Is 'Queer Eye for a Straight Guy' demeaning to homosexuals?

[BigDaddyLove]

This was brought up in another thread in GD and I thought it merited an actual thread of it's own.

Personally I (straight male) don't think so....what do you think?

[Newsjock]

1. I used to think so ...

... and, I'll admit, that was before I actually watched the show a couple of times.

I still find some of the humor fairly close to going over the line, but they (mostly) seem to have hearts of gold. I was fully expecting to fully despise the show, but I actually laughed more than a few times.

I still don't exactly like the Q-word, and I'd never use it myself, but with that one point aside, this gay man says the Fab 5 are OK.

[Meldread]

14. In the same boat as Newsjock.

My biggest fear of the show was 'stereo typing'. I didn't want everyone to think that, suddenly, just because I'm a gay male that I'm going to take them shopping. I hate shopping. Unless, of course, someone else is spending the money on me. *grins*

[Dookus]

2. Nope...

this gay guy's a-ok with it, too.

[Kamika]

3. I don't think so either

As a straight female I like the show, if they all would have behaved like the fashion guy I wouldnt have liked it, but now he's the ONLY one who's behaving like a stereotype. The other guys don't behave like stereotypes and I think that's a good call.

Anyway I think it's a totally ok show


edited some stuff I thought was poor choice of words

[Dookus]

5. you're on a roll, Kamika...

so as long as gay people aren't TOOOO gay, it's OK?

"He could pass for straight" is something of an insult. Why should that be desirable? Why should gay people even try?

And if you think the other four COULD pass for straight, your gaydar's nonexistent.

[Kamika]

7. err yeah ok

What I'm trying to say here is that I'm happy that the other guys aren't behaving like stereotypical gays I haven't said they should try to behave like straight people I'm just saying they shouldn't live up to the stereotype ppl has abut gays.

if you don't like that .. well not my prob.


I'll just add here that the dance guy is cute as hell.. about my 'gaydar'.. I don't use it to much so I'm rusty :p

[Dookus]

10. well...

with a little makeup and some minor surgery, you could pass for caucasion.

Feel good about that?

[Kamika]

12. lol

Not that I understand what that has to do with "anything" but I honestly don't care lol :D

gets a 2/10 on the insult scale.

[Dookus]

15. the point is...

saying gay people are OK as long as they're not TOOOO gay is the same as me saying Asians are ok as long as they're not TOOO asian.

[Kamika]

16. ok I'll explain it

first off.. you seriously need to chill out.. insulting me when I praise a program of humanizing gays is just stupid .. anyway


I have NEVER said they are ok aslong as they are not too gay.

I'm saying the show is good because the GAYS behaves like HUMANS, like ANYONE, and not like some ricki lake stereotype.

Now I'm tired of talking in circles with you while you're trying to get on my nerves about me being asian, I KNOW you know what I mean, and everyone else do too, there are even others in the thread who says the same thing, that it's good there arent much stereotyping.. so seriously let's just drop it, because you seriously need to save that face now

[Dookus]

18. No, I don't need to save face

you do.

Every time you open your mouth on the subject of homosexuality, you say something insulting.

I bring up the Asian thing as an example to show how the same statements you make, turned around, are offensive to YOU. Your statements are offensive to ME.

Sorry, but I'm long past the time of letting such statements slide by, especially on a progressive board. You should examine some of your attitudes about gay people and figure out why you're so dismissive of them.

And btw, I don't give a shit if you're asian. I'm just using it as an example.

[Kamika]

19. so what the f*ck was insulting???

Lets draw some analogies to me being asian?!?

If there was a program, asian something for the caucaisan guy

and the asian women were all subservant geishas, while the guys, I dunno.. bowed alot I would have HATED the show, I hate it when ppl acts like a stereotype.. I f*cking praised queer eye for humanizing gays while you're just trying to make up that i insult ppl, I have godamm nothing against gay ppl, just stop your BS

[Dookus]

22. This is what's insulting

"if they all would have behaved like the fashion guy I wouldnt have liked it, but now he's the ONLY one who's behaving like a stereotype. The other guys could easily pass as straight if they wanted."

It implies a few things:

a) You like the show as long as they're not TOO faggy. One you can take, but three would bug you. Insulting.

b) The others could pass for straight - you say it like it's a compliment. It's not, really. It's another insult.

