. and that is exactly how she is thought of...

SHE'S the "home wrecking slut"
and HE'S just a poor guy who didn't have any choice.
Jeebus what a bunch of bullshit.

[Redstone]

64. BINGO!

Redstone

[Midlodemocrat]

6. We have the same thing here, and I think it's because

women are held to a much higher standard when it comes to protecting the family.

It's almost unnatural for a woman to leave her children, so I think if she acts in a way that breaks up the family, people tend to vilify her.

[youthere]

9. Well you bring up an interesting point...

part of the gossip mongering here is focused on "how could she do that to her kids?"
never mind the fact that he also has kids with his wife, as well as his first wife.

[Little Wing]

8. dude, you should invite her to DU. at least she'd have some friends to hang out with

it sounds like a hell of a lonely life for her

[youthere]

10. You know how you always think of the perfect thing to do AFTER the fact?

or at least I do..I SHOULD have smiled real friendly to her this morning and said (loud enough for all those assholes to hear) "Hi Sue! How are you?"
but I stood there stupidly and said nothing. I thought about calling her and telling her something like: I didn't have a chance to say hi this morning but it was good to see you..gosh I haven't seen you in so long. Let's go get a cup of coffee sometime...you know.. something like that.


p.s. not a dude..a dudette.;-)

[crispini]

12. Please do call her.

Gosh, that sounds like a very sad situation. :(

[Little Wing]

13. okay, dudette, be a friend

[ThomCat]

25. That would be a good thing to do.

It sounds like she could use a friend.

[youthere]

27. I just never really knew her that well..so it might be a little weird..

she was always nice..we just weren't in each other's circle of friends, but it doesn't seem like she has any close friends these days so I'm going to make the effort.

[Critters2]

28. Calling her is the right thing to do. nt

[bumblebee1]

32. Giving her that invite in public would have been better.

The collective slap you would have heard is the sound of those hypocrites' jaws hitting the ground. It would have been priceless.

[Breeze54]

47. You should invite her over for coffee.

Then invite her to go shopping with you, in that town!

She needs a friend....

[Darth_Kitten]

56. Yes, befriend her........she sounds lonely......

Geez, she made a mistake 10 years ago, why does she feel she has to hide?

I bet a lot of people know the Mayor is a skank, but most people don't have the guts to tell this guy he's a loser to his face.....

[Midlodemocrat]

65. Dear God! You're not seriously considering taking advice from LittleWing are you?

Kidding. Kidding.

I just think that his sig pic is such a hoot I love to give him a hard time.

[Critters2]

11. I saw exactly the opposite effect, also in small town Iowa

A good friend of mine was married to a man whom everyone knew was a womanizer and a drunk. I still don't know why she put up with it, but she did, for years. Mostly, he was out with women from other small towns, not the one where he and my friend lived. But in time, he became involved with a well-known woman in town. She was very active in the Lutheran church (largest church in town), in women's club, in the Republican Party, in every civic group there was. Neither he nor she made any secret of the affair, so my friend finally threw him out and got a divorce.

There was gossip, and the affair ended. He went onto continue his drinking and sleeping around, but ultimately left town. She continued to hold her head up, frequent the same places--church, civic groups, etc., as if nothing had happened. The gossip continued, but she just kept doing what she'd always done.

After a while, I began to think that this was the key. He seemed a bit ashamed, or at least felt unwelcome in town, so he left. She couldn't give a rat's ass about what people said, and so, in time, people stopped talking, accepted that she was not going to act embarrassed or ashamed, and welcomed her back into all the old places.

The man you describe behaves like the woman I know--just going on as if nothing had happened, in spite of the gossip. So the gossip subsides, and people move on. The woman in your story seems embarrassed and has stepped out of her old circles. Yes, she was asked to quit teaching Sunday School, but she could still attend worship, much to the consternation of the gossips, but a little consternation is good for people.

As to being asked to stop being an EMT, I think that was appropriate, regardless of her gender. She had violated the trust of the fire department by misusing the facilities in a pretty egregious way. This certainly would have gotten her disciplined if she were an employee. And I suspect a man would have been treated the same way in these circumstances.

