Not Only Anti-Gay, but also Anti-Catholic, Anti-Mason etc. etc

[beawr]

Ahhhhh, Jack Chick, we used to laugh at his tracts. I used to own some of his full color comic books featuring "The Crusaders" back when they were fighting the godless commies. There are so many things that these people detest. What ever happened to the whole "Be not of this world" thing?


Here's his Anti-Catholic tract.

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0082/0082_01.asp


And Here's his Anti-Mason tract:

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/5022/5022_01.asp



Enjoy

[KC21304]

1. No thank you.

[Rabrrrrrr]

2. He's against everything

I'm condemned from so many directions, it's amazing.

I was thinking about this earlier, since someone else posted a Chick Tract thread a few hours ago, but I bet if one went through his entire oeuvre and built up the list of everyone who's condemned to hell for eternity, there would be very few people left, if anyone.

I have a feeling he's done so much, that there actually aren't any people left who aren't condemned to hell.

he needs to edit himself more. :-)

(he also needs to read the Bible and find some compassion in his heart)

[beawr]

3. Yes, this was my point

Pretty much everyone is going to hell. This guy Chick must be only the Second perfect person to have walked the earth, since he is definitely tossing some stones...

[Rabrrrrrr]

4. LOL! Great way to put it

"definitely tossing some stones"


I like it!

[geniph]

44. That's Leviticus for ya

As a friend of mine, a seminary student put it, "part of the point of becoming Gentiles was that not all the rules of Leviticus had to be followed anymore, because if you followed them all to the letter, you'd be putting pretty much everyone to death." It seems as if Leviticus and Paul's Epistles and Revelations are the only books of the Bible most fundies ever read. They surely don't seem to study the Gospels.

I'm surprised he hasn't done a tract on the evils of wearing clothes made of two different fibers.

[beawr]

76. LOL

Not to mention polyester

[corporatewhore]

5. Anti Dungeons and Dragons too

[brainshrub]

6. If you like Chick, you'll love Cthulhu:

http://www.howardhallis.com/bis/cthulhuchick/

After I read this tract, I saw the darkness and dedicated my life to Cthulhu. I want to be eaten first!

[JasonDeter]

7. The tracts are correct.

You may not like the tone, I think they could be toned down myself but are accurate as far as what the Bible says.

[Rabrrrrrr]

8. pfagh...cough....splutter splutter splutter....cough cough cough

Are you . . . . sure about that? cough cough cough gassp choke choke

I sure never learned any of that stuff in seminary, and I concentrated in Biblical studies. I'd like to think I went to be a pretty academically honest and faithful seminary.

[Khephra]

9. Heck, he can't even get his Masonic stuff right

What can you say?

:shrug:

[Rabrrrrrr]

10. JasonDeter or Chick?

Not sure who you're referencing.

Hi Khephra! Haven't seen you in a while.

[Khephra]

13. Chick

I've been burned out and working. Not much going on to tell you the truth.

:hi: !

[JasonDeter]

16. Ok lets take it one at a time

1 A priest can't forgive sins or absolve anyone of their sins.

2 No one is good enough on their own to go to heaven.

3 There is no pergatory.

4 God does have a book of life and your name must be in it to be accepted into heaven.

5 Good works does not save you.

6 Hebrews 10.12 plainly says Christ's sacrifice was sufficient and final and not a continuing death.

7 Baptism doesn't save you and especially baptism as a baby, God honors only the Blood of Jesus.

8. Confessing your sins to the priest may make you feel better but only God can forgive sins.

The last part of the tract is pure self-aggrandizement. Do the tracts do any good? This is the first I heard of them. I wouldn't use them but that doesn't mean the gist of the tracts aren't true. Its unwise to condemn and disregard the message because you hate the messenger.

[solinvictus]

19. Another view.....

A Christian Speaks of Wicca and Witchcraft
by James Clement Taylor
------------------------------------------------------------------------


I am a Christian and not a Wiccan. A Christian is one
who has been baptized in the name of the Father, Son,
and Holy Spirit, and who has made a personal,
free-will decision to commit himself and all his or
her life to our Lord and God and Savior, Jesus Christ.
Both of these things are true of me. I am a member of
St. Mary's Eastern Orthodox Church, Calhan, Colorado.
In this paper, I am not speaking as agent for any
church, but I am, entirely on my own responsibility,
speaking the truth in love, as we Christians are
supposed to do.