I know you don't see it, because most people are blind to their own prejudices. But I'm just alerting you that on a progressive board, saying such backwards things will not go unchallenged.

[oxymoron]

24. Damn I'm getting tired of your insensitive comments on gays.

If you don't find anything offensive about your comments either you are not thinking before you post on the subject, or you need to take a good long look in the mirror. This is the second thread in 24 hours in which you have made insensitive comments on the subject.

[arwalden]

25. You Too?

-- Allen

[Kamika]

26. lol whatever

it's quite obvious you guys are just out to get me, others have written the same thing.. that it's good they dont behave like stereotypes but you just go after me, so lol.. whatever

[Dookus]

28. Yes...

last week at our Velvet Mafia meeting, we singled you out for attention.

Just the luck of the draw. It has nothing to do with your offensive comments. :eyes:

[BigDaddyLove]

32. Velvet Mafia..........

Great, just great.

:bounce:

[arwalden]

31. This Is So Sad

Am I the only person who thinks this is sad? I don't know if it's more sad that you said what you said in the first place... or if it's more sad that you don't UNDERSTAND why it's offensive.

I guess the world would be a much better place for queers everywhere if we would just quit "flaunting it" and stop being so "in-your-face" and if we would quit being so "stereotypical".

Sigh.

-- Allen

[Kamika]

34. to be honest

I honestly think homosexuals would have it alot better if some of you would stop behaving like straight people wants you to behave.


I hope you realize everytime there's a gay guy acting like a sissy there's some homophobes laughing at him and getting their stereotypical images fed

[Dookus]

35. and the solution is for US

to change? Why not change the homophobes?

You really should quit now. You're just making yourself look like a bigot.

[Kamika]

40. ok

I didn't realize you were ok with being a stereotype..

I know that if I was lesbian I definetly would not want to be the stereotypical lesbian..

ohwell to each is her own

[Dookus]

42. well

if you met me, you probably wouldn't think I'm a "stereotype".

In fact, you might even like me because I could "pass for straight".

But you dodged the question - why should WE have to change to please the homophobes? Why does their right to be bigoted trump our right to be ourselves?

Just keep digging.

[Kamika]

46. I never said you should change

you're making up stuff now.

All I ever said was that it's good that there's a show where gays are behaving like humans instead of stereotypes.

[Dookus]

49. No..

now you're being dishonest.

You've said a number of different ways that it would be better if gay people didn't offend the homophobes by acting all faggy and stuff.

Why should gay people have to act ANY way to please other people? Why is it OUR problem, not the homophobes? Why don't you attack how they act, instead of gay people?

[Kamika]

52. you just dont get it do you

it's the HOMOPHOBES that created the 'faggy sissy' stereotype portraing the gay male.. whenever you act like one you are feeding them with it.

[Dookus]

54. you couldn't be more wrong...

You simply couldn't. And one would have to work hard to be more offensive than you're being.

You clearly have issues with gay people - perhaps you should avoid such threads in the future to avoid exposing your bigotry to the whole board.

[Kamika]

55. what issues?

I have absolutely no issues at all with gay ppl.. sorry

[Dookus]

57. yes, you do

you believe they're better off passing as straight
you believe they're not "normal" (you said so below)
you believe that gay people should change their behavior so as not to offend the homophobes
you said in another thread that you didn't think civil rights for gays was a pressing issue


on and on and on

How many gay people have joined this thread to agree with you? Not one. Your views are bigoted, and frankly scary to see on a progressive board.

Luckily, I and others have showed a lot of OTHER people what anti-gay bigotry looks like. You don't see it, because it's YOUR prejudice blinding you. But others see it, and it doesn't look good on you.

[Kamika]

60. youre just making stuff up

'you believe that gay people should change their behavior so as not to offend the homophobes'

I never ever said that, I've never said gays aren't normal, I did say that acting like Carson is stereotypical and not normal.

Oh and I am pretty sure there are ppl agreeing with me but like me they feel this thread has devolved into s*it

[Dookus]

61. LOL...

you said below

"I'm happy there's a show where there are gay ppl who can act like normal people...."


Clue: gay people ARE normal people! Would you like it if I said "I wish asians would act more like normal people"? How you can NOT see the offensiveness in that is beyond me.

You've also said that gay people are "acting" like sissies, and they would be better off not doing so, because it pisses off the homophobes.

And I'm pretty sure few people here on a progressive board agree with you. Your statements are bigoted and offensive and your attempts to defend them only make you look worse.

