How do gay people, minorities, immigrants STAND IT ???

[Skittles]

I mean, I'm in a constant state of OUTRAGE about the obscenity that is republican politics but more often than not I am NOT their target (although as a woman, sometimes I am). How do those of you who ARE their constant targets STAND IT? I'm sure I would LOSE MY MIND.
:o

[corporatewhore]

1. as a bisexual hispanic woman....

KARMA

[brainwashed_youth]

2. can I have some specific examples...

please. just so i can use them next time I have this talk with a conservative

[Skittles]

3. I.................ER...................

surely you are F***ING KIDDING.

[Misinformed01]

9. HAD to be.....

fucking kidding.

Please tell me this poster was joking.

[Kamika]

22. nah hes serious

Most republicans I know are as far from racist as you can be.. so clear examples would help

[Skittles]

25. all you have to do is open your eyes

to find some "examples". Unless you just don't care because, well, it's all about YOU.

[private_ryan]

34. aren't we stereotyping a bit here?

abotu 50% of the nation votes for them. I thought stereotypes were bad.

[Character Assassin]

37. Ah, the predictable, by-the-numbers faux outrage.

Unless you just don't care because, well, it's all about YOU.

When you're done dancing around the question, those specific examples would be great, thanks.

[Skittles]

39. *shudder*

you don't get it, do you? Do you see many OTHERS asking for EXAMPLES?????? They are not asking because THEY KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT. And notice my original post references REPUBLICAN POLITICS, NOT REPUBLICANS.

[Character Assassin]

48. Yeah, I get it. It's pretty simple.

The others don't ask, not because they KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, but for a different reason.

[Beetwasher]

56. You Want Examples? Ok

90,000 minorities purged from voter rolls in Florida
Constitutional ammendment banning gay marriage
Faith based initiatives
Opposition to affirmative action last year to coincide w/ MLK's b-day
Charles Pickering put on the Fed Bench this year to coincide w/ MLK's b-day
Should I list the racial make-up of the people being held in Gitmo, without charges and access to representation and lawyers or do you accept the reality that they are minorities and immigrants?
Should I remind you of Jose Padilla?

Should I continue, or is that enough for now? I could go on if you insist...

On Edit: BTW, that's just off the top of my head...

[Character Assassin]

58. Wow. That's really special.

90,000 minorities purged from voter rolls in Florida

Oh, I see. And regardless of whether this was a conscious act or not, it was de facto Republican policy. Sure.

Constitutional ammendment banning gay marriage

Bill Clinton, call your office.

Faith based initiatives

Meaningless. They've gone nowhere.

Opposition to affirmative action last year to coincide w/ MLK's b-day

This is something I agree with, and have often stated so.

Charles Pickering put on the Fed Bench this year to coincide w/ MLK's b-day

Yawn.

Should I list the racial make-up of the people being held in Gitmo, without charges and access to representation and lawyers or do you accept the reality that they are minorities and immigrants?


Well where were they taken into custody? HINT: it wasn't Japan or Finnland.

Should I remind you of Jose Padilla?

I am intimately familiar with the details of that reprehensible case. It does nothing, however, to support your Chicken Little histrionics.

Should I continue, or is that enough for now? I could go on if you insist...

On Edit: BTW, that's just off the top of my head...

Golly. I'm not impressed.

[foreigncorrespondent]

63. Ya know what?

I'm not one to defend Clinton. Especially after he signed DoMA, but DoMA still managed to leave the door open for the acceptance of gay marriage one day. What the repukes want to do is to place the queer community in the status of second class citizen. There is a big difference to DoMA and the amendment.

[burythehatchet]

64. PlEASE tell me you're joking

otherwise what the fuck coukd you possibly be doing here?

[JanMichael]

72. He isn't.

And you've got me, I've no clue as to why he's here.

Contrarians are unpredictable creatures?:shrug:

[Character Assassin]

74. Logic, reason and dispassionate analysis are our friends

And if you haven't noticed after almost 6,000 posts that I tend to resort to them over emotionalism, and exhort others to do the same, you haven't been paying very good attention.

[Skittles]

150. oh, I have paid attention

by IGNORING.

[camero]

68. Actually you don't need a political example

Matthew Shephard...ring a bell?

Or the African-American who got dragged by a pickup truck for MILES.
Can't remember his name sorry.

How do they stand it?

In my case it was being constantly harrassed and told I would never function in society because I had a hearing problem. Now I got diabetes, which is a deadly disease, but some schmuks have the gall to think it's just the common cold. There's two now, oops.

Should I be mad at nature, or you?

[Character Assassin]

73. You're stating that these are traceable derivatives of Republican politics

I hope not.

Matthew Shephard...ring a bell?

Sure, I know exactly who he was and what happens. I, however, and not foolish enough for the conceit that this is somehow, magically, a Republican act.

Or the African-American who got dragged by a pickup truck for MILES.
Can't remember his name sorry.

See above. Was the white guy, Ken Bimbo Tillery, who was murdered in the same town in a very similar manner by black perps somehow, magically, Republican?

How do they stand it?

None of them have anything to 'stand'. They're all dead.

In my case it was being constantly harrassed and told I would never function in society because I had a hearing problem. Now I got diabetes, which is a deadly disease, but some schmuks have the gall to think it's just the common cold. There's two now, oops.

Should I be mad at nature, or you?

You shouldn't be mad at all, and certainly not against some amor phous, non-specific 'threat' like Republican politics.

We all have certain limitations and/or handicaps we have to overcome. I've found that for me, the best way possible is to play the hand I'm dealth and never give up.

Your mileage may vary.

[Skittles]

78. Ugh, clearly you do not get it

Listen to a few hours of conservative talk radio and you'll have hundreds of examples. :puke:

[camero]

81. Discrimination and hate are LEARNED

It is not a natural emotion to hate others. It is natural to want to work together.

I keep telling my siblings that it is stupid to be prejudiced. Why don't we deny blonds work because they could be perceived to be stupid? Or WASPs becuase they are materialistic. A stereotype is a stereotype?

Oh, and since the SCOTUS says work is not a major life activity and the disabled are not "disabled" in the legal sense. What to do?

They don't have to hire you because you are "disabled" and SSI doesn't have to help you because you're not "disabled" in their sense of the word. So, you get hammered both ways.

