What is the FUCKING DEAL with medical billing?

[grace0418]

My husband was diagnosed with diabetes last year. Up until then we thankfully hadn't had to deal with a lot of medical bills. Even now I know we are extremely fortunate compared to some folks (heck, we have insurance, which is a luxury these days). But the bills drive me fucking nuts.

First of all, for every doctor visit and every test (both of which he must do regularly from now on), we get what seems like 10 letters that say *This is not a bill* with a whole bunch of crazy charges on them. Then we finally do get a bill and it's for some seemingly arbitrary amount. And I just have to pay it because I can't make heads or tails of any of it. They could be completely fleecing us and I have no way of knowing.

Secondly, when they do send the bill, I have to set up a new account every time (I do online bill-payment). He goes to the same doctor, gets the same tests from the same lab that get billed to the same company at the same address. But each time they send a bill, there is a new account number. Wouldn't it make more sense for everyone involved if a patient got an account number assigned to him or her? It seems like it would be much easier to track medical history and other information. I can see if different labs or different doctors had different accounts, but this seems ridiculous to me.

Thirdly, it would be nice if they actually checked to see if they received payment before they sent a late notice. I swear to Maude, this is a true story. I got a bill, paid it the next day. It went from my bank in Chicago to a billing address in Wisconsin, which couldn't have taken more than three days. Two and a half weeks later I got a late notice. I call the number on the notice and told them that I paid the bill and my bank said it had been sent out weeks earlier, etc. The woman responded "Oh, just ignore that notice. All payments go to a mail box that only gets checked every two weeks. So your payment is probably just in our mailbox and no one has retrieved it yet."

:wtf:

I seriously had to sit for a minute and take that in. I then responded "So rather than checking to see if you got my payment, your company would rather waste time, paper and postage to send me a late notice? Doesn't that seem incredibly backwards to you?" She said that it was an automatic thing that she couldn't do anything about blah... blah... bullshit... blah. I personally wonder if they're just trying to see if they can confuse some poor old lady into paying them twice and never knowing the difference.

I also think that environment groups should really take it to companies like this. I've never seen so much wasted paper generated in my life.

:mad:

All I can say is that I really feel for people who have more complicated chronic conditions and hospital stays. They must want to pull their hair out. Do any of you have to wade through the same nightmare?

[trof]

1. Just wait till you hit Medicare.

I get about 18 pieces of paper for every visit or procedure.
It's unreal.
And you're never sure if it's something you can just shitcan or if you may need it later.
And some say "you must pay this" and the next one says no.

"WHAT? Mr. trof??!! You didn't keep your copy of form 39971? You MUST have ALL copies of that form in order to be eligible for bumpty bump whumpty do."

god

[grace0418]

2. Oh yeah, I forgot to mention the ones that say

"you may owe $30" but then the real bill comes and it's $125.

I haven't thrown a thing out because I fear the same thing. The only problem is that we already have so many of these letters we probably won't be able to find the one we need when we need it. We're going to have to rent storage space or something.

[Random_Australian]

3. I turn up at the Doctor, pay my $19, go to the chemist, pay my $6.50 for the course

of meds, laugh with joy at how wonderful my coutry is for healthcare, and go on my merry way.

(Well, except I've had a run of more expensive problems, so I'm still saving up for my next 3 medical things.... which is gonna take all my disposable income for a while!)

[WindRavenX]

4. see, why do you bring logic into this discussion?

Seriously, I'm totally jealous of you. :)

[Random_Australian]

5. And what's more all the info is kept under my name, rather than an account number,

so everything just keeps on the one thingamajig. All the records of everything from medical info to bills in one simple account, with efficient receptionists.

It really is something to be jealous of.

[grace0418]

17. Oh my maude that makes so much sense! Even without universal healthcare

it sure seems like medical care could be tied to your social security number or something. These endless different account numbers are maddening.

[Critters2]

7. If the government gets involved, it'll become nothing but a big,

inefficient, wasteful bureaucracy. Thank God we have private health care! :eyes:


I envy you.

[Random_Australian]

11. Except it's not just government in the health system, but it also regulates

prices that Big Pharma can sell it's stuff for. :rofl:

I mean, they still make a profit, but :rofl: it costs f-all for us.:rofl:

I love it. :)

[grace0418]

14. Sure, rub it in.

But... but... America is the best country in the world. Our way is always better, right? :eyes:

[Random_Australian]

23. But it IS so much better....

.... for the über-rich...