This will get me flamed, but her mistake was in letting the gossip get to her, whereas the man refused to be cowed and to go into hiding. He was out there in people's faces, and the gossips, in time had to back away and let him live his life. He has whatever qualities the town wanted in a mayor--for good or for ill. Maybe the woman does, too, but no one has any way to know that.

People like to think they have the power to shame others into doing what they want. The best way to fight that power is to not accept the shame. That seems to me the difference.

But then, I've never been happier than in a small town in Iowa, so what do I know?

[youthere]

14. I won't flame you...

but that woman did nothing wrong. Her husband was a scoundrel..she just carried on.
This guy is a total dog* and he's treated like he's this fine paragon of virtue and a lily white citizen. no one treated him any different at any point (other than his own wife I suppose). She was "shunned" from day one.
FWIW..I don't think EITHER of them should be ostracized and I do think "Sue" should just say "to hell with them all" and live her life.



*no offense to dogs anywhere.

[Critters2]

15. That's really my point

She should say "to hell with them all" and live her life. I wish she would. But she isn't, and that gives power to the gossips. And people like that, in Iowa or anywhere else, love power.

Neither do I think either one should be ostracized.

[Gormy Cuss]

16. She could hold her head up and still be ostracized.

The gossip would change : "Look at Miss High and Mighty, thinks we don't know/remember what she did."
It's rarer that men are held to the same standard. That's the difference.

[Critters2]

17. She could, but one won't know until she does.

I just have not found small towns the dens of hypocrisy they're portrayed as being. In fact, the people I knew in small town Iowa cared less about what people thought of them than here in the city where I live now. I also found lots of good, caring progressive populists, which I miss.

Maybe it has nothing to do with the size of the town, either. A friend from Iowa said to me just yesterday, after being at a meeting where some pol from Des Moines made derogatory remarks about small towns, "Rural people are the last group that it's okay for progressives to out down publicly." More and more, I think it's true. It's one reason I want to return to rural work. I see rural people as oppressed by a culture that is based in cities and suburbs.

[Gormy Cuss]

18. I don't recall stating that it was unique to small towns. Any close-knit community will do.

You see the same behavior anywhere that the community has mostly long tenured residents. Even ethnic enclaves in big cities like Boston or Chicago are subject to such ostracizing behavior with the women usually (not always) getting the worst of it.

[youthere]

20. That's what bothers me that most..

they both did wrong (not that it's really anyones business but their own)..but she's the one wearing the Scarlett A. Granted, she may be contributing to it (on some level) by hiding away and avoiding people but there's a definite slant to the treatment of these two.

[ScreamingMeemie]

35. In my experience with small town life...holding her head up won't

make much of a difference. The jury has decided. Women should know better and keep a tighter grip on themselves. :sarcasm:

[Critters2]

30. The OP makes a point of stating it's a small town. nt

[youthere]

19. Again..

I agree with you...she'll live the life she has now until she takes the steps to live a different one..despite what everyone says.
And as for small towns..I'd really like to think this is the exception rather than the rule (gossip-mongering aside this town has other serious issues, but I won't get into that). I grew up in a slightly larger "small town" and I don't remember it being like this. Of course..I didn't pay that much attention either, I had "kid" things on my mind then, and now I have an adults "idealized" memory.
AND again FWIW..Despite being in (what I consider to be) a RW Christian "stronghold" area, I do know a lot of progressives out here.

[Kali]

36. ...

:thumbsup:



signed,
a rural person

[ScreamingMeemie]

34. Let's get this straight. She should have been bumped from being

an EMT, but he gets to be mayor? Have I got that correct? Obviously you live under a double standard.

[Critters2]

37. You don't see a problem with having sex in an ambulance?

Seriously? Or in any other place that doesn't belong to you? She was entrusted with that equipment and violated that trust. If you were an employer, what would you have done?

As to his being mayor, it happened years later, and the community has the right to forgive. In fact, if they decided, later, that she had proven herself responsible and wanted to take her back as an EMT, I wouldn't have a huge problem with that.