[oxymoron]

56. What is all this crap about an "act"?

There really are bonafied, card-carrying faggy sissies in this world that catch a lot more shit in their day to day lives than I can even imagine. It's not a fucking act...they are bravely being themselves, stereotype or no. Damn you are being ignorant.

[Dookus]

58. thank you oxy..

that's exactly right.

I've known real card-carrying faggy sissies who were that way all their lives. It's not an act. It's who they are.

It happens in all cultures, too.

And they ARE the brave queers. They're the ones who risk their lives every day just to be who they are. More power to 'em.

[DS1]

43. You have an irrational obsession of being stereotyped, it seems

even in your yahoo profile " Dont think Im some stereotype. I might look cute and all .. but maybe Im not that cute :)"

[Kamika]

48. yes..

I do, I have a big thing for that, all my life I've been stereotyped and it sucks.. thats why I'm happy gays finally aren't anymore..


That's why Carson sucks cuz he wont drop it, and he feeds the homophobes with it

[Dookus]

51. how deep does the hole you're digging have to get

before you realize you're in over your head?

[Hell Hath No Fury]

88. "That's why Carson sucks cuz he wont drop it"

That sounds as if his personality is one that he is "putting on" as opposed to who he is as a person.

So he sucks for just being himself? A "faggy" queer?

As straight woman living in San Francisco, I say more power to the "fags" -- I love'em and they have been enriching my life since I was 8 years old.

[arwalden]

92. "... cuz he wont drop it..."

You noticed too, HHNF? I noticed. Others noticed.

Thanks for pointing it out.

-- Allen

P.S. Lucky YOU! I simply ADORE San Francisco!!!

[blondeatlast]

63. From a straight chick here . . .a lot of male homophobes

are probably latents. I've known of one who finally (quietly) came out. He used to harass gays mercilessly (not violently, though).

[arwalden]

78. Some Things Just Boggle The Mind...

>> I honestly think homosexuals would have it alot better if some of you would stop behaving like straight people wants you to behave.<<

What is THIS absurd statement supposed to mean?

Are you suggesting that straight people actually "want" Queers to behave in a certain Queer-like way? Or did you mean that straight people "expect" Queers to behave in a certain manner?

If Queers behaved the way people like you "want" us to behave, then we would be giving up our individual personalities, we would have to stop being ourselves, we would have to dress and act and talk like Kamika thinks we should all be. How BORING would that be?

How insulting for you to even suggest such a thing!

>>I hope you realize everytime there's a gay guy acting like a sissy there's some homophobes laughing at him and getting their stereotypical images fed<<

So I should change to make the bigots happy? Is this what you're suggesting?

To follow-on and extrapolate from your current reasoning and explanations, I can only imagine that you would have told Rosa Parks to shut up and sit down in the back of the bus too. After all... she was only "feeding" the stereotype of the "uppity nigra" (as my grandmother would have said). She's only making things worse for herself and her "kind", right?

Is this a subtle way for you to say "GET BACK IN THE CLOSET! QUIT FLAUNTING IT!" -- Are you trying to tell us that it's our own fault because we don't "fit in" with the non-threatening image that straight Americans prefer?

I think so. Apparently I'm not the only one who thinks this, so I know it's more than my imagination. I know it's more than me being hypersensitive.

Attitudes like yours is something that I'll never understand. I don't care if I live to be a hundred years old... this type of stealth-bigotry will always amaze me.

You are far more intelligent that you're letting on. I simply cannot believe that you DO NOT actually understand how offensive you're being. I'm not buying your "who-me? what-did-I-do?" defense. You know good and well what we're angry at.

-- Allen

[Name removed]

82. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[oxymoron]

85. I find this post offensive in the extreme.

Saying that we (gays) should not be ourselves in order to appease bigoted homophobes is beyond ignorant.

[Kamika]

86. what the hell

are you reading some post someone else is writing then answering MY post ??

I'm saying (And I'm going to try and write this REALLY BASIC)


Homophobes WANTS you to ACT LIKE A SISSY.

You ACT LIKE A SISSY = HOMOPHOBE HAPPY.

HOMOPHOBE HAPPY BECAUSE YOU ACT LIKE HIS IMAGE OF YOU.


YOU NO ACT SISSY = HOMOPHOBE NO HAPPY.


