Home renovation questions - advice, opinions, suggestions needed

[malta blue]

Also posted in the DIY forum...


I was looking at a Victorian home in upstate NY that was in perfect, renovated condition. We were outbid on it - yes - I am soooooo sad. Anyhow, there is another house, further on the same street with 7 bedrooms and 2 baths. Granted, we don't need that many rooms, but it is nice to have the options to use them for different functions. It needs A LOT of work. Here are some pics:


Exterior:


First floor:



Bedroom:


Kitchen:



My questions are:

Would any of you throw yourselves into a project like this?
How do you get rid of those tiled drop in ceilings? Cost?

Any and all opinions or suggestions are welcome.

Thanks DUers



on edit: links

[Midlodemocrat]

1. Links aren't working.

[malta blue]

3. Links are up now - whatcha think?

[Midlodemocrat]

5. How structurally sound is the building?

The front facade needs some definite curb appeal, but I love those wood floors. I think you could easily turn it into a showplace.

[malta blue]

6. Structurally it appears to be quite sound. It has

a full stone foundation and a slate roof. The exterior is wood, and I would probably not replace it with siding, I would just paint. I think with some landscaping it may clean it up a bit. My concern is all that darn wallpaper and the drop in ceiling.

[Midlodemocrat]

8. On a building that old, I would *think* that the wallpaper is over

plaster, which will make it much easier to remove than if it were over drywall.

The drop in celing can't be too difficult, they are always replacing those things on the HGTV shows and what not.

I would say, Go For It!!!

[malta blue]

10. I figure I have a couple of options...

I can buy and get the work done before I move in, or buy, move in and get it done room by room. Either way, it may be a big job, but I sooo wanted to live in this little village.

[Katina]

11. tip for removing wallpaper

prepare a spray bottle of 50% water/ %50 vinegar and then spray on the paper. Let is soak and then you can pretty much scrape the paper off. The vinegar disolves the glue and it's safe (chemical free) to use.
Once the paper is down, you then wash the walls with the vinegar solution to remove any residual glue. Then you are good to go with any crack repairs & priming.

[malta blue]

13. Thanks Katina!

You are full of good information!

[merh]

2. the links don't work

7 bedrooms means a workout room and an office, an arts & crafts room, a sewing room :)

Sorry you were outbid on the other, hope this one works out. :hi:

[malta blue]

4. That is what I was thinking...plus it has an in-law apt

set up so we don't have to heat it all at once.

[merh]

15. sounds great

you could live in the in-law apartment while getting the rest of the house ready.

drop ceilings are petty easy to deal with.
Here ya go http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/tvprograms/asktoh/qaarticle/0,16588,564114,00.html

[malta blue]

16. AHA - I never thought of that part

Thanks for the link...I will bookmark it for future.

[Katina]

7. are the ceiling tiles floating on the grid

or are they glued to the plaster ceiling underneath?
If they are just on the grid, you can remove them and then dismantel and remove the grid. Keep in mind that there will be repair work needed on the actual ceiling so you may end up having to sheet rock the ceiling as the way to repair it. If the tiles are glued to the ceiling, then it's even more of a job. It's labor intensive, but not really that hard. We had sheet panel on the walls of our old house. When we removed it, it had been glued to the plaster wall and removing the panels did some damage. We spackeled the holes and then covered the walls with sheet rock. They turned out great.

Good luck, the house looks like it has a lot of charm and features that you don't get in new homes.

[malta blue]

9. Those are great questions!

I will try to find out. That surely makes a difference.

:hi:

[Katina]

12. I enjoy doing home repair

some people hate it, but it has been fun for me and my spouse.

Good luck.

[malta blue]

14. I have never attempted anything like this so I am

somewhat apprehensive about it.

[Kashka-Kat]

17. LOOKS PROMISING

Looks like it could be FUN, if the price is right. Looks like its in decent condition, you could move in and live there quite comfortably while you take your time about doing the restoration. Its recommended that you live in an old house for a year and let the house speak to you before doing any serious rehab.

