I just ground 20 pounds of chicken for my cats. Ask me anything.

[AirmensMom]

:bounce:

[Bjornsdotter]

1. Wow!

....that's one big chicken!!

Cheers

[AirmensMom]

2. No ... actually,

it was four small chickens. :toast:

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

3. I got a little spooked by the pet food disaster, bought the boyz some

ground turkey, mixed it with some meat baby food and a bit of tuna, and they liked it a lot, much to my surprise.

I can't imagine grinding up a 20-lb. chicken, though. ;)

[AirmensMom]

7. I got spooked two years ago

when my Abyssinians got deathly ill from their intolerance to commercial pet food. I started feeding raw then and they're doing great!

It wasn't a 20 pound chicken, though, it was four 5-ish pounders. :D

[merh]

4. did you pluck 'em first?

what about the bones, did you debone 'em?

:shrug:

[AirmensMom]

8. They came plucked.

I grind up the bones, too. They eat the whole chicken. :9

[merh]

19. So do you bake them or boil them?

Grind up the whole thing, what type of food grinder do you have? :wow:

I don't think I will be accepting any invites that include "having me for lunch" :scared:





















:hi: :hug: :loveya:

[AirmensMom]

24. No.

I feed them raw. This is the grinder I have:

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_36989_36989

Don't worry, I would cook the chicken I fed to you ... and serve it with taters and gravy, maybe some stuffing, veggies, and a nice dessert. :9


:hi: :loveya: :hug:

[InvisibleTouch]

79. How small does it grind the bones?

I'm skittish about giving bones, plus I have dogs whom I like to feed with larger pieces of meat for the benefit of their teeth, so I don't use ground meat at this time. But am always interested in more options.

[Poiuyt]

52. To Serve Man

[Ediacara]

5. You're going to cook it right?

[AirmensMom]

9. Wrong.

They eat it raw. :9

[Little Wing]

11. Not a great idea

They might prefer it that way, but I don't think it's wise. My two cents, they're your cats

[sammythecat]

15. Right

raw chicken is risky and no more nutritious in any significant way.

[AirmensMom]

22. Actually,

raw meat contains enzymes that are not present in cooked meat. And it's tolerated by my Abys better than anything I've fed them before. If it's not more nutritious, how did they come back from the brink of death when I changed their diet?

[sammythecat]

33. I don't know. Maybe it was the chicken.

I don't eat raw meat and I guess I don't get those enzymes. I really don't know. But I have heard that it's not a good idea at all to eat raw, or even undercooked, chicken because of the risk of food poisoning. I just assumed that the risk would be the same for any other animal as well. It might be a gamble in which the payoff isn't worth the risk is all I'm saying.

I'm not a vet and I'm not expert in animal nutrition. I guess I'd just ask a vet, to be sure. I mean no offense. Really I don't. I know your cats are in loving hands.

on edit: I just now read your post #20. I stand corrected. And I learned something here.

[AirmensMom]

37. That's because

we have a different digestive system. The food stays in us longer, so the bacteria can grow more.

I actually got the idea from a vet. Then, when I was looking for a new vet (because the other one who suggested raw food was across the country), I mentioned to him that I was feeding raw. His response was, "Isn't it amazing how well they do on raw food?"

There is a lot of disagreement on this subject, but I can't argue with the results we've seen. We've had two wonderful years with our babies that we would not have had otherwise.

Now I'll have to go back and read what I said in post #20. :rofl: Thank you.

[AirmensMom]

20. There is a bit of a difference of opinion on the subject.

But we did it as a last resort two years ago when our two Abyssinians had Inflammatory Bowel Disease with bloody runny diarrhea, daily vomiting, and weight loss of 30% of their weight. The vets had given them up for dead after trying everything else, including every antibiotic available. They are the picture of health now, with no medications, and their diet is blessed by two very good veterinarians ... not the ones who were treating them when they almost died. FWIW, I had fed them some of the brands that are now recalled.

[Little Wing]

42. Fair enough

I had thought it was okay for years, and had no noticeable problems giving raw chicken to cats (they'll eat birds after all, given the chance) but someone with a great deal of knowledge warned me against it.

[AirmensMom]

44. Funny ...

we were the opposite. It creeped me out to think of giving my pets raw meat. The more I researched the problems my cats were having, the more reasonable raw food sounded. What really creeped me out was that the prescription pet food made our healthy cats vomit and it made the sick ones worse. Our veterinary bills have gone from hundreds of dollars per month to almost nothing. Their blood work was perfect just 5 months after we switched their diets, but their kidney levels were off the charts while they were sick and eating prescription food.

