Debates with fundies are so fun!

[Breezy du Nord]

Yesterday in school we were in the library working on our persuasive speeches. My friend Sakara and I were sharing a worktable with three other girls, Mandi, Katie, and Sam, all of whom, except maybe Katie, who's sorta in the middle, are right wing while Sakara and I are more leftist. So Sam asks me what my topic is. It's on abortion.

"Oh, what's your position?"

"I'm prochoice."

She sorta pauses for a second and then says, "So that means you're for it."

"It means I believe woman have the right to choose. If you think abortions are wrong, Sam, don't have one."

Well, we got into quite a debate, it lasted the WHOLE period. Eventually we got away from abortions into social issues, such as the 10 commandments in the courthouse debate. It was very fun because Sakara and I were on a roll.

Anyway, here's the kicker though, what Sam said toward the end of the period:

"I heard from someone that in the book of Revelations it says when guys start marrying guys the world is going to end."

Does anyone know if it actually says this? I've read most other parts of the Bible, but never Revelations. My dad says Revelations say a lot of things, though. It doesn't mean it's true.

edit: Needless to say, I didn't get much work done on my prochoice speech. :evilgrin:

[drdigi420]

1. the bible also claims the existance of

a magic man in the sky

i wouldnt give it much weight

[Breezy du Nord]

2. See, I was trying hard not to offend her too much

As my friend is friends with her. I was about to compare my childhood belief in God to my belief in Santa Claus, but then I thought better of it. When my teacher, Dr. Scott, heard what she said about the world ending he said he didn't think the world was ending.

Good thing Dr. Scott's a little smarter than Sam.

(I'm a freshmen in HS, BTW)

[salinen]

4. Well she's certainly right about one thing

Oh, wait, nevermind.

[GURUving]

3. not marrying

"lying with"

It's a sin, doncha know. (kidding)

[Breezy du Nord]

5. See, I suppose if you take literally

It's true, that if every single man on the planet turned homosexual eventually no one would reproduce, but then if you hve artificial insemination then it really doesn't matter, does it?

[GURUving]

8. good point

but they would respond with something along the lines of "it had to be something they had knowledge of." How can a person be condemned to burn in hell forever if they had no idea what they were doing was wrong?

I always go back to the idea of evangelism. Those who hear the word of Jesus and accept it are saved. Those who reject it are doomed. Those who never heard it are okay, because they never were given the choice.

Well..............

Leave'em the hell alone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Breezy du Nord]

11. That was the exact point I brought up during the debate!

That why God create the whole world where Christianity was one of the thousands of religions? And why would, if he loved them, he send them to hell?

edit: this girl was an evangelical. When I was a Christian I was Catholic.

[trogdor]

129. Because "the world" was much more narrowly defined back then.

In the Old Testament, it was the general area around Palestine. Egypt, and Mesopotamia. In the New Testament, it included most of the Roman-occupied areas. That kinda skews your worldview a bit.

[CanuckAmok]

6. Good for you!

BTW, I find it very comforting to read the posts by some of the highschool-aged DUers. There may be hope for us yet!

I would have told your friend that as a Christian, it's her duty to READ and attempt to interpet the Bible, not just repeat something she 'heard from someone'.

[Breezy du Nord]

9. That's what I was thinking too

My teacher Dr. Scott put her in her place. He usually does not disclose his political leanings, but I'm glad he stepped in when Sam said that if Fred and Joe got married we were all gonna die.

(BTW, thank you for your generous compliment. I'm blushing. ;))

[never cry wolf]

80. By the way

The true fundies look forward to the "end times" where they feel they will get their reward. Somewhere in the bible it says that the end times will come when the chosen people (Jewish) regain control of the promised land. Many of the RW fundies base their support of Israel on this, including tom delay.

:puke:

[oscarmitre]

14. Bible a revealed text?

I think the Bible is considered to be a revealed text therefore not subject to interpretation and analysis, just to be followed. I always find that a particularly offensive notion but I suppose it has served certain vested interests.

[Breezy du Nord]

16. That's why I'm no longer a Christian.

I couldn't blindly follow that kind of dated doctrine.

edit: BTW, welcome to DU :hi:

[CanuckAmok]

17. I've never read it in its entirety, but...

It seems that, considering all the contraditcions within it ("an eye for an eye" versus "turning the other cheek", for one example), you have to interpret parts of it as you see it.