YOU ACT SISSY = HOMOPHOBE HAPPY and say "HAHA LOOK AT SISSY HE LOOK LIKE REAL SISSY"

[oxymoron]

87. I understand your post.

I am absolutely amazed at your ignorance and insensitivity.

[Kamika]

89. well sorry but it sure didnt look like it

considering you and a bunch of others are writing that I'm saying the very opposite of what I'm Really writing.


And trust me after enduring 30 posts like that you would be insensitive too.

Do indulge me where I'm ignorant

[arwalden]

91. As If We Actually NEEDED Further Clarification... You Drive Home The Point

with very little doubt as to the inner workings of your mind.

You've made it abundantly clear how you feel. I, for one, am appalled at your words.

Until now I had been holding out a glimmer of hope that you had inadvertently "mis-spoke" and that you didn't realize how your words would be interpreted.

I told myself that maybe you were just being "stubborn" and you were trying to re-frame or re-explain your intended meaning (without ACTUALLY having to apologize) but letting everyone know that we had simply misunderstood a poorly-worded and quickly-typed reply.

For a short while, I was thinking that you were more concerned with blindly defending yourself than in actually taking an objective look at what you've written and how that message is coming across to others.

But NOOO... apparently my hopes were in vain. Despite all the opportunities you've had to redeem yourself, or to explain yourself, you continue to dig and dig and dig and now you find yourself in that deep, deep hole you're in right now.

And as if THAT's NOT ENOUGH... you are compelled to defiantly SHOUT IT OUT (one more time) from the bottom of that hole you've dug.

Yeah... you simplified it all right. That "broken-English" explanation left no doubts in my mind where YOU stand.

Sigh.

-- Allen

[Liberal Veteran]

90. The bigots won't be happy until they know we don't exist....period.

Whether we are indistinguishable from the masses or "flaming sissies" is irrelevent. The bigots only concern is what happens in the privacy of our bedroom.

What you are proposing is essentially a larger version of "don't ask, don't tell" which is nothing more than a facade the military uses so that those who are real bigots can pretend they don't really have to serve with gay people.

[roughsatori]

23. You wrote: "the GAYS behaves like HUMANS"

Kamika, it is NOT possible for a Gay or Lesbian to be anything but human. And your statement is insulting to me.

Your posts at DU regarding Gays and Lesbians have shown a consistent trait of inhumanity in your thoughts regarding us. I think that history of your words is what follows you every time you feel compelled to comment on homosexuality, or anything peripheral to the subject.

[arwalden]

20. Oh My God

Sometimes you just amaze me, Kamika.

-- Allen

[BigDaddyLove]

11. I can't say my 'gaydar' is any good...........

but I would say that of all of them Ted and maybe Thom could be 'mistaken' for being straight.

[markses]

27. Let me try to mediate this thing

Here's what i think kamika was trying to say (though I must admit that the sentence "The other guys could easily pass as straight if they wanted" struck me as just awful, so I get where the criticism is coming from:

1. there is a negative stereotype of gay men that is often used to aim humor (i.e., violence) against them.

Example: I walked out of the dreadful film "The Rock" because an early scene included a "prissy" gay hairstylist who was a flubbering wimpy boy compared to the real "brave" "men" in the movie. That was a negative stereotype, with the way the characters are VALUED shining through.

2. Luckily, QEFTSG doesn't draw on those negative stereotypes, but rather complicates the image of gayness by blurring the traditional boundaries usede to sanction exclusion and violence.

OK. Here's what I think the problem is. First, there seems to be an implicit value in straightness in the poorly chosen "some of them could pass for straight" claim (i.e., straight = good). Where Kamika - in the best reading - is saying "The show blurs the boundaries of gay/straight and therefore productively complicates gayness," other folks are hearing "Lucky they all ain't as faggy as Carson."

I think we meet in the middle here by pointing out the mistake: Carson is not necessarily a bad gay stereotype. In fact, I don't at all see him functioning like the "mary" in The Rock. Of course the "gay clone" phenomenon is a particularly hairy one (NPI! ;-) in queer theory, but we shouldn't default to either 1. Carson is nothing more than a stereotype and (on that basis) 2 carson is a negative stereotype. That's Kamika's mistake, as I see it. What Carson shows you is that gay culture has EMBRACED some of the negative stereotypes and, instead of resisting them, REVALUED them.