Actually yes, I should be angry when someone questions my right to exist. I also should give them a face full of knuckles. But I don't

[Character Assassin]

82. Hate is most assuredly a natural emotion

Please cite for me one emotion that isn't 'natural'. I have yet to encounter a synthetic emotion in 36 years.

It is natural to want to work together.

Human history shows this to be not nearly as nice and neat as you seem to wish to portray it.

I keep telling my siblings that it is stupid to be prejudiced.

You are correct.

[camero]

85. Been reading too much Darwin have we?

Yes, human history has been a time of war. But there is also peace.
Why do people have a conscience? Why do we feel bad when we're angry?

Because when we hate, we go against what is natural.

Hate is like beer, it feels good initially, but it hurts like hell in the morning. lol

There are just as many examples in the animal kingdom of cooperation as there are of competition.

[Character Assassin]

86. While Darwin isn't necessary to get this; you miss my point entirely

Yes, human history has been a time of war. But there is also peace. Why do people have a conscience? Why do we feel bad when we're angry?

Because when we hate, we go against what is natural.

There are times of peace and war, cooperation and competition, hate and love, progress and regress, etc...

The point is that they are quite balanced, and to ascribe to love a status of 'natural' while declaring hate to be 'unnatural' is utterly unjustifiable. One cannot exist without the other.

Hate is like beer, it feels good initially, but it hurts like hell in the morning. lol

Um, sure. Whatever you say.

There are just as many examples in the animal kingdom of cooperation as there are of competition.

Precisely. Which is why divorcing oneself from the dualistic model of love and hate is the answer, as opposed to clinging to one and discounting the 'natural' nature of the other.

[camero]

87. So then it's ok to deny other people their rights?

Is that what you're saying? Since we need "balance"?

[Character Assassin]

88. What a ridiculous inference.

Where, precisely, do I indicate that it's OK to deny someone their rights, and what rights, precisely, are you indicating?

Further, I didn't state we 'need' balance; nature takes care of itself and provides it for us, whether we like or not.

[camero]

90. You said hate was natural

A form of hate is denying others the same rights you have. So in effect, hate is ok. Right?

[Character Assassin]

91. Oh, please. You need to think this through a little more

You said hate was natural.

Indeed.

A form of hate is denying others the same rights you have. So in effect, hate is ok. Right?

No.

Hate is a thing, an emotion. It is natural and inherent to humanity.

Denying someone their rights is an action; not a 'form of hate', but an action, in some cases a manifestation of the act of hate in its verbal form.

Hate is neither OK nor not OK. There are certain instances when expressing it are immoral and will get someone into trouble. This, however, does nothing in regards to relegating it to 'unnatural' status.

[DrWeird]

104. Well there was that one thread

about a racist restauranteur who wouldn't let minorities into his restaurant, and you defended him by saying, and this is a paraphrase, "why shouldn't the owner be able to not let in whoever he wants?"

[Character Assassin]

107. And I stand by that statement, although I fail to see the relevance

about a racist restauranteur who wouldn't let minorities into his restaurant, and you defended him by saying, and this is a paraphrase, "why shouldn't the owner be able to not let in whoever he wants?"

I wouldn't patronize such an establishment, owned by someone whose viewpoint stands in stark contrast to my own.

Would you?

[camero]

111. The SCOTUS interpretation of the ADA

Is a perfect example of right wing politics enabling discrimination.

[Character Assassin]

112. The fact that the ADA exists at all goes against my philosophy

Apart from making facilities at gov't offices/building accessible to those covered by the act, I oppose it, based on principle, completely.

The SCOTUS has a long history of profound ballsups.

This is one.

[camero]

113. What? That people with disabilities should have rights?

That goes against your philosophy? Which one is that? Theosophy?

[Character Assassin]

115. Of course they should have rights. Precisely the same as you and I

And I'll thank you not to assume positions for me that I do not maintain.

That goes against your philosophy? Which one is that? Theosophy?

Small 'L' libertarianism.

[camero]

117. Libertarianism and theosophy go hand in hand

I figured you were that.

So, let me get this straight. Nobody should have to hire someone they themselves are prejudiced against. Charity should be eliminated.

I'm sure we'll see how New Hampshire turns out with this.

The free market cures all. NOT.

[Character Assassin]

119. Assuming will get you into a lot of trouble

Libertarianism and theosophy go hand in hand

Not necessarily, and irrelevant to the topic at hand.

I figured you were that.

You figured what?

So, let me get this straight. Nobody should have to hire someone they themselves are prejudiced against.

Correct.

Charity should be eliminated.

Absolutely incorrect and seemingly pulled out of your FantasyLand hat.

I'm sure we'll see how New Hampshire turns out with this.

New Hampshire will not be some sort of referrendum on theosophy, libertarianism or charity.

The free market cures all. NOT.

No one here is arguing that, or making the mistake of trying to fit it into this discussion, other than you.

[camero]

126. Libertarianism is the utopian fantasyland

With lirbertarianism, the minorities are shut out of jobs, charity is overwhelmed and ceases to function, causing death and destruction.

That what you want huh?
Oh, but we can smoke pot and pay to get laid. Wonderful. :eyes:

yes, libertarianism is relevant to the topic at hand because it condones discrimination.

[Character Assassin]

127. I see that you are utterly unacquainted with libertarianism

Libertarianism is the Utopian fantasy land

No, but most peoples' understanding of the philosophy could be described as such.

With lirbertarianism, the minorities are shut out of jobs, charity is overwhelmed and ceases to function, causing death and destruction.

Please support your contentions.

That what you want huh?

I've asked you already to stop assuming positions for me that I don't subscribe to. If you are incapable of doing so, there is really nothing to discuss.

Oh, but we can smoke pot and pay to get laid. Wonderful. :eyes:

You can smoke pot and get laid now, in case you hadn't noticed, and this is irrelevant to the matter at hand.

yes, libertarianism is relevant to the topic at hand because it condones discrimination.

Yet another foolish misstatement in regards to libertarianism.

It allows for discrimination, but in no way either condones or condemns it. This should be patently obvious.

[camero]

130. Come to florida

You'll see Libertarianism firsthand.

[Character Assassin]

131. I'm not a Libertarian, thanks. I'm a libertarian.

And, no, there is no evidence that either is in effect in FL.

[camero]

132. Hmm?

School Vouchers?
No Income Tax?
Corporate Income Tax not enforced?
You call this not libertarianism.

