Is it illegal for adults to have suggestive conversations with

[seaglass]

teens?

I'm going to be sick. My 14 yo daughter just relayed an IM conversation she had with a past teacher in which he told her about a dream he had about her. It was something about her pulling her pants down and showing him her thong. She also told me about a conversation this same teacher had with another girl that was worse.

Our conversation was very short as we were in the car on the way over to a friend's house. She asked me to promise not to tell anyone before she told me and I did ask her first if it was something illegal. I never actually promised and I obviously can't keep this to myself, this guy needs to be stopped. Right now she wants to handle it by speaking to the asst. principal at the school. I will let her do this as long as she understands that I will have a follow up conversation with the asst. principal.

I know there is a way of retrieving conversations on AIM plus, though I don't know if a person needs to save the conversation or if it's automatically done.

Does anyone here know?

Also, does anyone know if having this conversation is illegal or does there need to be some type of solicitation before anything can be done?

I asked her if she was sure it was actually the teacher and not some joker from school using his name and she said she was pretty sure it was him.

[MountainLaurel]

1. Not sure if illegal

But I think it's sure the hell immoral to raise anything like that with a 14-year-old. You, your daughter, and the other girl will be in my thoughts.

A tip though: Be sure to document everything about when your daughter and you go to the assistant principal, what each of you say, and the AP's response.

[Lars39]

2. I would take this to the police.

I wouldn't let her talk with the asst. principal, either; she's a minor and this is a serious situation that needs parental oversight. If this occured, that would possibly be giving the teacher time to cover some tracks if the asst. principal gave him a *heads up*. Not a good thing if the guy is actually a predator.

[seaglass]

10. I trust the Asst. principal implicitly. Unfortunately we already

had another incident at the school and he is/was on the right side.

But I would agree that this is not the best course of action. I'm really not sure of what to do.

[Heddi]

13. what you need to do

is call the police and ask them what you should do.

I have a feeling that what he did is EXTREMELY inappropriate for an adult. If pressed, it could be made into a "contributing to the delinquency of a minor" category--....

Someone in a position of authority at the school needs to be spoken to as well.

THis must be terribly complicated for you. I have all my best wishes going to you and your daughter.

Also, please comfort your daughter right now. She's probably confused and doesn't want to hurt her teacher friend, but knows what's going on isn't right. She's probably feeling torn about what's right and what's right, and to her, everything probably seems wrong right now.

Let her know that if this guy gets in trouble, it's not her fault. Be supportive of her and let her know that if she has to talk to you that she can do so at any hour of the day.

[HuckleB]

29. This isn't for a school official to decide. This is an abuse matter.

Call the local child abuse hotline and the police. They are the experts on handling these matters. It should not simply be handled by school officials, no matter how trustworthy you believe them to be.

[greatauntoftriplets]

30. Agreed.

Someone should trace the ISP of whoever is sending these messages. Hope Lives daughter is too young to be receiving this kind of garbage.

[Fleshdancer]

3. Damn I wish I had the answers to your questions.

Regardless of legality, he's a teacher and she's a student AND still a child. I understand you want the trust of your daughter, but this is too important not to call the authorities.

This man is telling your daughter he has fantasies of her taking her clothes off for him AND he has said worse things to atleast one other girl that you know of? This means there are several other conversations with other girls you don't know about yet.

GO TO THE POLICE! This man is a predator.

on edit: if it's this bad now, what happens if no one says anything? who has to get hurt before this man is caught???

[Iris]

4. Does this teacher teach at her school?

At any rate, something needs to be done. Even if someone is using his name this way as a joke, he and his boss need to know about it. And if it really is him, well, obviously he needs to be stopped.

[TrogL]

5. This is illegal

She is below the age of consent. The teacher was also fomerly in a position of authority over her.

Call the police now. I hate this shit.

[Heddi]

6. Okay this guy is a teacher

or past teacher, but I'm assuming that he's still a teacher, right?

And he's instant-messaging your 14 year old daughter (I think THAT in and of itself is creepy).

he tells your daughter about a suggestive dream where she shows him her thong.

Yes. That is inappropriate.

Is it illegal? It should be.

Is it possible that other things were discussed between himand your daughter that she's maybe afraid to tell you? More of a sexual nature?

At any rate, someone who feels it's appropriate to speak like this to a 14 year old has no business being a teacher.