A Situation of Strife and Shame:

There are many Christians today who believe that
anyone who is not a Christian is doomed to an eternity
of suffering in hell. Any decent person, believing
this, would be compelled to try to save as many people
from this fate as possible. But is this belief
correct? Jesus Christ, having noted the faith and
righteousness of a Roman centurion, a Pagan,
proclaimed:

"Assuredly I say to you, I have not found such great
faith, not even in Israel! And I say to you that many
will come from east and west, and sit down with
Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven.
But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into
outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of
teeth." (Matthew 8:10-12)

If we accept these words as true, and surely we
should, then it is clear that heaven will contain many
who are not Christians, and hell will contain many who
are! Clearly, throughout the Gospels, Jesus Christ
sets forth the criteria for entrance into the kingdom
of heaven, and those criteria include love, kindness, forgiveness, and
a refusal to judge others:

"For if you forgive men their trespasses, your
heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do
not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your
Father forgive your trespasses." (Matthew 6:14-15)

"For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged;
and with the same measure you use, it will be measured
back to you." (Matthew 7:2)

"But go and learn what this means: `I desire mercy and
not sacrifice.'" (Matthew 9:13)

"Therefore be merciful, just as your Father also is
merciful. Judge not, and you shall not be judged.
Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned. Forgive,
and you will be forgiven." (Luke 6:36-38)

Is it not clear? Anyone who fails in these things,
will calling himself a Christian save him? Anyone who
obeys God in these things, will being unbaptized
condemn him? Jesus said, "Not everyone who says to Me,
`Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but
he who does the will of My Father in heaven." (Matthew
7:21)

Yet it is not by good works that we earn our way into
heaven, because there is no way we can earn the free
gift of God's mercy and grace, which alone can save
us. But it is clear that it is not by faith, in the
sense of sharing the Christian faith, that we are
saved, either. The faith which saves us is not faith
in the goodness of our works, nor faith that we have
the right theology and/or belong to the right church.
Rather, it is faith in God, and in His mercy:

"So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who
runs, but of God who has mercy." (Romans 9:16)

But the Wiccans, you will say, do not have faith in
God. Yet by their own theology, they certainly do.
Those who call them Satan-worshippers are entirely
wrong. They do not worship Satan, or even believe that
Satan exists. Instead, they worship a Goddess and a
God whom they understand as manifestations of a higher
and unknown Deity.

Now if you are a Christian, this will sound familiar
to you, and it should. In the Bible we find the
following:

"Then Paul stood in the midst of the Areopagus and
said, `Men of Athens, I perceive that in all things
you are very religious; for as I was passing through
and considering the objects of your worship, I even
found an altar with this inscription: TO THE UNKNOWN
GOD. Therefore, The One whom you worship without
knowing, Him I proclaim to you" (Acts 17:22-23)

The Wiccans worship the Unknown God, as manifested to
them in the form of a Goddess and a God. Therefore,
our Bible tells us they worship the same God we do;
and if they do not know this, we should know it!

For those of us who are unable to simply stand on
God's Word, and must prove to themselves the truth of
what it proclaims the holy Apostle John has given us
the method for doing this. You have only to attend any
public Wiccan ceremony, and test the spirits which are
there, to see "whether they are of God" (1 John 4:1).
You will find that, while the power manifested there
may be less than what you have experienced as a
Christian, that power is clearly the power of God.

Dear brothers and sisters in Christ, these people of
Wicca have been terribly slandered by us. They have
lost jobs, and homes, and places of business because
we have assured others that they worship Satan, which
they do not. We have persecuted them, and God will
hold us accountable for this, you may be sure, for He
has said, "Assuredly I say to you, inasmuch as you did
it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did
it to Me." (Matthew 25:40)

Let us, from this point onward, repent of our misdeeds
and declare that henceforth we shall obey Christ our
God, and not judge others or condemn them, so that He
will not have to judge and condemn us for our sins.

[JasonDeter]

23. Well we'll just leave it there.

Everyone will have to stand before the Judgement Seat of God and give an account.

[Bertha Venation]

26. And what will you say, Jason

when you hear God say "well done" to someone in front of you -- someone you KNOW didn't believe in, say, the literal virgin birth and resurrection of Christ, or in the literal interpretation of the bible as the word of God?

Perhaps you'll be stuck in a corner w/ all the Baptists as they finish up the 3rd verses of the hymns.... ;)

[Rabrrrrrr]

32. Then let God do the judging

and show compassion and mercy here on Earth, for we all fall and sin and are all worthy of condemnation.