There is a great deal of fear surrounding raw food. I can understand that because it would make us sick if we ate it. But we'd never eat a field mouse, either. One of my cats considers them a great delicacy. :9

[YellowRubberDuckie]

46. A cat in the wild wouldn't cook their food.

Why would she? I don't understand. Sounds like something my vegan friend Tara told me one day. She had made her cats vegan and couldn't figure out why they were losing weight and acting funny. :crazy:
Duckie

[cwydro]

51. Cats HAVE to have animal protein

are her cats still alive?

[YellowRubberDuckie]

67. One of them died before she realized what she was doing.

Her vet bitched her out. She wouldn't listen to me. I knew that part about the protein.
Duckie

[cwydro]

76. OMG

how horrible. Poor cat.

[sammythecat]

57. I agree completely with your doubts

of a vegan diet for cats. My uninformed opinion would be that it isn't the best or most beneficial diet for cats.

Another amateur opinion I have is that cats in the wild don't live very long. While that's due to a number of reasons other than diet, their diet can sometimes contribute to ill health. All the cats I've ever had were foundlings, both young and adult, and without exception they were loaded with one or more parasites they picked up from eating other critters.

I'm not sure about today, but in the past eating the raw meat of a pig was a guarantee of a serious case of trichinosis in humans.

BTW, I'm just speaking generally here. Exceptions exist, like AirmensMom's kitties, who actually benefit from a raw diet. :)

[China_cat]

60. Cats are obligate carnivores

which means they get absolutely no nutrition from anything other than meat. Taurine is an amino acid found in meat and, without it, cats go blind...right before they die. Yes, they need some sort of fiber in their diet but that's to make sure they don't get constipated and impacted. Dangerous conditions for cats.

Cats in the wild may pick up parasites from eating other animals (parasites that AREN'T in human grade foods) but they are more prone to pick up things like hookworms and whipworms that are in the soil. Feral cats get the diseases that are -not- food born but that cats that have homes get vaccinated for. Feral cats are prey for other animals...dogs, coyotes, other cats, hawks, eagles, snakes, etc. And, worst of all feral cats are prey for abusive humans. Their diet is the least of their problems.

[sammythecat]

65. I'm feeling like a dunce

and I'm sorry for posting my misguided opinions. I was corrected in one of AirmensMom's comments and should have shut-up. But, no, I didn't. I was aware they obliged to eat meat but was unaware that raw meat was more beneficial than cooked. I've done a little research and I see you guys are completely right.

I was aware, however, that a feral cat, even with a good regular diet, leads a very dangerous and pitiful life. I feel very bad for those guys. It's not their fault. The origin of their plight is human neglect.

I've had one or more cats since 1980 and thought I knew a lot about cats. Thanks for the lesson. Really. :hi:

[China_cat]

66. Well, I'm going on 60 years with animals of all kinds

and in the last 30 with a lot of rescues who have had a lot of problems. My vet for 22 years of that was one who believed in the owner knowing more about what's going on day to day with their animals than she ever could and teaching her clients what to look for, how to do some simple tests at home and how to figure out if we really needed her or if we were overreacting. (Although she never took anyone to task for calling her in when they just weren't sure.

I (and a lot of other people) were horribly disappointed when she retired and sold her practice to a vet who only cares about the money and not the animals or their people. But we found another vet who we love just as much and he's just as willing to help us learn as much as we can to keep our pets healthy.

[AirmensMom]

68. China_cat,

I appreciate your input and valuable experience. That vet sounds like a dream! I'm glad you found another good one. :thumbsup:

[AirmensMom]

70. No, sammythecat,

you should not have shut up. It's good to have these discussions and good that you can approach the subject with an open mind. :thumbsup: :applause: :toast:

[AirmensMom]

69. What China_cat said ...

plus, I don't consider pork a good meat for cats. We feed mostly small animals like rabbit and chicken. One of my cats doesn't tolerate beef, so I don't offer it to any of them.

[Ediacara]

21. I'd suggest cooking it

a freshly killed animal might be safe to eat raw, but refrigerated meat from the store, however sanitary, is still going to be harboring a great deal of bacteria.

[AirmensMom]

26. No can do.

That would cook the bones, which would make it REALLY dangerous. Cats have shorter digestive tracts than humans and can tolerate more bacteria than we can. The chickens we buy are partially frozen -- I don't get the ones from the meat case. And I wash them carefully with running water before I grind them.

[Ediacara]

36. How exactly are you going to grind a chicken with bones?

I assume you're deboning the chicken before grinding. If you're doing that, then what difference would it make WRT cooking the bones?