I've had too many years experience dealing with habitual sexual predators. This is typical predatory behaviour.

In addition to talking to the vice principal, I'd also talk to the police. Seriously. THis is not appropriate behaviour for ANY adult, especially one who works in a capacity that puts them in close with children (teaching), that gives them the position of authority and trust that predators desire (teaching), and that gives them the position of "Mister So-N-So can do no wrong" that predators also desire (teaching).

Check his name on your local sex-offender registry while you're at it. Google "Sex Offender List" and you should get websites for your state, and others, to check.

[beawr]

7. If it isn't illegal

You could probably get it to be made illegal. Some DAs are having Detectives act as bait to lure these scumbags out and nail them.

[DuctapeFatwa]

8. It is safer for both children and adults to keep "real life" info private

What would concern me more is that she is identifying herself to ANYBODY on the Internet, regardless of the topic of conversation.

[Fleshdancer]

9. 14 year olds aren't famous for having the best judgement

Sure, it would be optimal for teens to not give their identity, but there is no excuse for an ex-teacher to behave this way. I don't care who the teen is or what info she gives.

[DuctapeFatwa]

12. Parents have to go with what they have the best chance of influencing

That is their own kids' behavior.

Just as kids learn at a young age not to "talk to strangers" or give personal info on the street, in today's world, it's good to stress the personal info part just as strongly on the internet.

Every kid is different, and unless a parent is SURE that their child is not going to give out ANY real life info to ANYBODY anytime, anywhere, for any reason, making internet time a family affair is a terrific choice - and a great way for busy families to spend time together.

The internet is a reality of modern life, and it has a lot of advantages for kids, but giving contact info is one area where you can't be too safe, too cautious, or ok, too paranoid.

Yes, the teacher's behavior was inappropriate and disturbing. But I would be more concerned about a child who is identifying herself to anyone, disturbing or not.

Parents have very little influence on what "other people" do, but they can have a big influence on their kids' views and habits regarding internet safety.

[seaglass]

11. She is not allowed to talk to anyone she doesn't know.

She really liked him as do all the kids at school. That's what's making me even sicker.

[DuctapeFatwa]

14. Well, you will flame me, but I think she would be safer talking to someone

she DIDN'T know, and who didn't know her, yes, about sex, than identifying herself to anybody.

As you will remember from your own youth, kids have curiosity about sex, and they will feed that curiosity one way or another.

Given the choice of face to face, or telephone interaction, anything where the child's location and identity are known, and completely anonymous chat, with the child sitting in her room typing to somebody in Singapore who has no idea who or where she is, I would go for door number 2.

[seaglass]

17. Yeah, well about now I don't want her to talk to anyone

whether she knows them or not.

I'm not going to flame you, I'm fairly distraught right about now,
I thought it would be safer for her to talk to people she knows and I thought it was a good rule. Obviously not.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HuckleB]

33. Yeah, I'm sure there are no sexual predators in Saudi Arabia.

What a bizarre thing to say, by the way.

[seventhson]

15. I work with abused children and this is abuse

it may NOT, however, be illegal.

I would bet that it would get him fired.

But it seems to me that he is clearly acting in a predatory manner and is close to the edge of criminal conduct.

You need to immediately discuss this with your daughter as this guy may very well be a predator. He sounds like one to me and he is clearly WAY over the limits of propriety with your daughter and the other girl. I think there IS a question as to the severity of his "crime" depending on his age (I have represented several girls around 14 who were involved with young men in their early twenties who would NOT reveal their names due to the obvious criminal consequences and who actually, as they got older, ended up in real relationships with these men which lasted for years and well into adulthood). BUT clearly this is totally improper for a teacher who has a higher duty of ethics and legal obligations than someone who has NO professional relationship with your daughter.

Your daughter obviousdly trusted you enough to confide in you and is seeking your adult intervention -- buit she does NOT want to betray her friend's trust nor the teacher's trust.

She must be made to undersdtand that he may be acting as a predator towards girls YOUNGER than she or who are less mature.

His actions MUST be brought to the attention of the school authorities immediately and you should explain why to your daughter first.

Please private dumail me and let me know how it turns out.