BTW, welcome to DU, Oscarmitre :toast:

[GURUving]

18. It's offensive for many reasons

many books of the new testament were left out because they didn't "fit." If God saw fit to inspire these writers to write their books, what human can say they should be left out?

The King James Bible is renowned for its misinterpretations.

If everyone would just live by the ideas/ideals expressed in the world's various religious books, this would be an okay world to live in. We are like ants that protect our hill. Sorry, but I choose not to spend the rest of my life in any particular anthill.

[mr_hat]

68. Offensive? No offense, but god I hate it when people >

rate "taking offence" as some kind of mortal affront. Pathetic.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

51. Any time anyone believes what an "authority" says

be that 'authority' a preacher or a politician, you can be sure that person can be easily led. Tell your evangelical friend to read the Book for herself, preferably in different translations, and not to rely on what someone tells her. Anything can be taken out of context. Part of Paul's First Letter to the Corintheans is often cited as whey homosexuality is wrong. If, however, one reads what is said in context of the letter, one finds Paul is talking about sexual activity in general being a hindrance to spirtuality.

[Kamika]

7. no debating with republicans is not fun

It makes me consider blowing my brains out, out of the sheer stupidity

[Breezy du Nord]

10. See, sometimes I feel that way

But most of the time I have fun espousing my views.

[Flagg]

12. Have you actually read the bible ?

Technically you're not supposed to go to the toilet









from an old Simpsons episode

[Breezy du Nord]

13. Yes, that was a good one

I always like the Simpsons views on religion. :evilgrin:

[HEyHEY]

15. Stories like that make me thankful I grew up in BC

At least in Vancouver anyway. I met one, count em one, person in my entire school career that was a preachy weachy bible basher, and even she only opened up her mouth if you brought it up.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

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[CanuckAmok]

20. Hmmm....

n/t

[Breezy du Nord]

21. But rape and abortion are two different things

If I want to have an abortion, you can't stop me. That's the bottom line, really. If you force me what to do with my body, well, isn't that what people who rape people do?

[CanuckAmok]

22. I wouldn't bother, Breezy...

..check out the sig. I wouldn't expect this sub-thread to go on much longer...

[Breezy du Nord]

23. Wow, I've never had a disruptor in my post before!

Quite the scandal. :)

[Name removed]

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[Breezy du Nord]

28. I think he's implying

if you think a nation needs to be Christian to be sucessful, you're probably wrong.

edit: who am I kidding, probably?

[Breezy du Nord]

72. Well, guess that was bad call on your part

lol. Just kidding, Canuck :hi:

I usually don't start posts like this, this is probably one of the most responses I've ever had to a single post, lol!

[Name removed]

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[Breezy du Nord]

25. Excuse me, but if i was raped

And keep in mind I'm only 14, am I anywhere near ready to be a mother? Of course not, why shouldn't I have this choice?

edit: Can I assume from your sig line that you're with Sam in the assertion that the world is going to end now that bob and steven are getting married?

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

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[CanuckAmok]

30. Um, yeah, it's her body, so it is about her.

How dare you compare rape, which is an evil act of coercion, with abortion, which is an amoral biological decision.

It's simple. If you don't want an abortion, don't have one. If you don't agree with abortions, don't perform them. Anything else about them is none of your business.

[Breezy du Nord]

32. Thank you Mr. Amok!

:hi:

[Name removed]

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[CanuckAmok]

41. Point understood, but it's only your interpretation which

defines them as human beings. If it's your foetus you're talking about, it's your right to carry it or abort it. If it's not yours, well, tough luck for you. Obey the law.

[Name removed]

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[CanuckAmok]

77. HA! I love it...

Once again, the religious right condemns science, unless it's science which they believe reinforces their arguments.

[Name removed]

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[CanuckAmok]

91. okay, then "secularism".

n/t

[Breezy du Nord]

31. Adoption?

I don't know if you've seen a foster home, but I have. I volunteered there and there are plenty of children there waiting to be adopted.

[Name removed]

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[CanuckAmok]

27. There's something wrong with your formula:

Christianity is not equal to democracy, which is not equal to capitalism. They don't coexist in a natural state.