In other words, Carson can be flamboyant and faaaabulous without being necessarily the hetero version of a "bad fag." One strategy for resisting the violence of hetereoculture is to grab that which it uses against gay culture and make it do other work. I think because Kamika fails to notice this mode of resistance, the posts start to look like "There is a bad fag stereotype, and nothing can be done with it." A particularly brutal operation if one lives and feels like Carson, and if ones politics are part of that life and feeling.

Hence, the negative replies to Kamika's post. Point being, Carson can either be the "bad" stereotype, or ONE WAY OF RESISTING THAT STEREOTYPE. I personally think he is the latter. This is a judo move in gay culture. (Also notice the revaluation of the word "Queer").

[Kamika]

30. You're partly right i guess

I just don't like stereotypes at all. even if they are "good".. stereotyping is awful and I know because ppl often have madeup ideas on how I am by just looking at me..

Thats why I'm happy theres a show where there are gay ppl who can act like normal people instead of trying to be a gay stereotype likegay ppl in ricki lake etc..


Anyway most of the ppl angry now are ppl who's been angry at me for a long time I guess and just desperatly are trying to find stuff on me.. wouldn't surprise me if they've alerted my post like hell by now saying how anti - gay I am etc.. but like..

whatever

[Dookus]

33. AARRRGGGGHHH!

"I'm happy there's a show where there are gay ppl who can act like normal people...."

Please just give up now. You can't seem to help yourself from saying really stupid things.

[markses]

38. They're not trying to "find stuff" on you

You are saying incredibly stupid things. Mind you, I don't think YOU are stupid, but some of the things you've said in this thread are just incredibly awful. I'm not involved here, and I'm not one of your "pre-existent" enemies, but you really are unable to keep your foot out of your mouth on this issue.

[Cheswick2.0]

81. ROFL......WTF <scratches head>

"...a show where there are gay ppl who can act like normal people ..."

[Mrs. Venation]

95. This People Who Is Angry With You Doesn't Fit Your Contention

Anyway most of the ppl angry now are ppl who's been angry at me for a long time I guess and just desperatly are trying to find stuff on me.

No, Kamika, this is the first time I've subjected myself to your homo-hating drivel. When you can say stuff like this, "Thats why I'm happy theres a show where there are gay ppl who can act like normal people" you are displaying your bigotry for all the world to see, or at least all of DU.

The fact is that "gay ppl" are normal people, and for you to make the statement you did just nauseates the crap out of me. You have a lot to learn about humanity and the role of its diversity. You also have a lot to learn about your blindness to your own bigotry, and to try to find a way to work through it. You aren't the first person, nor will you be the last, who thinks you are not a bigot when you are, in fact, a pretty blatant one.

I've lived with this crap all of my adult life. I'm 51 years old, a lesbian who's been out for almost 30 years, and a native of southern Appalachia. People listen to my accent and make assumptions about my level of intelligence, my level of sophistication, my familial relationships, and all manner of things. Usually their assumptions are ugly; they are bigoted and they are just wrong. Their assumptions, based on stereotypes, irritate the bloody hell out of me and I'll call them on their bigotry every time its ugly head arises.

It's the same with being gay. I'm going to expose the hateful ugly bigotry every time I have a chance to do so. If you can't see that the things you have said in this post are inflammatory, archaic and flat out sickening, you need to look deeply within yourself and find the cause of the ugliness. It won't go away on its own.

Mrs. Bertha Venation

[BigDaddyLove]

36. I think that the prevailing idea of what a 'fag' looks and acts.....

like in the minds of many a straight guy is Carson.

[markses]

41. Yeah, but the point is

That in the minds of some straight guys, that "act" is necessarily bad, while what Carson shows us is that there is nothing bad about that act.

Now, if we were really to get serious about it, we would show that the "straight guy" act is just as much a clone or performance or "stereotype as the Carson act. It just masquerades as the "norm," and so has become invisible AS AN ACT, or performance. or stereotype that people simply live as if it were their own.

[BigDaddyLove]

45. I cannot argue with this.............

"That in the minds of some straight guys, that "act" is necessarily bad, while what Carson shows us is that there is nothing bad about that act."

You are 100% correct.

[blondeatlast]

67. Well said.

I think it's remarkable that they show gay males and straight males getting along as BUDDIES. The straight guys go shopping, have facials and haircuts, and seem to enjoy it.

Blurring the lines, so to speak, and more's the better, IMHO.