Your daughter will feel guilt and possibly even betrayal by you if you do not handle this carefully and you should try to get her to go along with everything you do while gently telling her that you MUST do this to protect other girls. You also should enlist any adult mentors or allies she has (other teachers or guidance counsellors, coaches, etc.) within the school because this may cause repercussions if this guy is well liked or is "paying attention" to other girtls whom he may be making feel "special".

This kind of predatory behavior in my opinion may have already led him to have sexually abused other girls (or he may be on the verge of it and your reporting may actually HELP him not to crimianlly offend).

You may also have to advise the police or child welfare authorities which will be unpleasant. But the school will need to determine if he has offended against other students and that will require publicly asking foilks about it.

Be VERY careful to insist at every step of the way that your privacy and confidentiality is respected and you CAN call your state Child Protection agency confidentially.

The school (which has liability potentially) may try to cover it up and so you and your daughter will need to be united, strong and determined to stick together through it all.

ALSO - you should probably ask the other girl about it and discuss it with her family if this is emotionally feasible (to make allies of her and her parents/guardians) and to be sure she is not exaggerating or fabricating.

#1 thing to do. YOU talk to your daughter and call the principal or school nurse or counsellor first thing in the morning or very soon.

This guy, if he is an active predator who knows no limits may ALREADY have plans to HURT/ABUSE a girl this weekend.

Remember too that this MAY be a fairly or relatively innocent flirtation. It MIGHT be a very poor judgment on his part and a momentary lapse. It MAY be someone ELSE using his name or computer or setting him up.

The police MIGHT want to engage him in an effort to get hm to "offend" and PROVE it is him and that her is inappropriate.

and finally, if you are in the position to consult an attorney or have a family one - then do so if it is convenient or you have a family lawyer or friend. In order to protect your privacy it might help.

If he IS a predator it would be wise to be sure one way or the other and the only ones who can do that is the local police or state police or prosecutor who have task forces for exactly this kind of thing in most states (you could ask your state legislator or local district attorney, ie prosecutor for advice as well).

The main thing is that you MUST report it asap and let the authorities do their job with as little intrusion on your privacy as possible.

Your daughter may resent it, but tell her to imagine if he was doiing this to eleven year olds or even 8 or 9 year olds. You must be sure and BETTER safe than sorry.

If he is NOT a predator and it was a serious lapse in judgment -- hopefully he will earn a valuable lesson.

If you do the right thing you should not worry or second guess yourself. What he did was terribly wrong and you MAY actually be helping him.

If he is an OLDER predator, you may be saving a girl's life or many girls' lives.

Good luck

and P:LEASE let me know how it turns out. If it is ANOTHER kid doing this, it would aslso help this guiy to protect his reputation and career. But you will never know unless you take action - and do it immediately.


On Edit: an attorney or DA MIGHT BE THE BEST WAY TO GO to report this as the school MAY INDEED tip him off or try to cover it up.

But you must be prepared to GIVE STATEMENTS to the police - as your daughter will need to do. That is why you may need to have your won lawyer to at least advise you.

If it were me - I would get a statement from my client and give it to the police and/or prosecutor as quickly as possible. Ask them if there is a sexual predator task force and BE PREPARED to have them take a look at her computer (this is going to be the most difficult part re: a breach of privacy and WHY a lawyer might be handy.

It MAY be simpler just to bring it directly to the superintendent or school board (and tell them you may go anonymously to the media if nothing is done).

[DuctapeFatwa]

18. Well the teacher's behavior is a whole nother show

Depending on the laws in your community, and what was actually said, he could have broken the law.

Whether he broke the law or not, it was unethical and in my opinion, immoral to discuss anything sexual with someone that he knew to be a minor child.

He may be a predator, he may be an idiot, or he may be an idiotic predator.

I agree with seventhson that you should talk to a lawyer.

You might also want to look into other school alternatives for your daughter. Keeping her out of school would not be productive, but she might not feel comfortable attending a shcool where this guy is employed, and you might not, either!

[populistmom]

16. This makes me so angry

I don't have any further advice other than what's been given, but my daughter is just a couple of years younger and the shear thought of some scumbag like this bothering her like this brings out the mother grizzly in me to say the least. I seriously hope something is done about this guy. :grr:

[teevee99]

19. teacher crossed the line and needs to go.

you're doing him a favor by saving him from doing worse.