[Character Assassin]

135. You are confusing two seperate things.

School Vouchers?
No Income Tax?
Corporate Income Tax not enforced?
You call this not libertarianism.

Libertarianism is the adherence to and/or membership in the Libertarian Party, whereas libertarianism is a philosophy, without regards to specific stances on specific issues.

[camero]

133. This is libertarian, thanks

http://world.std.com/~mhuben/onelesson.html

In the beginning, man dwelt in a state of Nature, until the serpent Government tempted man into Initial Coercion.
Government is the Great Satan. All Evil comes from Government, and all Good from the Market, according to the Ayatollah Rand.
We must worship the Horatio Alger fantasy that the meritorious few will just happen to have the lucky breaks that make them rich. Libertarians happen to be the meritorious few by ideological correctness. The rest can go hang.
Government cannot own things because only individuals can own things. Except for corporations, partnerships, joint ownership, marriage, and anything else we except but government.
Parrot these arguments, and you too will be a singular, creative, reasoning individualist.
Parents cannot choose a government for their children any more than they can choose language, residence, school, or religion.
Taxation is theft because we have a right to squat in the US and benefit from defense, infrastructure, police, courts, etc. without obligation.
Magic incantations can overturn society and bring about libertopia. Sovereign citizenry! The 16th Amendment is invalid! States rights!
Objectivist/Neo-Tech Advantage #69i : The true measure of fully integrated honesty is whether the sucker has opened his wallet. Thus sayeth the Profit Wallace. Zonpower Rules Nerdspace!
The great Zen riddle of libertarianism: minimal government is necessary and unnecessary. The answer is only to be found by individuals.

[Character Assassin]

136. Spare me the chumpchange, schoolyard rhetoric, thanks

Those 'arguments' have been shot down so often and so thoroughly as to have had their relevance (to say nothing of intellectual honesty) demolished long ago.

If you're actually interested in the philosophy of libertarianism, it is necessary to go beyond puerile, patronizing crap like 'Government is the Great Satan. All Evil comes from Government, and all Good from the Market, according to the Ayatollah Rand'.

Thinking is our friend.

[camero]

137. Aww, did i criticize your philosophy?

Geez :eyes:

The "Party of Oxymoron": "Individualists unite!"

[Character Assassin]

138. No, you didn't. You didn't even address it, really.

You posted a link to someone else attempting to, and poorly so.

[camero]

140. Chomsky will explain it.

Now, the Libertarian Party, is a *capitalist* party. It's in favor of what *I* would regard a *particular form* of authoritarian control. Namely, the kind that comes through private ownership and control, which is an *extremely* rigid system of domination -- people have to... people can survive, by renting themselves to it, and basically in no other way... I do disagree with them *very* sharply, and I think that they are not..understanding the *fundamental* doctrine, that you should be free from domination and control, including the control of the manager and the owner.
Noam Chomsky

[Character Assassin]

141. Explain what? Chomsky is addressing the Libertarians

And I am neither a member nor do I support their platform.

Perhaps it's my fault, but I would think by now that this would be crystal clear.

[camero]

142. Then what's this?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=653059&mesg_id=657027&page=

Small 'L' libertarianism.

You say that people should not have to hire others who they don't like but you say it is not discrimination. That is intellectually dishonest and an insult to DUer's intelligence.

You say you are libertarian then you say you do not support their platform. Which is also intellectually dishonest.

So explain yourself.

[Character Assassin]

143. It should be obvious to you.

You say that people should not have to hire others who they don't like but you say it is not discrimination.

Absolutely incorrect. I say that people should have that right, and that it is discrimination. Is it moral? No? Is it equitable? No. Is it even remotely advisable? No. But the right of free association is of greater concern to me than any individual's right to foist him/herself on an unwilling body of people.

That is intellectually dishonest and an insult to DUer's intelligence.

I suggest you reread what you're talking about. I am nothing if not intellectually honest and consistent.

You say you are libertarian then you say you do not support their platform. Which is also intellectually dishonest.

Again, you are confusing two different animals. I am a libertarian; there is no libertarian platform. Only the Libertarians have a platform, as they are a political party, and libertarians are not. There is not a shred of intellectual dishonesty in what I wrote or what I maintain.

So explain yourself.

I just did. Now educate yourself.

[camero]

144. You assume people are better than they are

Now how does your utopian world view play itself out?
If you are for discrimination then, then you are condoning immorality.

So if noone wants to hire them, where do they go.

It would help if you would educate yourself on your obvious contradictions.

[Character Assassin]

145. I assume nothing of the sort. You presume to tell me my own philosophy

Now how does your utopian world view play itself out?

I don't live in uptopia, friend, but in the US, circa 2004, where libertarian notions and practises are practically non-existent.

If you are for discrimination then, then you are condoning immorality.

Let's be absolutely clear on this one, critical issue: I am not for discrimination. I am for the right of others to discriminate. There is a universe of difference between the two.

So if noone wants to hire them, where do they go.

Hire who?

It would help if you would educate yourself on your obvious contradictions.

What would help is if you would actually think things through, or bother to ask, before so firmly stating conclusions that are so clearly inaccurate.

This isn't some pissing match; I and others of the same philosophy around these parts are more than happy to explain ourselves.

[camero]

146. Then do it.

because you have been rather vague about your philosophy. And please explain the difference between small l libertarianism and big L libertarianism. There is no difference.

I think you are only here to flame and I am enabling you, apparently.
So, these are my last words on the subject. Explain yourself instead of going into vague generalities and calling it "principle".

[Character Assassin]

148. If these are your last words on the subject

Then I leave you to your willful ignorance, and understand that you are either unwilling or incapable of understanding why the statement 'There is no difference' is so unfortunate in its error.

Good day.

[bobbieinok]

114. purging of 90,000 FL voters NOT a 'conscious act'?????????

They were told that the process being used was not very accurate - similarities in names, but no checks to see if person being dropped was actually the one who was 'supposed to be purged'.

But they did it any way.

Many more problems with this - company chosen, directions given, etc, etc, etc,.....

See Palast's book on FL 2000.

[Skittles]

120. there's an example, CA

a perfect definition of OBSCENE REPUBLICAN POLITICS. You might also want to read up on REDISTRICTING IN TEXAS. :puke:

[Character Assassin]

129. To say nothing of the Democratic redistricting of Texas several years ago

As to the removal of 90,000 people from the polls in FL: if this is, as you assert, an example of Republican politics, please explain why this didn't happen in every state in the union?