[mitchtv]

4. as a gay male, I enjoy the show

to a certain extent- I am not like that( didn't get the whole gay package) , and I realize stereotypes are there , but they're cute, and these strait guys really need some help. My partner and I could use some help( except with the cooking). there we excell.

[BigDaddyLove]

6. I just think it's a refreshing harbor in an otherwise nonsensical....

tempest of modern television.

Most of my best friends have been gay men (best man at my wedding), and I've always enjoyed the life they inject into the world, so for me it's been a treat to watch........not to mention I actually LEARN things from the show.

[arwalden]

8. Absolutely Not...

-- Allen

[Faygo Kid]

9. No - au contraire, from a straight guy

The show is great. I identify with the straight guys who need help (must of us do), and the show gives us witty, warm, bright, often imperfect but always helpful gay guys who are entertaining and unpretentious. It's the social right's worst nightmare - humanizing gays instead of demonizing them. It's also just a great show. It's not demeaning at all, in fact just the opposite. And it will go a long way to breaking down barriers.

[BigDaddyLove]

13. Humanizing rather than demonizing gays..........

great point!!!!

[Faygo Kid]

62. Thanks. I am humbled.

Always appreciate a compliment, BigDaddyLove, and like to let people know I appreciate it.

[blondeatlast]

68. AAAAYYYYYYYYeffingMMMMEEEEEEEEENNNNNNNNNNN!

[Faygo Kid]

76. I am sorry. I do not speak Cardassian. Can you translate?

????? Or, as we used to say at the MSU dorm in 1974, another shot of tequila, my dear?

[blondeatlast]

80. Amen--to the tequila!

[Selwynn]

17. I hope not, cause I love that show...! :)

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

21. No because it doesn't operate from the presumption that it speaks

for all gays and offers a wide variety of insight into the varied positions of gay people demonstrating we are not a monolithic group.

[BigDaddyLove]

29. I agree, except that the show does portray the characters as.....

'creatives', in other words, none of the Fab 5 are bankers or lawyers, but rather interior designers and personal 'style' consultants. In that sense, I do think it sort of shows gays to be monolithic in a way.

[Dookus]

37. heheh...

great idea - next the queer accountants financial makeover :)

[BigDaddyLove]

39. I'm just saying....................

:)

[Mz Pip]

50. Yeah, but do you really

think a show called "5 Gay Guys Provide a Financial Makeover for a Straight Guy" would sell?

I suppose it does play on the stereotype of gays being artistic, creative, and fashion conscious, but I don't really see that as a negative stereotype unless you argue that all stereotypes are negative. I hadn't really thought about it in that way.

I love the show. These guys are terrific at what they do. I want them to make over my husband and my house. :-)

MzPip
:dem:

[blondeatlast]

70. OTOH, the "Straights" are generally pretty down to earth types, too.

No lawyers, doctors, bankers, etc. with them, either, which I like. As a straight woman, I don't go for white collar types.

[baldguy]

44. Of course its demeaning.

These All of these inane, unreal "reality" shows demean all of us.

[BigDaddyLove]

47. How so?

:shrug:

[baldguy]

64. Because they're stupid.

It's a staged drama, using false situations to manipulate not only the audience, but the players as well. The fact that they use real people as characters on their stage - and force them to act out a script with consequences that will effect the rest of their lives - is nothing if not perverse.

I don't want to see people at their worst moments, reduced to tears or incoherent rage simply because some programmer thinks that it will attract ratings.

That is not entertainment.

We might as well recreate the Flavian Amphitheater for the pleasure of the masses.

[Dookus]

66. Have you watched the show?

It's not a staged 'drama' like Survivor or Big Brother.

It's a really light-hearted, humorous show about transforming schlubs into studs. I've never seen anybody cry on it.

[blondeatlast]

71. On "Queer Eye?" Sheesh--I musta missed that episode . . .

[tokenlib]

53. I think it's a very positive show...

I find it humorous --becuse I just love some of the comments the five make when observing their subject. My wife likes it because they really seem to help improve their subjects life. They are five unique guys with hearts of gold. It is certainly not demeaning.

My only advice is that I think they should go on a field trip away from NYC and into the heartland of America--like a midwestern small town or something. It would be interesting .