But she had a responsibility and misused her position. I really think any employer would have done the same.

[ScreamingMeemie]

40. I see a double standard; that's what I see.

"Sue was a volunteer EMT" FWIW...Volunteer. Not employee.

[Critters2]

41. Still responsible, and answerable to others.

It was a careless thing to do, and didn't demonstrate good judgment. If she had had sex somewhere else, I'd say it's none of fire department's business. But to use their equipment was poor judgement and disrespectful of their property and authority.

Again, anywhere else, none of their business. In their ambulance, bad idea with predictable consequences.

[ScreamingMeemie]

42. Double standard. He gets to be in charge of the welfare of the town

while still being a slut. She gets let go from a volunteer position. It's a double standard, it happens all the time and holding one's head up has nothing to do with it. If we fired everyone who had sex at the workplace we would have no unemployment percentage. A scolding? Yes. Dismissal and life long alienation while elevating a slut is over the top.

[Critters2]

45. Please point out where I advocated lifelong alienation.

As for his being in charge of the welfare of the town....democracy is a bitch.

And lots of places fire people for having sex in the workplace.

But I never advocated lifelong anything, so please don't put words in my mouth.

[ScreamingMeemie]

48. I am pointing out the double standard of saying letting a volunteer go

for a stupid decision that harmed no one while elevating the other person to Mayor and being okay with it is the double standard. Do you really think dismissing her from the volunteer position helped? Please don't misread what I've written.

here it is: Someone says "A", mycritters says, "oh no, B"..that's pretty much it.

[Critters2]

50. I have no idea whether it helped, but it was a predictable consequence

of a bad decision. Lots of places would have done it.

As to his being mayor, I'm not okay with it, but I'm not a voter in that town. They may have taken other things into consideration in making that decision, like that the other candidate was even a worse choice. I have no idea.

[ScreamingMeemie]

52. Both should be held to the same standard. If one is shunned, so should

the other. But it was never that way where I grew up either. I was just glad stoning was against the law. Two sets of standards are perfectly clear here, in this case.

[plcdude]

21. Well

what are you going to do?

[youthere]

22. See # 10 above...

I really think I'm going to call. I know she works in the city all day..I'm going to leave a message and let her decide if she wants to take me up on it.

[plcdude]

23. good for you

Pay it forward.

[Blue Diadem]

24. It was the opposite here, the male lost his job and had to move

while the female lives her life as if nothing ever happened. In that case, the male was a "transplant" while the female was "homegrown".

But, I do agree with whoever suggested that it could be how the person reacts to the gossip that could keep it going. I still hear about a spouse swapping group that passed around STD's some 40 yrs ago. Those who went on to become prominent in town are mentioned much less here, but they are mentioned in neighboring towns.

If I may make a suggestion, maybe the next time she comes in where you're at, you could acknowledge her. I bet it would make a world of difference for her.

edited to add: I should read all the posts before I post. I see you're already thinking of contacting her. Good for you!

[youthere]

26. Ah yes. the "outsider" phenomena...

In this case both are "outsiders" that married locals. But the family she married into is not as influential as the family he married into...I personally believe that has a lot to do with his being elected Mayor. too (but I probably shouldn't go there).
And I do think she should just say to hell with them all, and live her life. It's what I would do if I were in her shoes.

At any rate, see # 10 above, I'm going to call her. I never really knew her that well, so it might be a little awkward but then again, who cares? She (and her husband) were always nice enough, they just weren't part of the group my husband and I hang out with. I am definitely calling her though.

And you're right..I SHOULD have said something this morning when I saw her. I really should have.

[cloudbase]

29. Something

something astronaut NASA something something.

[youthere]

31. you lost me cloudbase.

[Breeze54]

62. He was talking about the diaper wearing astronut.

;)

[xmas74]

33. Truthfully?

It's because he's a man in a small town.

I live in a small town in Missouri. I once dated someone for a short time who informed me that he was newly divorced and living w/ his mother. Turns out that was a lie-still married and living w/ his wife. Even though I was lied to I can no longer go to that town w/o whispers going on behind my back, even if I pay for gas or pick up some soda while visiting a friend.