They actually pay tax here. Most of them, anyway.

[GirlinContempt]

29. You pay $19 to go to the doctor?

They're ripping you off :P I pay nothing. Sweet, sweet, delicious NADA

[Random_Australian]

33. My dental is going to cost about $1700, and since I live on $240 per week.....

even with this there are not-fun times. (Because there is more than dental going on now)

But I don't mind the $19; it helps keep the system in good, good stead.

Note: I live on that much because my (equivalent of) welfare is not bieng cashed yet. Stupid government makes the process take AGES.

[AllegroRondo]

30. Is that $19 Australian dollars?

what is that, about $6.50 US?

wow, you guys have a great system!

[Random_Australian]

34. No, it's exchange is about USD 15, but more importantly it's PPP is about

$19

[driver8]

6. I got a bill for the radiation on my eye for $28, 638.42. On the bill it said,

"Please pay this amount now". :rofl:

(It seems the guy that did my check-in forgot to copy my insurance card. )

[grace0418]

15. Oh sure, here's a big wad of monopoly money.

That must've been a shock to get.

I'm sorry you had to get radiation though. Hope you are recovering well.

[driver8]

25. Thank you...

I am all recovered! I cannot see very well out of my left eye, but I'm alive and well!!

[querelle]

8. I Pay Nothing

But then again I live in Canada. In the last year I had to be treated for a lung infection, a mild concussion, and a pulled muscle. Cost to me? Zip. We still have to pay for prescription drugs, but my employer has a drug plan that covers 100% of that with an annual $50.00 deductible.

Sweet.

Q

[Critters2]

9. But your taxes are UNBEARABLE!!

Why don't you know this? The Repugs do!

[querelle]

10. Oh Yeah

My taxes totalled 37% of my annual income for 2006. I can live with that if it means I will never be bankrupted by an illness. Why don't the Repugs get that?

Q

On edit: We also pay a 7% provincial sales tax and another 6% federal tax on all retail purchases except for food from the supermarket (restaurant food is taxed). I guess that kind of drives up the 37% payroll deduction taxes that I pay, but I'm still not complaining.

Q Again

[grace0418]

16. Well we pay about 28% income tax and 10% sales tax (in Chicago) and we

don't have health care. Our insurance costs us a big chunk of change and still doesn't cover everything. So I say you still come out ahead.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

26. I'd take your deal in a friggin' heartbeat

So how do you folks up there feel about annexation? Or maybe you could just adopt Wisconsin as the 11th province?

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

27. I work for a big-ass healthcare system

And they understand it's a problem. Our VP for quality management pointed out that he can travel through Europe and get a single VISA statement back at the end of the month showing all his expenditures, when they were made, and even contact information for the merchant. "Why can't our medical bills be this easy?" he asked. And when the VP asks a question like that, it ain't rhetorical -- our IS people are trying to create a more user-friendly system. Help is on the way.

On Edit: Oops. Meant to reply to the OP. OWell.

[grace0418]

37. Thanks! That's good to know. Although I don' think I'll be holding my

breath for it to happen anytime soon. These kinds of changes seem to move at a glacial pace.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

38. Don't hold your breath...

Asphyxiation is probably not covered by your health care plan!

[grace0418]

41. LOL!

Ba-dum-bum!

[mainegreen]

28. Jesus, I pay almost that much.

:wtf: I'm moving to Canada so I can pay lower taxes. Between state and federal I end up paying out 40% of my income to taxes. 5% state sales tax to top that up. And no free any service.

Methinks I'm being robbed blind.

Time to overthrow the government.

[grace0418]

35. Holy crap you're right! I forgot about state income taxes. So yeah, we're paying

about the same and getting way less. Gee, I wonder if it has anything to do with all our money being funneled into illegal wars and giant corporations? hmm....

[Bread and Circus]

12. as difficult it is to deal with medical bills

it is getting so hard for doctors to get reimbursed by insurance companies. They are met with so many hurdles that it becomes not worth it for them to participate with the insurance plans. A lot of family doctors can barely make a professional living these days. I think it is really sad that it puts a strain on the doctor-patient relationship. I am married to a family doctor and deal with it every day.