[terrya]

59. This show is NOT demeaning to gays.

My god...when you stop and consider how gay men were portrayed in movies and television in the past...we were either "sick and mentally ill" (I remember an episode of "Marcus Welby, M.D" when a gay man was told by the good doctor to seek counselling for his homosexuality) OR we were murderous psychopaths (the obscene film "Crusing" is a perfect example of that hateful crap), we should be thanking our lucky stars for a show like "Queer Eye", that shows gay men as, well, human beings.

[corporatewhore]

65. while its not demeaning i would like it if tv moved beyond the typical....

uppermiddleclass white gay male and maybe show some variety and show how homosexuality plays in different cultures like for example i have a hard time with my dads ultra catholic latino family

[Deja Q]

69. It definitely plays on STEREOTYPES. Is THAT demeaning?

Yup.

'nuff said.

[corporatewhore]

73. the show it self is not meaningful its just a fluff show if

it ws anything more i probably would be offended probably the same way i get offended when i watch "ethnic" comedies and also pissed that tv doesnt show any poor minorities or women

[Ellen Forradalom]

72. The show plays around with stereotypes, both of straight and gay men

In less skillful hands, it could be cringingly awful. But everyone involved has fun with the stereotypes and in so doing, transcends them. The show is very well-cast with five intelligent, humorous men with good onscreen rapport and talent in each of their fields. Their subjects have all been interesting choices, too.

I wonder why the question isn't, "Is QEFTSG demeaning to heterosexuals?" After all, the show operates from the premise that straight men are colorblind, boorish slobs.

[mitchum]

74. No, but it is just a ruse to increase consumerism...

and has little to do with acceptance

[Ellen Forradalom]

75. Well, it does encourage acquiring things, no doubt about it

But spending loads of money without good judgment won't get you results.

Some of the things they do on that show are pretty silly (spray-on tans?) but some of the other changes are right on, particularly the hairstyles.

I don't care to invest the time and money to be as stylish as those folks, but I do respect the skill that goes into creating an aura of chic.

[Logansquare]

77. Not intentionally, but...

And i like the show, mind you. I would love to get a total makeover from those guys.

However, it presents five gay men who are non-sexual beings, and then fetishizes the sexual relationships of the straight makeover subjects--they all talk about how to make him more desirable to his woman, how to make the boudoir more sexy, etc.

It's somewhat like television shows and movies that have African-American characters who don't seem to have personal lives or possess any other concern than helping their white buddies achieve some goal. Eventually popular media has to stop being exclusively about the needs of white, straight people.

[terrya]

79. I'm wondering how many straight people would start to feel uncomfortable..

If the show began to focus on the sexual lives of the Fab Five. I think the 5 guys are very sexual, actually. But it's quite sublimated...the show, after all, is about the straight guy and his needs.

I'm struck by the amount of physical affection between the Fab 5 and the straight guy...hugs, arms draped around the straight guy, lots of touching, it seems. And the straight guy gets into it...for the most part (there was the one time when the Staten Island cop went with Kyan, the grooming expert, for a spray on tan session that involved both the straight guy and Kyan stripping down to a skimpy pair of briefs. The straight guy was uncomfortable during that)

I do thank you for your enlightened comments. Your comments illustrated, to me, the problem with "Will and Grace". The gay guys are not allowed to have sides that show physical affection between other men. Look at that show and notice how Will and Jack show their physical affection towards straight women...in this case, Grace and Karen.

[blondeatlast]

83. Some of the jokes, though, are pretty, well, how do I say it?

It makes me a tad uncomfortable (just like straight dirty jokes do) but I also find them amusing.

[Cannikin]

93. I agree...

I remember how I gasped at how Carson responded when a lady told him her sofa had come from Seamans!

[Hell Hath No Fury]

84. I agree!

"I think the 5 guys are very sexual, actually."

I see them as expressing their sexuality all the time on the show -- if "expresing your sexuality" can be more than screwing.

The guys are always flirting and affectionate with each other and the straight guys, lusting after the cuties -- good heavens, the guys were practically beside themselves with the John Bargman episode!

That too is sexuality, and they don't appear to be too shy about showing it.

[Piperay]

94. No, it's a just a cute show

but since I'm a straight female what do I know. :shrug: :-)

[Breezy du Nord]

96. Well,

I don't personally think a decorating show with a bunch of gay guys is that demeaning, but then I'm not gay. I never really like makeover shows anyway, but this one is more watchable because the guys are, demeaning or not, very witty.

[Moderator]

97. I'm locking this thread, before it gets more out of hand

While Moderators go through it