I, for one, prefer to trust in grace as God's over-riding motivation, and tend not to spend my time in delicious anticipation of God's final righteous vengeance of fire against those with whom I disagree.

But that's just me, putting more emphasis on Jesus' words and examples than on one specific, and minor, face of God as shown in the Old Testament.

[JasonDeter]

36. Just because someone says something, even if they're an organized religion

doesn't make ith true. All doctrinal errors occur because people based their beliefs on opinion rather than Biblical truths. But your right Jesus will sort it out in the end.

[Rabrrrrrr]

49. Iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii..... don't get your point

What does your post mean?

Whos' the someone you are talking about? What's the organized religion you're talking about?

maybe I'm being obtuse, and tired, but I truly don't understand why you said what you said, nor do I understand what it means. Please allow me some stupidity in asking. Thanks! :hi:

[JasonDeter]

54. Iiiiiiiiiiiiiiit's not my fault your tired. Read only after a good sleep.

I said:
Well we'll just leave it there.
Everyone will have to stand before the Judgement Seat of God and give an account.

You said:
Then let God do the judging
and show compassion and mercy here on Earth, for we all fall and sin and are all worthy of condemnation.
I, for one, prefer to trust in grace as God's over-riding motivation, and tend not to spend my time in delicious anticipation of God's final righteous vengeance of fire against those with whom I disagree.
But that's just me, putting more emphasis on Jesus' words and examples than on one specific, and minor, face of God as shown in the Old Testament.

I said:
Just because someone says something, even if they're an organized religion doesn't make ith true. All doctrinal errors occur because people based their beliefs on opinion rather than Biblical truths. But your right Jesus will sort it out in the end.

I further say: I guess you never read Revelations? And did you know Jesus spoke on hell more than anyone in the Bible?

[Rabrrrrrr]

55. Okay, I think I'm getting it now

So when you said Just because someone says something, even if they're an organized religion doesn't make it true, you aren't speaking of a specific person or religion, you speaking in general terms - that no person can have the truth, nor can any church have the truth. And that truth can be had only from the Bible?

At first,I thought you were attempting to single out a specific person (and I didn't know if you meant Chick, or me, or someone else in the thread, etc.) and religion (whether mine, Chick's, yours, Catholics, etc.). But it looks like you mean in general, in which I agree with you that no one has teh truth, and that therefore no person, or denomination, or even religion, should claim they have all truth.

In fact, I will agree with that 100%. We see where that kind of hubris leads - mass killings, terrorist attacks, and holy wars.

And I agree with you to a point that the Bible has truth - however, the Bible was also written by people (I blieve inspired by God, but dictated by God), and thus has errors, but more importantly, the Bible is ALWAYS interpreted - anyone who says they aren't interpreting the Bible is a liar, or delusional (perhaps lied to by their fundamentalist minister) (and of course, this is the big Christian right fallacy, that they won't admit they interpret Scripture - just like they also prefer to say that the Consittution says what it says and doesn't need interpretation - also a lie).

So, now I'm sidetracked.

Anyway - Bible is always interpreted, so even saying something is a Biblical Truth is shaky ground to stand on, especially when one attempts to nail a particular. There are grand truths - God is love, God forgives, God redeems, etc., that flow through the whole Bible. But when it comes down to specifics, this idea falls apart (such as the issue of homosexuality, women wearing pants, marriage, etc.).

And yes, I have read Revelation (please note it's singular, not plural, and I don't aim this critique just at you, but a lot of people here seem to think that John received many revelations and strung them together, but he received just the one long one, perhaps on an acid trip, I don't know). Read it a couple times, and have done some studies on it. Not sure why you bring it up, unless you felt that I implied that I don't think that God will be final judge. if I did imply that, sorry about it, I didn't mean to. Although since I said "Let God do the judging", I'm not sure where any confusion could have crept in.

If memory serves, I don't think anyone else other than Jesus really talked about hell. Paul probably mentioned it a few times.

[JasonDeter]

58. I'm going to kick this because I want to respond but don't have time now.

And I don't want to take a chance it leaving my ability to find it. I don't want to be argumentative but would just curious how you arive at your belief system. So if you don't mind, till later.

JD

[Rabrrrrrr]

61. Crap - meant to say inspired by God, but *NOT* dictated by God

I left out the not.

If you read my post, please make sure to insert that "not", otherwise it's kind of non-sensical in relation to the surrounding text.

Thank you for your time.