[grace0418]

18. I'm sure it is. I know the doctors don't have anything to do with all this insanity.

In fact my doctor is always doing her best to find ways to make sure my insurance covers tests and procedures I need. I really appreciate that.

[petronius]

13. But you know, the good thing about our system is how we get

random refunds months or years after the bill. We just got a $400 check for something that we had done at least a year ago. Apparently, we paid more than our share, the insurance kicked in theirs, and the system finally figured out we had a credit... :shrug:

I used to try and keep track (and we really have no complicated medical issues) but now I just shrug and write a check for whatever # they give me - it's probably cheaper that way than to spend my time trying to figure it out...

[Briarius]

19. I had the same thing happen

for a sinus surgery I had done two years ago. Blows my mind the crap we have to go through to get health care in this country :crazy:

[grace0418]

20. I think you may be a lucky one. I don't foresee getting any refunds any time

soon. I do the same thing, I just pay whatever they send. There is absolutely no way for me to decipher what the bill is. It's just scary to think I'm blindly sending money to heaven-knows-where without understanding what I'm paying.

[hedgehog]

45. Here I thought I was the only one who had given up!

My son is in that same situation. He was in for appendicitis a year ago and then for some follow-up care; nothing special, right? He's still getting random checks from the insurance company and random bills from the hospital! He's working on his Master's in Mechanical Enfgineering and he can't keep track of these bills!

[hatredisnotavalue]

21. My insurance company would only pay when I received

a letter from the collection company. I switched health insurance companies. Yes they are trying to bilk you. If I were you, I would take the issue to my US rep and US senator. If enough of us complain, maybe something will get done.

[BlackVelvet04]

22. When the bill came in from my back surgery

the hospital had charged me for medication the DAY BEFORE I actually was in the hospital. I didn't pay it obviously.

Dumb asses.

[raccoon]

31. Medical bills need to be audited a hell of a lot more than they are,

if they are at all.

Your experience is a great example. You also hear stories of double-billing, etc.

While the healthcare in the US is a shambles, billing errors which may or may not be honest mistakes, are part of the whole shambles.

As someone else posted, we need to hound our congress critters about this.

[Blue Diadem]

39. We were double billed for my son's broken ankle..two sets of crutches, two casts etc.

and it all came on the same bill as if he had two left ankles! When I called the insurance company and told them they'd actually paid for double everything, the girl told me not to worry about it, it wasn't my money. Although this was many years ago..when we had complete coverage and my kids were teens, it does make me wonder how many times insurance pays out on errors.

[grace0418]

40. And who do you think pays when insurance companies make that kind of error?

We do, in the form of higher rates and fewer services.

[Blue Diadem]

43. Exactly..

I was shocked then(darn near 18 yrs ago) to get that kind of response from the insurance company. DH and I have often talked about that and how that type of attitude contributed to higher insurance rates and increased costs.

The other problem I've noticed lately is insurance not paying bills even after Dr's/hospitals repeatedly submit them. It took over 3 years for my daughter to get their insurance to pay for my granddaughter's birth.

[Bullwinkle925]

46. Believe me - it's increasingly more difficult to get HMO's to pay anything now ...

I do medical billing and hate it. It's difficult to get them to pay promptly - they deny claims with flimsy reasons and demand for them to be re-billed, or they say they haven't received the claim to begin with when they have paid other claims in the same batch. They are banking on physician offices to be understaffed and not able to keep up with denials on a timely basis. They have a time limit (varies among insurance companies) and bank on the fact that we can't jump through all the hoops in time to get the claim paid.

[Blue Diadem]

48. That's what my daughter goes through with her ex's insurance

for my granddaughter. We thought it was just that insurance company but his job changed insurance companies a few times now and it's still the same thing. I was totally embarrassed when we took her for sick visit to the Dr. and even knowing I was a grandparent, they asked me for money on the bill. Turns out the Dr. had finally got the money for her birth(that took over 3 yrs)..but all her immunizations and other visits had been ignored continually by the insurance company.

[BlackVelvet04]

44. What's even worse is that the insurance company

DID NOT catch the error and it was an obvious error.