You need to *read* the math books, not burn them.

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

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[CanuckAmok]

39. They're not even in the same ballpark.

You might as well say Apples + Bowling Balls + Marmosets = formula for a successful nation.

That makes more sense than combining democracy and religion, or democracy or capitalism.

But I can see the corelation between capitalism and Christianity, so I stand corrected.


edit: typo

[Capeador]

45. I don't know. The combo has worked pretty well

in America's case. We are the best nation in the world by far.

[Breezy du Nord]

47. the US does not follow Christian princples

Our homosexuals are not stoned to death. (usually)

edited for big error. Whoops!

[Capeador]

50. Some people in the US do not. That's true.

But I wasn't aware the U.S. sanctioned the stoning of gays.

[Breezy du Nord]

52. No, I mean that

if the US did follow the Bible square for square we would stone people who are "sinners" and broke God's law.

[Capeador]

58. That's Old Testament. Not New

[Breezy du Nord]

61. True.

And I guess I haven't been in a church for awhile, so I guess you're right, it wouldn't be stoning, would it? because Jesus died for our sins.

I chose not to be a Christian because I realized I was just being led blindly by the bit. Who says that the people who wrote the Bible were right? They were men, not God, weren't they? it was a question of faith, something I didn't have.

[Wapsie B]

110. Excuse me?

What does being Old Testament have to do with anything? As a devout Missouri Lutheran we were taught that the Bible was the inerrant Word of God. All of it. Cover to cover Not bits and pieces. So by your reasoning, that only makes the Bible half right.

[Comadreja]

127. Christian hubris?

Pride is a cardinal sin.

[Mrs. Venation]

100. How Many of These Little Bodies

that you are so concerned with and that were unplanned or conceived under other dismal circumstances have you adopted?

People who say they are pro-life are, IMHO, flaming liars. They are pro-birth. They don't give a damn what happens to the mother or the infant after the pregnancy has completed. In fact, many of these people scream and shout and curse any kind of public assistance for these people.

I don't fault you for not having thought this through; most zealots merely parrot what they've been taught to say.

[Szarist]

102. I LOVE when people ask how many I've adopted

The answer is FOUR. All of them very near starvation at the time. So there really isn't a damn thing you can tell me about compassion for children.

[CanuckAmok]

103. That's good!

Now, if everybody who is anti-choice took the same proactive approach, maybe less people would choose abortion.

However, most fundies (and, yes, I'm referring to fundamentalists) aren't as charitable, so they should really shut up, or get off the pot.

[Szarist]

107. I disagree

I think most pro-lifers are very sincere people who really like children. I don't know why they would be assumed to feel otherwise. Must we always ascribe unflattering characteristics to people we disagree with?

[Mrs. Venation]

124. I Think Most "Pro-Lifers" Want to Punish Women For Enjoying Sex

We don't all live by the same morals, Szarist. Some people, notably fundamentalist christians, would love to require everyone to conform to their own version of morality. The problem is that even the fundies can't agree with each other. That's why the state has no business mingling with religion, and religion has no business trying to use the state to force its dogma on others.

I'd love to live in a world where every pregnancy is planned, every fetus is healthy and every potential parent has the means to adequately support a child. We don't live in that world, though, and no matter how loudly the "pro-life" faction proclaims that they're about the children, I'll proclaim more loudly that they lie. There would be no need for foster care, no need for orphanages, no need for institutions to house mentally retarded children, no protesting about paying taxes for child care, health care, education or other such programs if, in fact, most "pro-life" people actually were pro-life, and not pro-birth.

I've heard too many of your crowd say that a woman should be forced to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term as the price to pay for having sex. And I worked in an institution for the mentally retarded, taking care of children who were thrown away because they weren't "perfect" or "normal."

I could never have had an abortion when I was of child-bearing age, but I'd damn sure never have told another woman she'd have to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term.

[Kamika]

125. psst

he's banned


/hides

[Mrs. Venation]

123. Since The Message I Was Responding To Was Deleted

then I couldn't have asked it of you, could I? I will amend my previous comment, though, to say most people who call themselves pro-life are flaming liars. There are exceptions. My neighbors across the street are among them; they adopted 3 children and are strongly pro-life.