[JasonDeter]

63. The Bible is the most black and white statement created!!

Its only grey by those who don't believe its contents!! There are not many Saviors on the planet, there are not many ways to God on the planet! There is only One. How can you interpret Jesus saying, "I Am the Way, the Truth and the Life" any other way other than taking it literally and if you know greek having 'the' before Way, Truth and Life means those are 'definate articles' or Jesus did not say he was 'a' Way or 'a' Truth or 'a' Life but He was the Definate Article and you either accepted that or rejected it (and according to God to your peril).

As far as that other stuff, can you wear these clothes or can you dance or have long hair or divorce and remarry, it just proves Christians are human.

[Rabrrrrrr]

72. Yeah, okay

You claim that the Bible is absolutely black and white - the most black and white statement ever created.

And yet, you come right back with As far as that other stuff, can you wear these clothes or can you dance or have long hair or divorce and remarry, it just proves Christians are human.

Those are instances of interpreting the Bible - of interpreting what grace means, and how we live in grace. If the Bible only consisted of the words - "Jesus is The Way, the Truth, and the Life", you'd still have to interpret. You'd have to ask the questions, For Whom? When? How? How do respond to that news of grace? What's our proper form of thanksgiving? Does it mean a change in lifestyle, or do we keep going as we are? How do we determine what that "way" is? yada yada yada.


I *don't* think the Bible is black and white. I believe that Jesus is the Way - but that doesn't give me automatic access to all truth.

And that's not even talking about the other 150,000 words that are in the Bible. The Bible is full of contraditions, contrary advice, and ambiguous meanings. jesus' parables - quite ambiguous, unless you want to believe that all he was doing was telling his listeners about a man who had a vineyard, or held a feast, or had three slaves, or etc.

[Rabrrrrrr]

74. And furthermore,

don't know if you've ever done Biblical translation fro the greek or the hebrew, or any other kind of translation, but in ALL translation there IS interpretation.

There is no such thing as a "direct" and "straight" translation of anything, except perhaps single words, like "water" to "wasser" on a sign hanging over a water fountain.

Even as you listen to people speak, you are interpreting.

There is no communication whatsoever that doesn't involve interpretation on the part of the person who receives in communication.

[JasonDeter]

81. I believe that Jesus is the Way

Revelations speaks of 7 Churches and only one Church has the potential of being reprobate.

[Rabrrrrrr]

82. Huh???

That was 7 churches from almost 2,000 years ago. What does that have to do with anything I said? And did you mean to capitalize church each time? I ask that because usually when we say capital-C Church we mean "The Church Universal", Jesus' Church, as beyond any denomination, and small-c church could mean an individual church or a denomination (e.g., methodist, Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, etc.))

And I realize you believe that Jesus is the Way.

But you haven't answered anything, or responded to anything.

(lastly, only because I posted the first "Don't mean to pick a nit" thread on plurality, but it's Revelation, singular; Apokalypsis, not Apokalypses - that's also a really good thread to check out; many good comments from people on it, and also quite decent in tone throughout)

[JasonDeter]

85. Diversity doesn't mean contradiction or error or grey.

And those verses re: the 7 Churches have just as much revelence today as they did then. They can represent different levels of growth, different ages of Church history and what the Church is going to look like in the last days or a very personal message where you stand in relationship to Christ. And I capitalize because I have the highest respect for the Church of God in Christ. The origional thread was dumping on the accuracy of that fellows tracts. I agree with the facts of those tracts but not the tone, you don't. Does that matter in the scheme of eternity? No.

[youngred]

73. most black and white ever created?

no, there are plenty of inconsistancies and shades of grey in there. there is a lot of clear stuff, but it is also highly inaccurate in parts (a result of having been translated over several languages over several thousand years by dozens of different people)

[JasonDeter]

83. some examples? eom

[WillParkinson]

35. Not me!

Since there is no god I won't have to worry about it.

[regularguy]

41. Not me.

I have a note from my mom.
:hi:

[Terran]

57. Boy, are you in for a surprise. n/t

[dawn]

66. According to your point of view.

People from other religions will disagree. That's the beauty of diversity.

[Rabrrrrrr]

20. But you hardly touched on the Biblical accuracy of the tracts

What about celebrating halloween will send you to hell?

What about failing to tell your friends about Jesus will send you to hell?

What about failing to claim Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior in the manner that Jack Chick demands will send you to hell?

What about playing D&D will send you to hell?

What about beign Catholic will send you to hell?

What about disobeying your parents will send you to hell?

What about being a mason will send you to hell?