[CC]

24. Get a notebook with

pockets. When you visit the doctors or get a test write where, when, who and the date on one page. Staple any paperwork given to you that day on the same page. Staple any insurance papers and bills to it as they come in. Write down what you paid and when on the same page. It does help keep everything together and gives you all you need to argue when they over charge. I know from friends that work in billing departments of hospital they double bill and send late notices on purpose (don't pick up mail but twice a month). They do it because at least 50 percent of people will just pay the bill they get and never check.
The same billing department person told me the notebook thing when my SO had cancer. She had to do the same to keep tract when her SO had cancer and we both caught a lot of over/double and even triple charges. By the time my SO was in remission we had 4 notebooks that started out an inch thick and ended up about 6 inches plus thick.

[raccoon]

32. "they double bill and send late notices on purpose

(don't pick up mail but twice a month). They do it because at least 50 percent of people will just pay the bill they get and never check. "

Thanks for posting. THis needs to be shouted from the rooftops.

[grace0418]

36. That's exactly what I suspected in my OP.

I'm sure there are plenty of people who think they forgot and pay a second time. I've been paying attention so I know to ignore those late notices, but what a pain in the ass.

[NV Whino]

42. I went through this with my mother

Drove me crazy. In addition to all the "this is not a bill" pieces of paper, I got a bill directly from the doctor for $30. I paid it. The next thing I knew I got a check from the doctor for $30 overpayment. I deposited the check. Then I got a bill from the doctor for $30. I paid it. Then I got a check from the doctor for $30 overpayment. I deposited it. Then... well it happened a third time.

GAH!

[Bullwinkle925]

47. Try it sometime and see what an awfully difficult job it is.

I do it and am hating it more and more.

[grace0418]

49. I'm sorry Bullwinkle925. I'm sure it is incredibly difficult.

And I want to make sure I say that I'm sure the people doing the work aren't the problem. It seems to be the way the systems are set up, and it's godawful. I'm sure it must be just as godawful on your end.

[madeline_con]

50. Keep receipts for EVERYTHING

We saved all our stuff last year, copays and Rx's, wrote it all off, and got about $500 more back in taxes than in 2006.

I was just made aware that we could in about May 2006, and saved it all.

Save the "this is not a bill" crap, too. It might be good for kindling if hard times hit. No really, they must be good for something.

[grace0418]

53. Yeah, we keep everything. Taxes are going to be really fun to do!

Maybe I can finally convince him to hire an accountant. He always wants to be a hero but our taxes are complicated enough because of my job (partially freelance designer).

[YellowRubberDuckie]

51. Health care in this country is a scam.

That answers every question about health care in this country.
Duckie

[grace0418]

56. I suppose you right, sadly enough.

I was hoping to be mistaken in that suspicion.

[madeline_con]

52. Keep receipts for EVERYTHING

We saved all our stuff last year, copays and Rx's, wrote it all off, and got about $500 more back in taxes than in 2006.

I was just made aware that we could in about May 2006, and saved it all.

Save the "this is not a bill" crap, too. It might be good for kindling if hard times hit. No really, they must be good for something.

[Liberal Veteran]

54. The deal is somewhere between totally ludicrous and idiotic...my own experience...

As most of you know, I have AIDS. When I first got diagnosed, my doctor's office sent my blood off to an "out of network" lab by mistake.

So I got a bill in the mail for about 500 dollars.

Figuring that it was the usual bill you get while they are waiting for the insurance to pay up, I pretty much ignored it. Something about being told I had AIDS seemed much more pressing than trying to decipher the insurance and medical billing system.

Well, a couple of months later, I find out that my insurance won't cover ANYTHING because it was out of network, so I call the medical billing company and tell them that I can send them all but about 50 dollars this week and can send them remainder on my next payday in two weeks. They agree that it won't be any problem.

I mail out a check immediately and a week later I get a letter from a collection agency for the 50 dollars.

I literally hit the roof. After the first person brushed me off at the medical billing company after I asked for a supervisor because they claimed there was nothing they could do, I ended up getting hung up on about 10 times before I finally got to speak to a supervisor who said "I don't understand why that got sent to collections...you paid the vast majority of the bill in one lump sum and it's right here on the computer that we said it was okay for you to pay the rest in two weeks. You certainly showed good faith. Just send us the check and we'll retrieve your record from our collection agency because it never should have gone there to begin with."

I thanked her, but lord, I was astounded at the utter disdain and incompetence I experience trying to get that accomplished. It should have taken a single phone call to straighten out, but nooooooo......

[grace0418]

55. I am so sorry. What a nightmare.

Is there anything that runs efficiently in this country?