Gotta remove those dropped ceilings first thing though! They're easy to remove, generally held in place by metal framing or perhaps wood strips so quite easy to knock down. Demo is lots of fun! The plaster above will probably not be in the best of shape-- thats generally why its covered up, although some people covered up perfectly good ceilings in the 1970s to save energy. Unless its completely falling down, plaster can be easily repaired.

Check out oldhouseweb.com - great forum for old house lovers. These are people who can tell you how to do plaster repair, how to repair old wooden windows w/ the weights & pulleys, etc. And advise you before you purchase.I've learned many things from them. The folks at Home Depot usually won't be much help to you--they generally only know "new house" fixes like drywall, vinyl windows, etc.

[Kashka-Kat]

18. LOOKS PROMISING

Looks like it could be FUN, if the price is right. Looks like its in decent condition, you could move in and live there quite comfortably while you take your time about doing the restoration. Its recommended that you live in an old house for a year and let the house speak to you before doing any serious rehab.

Gotta remove those dropped ceilings first thing though! They're easy to remove, generally held in place by metal framing or perhaps wood strips so quite easy to knock down. Demo is lots of fun! The plaster above will probably not be in the best of shape-- thats generally why its covered up, although some people covered up perfectly good ceilings in the 1970s to save energy. Unless its completely falling down, plaster can be easily repaired.

Check out oldhouseweb.com - great forum for old house lovers. These are people who can tell you how to do plaster repair, how to repair old wooden windows w/ the weights & pulleys, etc. And advise you before you purchase.I've learned many things from them. The folks at Home Depot usually won't be much help to you--they generally only know "new house" fixes like drywall, vinyl windows, etc.

[malta blue]

19. Thanks so much for the information!

I am so heartbroken over losing the other house, but I am still determined to get a Victorian in that freaking little town!

[MorningGlow]

20. Malta! No way!

You didn't get the other house? :cry: I'm so sorry!

This one is a diamond in the rough. If you get it for cheap enough, you definitely can renovate it. I love the hardwood floors and the pillars.

Dropceiling? PFFF--just start yankin'! :rofl:

Seriously, we had a dropceiling in a room on the main floor of our fixerupper--it's going to be DH's office--and we just yanked it down. However, beware of tons of plaster dust coming down too, depending on what's behind it. Tip up one of the panels and take a peek with a flashlight.

Wallpaper--some previous owner of our home painted over the wallpaper in the upstairs hallway. They used a faux finish--better to hide the seams and such. Meh. It's okay--I've been living with it for a year and a half--I don't really "see" it--it doesn't bug me--so it can stay for a while. But I think using the vinegar/water solution to pull it down is better in the long run (so you don't have to renovate twice).

[malta blue]

21. YUP - I got outdone on the other house....

This one is 50k less, on the same street - just on the east side of town. I am still in shock about losing the house, though, but I must keep looking.

I just fear the amount of work - but merh had the suggestion that we could live in the inlaw apartment while the house was getting work done. My friend has offered to come over every weekend to help rip out wallpaper...it's really just that I wanted a house with very little to do. My life is quite complicated with little MB, law school and a husband....grrrr.

[MorningGlow]

22. That's a shame

To be perfectly, brutally honest, it IS a lot of work. If you want a house with very little to do, you might end up resenting the fixerupper, poor thing that just needs a lot of love (and time). With a house like that, you REALLY have to decide whether you can take on that much renovation, especially if you can't afford to lay out the beaucoup bux it takes to have contractors do it for you.