What about being gay will send you to hell?

What about doing drugs will send you to hell?

What about adultery will send you to hell?

What about being Jewish will send you to hell?

What about being a wiccan will send you to hell (you'll find that conected to Halloween, for whatever reason)?

What about being muslim will send you to hell?

What about not using the King James Version of the Bible will send you to hell?

What about believing in evolution will send you to hell?

What about committing suicide will send you to hell?


And that's just about the half of it. So, don't be saying that he's "Biblically Correct" because he isn't. He's a psychotic monster. Though, unlike Robertson and Falwell and others who are in it purely forthe money, I have to give Jack Chick credit - I think he's doing it purely from his sense of call, and not to swindle anyone, and I can appreicate that kind of dedication and honesty. But he's absolutely wrong in his approach, and in most of what he says.

(p.s. - to the list of things you posted, I agree with all of them; I am disagreeing with the fact that the things you listed do nothing to speak to the actual claims that Chick makes)

[Khephra]

27. I just read in a book on the Religious Right

That they're in a bit of a quandary over the King James Bible. It seems that there has been some shift in thought about the Good King. Proof has been coming out that he might have been gay, and fundamentalists (in general) believe that anything done by (or in the name of) a homosexual is corrupt.

[Rabrrrrrr]

33. Ha ha! That's awesome!

I haven't heard anything about that.

It would be nice if they get over their KJV worship; it's a beautiful text, but not accurately (though probably 95% accurate) translated, and there's no sense in continuing something that uses a language we don't use any more and has so many archaic words.

I don't understand the fascination, and sometimes almost worship, of the KJV.

[JasonDeter]

40. 15-1

What about celebrating halloween will send you to hell?
WRONG
What about failing to tell your friends about Jesus will send you to hell?
WRONG
What about failing to claim Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior in the manner that Jack Chick demands will send you to hell?
RIGHT
What about playing D&D will send you to hell?
WRONG
What about beign Catholic will send you to hell?
WRONG
What about disobeying your parents will send you to hell?
WRONG
What about being a mason will send you to hell?
WRONG
What about being gay will send you to hell?
WRONG
What about doing drugs will send you to hell?
WRONG
What about adultery will send you to hell?
WRONG
What about being Jewish will send you to hell?
WRONG
What about being a wiccan will send you to hell (you'll find that conected to Halloween, for whatever reason)?
WRONG
What about being muslim will send you to hell?
WRONG
What about not using the King James Version of the Bible will send you to hell?
WRONG
What about believing in evolution will send you to hell?
WRONG
What about committing suicide will send you to hell?
WRONG

[Rabrrrrrr]

56. So you're saying, then, that Chick does not speak Biblilcal truth

Contrary to your post 7 when you said that his tracts (plural) are correct and accurate as far as the Bible is concerned?

(Nice Harley, by the way)

[JasonDeter]

59. Well I lost the thread, but to answer your question

YOu stated a few things that if you do or believe or you are 'that will send you to hell.' I said no on 15 and yes on one. The reason I said no was because as you surely know only one thing will send you to hell and that is rejecting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior and accepting the propitiation He accomplished by His death on the Cross.

[Rabrrrrrr]

60. So you're saying, then, that Chick does not speak Biblilcal truth

Since he DOES equate all those with going to Hell

[JasonDeter]

65. I've read the two tracts posted

and I don't see where your gleaning your opinion they are anti Christian? Again you may not like his tone but his facts are correct. Show me again where you disagree with his facts?

[Rabrrrrrr]

89. I never said they are anti-Christian

I said they are unbiblical.

But - PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE actually read my, and others' posts, and answer the questions therein. Do you even follow the lines of thought in these sub-threads? In this sub-thread, we're talking about that long string of ideas I offered you earlier - which, I made quite obvious, are Jack Chicks, but which I realize now you think are mine. Please, actually read the whole text of the post, and meditate on it to understand what's being presented, and then what's being asked.

You said Chick's tracts were biblically true. I offered you a whole string of stuff (the post with "If you celebrate halloween you go to hell" type statements, of which this sub-thread is in direct lineage) to which you answered no to all of them but one. To me, this is ipso facto proof that you don't think he's biblically true.

And yet, like in the post to which I am responding right now, you can still say "his facts are correct".

:argh: it's getting so frustrating to get you to answer one simple question: what is it? Is he biblically true or isn't he? He can't be both. He could be a third option - sort of true, sort of not. That's fine. Go with whatever option you want.