[TexasMexican]

20. Yeah there should make a law against adults talking to teens.

Teens should also have no access to the internet, phones, TVs. Hell might aswell throw a burka over her head while you are at it.

I'm sure far worse conversations than that one take place both online and off.

There is definately a difference between talk and action. If the guy is harassing your daughter or they talk frequently thats one thing, but if its one random incident I wouldnt worry about it.

[Pale Blue Dot]

32. Do you have kids, TexasMexican?

nt

[ScholarSeeker]

22. It sounds illegal to me!!?!?!?!

I can't imagine the story you didn't tell that was worse than him having her pull down her pants to show him her thong.

Yikes! NOT appropriate for a teacher to be discussing with 14 year old students. Period.

[slinkerwink]

23. anyone can get a username and pretend to be a teacher

ask your daughter if she gave the teacher her ID.

[seaglass]

25. I know that, this is why it's not so cut and dry and I don't

want to falsely accuse someone of something they didn't do.

[Dogmudgeon]

24. Stay cool, keep your eyes open

Don't go in accusing.

Don't pitch a fit over the event at this point.

Find out what happened.

If it was somebody imitating him over AIM, it becomes even more serious, and then you really have to keep your cool. It is very easy to defame someone, anyone, over the internet, and it has been done half a thousand times already. And if it was an AIM hacker, any action against the teacher still won't stop the hacker from possibly cyberstalking your daughter.

But if it really was him, then ...

Find out if this teacher has "acted out" with kids before.

There may be nothing to it. (Unlikely based on what you said.)

It may be a misunderstanding. (But probably not.)

It may be the first time, and last time, he's screwed up. If it was a stupid mistake, it may be anomalous, in which case, he's not a community danger, even if he was an obnoxious nuisance to your daughter.

He may have a history of this, and should be called to account for it. He may be "salvagable". He may need treatment. He may deserve prison. In any of these cases, he shouldn't be around kids.

Believe me, I'm not trying to protect this guy, but I have a healthy fear of public outrage, and a healthier fear of identity hacking. Premature outrage often backfires, even sometimes when it is justified. If he's well-connected, if there's a "wall of silence" about child abuse, you may have a destructive (to you and your daughter) fight on your hands. And if you identify him incorrectly, you will then bear the burden.

As a far wiser man than me once said, "Don't fire until you see the whites of their eyes!" In your situation, this shouldn't take very much effort, but you must get those proverbial ducks in a row first.

(I'm just a cliché machine tonight!)

Coolness and discretion are always advisable. So is a conversation with a lawyer, even before you visit the cops. Get the facts and the law -- it's the best thing for you, for your daughter, for your community.

Evaluate.

Authenticate.

Educate.

Strike!

And good luck! I wish you and your daughter the best.

--bkl
Edited for typos...ARRGH!

[DuctapeFatwa]

26. Good point. I would print the logs out and go over them with your daughter

Look for anything he said that someone pretending to be him would not know, or speech patterns and vocabulary that look a little odd coming from an adult, even one stupid enough to say things like that to someone he KNOWS is not only a kid, but a kid in his school.

You will want to know as much as you can about who the person is before you do anything. Pedophiles are sneaky. That is the best argument for the possibility that it was not the teacher.

I would still suggest looking into school alternatives. Whoever it was, it was someone who either goes or is familiar with your child's school, and knows who she is.

Even if it turns out to be another kid, if he talks about it, it could put her in a very unpleasant situation.

[HuckleB]

27. It certainly should be reported to the local child abuse hotline.

This is a matter for professionals to handle. The school is in no position to take care of such a matter on its own. If it chose to do so, in fact, that would be highly inappropriate.

[seaglass]

28. Thank you all for responding, you've given me a lot of good

advice and I really appreciate it. You've helped me to calm down some.

I'm not doing anything further until I speak with my daughter, but most likely I will be going to the school first. I'm not worried about this being swept under the rug, we have friends in the police department.

There could be a lot of things going on here. The guy could be an asshole who stepped over the line and needs a wake-up call. It could be worse. It could be someone impersonating him. I don't know the answers to these questions. All I know is that what happened was totally inappropriate at the least and if it is him, I don't want him doing it again.

Thanks again.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

31. Talk with your daughter again...

This is sexual harrassment, and prohibited by law.
Reporting this incident to the appropriate authorities might save one or more of her friends from being victimized by this sexual predator.