And I'm typing those blunt words sitting in the middle of a work-in-progress. We got our house for fairly cheap (not cheap enough if you ask me), and we immediately shredded it. Trouble is, because I can only do so much (painting etc.) and DH, the official family handyman, is working a FT job plus many hours of freelancing so I can stay home with MG Jr., the big renovations are not getting done. And that's frustrating. :(

I have already informed DH that the next house we get will NOT, for the first time (this is our third house), be a fixerupper. He is a firm believer in "get a cheap house and fix it up" so we have lower mortgage payments, but then we end up doling out thousands upon thousands within the first few years to get the house in a livable condition. I am now in the camp of "pay more each month over the life of the mortgage and spend very little on renovations."

We'll see if we can come to terms by the time we're ready to sell this lovely old leviathan. :)

[malta blue]

24. You see, Mr MB is not handy AT ALL so anything would really

fall on me to do, and I find that thought completely overwhelming. I can paint, spackle, sand, etc. but I cannot get up on a ladder and hang a chandelier, for example.

Grrrr...I think I have to go with a house that is already liveable. That means paying more...and my beautiful little house is gone. x(

[MorningGlow]

38. That really is something to consider

I'm just like you--paint, spackle, etc., no problem--even some carpentry isn't beyond me--but electrical or plumbing? Not so much.

I really hate to recommend that you not take it, because I'm a bleeding-heart dysfunctional-house-enabler--if it looks like shit but could be great, I am SO THERE. And then we go through hell trying to get stuff in shape with no cash and no time.

I like the house you posted downthread--got any interior shots yet? Is it in a neighborhood you'd like?

[Sanity Claws]

23. I would not do it.

Some things I'd like you to consider:

1. Do you work full-time? If so, how do you feel about taking on a second full-time job?
2. How used are you to physical labor? If not used to heavy work, you will feel soreness in muscles you never knew you had. Aspirin suddenly becomes a necessity to add to every shopping list.
3. Do you consider your home a refuge from the outside world? If so, a fixer-upper is certainly not a refuge. Instead, everytime you look around, you see more to do and feel guilty.
4. Once you get past the renovation stage, you end up with more house than you need. I'm in a downsizing mode and realize that I don't need all this stuff that I've accumulated over the 20 years I've lived in my house. Stuff expands to fit the space you have. Do you really want to do that? Remember, a more modest-sized living space means more modest-sized acquisitions. This can translate into greater savings.

I'd say wait and get something else.

[malta blue]

25. Thanks for your insight - I think DH would agree with your

POV on the acquisition front.

I do work full time, and will be attending law school full time in the next 18 months. I am ok with physical labor, but hell, I can be as lazy as the next person.

I find your comments very helpful!

Thanks
:hi:

[Shine]

26. OMG, it's beautiful!! It looks huge, too.

:thumbsup: I'm not a DIY kinda gal, so I don't have any advice or specific suggestions to offer, but I wanted to say I think the place looks amazing and it seems to have a lot of promise.

Wow, 7 bedrooms! :wow: Do you have ANY idea how much a house of that size would cost out here on the central Californian coast?!! Millions of dollars, trust me.

I'm sure you're getting a good deal. Have fun, good luck. Sorry the other place didn't work out, but obviously it wasn't meant to be.

I didn't know you were looking for a place. I'll hold a good vision for you finding the perfect home of the heart. :loveya:

:hi:

[malta blue]

27. Thanks Shine

You always have such kind things to say :hug:

I am afraid that it will be too much work, although I like the architectural details inside, and I am quite fond of merh's idea of living inthe in-law apt while the rest of the house gets work done.

I will have to confer with Mr. MB seriously on this issue. If you had only seen the other house Shine...this one pales in comparison...:cry: but alas, it was not meant to be.

I will keep looking...here is another one that is already to go - you got any vibes from this:

[Shine]

30. Oh, that's a sweet-looking house, too!

It looks like it's in better shape, that's for sure. The roof looks good.