[Skittles]

149. Who says it didn't ?????????????????????????

No f***ing WAY can you compare Dem shenanigans with the fascist republicans. NO WAY.

[Uzybone]

30. How about the sheer coincidence ..

of nominating a bigoted judge to the federal bench on the day after MLKs birthday.

[Kamika]

32. chill out

You seem to think we're questioning it.. we just want examples to use in debates

[Skittles]

40. I would say PICKERING

is a FINE F***ING EXAMPLE of the result of REPUBLICAN POLITICS.

[Occulus]

76. here's a specific example for you

In 1994 my mom found out about my homosexuality. My father was out of town. She had asked me if I was gay a couple times prior to this, always with an attitude inherent in the tone of the question that left me knowing she would have punishments for me if I said yes.

I always told her no, and today I maintain that if one needs to ask if their parents are ready to know, then they most certainly are not ready. But that's neither here nor there.

I got home from work at about 8:30 in the evening; it was just starting to rain. I asked her how her day was, and she told me it wasn't very good and would I please wait for her in my bedroom while she used the toilet. I went in, and found all of my (soft-core) porn I'd deeply hidden at the bottom of the drawers under my bed, under a big pile of papers and such, laid out all over my bedroom floor like an accusation.

I lost my home that night. My own mother booted me out into the rain with nothing but a change of clothes, my oboe (I was a musician at the time), and my bike. I had the pleasure of not only losing literally everything I had, but of not being allowed to take my car into town to find a place to stay.

So I biked. In the dark, in the rain, down a country road where many people have been killed by their driving. I very nearly laid down in the street and waited to be killed by the next driver that happened along.

Once I did get into town (and I really don't remember much more about the journey than what I wrote above), I stayed at the home of a store manager where I- and my mom- both worked. He was kind enough to stay up with me all night long, drinking and talking. And believe me, I needed a drink, or a bottle.

The next day I went back to work, and then moved to where I live now. I didn't attend classes for about two weeks- hell, I barely left the bedroom of the apartment my friend here allowed me to use during that time. No family member ever bothered to find out or try to during that time whether I was even still alive.

My grades, predictably, fell. After a year, I moved in with another friend of mine, and after that year, I found myself homeless (please be aware, I'm leaving out a LOT for brevity's sake). My father helped me pack my posessions- one whole single room's worth- into a storage facility.

He knew I had nowhere to go. He knew I was homeless. He left me there.

Over the next couple weeks, I stayed in friends' dorm rooms (at considerable danger to their own dorm status, I might add... they could have lost their room, had I been discovered), under trees on campus, etc. It was, thankfully, the beginning of a semester, as I recall; I was able to drop most of my classes so I could concentrate on simply staying alive.

My GPA had dropped from 3.85 at high school graduation to, by this point, below a 2.5. I had almost failed Econ 101 and Phil 101; this caused my parents to threaten me with yanking out the half of my college they were paying for should I slip any further.

About this time, in desperation, I went back to live with the same people who had nearly destroyed me. Then, they finished the job. They told me my grades had fallen too far (without ever telling me exactly how far 'too far' was), and, so sorry, but they weren't going to waste their money any more. I asked if I could just retake the classes I had done badly in; they told me it was a waste of their money.

So, the dream I once had of being a simple high school band director turned into ashes and floated down into the dirt. I've never been back to school, and I'm just no longer interested in having anything at all to do with music.

Oh, one final thing. I was, according to my high school music instructors, the single best musician to have gone through the school system in their memory.

Did I mention my parents told me- after all this had happened- that they almost started me on the Suzuki Method for Violin at the age of five, but thought it would be too much for me to handle?

I marched drum corps in 1994 with the Madison Scouts. I was cut from the corps (first time ever spinning a flag, hey, at least I got in, right?) and sent packing; my parents didn't even have the common decency to come to Wisconsin and pick me up; they relied on the parents of a friend of mine who was also there to drive me back. My parents never saw us perform, and in fact refused to try to attend a show because they were just too damn busy. For an entire summer.

Yes, they both were/are ReThugs. Oh, and I hate my mom with a burning passion to this very day. I'll be glad when she's gone, because I won't be able to get on with my life until she's in the ground. And I don't plan on shedding a tear at her funeral; I may not even go.

I have a great deal of utter hatred for both of my parents, and let me tell you, having been adopted as well, I can truly say that I have been abandoned and rejected by literally everyone that has ever "supposed" to have loved me.

One last thing: I recently found out, after 28 years of life, that my adoption records are NOT sealed, as my parents had led me to believe the whole time. Both myself and my sister are adopted; my sister just recently discovered that her adopted mom tried to contact her when she was 14 (she's 24 now), and "beloved" adoptive mom hid that from her. Again, mom believed that my sister just wouldn't be able to handle it.

So, yes, I think I can give you an example of what hateful ReThugs are like. After all, I've been personally and professionally destroyed by them (and that before I was ever a 'professional' teacher). These two ReThugs made damn fucking sure my dreams barely even got off the ground. They gave me a taste, waved teh cake in my face, yanked it away, and proceeded to buy themselves a Lincoln Town Car.

And they paid cash. After pleading poverty.

[Bertha Venation]

98. PARENTAL HOMOPHOBIA. READ THE ABOVE POST.

eom

[The Zanti Regent]

122. Nice to see KKKristianity in action

My parents disowned me because I live with a black woman. Time and time again, they whipped out that stupid piece of shit Bible and quoted verses that support seperation of the races. They repeatedly called and screamed at my girlfriend and yes they always used the "N" word. They say I dishonor the white man by my actions. And, these are the kind of idiots who go several times of week to the Assemblies of God and flaunt thier love of Jesus.

You can take that Bi-bull and shove it!

[Bertha Venation]

125. Disgusting.

Sorry to hear of it.

[dawn]

139. OMG...I am so sorry

I can see why you feel the way you do about your mother. I feel sorry for her, too, to be filled with such hatred. I cannot believe someone would do that to their child!

:(

[Pobeka]

4. I'm sure they can't stand it at all. It's our job to get them to the poll

- next November. All we have to do is get out the vote. That's all.

If we can do that one thing, it will be a landslide for the "D"emocratic candidate.