If you've adopted four children, I commend you. Let me ask you a question, though. How do you discipline your children? Do you spank them?

[Comadreja]

73. Bash the Fundies with their own book

For instance, you'd think abortion would be clearly condemned in the bible, judging from the decibal level of Fundies. Ask the next one to show you where the word "abortion" is even mentioned in the Old or New Testament. They can't! At the most they can point to an Old Testament penalty for causing an involuntary miscarriage. But abortion is no such thing; it is a voluntary act, and has been a common practice throughout history, especially in Biblical times when famine, disease, and rapine provided so many reasons to terminate pregnancies. "Pro-Life" is just another fundie weasel term. In the Bizarro world of RW religion, one can be "pro-life" and still support deadly military action sure to kill civilians.

[Breezy du Nord]

74. Good point Axel

I don't know why I didn't mention, that's acutally come up in my research in my speech.

[Name removed]

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[Flagg]

34. how do you define evil ?

Because I for one find 'pro life'(pro death penaltyLOL) people evil

[Breezy du Nord]

37. The thing about prolifers

is that they expect everyone to have the same morals. But of course not everyone does. Hell, of we all had the same morals we'd be awful boring wouldn't we?

[Capeador]

40. Yeah, I guess I would expect

everyone to value a simple little thing like, say, the right of innocent litte human beings to live. I don't consider it a boring matter at all.

[Breezy du Nord]

42. Perhaps they do

But it doesn't mean they can't choose to not have that little life off in the world. It's a personal decision, personal as in PERSONal, as in ONE person.

edit: you know, you haven't responded to my question in the original post. You sound like you've read the Bible, or at least the doctored version of it. What does it say about men lying with men?

[Capeador]

43. I'll go along with the choice thing

as long as the one most affected gets to make that choice. Oh that's right: that would be the baby.

[Breezy du Nord]

46. Right. Well, hey, thanks for highjacking my thread

and going away from the original point. Come now do you agree with my teacher, Dr. Scott about the world ending? he told us that it's not going to. Or are you with Sam?

(BTW, as long as that baby is in the woman's body and depending on soley her, it's her decision on what to do with it.)

[Capeador]

48. Hijacking. My mistake. I just thought much of your original post

had to do with abortion, which is what I am responding to



So Sam asks me what my topic is. It's on abortion.

"Oh, what's your position?"

"I'm prochoice."

She sorta pauses for a second and then says, "So that means you're for it."

"It means I believe woman have the right to choose. If you think abortions are wrong, Sam, don't have one."

Well, we got into quite a debate, it lasted the WHOLE period. Eventually we got away from abortions into social issues, such as the 10 commandments in the courthouse debate. It was very fun because Sakara and I were on a roll.

edit: Needless to say, I didn't get much work done on my prochoice speech.



My bad.

[CanuckAmok]

60. My interpretation of Breezy's post is..

...more along the lines of debating with zealots who speak without thought, but who merely parrot obsolete, 2000 year old scriptures and expect them to apply word for word in the 21st Century.

Fundamentalists, basically.

[Capeador]

82. The wonderful thing about human nature is....it never changes

And that is why 2000-year-old Scriptures are as relevant today a they were when written. I find it comforting to be able to look to a set of rock-solid principles that aren't subject to fad or whim of man.

[CanuckAmok]

83. Yes, it sure beats thinkin'!

The whole reason you read what you choose to read, or even have the option to read what is contained in the modern bible, it the "whim of man". It's that whim of man which made you decide what religion, if any, to practice. The same whim of man which made King James or the ancient scholars decide what was appropriate to add or omit from the Bible you claim as an absolute truth.

You claim to believe in democracy, yet you are against the laws of a demcratic state which guarantee a citizen's right to decide to do what she wants with her body.

You claim to believe in capitalism, yet you are against the laws of a free market which allow someone to make a living as they see fit, i.e. providing legal population control.

You claim to believe in Christianity, yet you are against the laws of individual free will.

Your hypocrisy proves what I said earlier; yopur glib equasion doesn't make sense.

Christianity + Democracy + Capitalism = a RW wet dream, impractical in the real word.

[Szarist]

87. Why would you reinvent the wheel?

The same whim of man which made King James or the ancient scholars decide what was appropriate to add or omit from the Bible you claim as an absolute truth.