:thumbsup:

[malta blue]

32. It's 50k more than the fixer upper

and smaller - but certainly has more appeal for the instant move in

[Shine]

37. OK, now that you've mentioned $, I have to ask, if you don't mind

exactly how much IS that house selling for?! :shrug:

meanwhile, I'll quietly prepare myself to be shocked...... :D

[malta blue]

40. The updated one is 210k and the other one is 150k

Being in Cali....I know that you can buy only a shack with this money

[Shine]

43. LOL, not even a shack, baby!! At least in our area of Santa Cruz

seriously, that kind of money is practically a down payment around here. It's a miracle we were able to buy when we did, about 10 yrs ago. We got our single level ranch style home for about $320K back then....and, at the time, it seemed astronomical. Now we feel like we got a "deal". :crazy:

Now there are houses in our neighborhood selling for $990K+, even for over a million dollars! :wow: That's good news for us, cuz we never plan to move, but still....there would be NOOOOOOO way we could afford to get into the market nowadays with those kinds of prices. I don't know how young people do it, these days, without help from their parents or whatever. The cost of living and owning a home here is really high, but I must admit, it's pretty great to live in this beautiful part of the world. I feel so blessed we've been able to work it out. I know not everyone is as fortunate, so I don't take it for granted......EVER.

The "good" news though out here is that the market is softening and it's becoming more of a buyer's market. It'll be interesting to see what happens....

[malta blue]

45. My little townhouse that I am selling is in a neighborhood

that is about to get a tech park with 500+ jobs, so the real estate is going high, but I can't imagine people paying what I am asking, but they are:crazy:. Again, nothing like out there, but hmmmm....

My mom just found a house on craigs list that she wants me to see....I will keep you posted Shine. :hi:

[Shell Beau]

33. Now that is nice!! I really like it.

I do think it would be better white with black shutters, but still...

[malta blue]

35. I think I will stay away from white so that I don't have to repaint

that often....darker colors hide the dirt :evilgrin:
but I do like that idea....:hi:

[Rabrrrrrr]

28. What kind of asshole takes a beautiful old home and puts in drop ceilings?

Jackass should be shot on sight.

And what the hell did they do to that kitchen?!

For the good of humanity, you HAVE to take on that house as a project, and make it look good!

[malta blue]

29. I hear ya - it is in a very small town that is starting to

boom now - so most of the houses have had really BAD things done to them. I am going to see what Mr. MB thinks...he is not handy at all so I will have to do alot or hire contractors...:mad:

[jmowreader]

44. Come on, Rabrrrrr, you KNOW what kind of an asshole does it

The kind of asshole who's tired of looking at his fucked-up ceiling does it.

Suspended ceiling is the quickest and cheapest way to "fix" a really screwed-up plaster ceiling--run the grid, drop in the panels, you're done in a day. Trying to fix cracked plaster ceilings, ESPECIALLY if you can't get any real gypsum plaster, is another thing entirely. And no, drywall mud is NOT fucking plaster and I really wish people would quit trying to use it as such.

I think walking away from this house is wise. One of the main causes of divorce is "attempting to live in a house you're trying to renovate."

[Shell Beau]

31. It does need some work, but it can be really awesome!!

The wallpaper and curtains have to go, but the floors look great. I would paint the outside again and maybe add some shutters to the windows. The kitchen looks okay, maybe a different color paint though!!

All in all, I think with a little work, this place could be gorgeous!!!!

[malta blue]

34. Thanks for the input Shell Beau

I have to work on Mr MB hard to agree to a fixer upper....

[MadHound]

36. I would take it on, but then again, I'm a fool for such things

First off, take a look at the basics, and if you don't know what you're looking at, find somebody who does.

You want to check out the foundation, cracks, shifting, sliding, all that good stuff. If it isn't up to snuff, that doesn't necessarily mean it's a deal killer, but realize that it might entail putting house jacks under one side or the other.