[DuctapeFatwa]

20. Sadly, neither party has anything significant to offer minorities

or low income people in general, among which group minorities are dramatically over-represented.

As for gay people, with one or maybe two exceptions, all the candidates favor a two-tiered system of "equal protection," a second-class citizen status that is neither attractive to gay people nor constitution-friendly.

Both parties have made choices over the decades, we may assume that they made the choices they felt were in their best interests.

[burythehatchet]

66. DTF

you're a very insightful person

[Kanary]

118. Yes, nothing at all to offer.

I keep saying this and yet I keep hearing that all we have to do is get out the vote of the poor folks. For what? More of the same? They know the truth, and unless/until there is a massive change within the Dem party, they know it's not worth it.

Kanary

[Pobeka]

121. If you believe that, then you may as well vote for Bush

Sorry, I don't believe it. Not for a second. The question is, who would these folks be better off with? Bush & Co will literally kill the minorities if they can make a profit off of it. The Dems won't go that far, and they at least make token, and sometimes significant efforts for improving the lot of minorites. Bush won't even pay them lip service, in fact, Bush has made statements that he supports even more discrimination against minorities.

[DuctapeFatwa]

123. Yes, the possibility of a token gesture is indeed the best you can say

And I think most white mainstream voters would agree with you that ethnic minorities, the poor, and gay people should understand that the Democrats are going out on a limb to pay that lip service and make those token gestures, and those populations should be grateful.

[Pobeka]

124. I'm not saying it's the desired end, but a step in the right direction

We can at the very least have a more meaningful dialogue with the Dems -- virtually no chance of that with republicans.

I think we are agreeing on this, yes?

[DuctapeFatwa]

128. I think we can agree that many white voters feel some frustration

that marginalized populations have a different view over the timeline of that small step.

While it is easy to find white affluent voters who believe that the last few decades have seen some real twitches in the foot that they believe are indicative of some serious consideration of the step, it is becoming increasingly difficult to find low income minorities, gay people etc. whose appreciation of those twitches is what the affluent had expected.

There definitely has been change. What the past half century HAS seen is a marked decrease, almost to the point of extinction, of for example, African-Americans who accept the notion of "white supremacy," and a corresponding fall in the numbers of people in the Majority World who believe that western colonialism is a magnanimous gesture on the part of superior pinkish beings.

It is safe to say that the days of Roy Wilkins, and the submissive humble native bearer are gone, however fond the memory may be to the descendants of those who enjoyed them in the full flower of their bloom.

While the likelihood of a political solution is miniscule, if it exists at all, I will repeat for emphasis: both parties have made the choices that they believed to be in their best interests, as has western society as a whole, and the ruling sector must take its comfort in that, as it has commanded the "less fortunate" to take comfort in those foot twitches.

[burythehatchet]

65. Worry not dude..we're going to the polls

count on it

[Democrats unite]

5. It's called suicide...

Republicans we can fight, when it comes to familes & friends who won't accept you that when it hurts...Hence the title.

[Skittles]

7. "friends who don't accept you" are NOT FRIENDS

find REAL friends - they DO exist. Like ME! As for family - well, we don't get to pick those, do we. :o

[Democrats unite]

14. Thank you Skittles.

eom

[Kamika]

6. I'm not gay but I'm asian.. oh and a woman

I'm a minority but my parents are republicans(and immigrants) so I'm not sure..

There are some republicans who are really good people, especially christian ones, but I do know there are alot of racist ones aswell..

*shrug* I don't think you can just put a racist label on all republicans.. I'm sure there are democrats who don't like blacks or muslims etc aswell.

But honestly.. the core of the republican party are christians and christians (real ones) shouldn't be racist at all. So hence the core isn't racist.


Then we have the southern stereotypical confederate repubs... yeah I can't stand those.

To be perfectly honest the republican party isn't really racist.. it's more like.. "we welcome all colors aslong as you got money"

Oh and the few times someone said anything begative about me being asian I just laughed it off.

My uber freeper cousin would probably kill anyone who put me down just because I was asian, other freepers included


edit: oh yeah I'm a straight asian woman :p


edit2: to all you guys writing big posts flaming me why I wrote I wasn't gay, I wrote it cuz everyone else wrote they were gay.. see it's called a mild attempt at a joke

[Insider]

8. as a gay black woman

this too shall pass and what goes around comes around

those who came before me (gays/lesbians, blacks, women) had it so much worse.

[Skittles]

10. AMEN, Insider

I have read I KNOW WHY THE CAGED BIRD SINGS many times.

[jsw_81]

11. As a gay man

I just get very, very angry each day. I'm probably going to have a heart attack if this idiot gets re-elected (or elected, since he never won in the first place).

[TrogL]

12. We rage, rage, rage against the machine

[Richardo]

13. Hell, I'm a white straight married male and *I'm* outraged...

...and I'm NEVER their target. (Except as a decent human being who cares about the plight of some of his fellow citizens)

[mlawson]

15. It's really nothing new.

The homophobic shit really began in ernest with the anita bryant garbage in 1977, then Jerry Foulwell picked up on it. So, it's been at least 25 years of this. I guess one gets used to it, but we also know that very few people are really that hate-ful.

But throwing the bush criminals out in November will not stop the hate, so long as nazis like delay, santorum, and the baptist
'pastors' continue to say what they want.

[TrogL]

67. Tell that to the guy that keeps yelling at me from his balcony

we also know that very few people are really that hate-ful

Or the guy who spray painted a lesbian employee's car with swastikas.

[Pobeka]

16. We're all their target. Even they are their own target.

These people feed off of hate. And if they were to silence or eliminate all the minorities as we classify them today, these people would turn against their own ranks, and start weeding out the the purebloods from the mixed bloods even there so they could continue their psychopathic power trip.

This is a spiritual revolution, I believe. This is the evil our generation has to face. It's our turn to put it down once again.

[Rabrrrrrr]

21. You hit that on the nose

At least at the level of republican leadership, but perhaps even amongst the rank and file - lots of fear of the different and unknown, and if they were ever able to get rid of the bigger stuff they can rally together against (Gays, minorities, immigrants, hippies, peaceniks, non-Christians, etc.), they would then begin immediately drawing the lines of separation between themselves (northern vs. southern, born again Christians vs. everyone else, white vs. the few black republicans, etc.)