Sorry, friend. Catholics don't use the King James version

You claim to believe in democracy, yet you are against the laws of a demcratic state which guarantee a citizen's right to decide to do what she wants with her body.

Sorry friend. A person's desire for convenience never supersedes the right of a human being to live.

You claim to believe in capitalism, yet you are against the laws of a free market which allow someone to make a living as they see fit, i.e. providing legal population control.

Wow. So abortion is big business. Tell you what, friend. We knew it all along. The profit on fetal parts sales is staggering.

You claim to believe in Christianity, yet you are against the laws of individual free will.

Sure, people have the free will to kill human beings.

Your hypocrisy proves what I said earlier; yopur glib equasion doesn't make sense.

What's an 'equasion'? Perhaps you need to hang on to that English book along with your math book.

Christianity + Democracy + Capitalism = a RW wet dream, impractical in the real word.

I disagree with your assertion that the 3 things that make America great have anything to do with the Right Wing. And this IS the real 'word' LOL LOL

[CanuckAmok]

90. to continue your analogy...

the wheel is constantly reinvented and improved upon. According your your belief, we should still be riding to church atop four round slabs hewn out of solid rock.

Don't split hairs about bible versions; you know what I meant. Unless you can show me the smouldering slabs god wrote upon, all the "word" of any religious tome is edited by the whim of man.

Amnerica isn't a Christian state, despite the zealots who want to make it one. Theist state, maybe. Christian Theocracy, no(t yet).


I think it's interesting that you and Capeador both joined up today, and are working this thread pretty heavily. I don't suppose you met at the same place proior to visiting DU, did you?

[Szarist]

94. The point is...human nature is constants, as are the laws governing them

America mostly certainly is a state dominated by Christians.

On the ID, boy sure can't get much past you. You can silence the truth-teller, but you can't silence the truth.

[CanuckAmok]

96. Sure you can!

Hopefully someone will be along any moment to do just that.

[Name removed]

98. Deleted message

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[CanuckAmok]

111. In this case...both the "truth" and the "truth-teller" were silenced...

Thank you for playing "DU Disruptor". Johnny, tell them what they've won...

"Well, CanuckAmok, they've won a deluxe copy of our home game, and a hearty 'thanks for visiting'..."

[Whitacre D_WI]

114. Yes, but he did beat my over/under.

n/t

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

130. Would you like a ham sandwich with that?

Or perhaps a nice polyester-and-cotton shirt?

[Mrs. Venation]

128. I Totally Disagree; It's The Woman Who Is Most Affected

Pregnancy can be dangerous, even fatal, for women. It's the woman who is most affected.

BTW, your tag line is quite un-American. Don't you believe in the values and rights as defined in the Constitution? Do you respect the Constitution?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

65. Capeador, I'm a Christian, too, but

one-issue voters of any sort drive me up the wall.

In my experience, (and this isn't necessarily true of you) people who go on and on about the poor little fetuses really have some other issues going on, often a virgin/whore complex about women.

[Szarist]

92. Yeah, why would anybody go on and on about

little tiny human beings being slaughtered. You're right. It has to be something else.

[Capeador]

44. The death penalty is wrong for the same reason abortion is wrong.

But unlike you, I don't consider people evil. Just some of the things they believe or do.

[Breezy du Nord]

49. Ooh, and now you're gone

But didn't this prove me right? Debating with fundies IS fun! :+

[Capeador]

55. I am? I guess I forgot to say goodbye then

I hope you found that learning new perspectives is fun as well. Life is too short to be confined to narrow thinking.

[Breezy du Nord]

57. Narrow thinking?

Believe me, it's not like i was indoctrined to be a leftist. It was my own conscious (sp?) choice.

[Whitacre D_WI]

36. Back to your original question, Breezygirl:

"I heard from someone that in the book of Revelations it says when guys start marrying guys the world is going to end."

This is a false statement. Nowhere in the Revelation does it say this. Tell her to read the Bible before she tries to reference it in debate.

[Breezy du Nord]

38. that's what I thought

I've been meaning to read Revelations for sometime now. My brother read them when he was 12, but then he's made of stronger stuff than I.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

54. you might want to avoid that one for a while

even seasoned scripture readers have a very difficult time with Revelations. I don't know what your spiritual leaning happens to be, but when you decide to read it for yourself, I would recommend a good commentary on the book by your side...maybe a couple to get different perspectives. The waters are deep and many have gotten lost and or frustrated there!

