Thirteen Moons - thoughts on mourning

[LynzM]

So, I'm listening to a cool book on CD called Thirteen Moons. It's the story of a man who joins the Cherokee Indians quite a long time ago, as a young teenager. That's the short version. :)

Anyway, he talks quite a lot in the story about various ways of looking at the world, often in the context of the Native American rituals. What he describes in regards to loss really made my mind start going, so I thought I'd share.

In the story, there is a man, Bear, who loses his first wife at the age of 17. In their culture, the pain of this loss is described in the fact that his wife's spirit tries, for the next year, to cause him to join her in the Night. He must deal with her urgings by waking every morning and bathing in the river, for a whole year, and by urging each of her 4 selves to leave him, as each moon passes. At the end of this year, he feels her 4th spirit leave him, and no longer feels the urge to join her.

To me, there is so much, there. We've lost so much as a society, by refusing to have or allow these kind of rituals and mechanisms surrounding death and loss. To have a codified time of mourning, and expected actions to deal with that, as well as the built-in understanding that yes, you will have to fight an urge for suicide for a year after losing a loved one... I wish that we lived in a society that was so open and accepting of things like this!

Anyway, I'm curious to hear other people's thoughts. I know that my summary does nothing near justice to the descriptions he gives, but I hope that it's enough to share what I'm getting at...

[skygazer]

1. That sounds like a good book

I agree with you - there are many things that I think we "civilized" people deal with less well than tribal societies have in the past.

I recently read a heartbreaking book about PTSD and suicide. One of the things the author pointed out was that in many early societies men who had gone to war had to undergo purification rituals when they returned. They'd done and seen things that essentially were outside the bounds of normal society and so made them "unpure" - they rituals served to ease the transition and to acknowledge what they'd been through.

I thought that was beautiful and sensitive and made so much more sense than simply expecting a young man or woman to resume life where they left off.

[LynzM]

3. I'm enjoying it so far, and I agree with you

People who've been through terrible experiences like war, especially, need societal recognition and time to come to acceptance, to find a new view of the world. Without that, or *especially* without that, I cannot imagine coming back. Our tenant's brother was back last month, and I talked to him a bit, and asked if it was really surreal being back here. I'm not sure anyone had put it that bluntly, because he looked a bit startled at the question, and admitted that it was...

[Rabrrrrrr]

2. Rituals have extreme power. Whether they do anything "real" is irrelevant -

there is much power in ritual.

Everyone from the most benign Buddhists to the Christian Church to schools to the military to Hitler knows it.

It's amazing - now I'm talking about mourning specifically - is that for the bullshit talk about us being a "Christian" nation, there is very little about us that's actually Christian, such as our fear of death, and especially our fear of those who are mourning. "Get up and get over it" we say, trying to be helpful, when really all we're saying is, "Your suffering scares me, so you have to hide it".

[LynzM]

4. I agree, Rabrrrrrr

I agree with the suffering part, especially. We don't know how to cope, ourselves, how to help someone who is hurting, or even just allow them to hurt, and recognize it. I have two friends who lost babies last year, and had babies again this year, and both have been having a very hard time with people saying awful stuff, implying that the new baby ought to make up for the one they lost... or just not saying anything at all, expecting them to be ok, to be ready to handle "normal" life again before they were ready. It sucks. :(

[SeattleGirl]

18. I've never understood how people can think that a "new" baby can

make up for one that was lost. First off, a baby is a being in and unto itself; it is not a "replacement". Second, when people say that, it gives the impression that the parents who lost the baby should stop mourning that loss because they have the "new" baby. It's cruel when people say stuff like that. I realize they may not know exactly what to say, or may think they are saying the right thing, but I think they should just offer a hug instead, or condolences on their loss, and knock off the stuff about the new baby "making up" for the loss of the other baby.

[RevCheesehead]

15. That's a powerful post.

Just what I'd expect from you.

[sasquatch]

5. On a side note

Due to your earlier thread about custom bra sizeing, I think you could learn a thing or two from this young woman.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x6300744
:D

[LynzM]

6. LOL...

Hrm, maybe the next D.C. protest... :rofl:

[Burma Jones]

7. I like the Jewish Tradition of Mourning...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahrzeit#Yahrtzeit

[LynzM]

9. Interesting

I did not know all that... I like the idea of stones, rather than flowers, at the grave. The word Yahrtzeit is very close to the German words Jahr (year) and Zeit (time) as well. Thanks for sharing that link.

[fishnfla]

8. I'm sorry but that book was lame. save your money folks

and it has been roundly panned. Frazier really dropped the ball here, compared to Cold Mountain.