Sheesh. it's like trying to get information from a 6 year old. Sorry if that's offensive, I don't mean it to be, but this has become awfully frustrating just trying to get you to answer one simple question and not constantly go off on weird tangents, or ignore the content entirely, like you did in your post to which this is a response.

[JasonDeter]

90. Do you believe there is a literal hell? If you do BIBLICALLY speaking

how does a person get sent there?

edited the question.

[Bertha Venation]

25. "hate the messenger"

I don't see any hatred of the messenger. I see abhorrence of the message. It's a bullsh!t message because the bible is not the literal word of God.

GAWD I am fed to the teeth with the overuse of the word "hatred" lately. DeLay used it AGAIN today, calling Kennedy's latest righteous blast of the Bush administration "hate speech."

[Kathy in Cambridge]

45. What religion are you? Just curious...

because there are many different versions of the Bible out there. And what YOUR denomination teaches you may not be the same as another Protestant denomination.

Bear that in mind when you bash Catholics...

[JasonDeter]

84. I have bashed no one! I am a BapticostleMethbitarian.

But go to a non-denominational Church.

[Duncan Grant]

11. You crack me up!

Gee, I didn't know that the Bible has anti-Catholic scripture! Guess I *can* learn something new everyday.

"...are accurate as far as what the Bible says." Bwahahahaha, that's a good one! Oh, please, (gasp for breath) stop. You're killing me here. :crazy: :evilgrin:

[JasonDeter]

18. Showing where the Catholic doctrine is wrong is not anti Catholic

Catholics are good people and God's children.

[Rabrrrrrr]

22. But read what Chick says - he doesn't say they're wrong -

he says the catholic church is of the devil, and catholics will go to hell because of it.

One can, indeed, show where catholics are wrong and not be anti-catholic, but Chick is, if he's against anything, against the Catholic Church. he's not pointing where they're wrong - he's pointing out that they are evil incarnate on earth and that every Catholic who doesn't leave the church is condemned to a life of eternal torment.

[JasonDeter]

86. I could never condemn any people to hell if they're still alive!!

As long as their heart is still beating Jesus is still knocking on the door. That being said some of the Catholic doctrines are not biblically based but man made tradition. Most Catholics I know are Christian and we have very little disaggreement. And most Christians I know would not hand out those tracts to those who say they are Christians. Do you believe Mormons are biblical in their teaching?

[Rabrrrrrr]

87. So, then, I'll ask again - do you still think that Chick is Biblical true?

You haven't really answered this yet.

I do not think Mormons are biblical in their teaching, for they have a second revelation - the book of Mormon. Nor are Mormons Christian, in my opinion. I don't think they're evil, or even dangerous or bad or anything (though I will say their doctrine, and especially the power structure and the power center of the Mormon Church is corrupt and pretty close to evil), but I don't think they are Christian. And, as I said, neither are they biblical.

I don't know of any church tradition to which one could not say "some of their doctrines are not biblically based, but are man made traditions".

But, again, this is also all about the issue of how we interpret the Bible. And because we'll never interpret the Bible correctly, I - like you - am not willing to condemn people to hell.

[JasonDeter]

91. Do I think he's saved? Yes.

Do I think the tract is accurate? Mostly yes. Do I think the Catholic Church as a whole is unsaved? No. I know and have come in contact with alot of Catholics and we have agreed on the main tenent of salvation; that without Jesus as your lawyer you are dead to God.

Nothing personal and I mean that but I was quite surprised your views on the Mormons.

[corporatewhore]

12. well if i believed the bible were true I say good because

Since i am a commie pinko queer woman/feminazinot to mention a liberal i am going to hell which means an eternity free of Pat Robertson Chick Jerry Fallwell Phyllis Schlaffly and all of their crazy minions

[JasonDeter]

17. I know you didn't mean it in a disparaging way.

Being a liberal is a good thing. Pat Robertson Chick Jerry Fallwell Phyllis Schlaffly are sick people who I suspect have a hidden sin in their lives, they are too hateful not to.

[Sapphocrat]

21. See you there, cp...

...along with Gandhi and Buddha! :hi:

[foreigncorrespondent]

14. Oh, Jason. You astound me.

Unbelievable!

[Bertha Venation]

24. Oh, baloney!

Pick one, Jason, and let's talk about whether that's what the bible actually says.

[JasonDeter]

42. I'll let you pick one, I've given many. . eom

[Bertha Venation]

62. Okay. Look at the tract called "The Choice."

In it Chick implies, by using a drawing of a child dumping a food bowl on its head, that original sin means a young child will go to hell. Is that biblical?