Good Luck debating us fundies!!!
TheProdigal

[Breezy du Nord]

56. That's what my dad said when I told him.

But hey, I'm up for the challenge. :hi:

[ProdigalJunkMail]

59. have at it, then by all means!

I would at the very least recommend small chunks and look a little into the history of the churches (represented by lampstands in the book) so you can have a little perspective when Christ is speaking to the various churches. A little pre-reading will go a long way. And try not to be too frustrated if you come across something that you don't have a reference for. There is much there that refers back to prophesies from the Old Testament.

Good Luck, again!
TheProdigal

[Comadreja]

126. Incoherent, not deep

Yeah, I guess you could say that Revelation is "deep" alright. It is indecipherable. John may very well have been on mushies when he had his hallucination. "Interpret" it any way you want, kind of like Nostradamus.

[styersc]

62. Same sex marriage may lead to the end of the world but I predict-

that it will be very good for caterers. Twice as many weddings every year!!! And catering gay weddings will be much more fun then catering "rubber chicken and london broil" straight weddings. Even in the south where a wedding reception can be tea and cookies by a punch bowl- caterers are definitely going to benefit from same sex marriage.

Of course until God brings down his wrath- in which case I guess we're all pretty much screwed.

[Breezy du Nord]

64. lol

See, these anti-gay union people are impeding economic progress.

[CanuckAmok]

67. YAY! styersc, thanks for the new sig!

...

[IronLionZion]

63. I'm Catholic and have had enough of those debates

I'm pro-choice and just about everyone else in my religion is die-hard pro-life. I say choose no to abortion and yes to adoption. The craziest answer I've heard is no to adoption because it is our Catholic duty to have and raise as many Catholics as we can.

Too many damn hypocrites will claim to be pro-life yet will not adopt kids. Whose life are they pro? Orphanages/foster homes and then out on your own at 18 is not an ideal life for any kid. I plan to adopt later on...much later on since I'm still in school.

[Breezy du Nord]

66. I may also

I'm not sure if I'd like to be a mother, but if I did I would definitely adopt. The world has enough children in it, I would feel better giving one a good life rather than making one of my own.

[IronLionZion]

69. indeed, the way to reduce abortions is to increase adoptions

like finding some girl who wants an abortion and offering to adopt her baby. Some progressive Catholics do this instead of ramming their self-rightous horseshit down everyone's throat. The catch is that they often raise the child to be Catholic but whatever.

[Breezy du Nord]

70. Well, I guess they can raise their child how they want

I think that's why it would be good to encourage gay unions, because the logical way for gays to have children is to adopt.

[CanuckAmok]

71. That's better...

One of the reasons this is such a fundie hotbutton for me is that most of these self-righteous asses are always screaming about the right to life, yet consitently vote for governments which don't support families, single mothers, etc.

I say, if you're so gung-ho about protecting the lives of the unborn, don't vote for RW candidates who will make their lives hellish once they're born. Adopt, support charities and anti-poverty initiatives, and sex ed in schools, or shut the F up.

Sorry if I'm a little emphatic.

[Aristus]

75. Anyway, Capeador is probably just mourning all the little white

babies that are going unborn. He/she probably cheered when the shocking and awful "Shock and Awe" campaign butchered thousands of little brown-skinned Iraqi children. But they weren't Christian, so it didn't matter. Anyway, once they're born, they're fair game, right?

God, the fundies make me sick.

I'm a pro-choice, liberal Christian, Capeador. Gotta problem with that?

[Breezy du Nord]

76. That was quite the heated little debate, wasn't it?

But at least he was consistent. I mean, I never understood RWers who were prolife but supported the death penalty.

[CanuckAmok]

78. I think he was anti-death penalty, or so he said.

But, whatever...as if he'll (she'll?) be back.

[Aristus]

79. The ones I can't understand the the ones who proclaim B*sh

a 'decent moral Christian man'. As if to be any of those things one simply has to avoid extramarital affairs. The Chimp has butchered thousands of human beings in his fevered quest to look macho and tough. His administration is so abysmally corrupt it makes the Harding administration look like a Boy Scout jamboree, and he can't open his mouth without a lie falling out. But as long as he's faithful to Pickles, he 'a moral upstanding Christian'.