Yeah, they really can't deal with differences, espciially amongst the uber Christians who believe there is only one form of Christianity and that everyone else is doomed to hell. Hard to be on a team when aprt of your doctrine is that if you team-up with people who are going to hell, you will go to hell, too.

[jonoboy]

17. it's hard for a wasp like me to imagine being hated for being you

I've tried many times to imagine what being on the receiving end of negative attacks just for being 'different'..but hate is used by people isn't it..just another way to divide and conquer us.

[Skittles]

19. I felt the sting of anti-Americanism as a child in England

my dad was in US Air Force. I'll never forget the feeling of being picked on for something I could not and DID NOT WANT to change. Perhaps that is why I've always empathized with folks who feel that sting daily.

[Brewman_Jax]

27. Joshua Solomon wondered, too

He recreated John Howard Griffin's journey as a black man in the mid-50's. He wrote about it in his journey Black Like Me '94

http://www.mdcbowen.org/p2/rm/white/solomon.html

[Occulus]

77. read my post above n/t

[TexasMexican]

18. because I know I wont be a minority forever.

I'm not a minority in my part of the country, and in some 50 odd years I'll be part of the majority.

[Bundbuster]

23. There's a line from "The Color Purple"

"There's nothing you can do to me that you haven't already done to yourself."

I try to remember that, as the xenophobic neocons lay siege to all that's decent, knowing that there are no true "Get out of jail free" cards for these hate/fear/greedmongers. I believe that, even if there is no hereafter, the robertsons, cheneys, shrubs of the world pay a price on their own souls every time they fuel discrimination and suffering. This doesn't eliminate my outrage, but does tend to soften it some. I would not live the life of any of them for all the world's wealth, would you? Just look at the road map of evil written on their faces.

[Skittles]

24. you are right

I would not live their wretched lives; they are soul-less. I know we am better than that.

[Cleita]

26. I think women are their target all the time too.

Maybe they get used to it like we women do. We really shouldn't brush it off though.

[Skittles]

28. and the middle class, which also includes me (for now);

it's endless. Yes, we are all targets.

[Deja Q]

29. We just do

I get taunted. I cope. Have all my life and for any number of reasons.

I avoid Minneapolis because, while being gay friendly, it's filled with crooks who've tried to con me in the past. I've been lucky none of them had guns or made violent attempts... oh well.

I have no social life and I try to please my bosses at work, and I hide my homosexuality by being goofy. Even my cell phone's answephone is goofy. :D ...even though despite my seniority I'm low on the seniority list (goofy story which I might fight the union for if the time comes; even my supervisor has said I've done the same thing as my coworkers who've been there less than me... oh well.)

[corporatewhore]

31. there was a twilight zone episode in which a bigot

became a black man who was target of the kkk a jew in the holocaust etc etc sometimes i hope that people like sanotorum have real vivid dreams like this

[Piperay]

33. I've wondered about that too

they hate everyone that isn't like themselves but they take it out worse on the people who have the least power. As a WASP woman I am outraged and I hate it but most of the time it not directed right at me.

[Bertha Venation]

35. Because the meantime alternatives are not valid options.

What options have we? They're few: emigrate or commit suicide. Emigration undoubtedly works for many. Mrs. V. and I have decided against it, at least while Canada is cold (we wouldn't want to leave the continent).

In the meantime, one way of coping is to fight the motherfuckers with all the strength, courage and stamina we can muster.

Do you realize that it is not impossible for one person to make a difference, and that change starts small? An attorney* I worked for told me a few months ago that knowing me had made him drop all his prejudices toward gay people, and realize that what his party says about us is "misinformed propaganda based on fear." After that conversation we had more talks and became friends.

One year ago he may have advised Bush to push hard for the FMA. Today: not a chance. That I ever got to know him at all was kismet.

Every drop of water wears away the stone.

* (a member of the religious right, a legal confidant & longtime friend of Bush)

[Scottie72]

36. With out reading others responses

I have been asked that question before. It is something that is a part of my everyday life. It has become something that I have become acustomed to.

I have learned that I have to be able to choose my own battles. The every day stuff is just not worth my time or effort to let it bother me. I have to ask myself "Is it worth it to fight this?" Many times the answer is no.. u just move on. Maybe it's not the best answer.. maybe I should stand up each and everytime I see some injustice, but if I did, I would be so outraged and stressed out by the end of the day. I would probably suffer an early age heart attack.

I have come to accept that people are going to hate me just because I am gay (without even taking the time to get to know me). It is something I have learned to live with. Unfortunately I don't see anytime soon that I am not going to have to live with it. It is easier to change the laws than to change peoples hearts.

[Skittles]

38. well Scotty

you just nailed it - why I am so outraged and stressed all the time! (I'M SURE DUers HAVE NOTICED). I have never learned how to let injustices go. And to this day I don't know if that is good or bad.

[burythehatchet]

69. Skittles I can tell you its BAD

[foreigncorrespondent]

41. Skittles...

...I haven't read any of the other posts in this thread yet,so I don't know what others have said.

Anyway, my feeling is, we get used to the attacks from the right. While each attack hurts us, we are still used to these low lifes insulting our very existence. What hurts more than anything is when we see the same attacks from the left. They are the ones that cut really deep. And they are the ones I can't stand. That is when I end up losing it.

[Skittles]

42. I have seen misogyny and homophoia in the DU

and yes, it cuts much more deeply coming from the left.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

43. And unfortunately these attitudes are tolerated

and it definitely pisses me off more from people who should know better. A lot of liberals defend even defend hate speech as rebellion against "political correctness", instead of what it really is: rude, ignorant, ill-mannered behavior.

[foreigncorrespondent]

45. Yes it is tolerated...

...which is sad really.

They can see fault from the right, but when they say the exact same thing as the right, they don't see fault with it. :shrug:

[Bertha Venation]

53. damn right they are

I don't envy the Admins. But sometimes I feel that if a new freeper/disruptor logged on and displayed that attitude, s/he'd be tombstoned right quick -- while a DUer could get away with the same thing, write "JMHO," and all is well.

[Cannikin]

44. head over to the civil rights forums...I got picked on a bit today.

Circular logic, no-win arguments...the usual. Its amusing after a while. I was stressed too when I first joined. But DU has been like therapy. Giving me a place to vent my opinions and frustrations.

howdy Rose!:hi:

[foreigncorrespondent]

46. Yep...

...the ones from the left really do cut the deepest.