If you'd like to go on to other "biblically accurate" Chick tracts after you answer this question, I'm willing.

[JasonDeter]

68. You make it a forgone conclusion

but Children do not go to hell automatically. The sad thing is though from a biblical point of view alot of parents take their children to hell with them. Origional sin though is a biblical truth, the evidence of it the anger, wrath, murder, strife, deceit, adultry, malice and the like that overwhelms the earth all because Adam and Eve listened to satan and not minding God.

[Rabrrrrrr]

69. And you keep dodging the questions

You did it here, you did it to me - you defended Jack Chick as everything being Biblically true. Berha Venation and I have asked you about it, and every time you coem back with Dogma.

We're not asking you to defend Christianity - we want you to defend Chick. Bertha Venation did not say that children can go to hell - she rightly pointed out that JACK CHICK says that children go to hell.

If you can't defend Chick, that's fine, becuase I think it's pretty clear that he is NOT Biblical, but it's getting tiring asking you repeatedly to offer your defense of Jack Chick.

[Bertha Venation]

78. Rabrrrrrr, all I can say is . . .

. . . :shrug:

[JasonDeter]

88. How many times can I say it?

The tracts are basically biblically correct but his tone is wrong!! Again, I myself would not say anyone who is alive is going to hell because then I would be judging them, but I can't say just because his tone is wrong his basic facts are too! I'm not being argumenative, its just that I believe the Bible to be God's word and there are no errors in it. In context everything can be explained and God means what he says about His Son! Would I hand out that characters tracts? No. And considering the origional thread title just so you know, I have gay friends, in fact a husband and wife divorced, both are now gay. I discuss the Bible with them and in the end we are still friends, I think we have exausted this and hope we can stop now and stay friendly?

[Bertha Venation]

77. You win.

I ought to know better than to argue biblical interpretation -- let alone defense of the indefensible positions taken by Jack Chick -- with someone who thinks the bible is the inspired and inerrant word of God. (Or do I have you pegged wrong?)

[youngred]

71. hardly

they are not accurate to the bible, to science, to logic, to intelligence or society.

try again

[xcentrik]

15. Still...

it's hard not to have a sort of horrible, shameful admiration for the guy - he's been plugging along for so long, and his most fascinating tracts are almost like folk art created by denizens for the mentally impaired. I don't listen to Rush, Scarborough, O'Reilly, etc., but I can't resist picking up every Chick tract I can get my hands on.

[Kamika]

28. HAHA omg

That catholic one was incredible

I also read a catholic one once, it was even weirder.. It was how there was a pope dressed in Black in the vatican who REALLY ran things etc etc.. oh man.


Oh and he's anti alot more.. you can find anti jewish stuff there, and anti- muslim stuff (where he praises israel)

There's a great (great as in fun) comic there where this muslim gets converted to christianity by a tourist, who explains with "facts" how wrong islam is.

That one is just incredible.. the muslim guy goes on and on how "misled" and "misguided" he's been, an how he has been praying to a moon idol etc etc after talking to this (american ofcourse) tourist for like 10 mins

[Rabrrrrrr]

29. I love his waffling on the Jewish "problem"

On theone hand he blanketly condemns them to hell; on the other hand, he praises them, and says Christians should support them.

Guess who's the Zioist. That's right, Jack is.

[youngred]

75. not really an inconsistancy

They need the Jews and Israel for armageddon and the second coming, but their absolutism doesn't allow for jews to go to heaven too (because it challeneges thier only way to salvation is through how they say one must accept jeebus). So they say the Jews need a homeland and are gods people deserving of worldly support, but don't expect to see them in heaven

[Rabrrrrrr]

80. on the nose

That's what I was saying. They hate the Jews, but don't dare condemn yet, becuase they have to wait for Armageddon.

But what's so funny about Chick is the he DOES condemn the Jews.

But you'll never see the pro-Jew-Armageddon stuff in his Anti-Jew Jesus-Deniers-to-Hell tracts, and vice versa.

Hpocrite.

Though actually, in his defense, I can't really call him a hypocrite, because as you say, I don't think Chick sees any inconsistency in this at all; I think he's so psychologically unbalanced that he simply doesn't even understand what he's doing.

[Rabrrrrrr]

30. I duplicate posted, so I'll talk about Cthulhu

So let me just add that I wish he'd take Cthulhu worship seriously and come out with an anti-Cthulhu tract all blown out of proprotion and making parents believe that kids are actually into this stuff, and that the Necronomicon is actually a real book of real spells.