[AirmensMom]

39. You cut it up

into pieces that will fit into the hopper, turn on the grinder, and go to it! You do need a strong grinder, though. Perhaps it wouldn't hurt to cook it since the bones are pretty small, but I wouldn't want to take that chance, just in case a piece large enough to cause problems got through. But I still wouldn't cook it because that would get rid of beneficial enzymes.

[Ediacara]

40. Wait, you're grinding the bones?

[AirmensMom]

41. Yep!

[Ediacara]

43. Hmmmm... we'll have to agree to disagree then

BTW though, we have an Abyssinian too. Meet Roy Batty:

[AirmensMom]

45. OMG!!!!

He looks a lot like Satchmo! :loveya:

We can disagree ... that's OK. ;)

[Ediacara]

48. He hates me sometimes

His my boyfriend's cat. When Eric's around, he loves him and hates me, but when Eric's gone, he's the cuddliest cat on Earth. He's very curious about what's in the hallway, but is absolutely terrified walking out there. We recently got him a harness so he could explore outdoors... our first try was not very successful :-(

[AirmensMom]

75. We have harnesses for ours.

They don't like them very much, but they will tolerate them. We had a screened porch when we lived in FL that they just loved.

Some of my kitties act like that. When harleydad's around, they won't have anything to do with me. But when he's gone, they suddenly become my best friends. :shrug:

[stuntcat]

47. he's amazing

beautiful!

[Ediacara]

49. Thanks :-)

Although I'm not sure if I could take credit.

[stuntcat]

56. nope, maybe not

but please pass my complement on to him, no joke!

[AirmensMom]

74. I don't do this because I use the bones,

but it's possible to use bonemeal instead. It provides the same benefits without the fear factor. BTW, raw bones dissolve very well in a cat's digestive tract. But cooked bones are very dangerous.

When our Sylvester caught a field mouse, he happily crunched the whole thing up. Sounded like he was eating popcorn! :rofl: He ate everything except for what looked like the stomach and intestines. He said it was delicious. :9


Here are four of ours munching on some of their rabbit.

[lizziegrace]

6. Wow!

The real Gracie has had an ear infection on and off since August. She turned her nose up at turkey this evening and occasionally will eat cheese and chicken.

What exactly do you do with the ground chicken. It would be worth buying the grinder attachment for my Kitchenaid mixer if I thought she'd actually eat it.

[AirmensMom]

10. Well ...

I grind it up (bones and all), add 8 cup of water, some vitamins (taurine, B complex, Wild Salmon Oil, Vitamin E), put it in square Zip-loc boxes, and freeze it until I need it.

Your KitchenAid mixer won't handle the bones ... I tired it and the inside of the hopper got torn up. If you don't want to use the bones, you need to add bone meal to get the right calcium to phosphorous ratio.

[lizziegrace]

18. I'd have to go the bone meal route

Thanks for the information. I just don't know if Grace would eat it. I'll try some ground chicken or turkey first. She's impossible sometimes.

[AirmensMom]

28. If you can,

grind it yourself. I would absolutely not feed meat that came ground from the store. (And I don't eat it myself unless I grind it.)

We have a few impossible eaters. Sashka can tell when we open a new box! :rofl:

[Lost-in-FL]

12. Was it Organic chicken or Chix (made with tofu and nuts)?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

16. You can't feed fake meat to a cat -- they are obligate carnivores

and they can't digest plant protein.

[Lost-in-FL]

25. That shows how much i know about cats

:hi:

[Critters2]

31. And they won't touch it anyway. It must just not smell interesting to 'em

Two of mine beg for anything--except fake meat. The only thing I have to protect it from is the beagle!

[stuntcat]

50. they're not fooled by Silk either.

I know they aren't supposed to have much milk, I just give them a shallow saucer every few days. & once I gave them Silk instead (which *I LOVE- even more than milk now) and they were not fooled. I thought they'd at least like the way it feels but they ignored it.

I've once read about someone who made their cat a vegetarian- I think that's just Wrong.

[Critters2]

53. It's wrong on several levels. And I can't imagine that a cat would agree to it

if he wasn't starving.

[AirmensMom]

71. It is wrong.

Cats are obligate carnivors and most of them don't tolerate a large amount of vegetables. Mine don't tolerate ANY vegetables or grains. They need meat and bones, just like they would eat in the wild.