DU is great. Most of the people here will come in defence of a minority group. Some of the people here who never used to understand what tolerance and understanding was all about have no learned that valuable lesson. But unfortunately some will never learn that lesson.

[bloom]

51. I'm not sure how left everyone is around here...

but I think there have been some worthwhile discussions - where it SEEMS that some men have learned something about respecting women and vice versa and in regards to religious and sexual orientations as well.

Some people are open.

I appreciate the people who are diligent about trying to educate people as new people come into the group.

[foreigncorrespondent]

54. Of course...

...'sexual orientation' really means 'emotional orientation,' right?

[mitchtv]

47. did you see this one posted today?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=113&topic_id=5316 Typical puke politics, evil

[KG]

49. as a football-watching working-class white guy, i am a target too

whats amazing is that so many other football-watching working-class white guy can't see that they are targets too.

they still operate under the delusion that they are some how benefiting from repook policies. :shrug:

[Sapphocrat]

50. It's a lot like what my mom says about getting old...

What's the alternative?

I know that for the rest of my life, I'm going to be in a minority, and I'm going to be hated and debased, sometimes directly (which I prefer), but most times subtly, insiduously, passive-agreesively (which I deplore). There's nothing I can do to change that. Ever.

All I can do is point out the hate and hypocrisy where I see it, and refuse to curl up and die -- which is just what a lot of people would want me to do: Shut up, go away, kill myself.

I won't do that. I won't shut up, I won't go away, and I won't kill myself.

Maybe one in 50 times, what I say or write changes a mind, or at least makes someone stop to consider that they don't know everything in the whole damned world, and they certainly don't know a thing about my world, unless they've lived in it.

The rest of the time? If I can't reach someone through reason, or by taking the risk of opening myself up to let them see how much damage their indifference has done, at least I won't give them the satisfaction of silencing me. I will, as one contemporary author put it, stick like a pufferfish in their throats.

That's not the liberal attitude, nor the pacifistic attitude, on which I pride myself. But we're all human, and we all have a breaking point. And sometimes the only satisfaction you can get is being a pufferfish. If nothing else, you die knowing you did your best.

Sometimes you do lose your mind. Sometimes you really, really want to just open a vein and be done with it. But that's exactly what they wish you would do.

So you keep fighting.

And, Skittles, I've been meaning to say this for a long time, and since you've given me the perfect opening:

THANK YOU. I've seen you, heard you, noticed you, repeatedly, for a very long time, and I can't begin to describe my admiration for your sense of justice, and your unquestioning willingness to go to the mat for the underdog. You don't have to do it, but you do, just because it's the right thing. And you do it forcefully and fearlessly.

Nor can I describe the swell of gratitude I feel for people like you in the world.

Don't ever let them intimidate you. I know I speak for more than myself when I say you don't even know how much you are appreciated. It's just that some of us, like me, keep missing the opportunity to tell you that.

[foreigncorrespondent]

52. I second that!

You are greatly appreciated, Skittles, and all the Skittles in the world.

[camero]

55. We need more Skittles in the World

Then it would be a much better place.

[Skittles]

59. Y'ALL ARE VERY SWEET

I strike like a SCORPION at injustice. Sometimes I think it was my lot in life to LIVE IN NORTH TEXAS AND TORMENT CONSERVATIVES. I've HAD it with them blaming all their problems on gays and immigrants and welfare mothers, etc. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA - THESE PEOPLE ARE NOT CAUSING YOUR PROBLEMS, FOLKS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[camero]

71. I just hope you don't live in Dumbass, TX

Oops, I mean Dumas. :)

[Skittles]

79. lol

I am right on top of Dallas. :o

[arwalden]

57. And People Wonder Why I'm "Always" In Such A Foul Mood

And my father wonders why I never call.

At times I've become accustomed to being their verbal target. I think I can handle the ridicule and name calling and jokes.

It's when queers become the LEGAL target... when they start trying to LEGISLATE bigotry or when they start trying to relegate us into being second-class citizens. When they make it LEGAL to fire someone from their job or when the take away a mother's baby because she's a lesbian.

Then there are the folks who want to make queers a LITERAL target. Say his name with me: Matthew Sheppard. Don't get me started on that. My blood pressure will pop vessels in my eyeballs and I'll not be able to get to sleep.

Sometimes it does feel like I could lose my mind... but it's better than it was 50 years ago. And even if I don't see gay marriages legalized in my lifetime... a future generation of Queers will look back at this "turn-of-the-century" generation in the same way we now look back and show how much we appreciate our Stonewall brothers and sisters.

-- Allen

[Skittles]

60. WE NEED TO KICK SOME SERIOUS ASS, ALLEN

SERIOUSLY.

[IronLionZion]

61. As an Indian

I really don't tolerate racism but it's not necessarily a Republican problem although there are a serious number of racist Republicans there are also racist Democrats.

I love how Democrats do go to bat for minorities, gays, and women but the old class and wealth stuff goes into play too. Wealthy Indians tend to be Republican, live in gated communities, and support corporate bullshit. Poor and middle class Indians tend to be Democrat because they benefit from some of the social programs and certainly want their families to immigrate here. It's easy for a rich Indian to come here but wicked hard for a poor one.

[burythehatchet]

70. It goes to show you that

the bond that ties these bastards is money.

[IronLionZion]

62. white, straight, Christian males are also targets

whether you realize it or not. The Cheney wing of the Republican party is taking your jobs away, and your healthcare, your kids' education. They send your sons to die and take their away military benefits. If you don't think this radical regime is targetting you then wow, open your unemployed eyes! Do you fear losing your job? Hey, competition is healthy but so is job security!

[Skittles]

80. oh yes, indeed you are

however, you are not the constant, chronic SCAPEGOAT targets, ya know? Contrary to what Character Assassin believes, I only have to listen ten minutes of conservative radio here in Texas to hear putdowns of gays, immigrants, welfare mothers, etc. It's sickening.

[terrya]

75. The Federal Marriage Amendment is a perfect example of my anger

Here we are, on the brink of adding an amendment to the United States Constitution, codifying hatred itself...and I fucking can't stand it.

The opponents of gay marriage hate homosexuals. That's it. The opposition to gay marriage in a nutshell. They throw out shit like "gay marriage would threaten marriage itself" and "we must preserve the sancitity of marriage". But no one pins them down on this kind of shit. There's NO logic to this.