I'd like to see him blow a sphincter over that.

[Kamika]

31. Just who is Cthulhu

I get that he's some "god" of some sorts but nothing more then that

[Rabrrrrrr]

34. An elder God of evil who awaits the time to return and destroy everything

He was invented by horrow writer HP Lovecraft in the early 1900s, in that wonderful age of pulp fiction and great writing. Lovecraft invented a whole pantheon of elder gods and nasty creatures and wrote a boatload of stories around them, specifically about men, alone or in small groups, somehow connecting with the elder gods and going insane and lots of other psycholgocial stuff. Great writing.

Here's some info:

The best answer to this question is found in Lovecraft's tale "The Call of Cthulhu". Cthulhu is a monstrous entity who lies "dead but dreaming" in the city of R'lyeh, a place of non-Euclidean madness presently (and mercifully) sunken below the depths of the Pacific Ocean. Cthulhu appears in various monstrous and demonic forms in early myths of the human race. Racial memory preserves Him as humanity's most basic nightmare. Cthulhu is the high priest of the Great Old Ones, unnatural alien beings who ruled the Earth before humanity formed, worshipped as gods by some misguided people. It is said that They will return, causing worldwide insanity and mindless violence before finally displacing humanity forever.

http://www.cthulhu.org/cthulhu/index.html (this is a site about Cthulhu running for president; a modern-day having fun with the gods kind of thing).

I highly recommend the lovecraft books. You can start ehre:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0345350804/qid=1074176140/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/102-7014635-4806530?v=glance&s=books

[brainshrub]

46. Here's a bumper sticker for you:

[northzax]

37. the best part is that in his urge to condem

he actually compliments the Sendero Luminoso assholes. wait, were'nt they marxist?

and what kind of Pastor's wife calls people 'loser'?

and he doesn't paint a good picture of the "big guy" does he? "Lord Jesus is a jealous god"? makes him sound like an insecure cuckold. you gotta thing G-D's a little bigger than that, no?

[ronnykmarshall]

38. Hate monger !

Pure and simple.

[SPQR]

39. Did you notice in the anti-mason tract

the sound-effect of the machine guns? "Buddabuddabudda." Pretty subtle, no?

[foo_bar]

48. he hates Buck Rogers too?!

[Rabrrrrrr]

50. No, that was beedy beedy beedy, way to go, Buck

not buddabuddabudda

[MisterP]

51. and the abrupt segue from Shining Path to Freemasonry...

Chick: "It's connected!"
P: "It's filler!"

[Rabrrrrrr]

52. You're going to hell for not seeing the connection!

I bet you had lustful thoughts when you were a teenager, too, sinner!

[geniph]

43. We used to find this in the hymnals at Mass

the anti-Catholic ones. I always wondered if the Chickies were scared to go in a Catholic church to hide them. I hope some of them looked around and said, wow, it's kind of nice in here, not so beige as the rented storefront we have our 6-person church in.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

47. I have one of the best collections of Chick tracts in the US

I believe. I've been collecting them since they were banned from my church and local Christian bookstore about 20 years ago when I was a kid. I could probably make a bundle on ebay for all of them, but it's too much of a historic artifact for me to part with I think.

On edit: including a whole bunch of Spanish tracts from a storefront church on Mission Ave in San Francisco. I also have a complete collection of ... wait for it ... United States Federal Reserve Board Comic Books. Sort of Archie Betty and Veronica meet Ayn Rand. Unreal.

[DrWeird]

53. Boy! God's an asshole!

Good thing he doesn't really exist.

[RandomKoolzip]

64. No shit!

Damn, if that's the word of God, then God's a total dick! I'd rather worship a head of lettuce like those guys in that old Mork and Mindy episode.

Jack Chick....I ofetn find his li'l comics stuck in vending machines here in Nashville. There's people round here who think he's da bomb.

Good thing I'm an atheist and only have an eternity of dull silence awaiting me when I die.

[dawn]

67. Sounds like this guy Jack Chick already lives in hell.

Hell can certainly be a place here on Earth. I feel sorry for him and others who live in a state such as he does.

[youngred]

70. one of many.

my favourite is where he says that there is a grand vatican conspiracy that put both Hitler and Stalin in control of those nations and that the Pope takes orders from Satan to do it.

[Kamika]

79. Is that he one with the pope in black?

That's my favorite