That's what is known as moral relativism, gang.

[Name removed]

104. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Szarist]

97. You imply that

the millions of Catholics who oppose abortion are fundamentalists who take the Bible literally. This shows you have no idea what you are talking about. Just as your canned propaganda about pro-lifers not caring about families and single mothers is patently false.
The Catholic Church is the largest private donor in the world to the poor.

[CanuckAmok]

101. If you consider the fact that they are the world's largest...

...private collector of money FROM the poor, that's not very comforting.

[Szarist]

108. Nobody forces anyone to contribute

but even so, why is it bad if some people without much help others without much?

[CanuckAmok]

106. And wait, idn't it supposed to be a "revealed text"?

So, if you're not following it to the letter, aren't you defying god?

[Szarist]

109. The Catholic Church

doesn't take it literally. We believe the Bible uses lots of parables and stories to drive home points. I guess others take it word for word

[Name removed]

88. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Kamika]

89. I think it's the hypocrisy of it all

someone who is anti abortion, doesn't care if the kid grows up with some crack addicted mom, or in some hell of an orphanage, aslong as the kid isn't abrted..

If pro abortionists doesn't adopt they atleast aren't hyprocritical

[Szarist]

95. Where did you get the notion

that pro-lifers don't care about kids after birth? That's utterly preposterous. I think you've bought into some propaganda. You certainly haven't observed what you said.

[Kamika]

99. based on demographics

The majority of ppl anti-abortion are conservatives who want's to cut aid to poor ppl, wants to cut money to childrens education, and awhole lot of other things.


Basicly once the mom has her kid they don't want her to get any help with the kid even though they frced her to have it

[Name removed]

105. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Kamika]

113. no! omg someone fill me in

what did I miss

[CanuckAmok]

115. As I recall...

it was a statement that most anti-choicers are Catholics, and Catholics made up a majority of the Dem party. Therefore, your statement that most anti-choice supporters are conservative as wrong, and you were spouting hate-filled propaganda.

I may not remember correctly, but I think what got the post removed was the use of the term "pro-death" to describe people posting here on the pro-choice side.

Actually, the tombstone should be relabeled, as they did disrupt well, not poorly.

Anyway, it's all over...nothing to see here, folks.

[Kamika]

117. oh ok thanks

I must say I'm dissappointed in the less then harsch flaming I got

[TankLV]

116. "Love Affair of the Fetus"

Short duration.
Intense.
Ends when a baby is born.

Gotta love Joclyn Elders

[CanuckAmok]

118. Haven't read it...what's the gist (jist?)?

n/t

[CanuckAmok]

93. That's bats. I know many pro-choice people who have adopted.

In fact, of the six families I know with adopted children, five are pro-choice.

I don't think it's curious at all. I bet you know far more people who are anti-choice than who are pro-choice, so there's no mystery in why your personal experience is what you claim it is.

[gator_in_Ontario]

81. What a fascinating thread!

if this is the future of the liberalism, I have hope. Good luck with Revelations...personally I think hallucinogenic drugs were involved....but that's me

*note* thank you universe for spell check in re "hallucinogenic"....whew

[dawn]

112. I feel for you, debating with fundies.

It's impossible to do.

I wish they would just live and let live. I find it funny that many Republicans, the party of "less government," love it when government puts their noses into your business, whether it's gay rights, civil rights (Patriot Act), or reproductive issues.

And why do so many that oppose abortion also oppose birth control, especially the morning-after pill?

[Breezy du Nord]

119. Yowsa.

Lotta stuff happened on my own thread while I was gone. If I hadn't been babysitting I coulda joined in. Darn!

*Note* This is the first time one of my posts got over a hundred! Yay to me, lol. ;)

[CanuckAmok]

120. Why are you babysitting, you child-hating hypocrite?!

Just joshin' ya, Breezygirl! :hi:

[Kamika]

121. yah but you got illegal help lol

a freeper turned up.

You gotta remove his threads and his answers to get the real nr :p

[Breezy du Nord]

122. The sad thing is

even if I took away all of Coatedor's posts it would still be the most! :P