And him? He's still messing around w/ young girls. The only difference now is that they are more than twice his age. He gets slapped on the back while the young girls end up moving away.

[Robb]

38. I live in a big city of about 750

Maybe it's because it's Colorado or something, but to my experience people don't stick with one bit of gossip very long. There's the "news of the week" -- affair, someone getting a DUI, whatever -- then we tend to move on.
I've never witnessed something like what you describe in the gas station...and I know of plenty of folks who would've had such a thing comin'.
Don't get me wrong, we loooooooove to dish dirt of varying degrees of accuracy, but around here it seems like it's got to be new, or it doesn't get much talkin'. :)
As far as gender, I've seen both "get away" with whatever they've done and still hang around un-ostracized. :shrug:

[Kali]

39. I don't really have much to add

It would have been good to say something in front of the others...hindsight etc. Know how that goes.

Of course there is a double standard - and it is amplified in a small town where everybody know everybody and their business.

But I also think her reaction (hiding) plays a role too. (and part of it may be related to dynamics in her marriage - did I understand that it "survived?)

Good for you to possibly help her "return to society."

[Art_from_Ark]

43. Sounds like the "Scarlet Letter Syndrome"

which has been part of American culture since at least the days of Hester Prynne.

[NashVegas]

44. There Are Double Standards - And "Sue" Didn't Help Herself

It looks shame drove her into "accepting her punishment" for being a trollop.

Unknown: whether or not Sue asked the fire chief for a break for using bad judgment.

Other than that, it was her choice to drop out of the womens' group and Sunday School. (Although it would have been hypocritical, at the very least, for her to remain teaching kids the commandments.)

It was her choice to go into hiding, rather than face the gossips head on.

A woman with a good amount of self-esteem would have had a better chance of pulling it off.

[Wapsie B]

46. That's what happens when you live in Mayberry.

Figuratively of course.There are some very insular small towns around. Inbred is a good word. I can think of some more sizeable cities with that characteristic.

As an aside there've been stories circulating about former US Rep. Jim Nussle having affairs as well as another Rep., Tom Latham.

[Critters2]

49. Latham, really?!! Seems like I would have heard that.

The stories about Nussle have been around for years, tho.

[Wapsie B]

51. Yeah I live in Tommy's district.

And I have talked to people who seem to be in the know about it. Ever since Jimmy got divorced I had to wonder what was up with that. Probably a page in DC, male or female.

[Critters2]

53. You're in Latham's district?

Where? I used to be in Wright County, not far from his home. I never heard any rumors about him, tho.

[Wapsie B]

54. Mason City

I was talking to people around Hampton about Latham and were saying there was at least one juicy story that was buried.

[Critters2]

55. I very nearly ended up in Mason City!! And often wish I had!! I miss that area.

Interesting that I never heard that about Latham, not that I don't believe it. He always seemed kind of smarmy, and yet too perfect to be true. And aren't those always the ones?

[Wapsie B]

59. Yes it does have its attraction.

I've found it much more liveable and diverse than I thought it would be before moving here.

[Odin2005]

57. LOL, sounds like my hometown of 532 souls.

Life in little Ulen, Minnesota is like a fucking soap opera.

Oh, and we had the same Repuke moron as mayor for ever, he finally retired and the new mayor is the former principal of the local school, a staunch Dem. :)

[Kat45]

58. Is "Sue" still married?

I'm just wondering if her husband stuck with her.

[Shell Beau]

60. While small towns have their charms (everyone knows one another),

they also have their downfalls (everyone knows one another). And also in a town of 500 people, more than likely, they will mostly be of the same political persuasion. If that happens to be repub, then you are screwed.

[NMMNG]

61. It's pretty simple

Men fooling around are studs. Women fooling around are tramps. :shrug:

[Redstone]

63. Fuck if I know. I do wish I had answers for you, but I just don't. A sad story it is

that you tell, and I believe every word.

Redstone