[AirmensMom]

17. Neither.

I'd have to knock off a bank in order to feed them organic chicken. But it's "natural" ... no antibiotics or hormones, and I always ask for the ones that haven't been sitting out in the meat case. By now, the store knows I buy them for the kitties, so the butcher will even find the 5-pounders for me. :D

I don't think they would eat Chix. :rofl:

[Shine]

13. Wow, you must really love them to spend all that time and energy

I haven't read the other poster's questions, so maybe you've already answered these:

What the hell did you grind all that stuff with? :shrug: Do you have an industrial meat grinder?

Do you then freeze it til you need it? Do you mix it in with cooked veggies, too?

Are you doing this b/c of the recent tainted pet food scare?

I'm sure your cats will appreciate having it, in any case. Feeding them what we eat is generally a good idea, but it takes a lot of work.

We feed our cat dried Science Diet catfood. She seems fine with it. :D

:hi:

[AirmensMom]

23. I do have a strong grinder.

I freeze it in square Zip-loc boxes, about 1 pound per box, and freeze it until needed. My Abys don't tolerate vegetables at all, so I just use the whole chickens (including bones) and add water and supplements.

My cats got sick from commercial pet food long before the recent pet food recall. They were so close to dying that the vet we had at the time refused to do their dentals because she said they wouldn't live long enough for the dentals to matter. Their recovery was nothing less than miraculous after we changed their diet to raw food.

[Shine]

30. Wow, well kudos to you.

you love your fur babies, don't you? :hug: :loveya:

[AirmensMom]

32. I surely do!

I was willing to do anything when I almost lost my babies. What did I have to lose by trying raw? We also feed them rabbit that we get from PA. They like a little variety, though. You should feel their fur -- VERY soft! :loveya:

:hug:

[u4ic]

14. Could you resist

or, like any good cook, did you have a nibble? ;)


Hi AirmensMom! :bounce: :hug: :loveya: :hi:

[AirmensMom]

29. I don't nibble it.

It's raw and full of ground up bones. Just doesn't appeal to me any more than a dead mouse would. :rofl:

Hi u4ic! :loveya: :hug: :hi: It's so good to see you! How's everything? :bounce:

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

27. Where do you get bone meal, and how much would you need

to add to ground meat that hasn't any bones?

[lizziegrace]

34. Can you post the recipe?

thanks!

:hi:

[AirmensMom]

38. PM me.

:hi:

[AirmensMom]

35. I don't use bone meal.

I use the whole chicken, including bones, so it has the correct ratio already. I think you can get bone meal from places like Whole Foods, but I can't swear to it.

[femmedem]

62. There is a supplement available if you're not using ground bones:

available here: www.felinefuture.com

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

63. Thanks! I might try this.

[InvisibleTouch]

78. Solid Gold sells bonemeal...

...and I used it for a while, but I got nervous about mad cow disease. Now I use powdered eggshells. One eggshell = approximately 1 tablespoon which is good for about a pound of meat. Adjust upwards or downwards for your own pets.

[cwydro]

54. Well, hell,

my favorite girl is on my lap and half perched on the keyboard and HER question is: WHEN can she come for dinner?

Mine only get dry food, with occasional treats (pork lovers, tuna haters - go figure) They would LOVE that. Now I'm getting a dirty look.

[AirmensMom]

59. LOL!

:rofl:

Tell her she's welcome anytime. Ours like rabbit as well as chicken, so she can have her choice. :loveya:

[Poiuyt]

55. Don't you worry about salmonella from the raw chickens?

Or is it safe because of the shorter digestive system you were describing earlier? I've also seen cat food recipes with raw eggs, so it must not bother them.

[AirmensMom]

58. Bingo!

On the shorter digestive system. Our current vet told us that the shortest distance between two points is through a cat's digestive system. :rofl:

We don't use raw eggs, though. If I remember correctly, raw yolks are OK, but raw whites are not. I'm too lazy to cook the whites, so I leave the eggs out of my recipe.

[Callalily]

61. I may be going out on

a limb here, but I suspect that your cats are pampered. Something that I would never do.

[AirmensMom]

72. Ya think?

:rofl: And I'm supposed to believe you wouldn't pamper some kitties? Not even these lovebirds? :loveya:

[NMDemDist2]

64. I buy rolls of ground turkey and cook it up with rice for my dogs

spoiled buggers

[AirmensMom]

73. My sister does that.

And she adds mixed veggies to it. They sure do love it! :9

[hickman]

77. I bought a book about 12 years ago about this.

It was called something like The Natural Cat. If you give me a couple of days I might be able to dig it out of the basement. The woman that wrote had recipes for raw food for cats. I think she felt that they needed some stuff mixed in with the raw chicken. Greens and vitamin E if memory serves. Pm me if you want me to hunt it up.