The author just swiped a bunch from history and badly put it to prose ( OK: the narrator describes 3 duel scenes, a duel in which he participated, and leaves it up to the reader to determine which one fits in the story: wtf?) Alot of junk was thrown together to meet a publisher deadline, from what I hear....the ending is just pure crap

The 13 moons thing, Frazier rips off alot of Native American history. Same ol' story: Native Americans getting the shaft from the white boy

[LynzM]

10. Dude, I'm not trying to promote the book....

I just wanted to talk about the stuff he brought up... 'sides, it's a limited selection at the public library, and 15 hours of recording gets me through a week and a half of commuting! Peace.

[fishnfla]

13. Peace to you too. Listen with a critical ear

see if you hear what I am talking about. The second half of the story is not as well written as the first. He just throws historical facts out there, like they have meaning to the story...
I think he just kited the Native American culture stuff, is all I'm saying. Its the Cherokee Indians death ritual, not the authors.

[LynzM]

14. Gotcha....

I will listen for it, especially given that I read some similar reviews on Amazon about the writing....

[Hell Hath No Fury]

11. My Grandma died of cancer..

when I was 18. It had been a very long, traumatic process for teh whole family. At that time, I did what was expected, which was to cry a little and then get on with life. Anytime I had tried to express the raw grief I felt, I could see real fear in peoples eyes -- they just didn't know what to do with that kind of emotion.

But I found myself haunted for years by her death. I would have terrible dreams about her and her house, cry when I thought or talked of her, and feel tremendous guilt about how I responded to her dying process. I was not a happy camper.

Finally, when I was 29 or so, I was in therapy and decided to revisit that whole time of my life. I learned how to grieve, learned the important of the physical side of the process (the physical healing that tears and sobbing bring with it), and "committed" to my grieving process. I grieved on and off for almost two years, at which time I felt I was done. It allowed me to emotionally heal and finally close that chapter of my history.

I am very, very close to my Mom and, when she passes, I fully expect to be a complete wreck for quite awhile afterwards. I have been planning various grieving rituals that will last for at least a year after her death, perhaps longer if I am still feeling the need.

I read an article about one group in South East Asia, I think, who do not bury the person for full year after their death. When the person dies, they are wrapped up and left in the family house, where they are talked to as if they are still alive and included in the daily life of the family. During that year, the family works together to create items for the person's funeral, all the time telling stories about the person and remembering what they meant to the family. Once the year is over, the person's funeral takes place and the family's mourning is complete.

Except for the logistics of having a body around the house, I find this to be a comforting and warm way to say goodbye to a loved one.

[LynzM]

12. Wow...

I am glad the you finally got the chance to grieve for your Grandma... what an awful thing, to have to put it off for so long. :hug:

I agree with you about the SE Asia ritual... how does one deal with having a dead body in the house for a whole year?! But I think that the sharing memories and creating remembrances part is really neat, and important.

[RevCheesehead]

16. Your post is very timely for me.

I just returned from visiting my Dad. One of my rituals, as always for the last year, is to go to the cemetery and talk with Mom.

The 10th was the 1 year anniversary of her funeral. And one of my rituals for marking it was repeating the words I spoke at her funeral.

You're absolutely right about how society fears death, and expects those of us who mourn to at least pretend that everything's fine. But to do that, one has to deny the part of themself that suffered loss.

Thank you for bringing this up for discussion.

[SeattleGirl]

19. I think that is a wonderful thing you do, Rev.

I've never seen my dad's gravesite, except in pictures, as he was buried in Arkansas, in the town his family lives in. But seeing the picture gave me some comfort, as I love what is on the headstone: "Gone Home".

On the 27th of this month, it will be 30 years since my dad passed away, but I still talk to him, as that brings me comfort too.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

17. Compassionate Friends worked for me.

Compassionate Friends is a worldwide organization that is for any parent who has had a child die for any reason.

They also have sibling groups.

My sister died nearly 17 years ago from brain cancer and was a very young 42. So I became an only child, and previously was the little sister.

Going to those meetings and listening to people talk about their kids was very healing, whether they were Christian, Jewish or none of the above. Some parents wore buttons with pictures of their dead child on them.

The sibling group had kids from age ten or so up to 35 or so. I was the oldest one in that group. It helped me too.

They had a fridge magnet that said it all for me: "It is better to speak ill of the dead than not to speak of them at all."

Just talking about someone who has died and having a group reverently listen, does a lot to process grief.

[leftofthedial]

20. if you could smell the river near me,

you'd appreciate the loss of certain rituals

[wildhorses]

21. a return to nature and the natural progression of things

in this technologically advanced and highly plasticated world in which we live...we are eradicating our souls...

thanks for this ...i will look for this book:hi:

proud to be cherokee (not much but, enough;))