Electrical, old houses sometimes have old, very scary wiring. Is the box a fuse box or a breaker box? Look at the wiring, is it fairly recent vintage, fifty years old, or that wonderful cloth covered stuff from the turn of the century(twentieth century, and don't laugh, I've found it still functioning in houses before). Again, electrical isn't a deal killer, but full house rewires are expensive.

Plumbing. Unless you know, get a plumber to come in and check the pipes, more specifically the pipe joints. In old houses, it was pretty common for plumbers to use leaded solder to sweat the copper pipes. Not good for children, animals and other living things. Also do a general check of the state of the plumbing. This should include a look at the sewer main that leads from the house out to the street and the city's sewer line. Many houses this old used clay(terra cotta) pipes for their sewer mains. That's all well and good, except for the fact that you're playing Russian roulette with it. Sooner or later, and given the house's age probably sooner, that clay pipe is going to break up due to natural aging, and you're going to have to dig it up and replace it.

Check the roof. I can't really tell due to lighting whether that is a tile roof or a tin roof. Both have their advantages and their drawbacks. Tile roofs look great, but a hail storm can wreak havoc. Tin roofs sound cool in the rain, but every few years you have to get up on them, scrub off the tarnish and gunk, and coat them to prevent further discoloration.

Drop ceilings are easy to get rid of. Take out the light fixtures, take out the tiles, and all you're left with is the frame to take down. It is generally attached with screws.

Check around doors and windows for water damage. In fact if those windows are single panes only, at some point budget in money for replacing them with double or triple panes. Expensive up front, but if you're planning on staying here, it will save you money in the long run.

What is the house sided with? If it's painted lapped wood, I would plan on puting up siding over it. My personal favorite is seamless steel siding. More expensive, yes, but it will last a lot longer and look better than vinyl or aluminum.

Looks like a fine house, and one that is well worth taking care of. If you don't have the skills yourself right now to do some of the necessary work, you can either find a friend to help you, or I'm sure somebody in your area has classes on this sort of DIY stuff. Good luck and enjoy.

[malta blue]

42. Thanks for all your suggestions....

They are great! I am completely terrified now and think I will not be taking on a project this large.

[MissB]

39. Don't do it.

Unless you can pay for contractors to come in and do it, I would suggest that you not take this on.

I've read the rest of the thread. Your husband isn't handy and you have a bit of experience with home improvement projects.

Unless the two of you are willing to spend every weekend and a lot of money working on this house yourself, don't do it.

Dh and I are on our 2nd fixer-upper. He does electrical, drywall, plumbing, wood floor replacement and refinishing, etc. I can do the little stuff like tiling, ripping things out, sanding, painting, designing. We spend every weekend on the house. Every freakin' room in this house needed updating when we bought it a few years ago. It is a lovely old home with just enough charachter.

But years later, we're still overwhelmed by the sheer number of projects that need to be done. Our children will be in high school before this place is even somewhat completed.

It isn't that you can't learn the skills. I'm only saying that unless you and your dh are willing to learn a lot of new skills and put in a lot of time and effort into the house, not to mention all of your disposable income - you'll be unhappy with this choice.

That kitchen is downright hideous!

[malta blue]

41. Wow - you sure have put a lot into your home, and now

I am thoroughly convinced that I should not tackle this.

I appreciate your comments and commend you for all your work!

Thanks missb!

[MissB]

46. I hope I wasn't the only one to scare you away.

On our first home, we had really ugly wallpaper in our master bedroom (it was a 1912 house, and the paper looked like it was from the 30's or so).

We started to tear it down and before we knew it, we had the entire room down to studs. It took us two years to put it back together, because while we were into the walls we decided to add a window and put a door where another window was (and then we had to have our architect design period-appropriate windows for us and ultimately a roof-top deck.

Your house may be different, but my experience with old houses is that you'll always find more than you expect.

[malta blue]

47. No you aren't the one to scare me off

I was apprehensive to start anyhow. All the positive and negative comments in this thread have helped me weigh out the consequences.