Homophobia and blind hatred is the reason for the FMA (and don't tell me the FMA doesn't stand a chance. This is real, folks). The President of the United States and the Vice President says they could support this. The entire Republican party supports this...hell, quite a few Democrats as well.

GLBT people are on the verge of having the rights they DESERVE (anti-discrimination laws initiated through the decades) erased if the FMA passed. There are more than a few people who are perfectly willing to see GLBT people as second class citizens in their own country. And that kind of shit makes me so fucking mad I sometimes want to buy a gun and start taking people out. Seriously.

Terry

[mitchum]

83. If you're a minority, immigrant or gay who benefits economically...

from republican policies, why would you outraged?
I'm a hetero, male WASP and republican policies don't put a fucking penny in my individual pocket.

[Bertha Venation]

84. I don't follow your logic.

Why, if straight white men don't benefit from Republican policies, does that mean any minority would? Clearly I don't follow. Could you elaborate, please?

Mitchum, it's not about economic advantage or benefit. It's about civil rights. I'm fortunate to be a couple of steps above working poor, but I honestly don't give a shit about having wealth. I have what I need but for one thing, and money can't buy it.

Oops -- wait -- money can buy it. A marriage license. If you're straight.

[mitchum]

89. My logic does recognize the fact that Log Cabin republicans, Hispanic...

conservative judges, Clarence Thomas, etc... certainly do exist. Apparently the desire for wealth can certainly override group identity. Just because the majority of the over class is comprised of HMWASPs (God, how is that for an unwieldy acronym?), it does not mean that the actual majority of HMWASPs receive any true advantage due to republican policies.
I know what you are saying (and I agree with you), but it really is all about economic advantage or benefit.

[Bertha Venation]

93. not trying to pick a fight

Mitchum, you can't agree with me then say "it really is all about economic advantage or benefit," because I say it is not. Not for everyone, and certainly not for me.

I don't demand a marriage license because of the economic benefits of the document. I demand it because I need it to protect our rights as a couple.

[Kamika]

94. It certainly is NOT

What will money do for the rich hispanic doctor when the country club only accepts white?

[mitchum]

97. Well hell, how can I argue with the denial of the basic human need...

for 18 holes and drinks on the patio?

[Kamika]

92. Economy isn't everything dude

It's alot but it aint everything.


By your logic I should be happy as hell that my dad can lower the wages for ppl in our restaurant now(which he isn't doing) since they are more desperate to keep their jobs thanks to Bush economics

[mitchum]

95. Your father is to be commended on his decency, dudette...

but economics is everything. It is the engine that actually drives all oppression. Read Hannah Arendt's "Organized Guilt and Universal Responsibility" for an excellent analysis of how people are willing to sacrifice honor and human dignity in order to gain material benefits/security.

[Bertha Venation]

96. I begin to see your point a bit more clearly. Question:

What do you imagine are the economic motives behind the FMA?

[mitchum]

99. It's raw meat to the deluded bigots who support the republican party...

even though there is no material advantage in their doing so.

[Bertha Venation]

101. And the effects on civil rights will be astounding

if it passes. Rank & file conservatives don't care that they're being pandered to in exchange for their donations. All they care about is "protecting marriage" by barring mine, and <sarcasm> so what if civil rights are violated (which they aren't) -- we're talking about the Bible, not the Constitution! What's really important here? </sarcasm>

IMO, in the final analysis this motive behind the FMA doesn't matter. The result, if it passes, will transcend any question of economics.

[mitchum]

103. The result WILL transcend any question of economics...

but that is a component of their venality. Thay are all too willing to deny civil rights in order to achieve their economic ends. That is why we all must fight them with every fiber of our being.

[Bertha Venation]

110. indeed

thanks for the exchange. :toast:

[private_ryan]

134. no but

if business goes down enough, he may have to fire people.....unless he has a cash reserve and he's willing to tap into.

[Cleita]

100. I guess you haven't figured out that the only pockets Republicans

fill are their own. Republican policies do nothing for minority, immigrant or gays, or anyone else for that matter, children, working mothers or senior citizens.

[mitchum]

102. HUH???

I would think that it is pretty appparent in my post that I am well aware that they are only interested in filling their own pockets. But that does not mean that venal greed only comes in one gender, ethnicity, or sexual orientation. You know, they do need some window dressing and fellow travelers. Unfortunately, there are some from the under class who are all too willing to betray their fellows and "work in the house"

[foreigncorrespondent]

105. But what is economic gain...

...if we can't live freely to enjoy it?

[mitchum]

106. Hell if I know. Ask Andrew Sullivan and Log Cabin Republicans

Maybe they're counting on opulent and ornate closets?

[foreigncorrespondent]

108. Ya know...

...I wrote to that jerk off Andrew Sullivan about four of five months back. I was polite to him and explained that I am a lesbian who is very left of center on the political scale, and I never attacked him.

I asked him why a person of minority would support a group of people that are dead set against that minority persons very own rights. I never got an answer from him.

I am very angry with the log cabin republicans. I simply do not understand why they want to support that bunch of losers for.

Money isn't everything to me. Money would help me to see my partner a lot more often, but it isn't the begin all, end all of my life. I wouldn't sell my soul to support anyone that was against me, and that is all these minority idiots have done, that support the repukes. They have sold their souls.

[mitchum]

109. Money isn't everything to you because you are a far better person...

than Sullivan and his ilk. You are right they have SOLD their souls

[MSchreader]

116. A solid political perspective certainly helps

So does keeping my rifles clean. :evilgrin:

Martin

[Mrs. Venation]

147. When I See An Act Of Bigotry I Do Everything I Can To Expose It

Some people have no shame, and exposing them as bigots does not change their behavior. Exposure can be helpful, though, because it helps others to see the ugliness for exactly what it is. I take people to task for their bigotry, and I demand an explanation for their opinion. It doesn't matter to me to whom the bigotry is directed; it's all equally ugly, all equally destructive, all equally worthy of our disgust.

I do not tolerate racist, homophobic, misogynistic, or ethnic jokes. If someone attempts to tell me one, I stop them. I make certain they undertand why I stopped them.

I confront my own prejudices, and I deal with them. I think we all have them; we are taught to have them since birth. We don't however, have to carry the burden of prejudice around with us like a sack of rocks. We can drop it, disperse it, and leave it behind.

Finally, I try to live life by the golden rule. It works for me.