Mentally challenged 8-year old boy kills one baby, injures another...

[Archae]

What can you do with a kid like this?

Baby Dies After Being Dropped Or Thrown
Brother Accused In Incident With Twin Sisters

NORTH RICHLAND HILLS, Texas -- Authorities in Texas said they can't charge a boy who either dropped or threw his infant twin sisters down some stairs, killing one of them. The autistic boy is only 8 years old.

His 9-month-old sister died of head and brain injuries Monday night. Her twin was treated at a hospital and is expected to be OK.

Police said the boy took his sisters from a bedroom about 4:40 a.m. Monday. The parents discovered the injuries when they heard one baby crying. They found one child at the bottom of the stairs and the other in the kitchen, police said.

Authorities in a Fort Worth suburb said the boy has a "diminished mental capacity" and is too young to be detained or charged. A Texas police investigator said a child must be at least 10 years old to be in the juvenile court system. He said authorities don't know the boy's motive.

http://www.themilwaukeechannel.com/news/13501345/detail.html

[Blue Diadem]

1. That's so sad.

My heart breaks for those little twin girls. I hope the surviving twin will be OK.

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Midlodemocrat]

3. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa.

Do you know that there is a waiting list for people who wish to adopt children with Down Syndrome? My friend's little one has Down Syndrome. They knew it before she was born. A more perfect child doesn't exist.

[SKKY]

48. I don't know what was said in the post you're replying to...

...but I'm sure it was highly offensive. You know my feelings on topics like this.

[Debi]

7. Oh, geez, and what should a person do if their fetus is damaged?

please don't tell me you think I made the wrong choice by giving birth to this 'imperfect' child.



This was taken at his high school graduation party - behind him are photographs and mementos of all his accomplishments. I'm incredibly proud of my 'damaged' fetus who became a wonderfully successful young man.

[Midlodemocrat]

8. He sure doesn't look damaged to me. He looks successful and happy.

He's one good looking kid, Debi. :thumbsup:

[Debi]

9. Why thank you Midlo, he is awesome (even when he's a PITA!)

I wouldn't trade him in for a 'perfect' child - ever!

[xmas74]

20. He did good!

He looks so proud in front of his pics.

I won't even address the argument that someone offered upthread. I've worked with the mentally challenged for many years and I have family that fall into that "category".

[Debi]

21. Thank you. He worked so very hard to participate in school

(full inclusion as much as possible...what a struggle!) and in extra curricular activities - Speech (receiving Division I at state in 2006) and Drama - Conflict Managers (a peer counseling group) and Harmony (a group dedicated to inclusion of all students and elimination of any discrimination). He was a busy guy!

[bicentennial_baby]

23. Damn, you raised a great kid!

Go you, and him! :hug:

[Debi]

24. I wasn't alone

Mr. Debi came along when my son was seven and adopted him - And has been a GREAT DAD!!

I have to give huge cheers to the Cedar Falls School District and the State of Iowa. Pretty great place to live when raising a child with both physical and mental disabilities. (Yeah Tom Harkin and the ADA!!)

Really, he has a good group of friends and mentors that decided somewhere along the way that this kid wouldn't fall through the cracks. Lucky - lucky - lucky him!

:hug: thanks, though, I like the guy - at least I did 'til he refused to watch Top Chef w/me last night....something about his new lap top and a place called Facebook....:scared: What have I gotten myself into????

[bicentennial_baby]

25. Wouldn't watch TopChef?!

:o

He sounds like a very normal teenager to me! :rofl:

:hug:

[Debi]

33. Proves right there he has a mental disability!!!

:wow:

[bicentennial_baby]

35. Heehee...

:spank:

[Debi]

38. I think Facebook causes it....

:shrug:

[bicentennial_baby]

42. Is he on MySpace too? That could be the cause...

:rofl:

[Debi]

52. Isn't that where all the people go

looking for sex partners??? :P

[havocmom]

57. Give Mr. Debi a special Father's Day hug from some DU admirers of your family!

Dashing lad and loving Dad. You are one lucky woman! Thank you for sharing so much with us. Teaches much! :hi:

[xmas74]

32. He was much busier than

some of my friends were in high school!

[Debi]

37. Oh, I was a total slacker

And I get bummed when I watch him and his friends (and his adult friends) thinking "that could've been me if I'd only been more motivated".

Heck, we're supposed to walk in a parade next weekend as a family (with the Black Hawk County Democrats) but he just got invited to walk with the GSA (Gay/Straight Alliance) from school - one more group he was involved with - now he has to choose between his folks and his friends...wonder what he'll do.

[xmas74]

49. Well, that will make things a bit sticky.

It's his choice and it's nice that he has to make a choice.

As to my friends-their only activities in high school consisted of deciding whether to use a one-hitter, papers, pipe or bong during break.

[Debi]

53. *snicker*

Yeah, he's not into any of that...of course Mom and Dad are around 90% of the time so that might be why :shrug:

[BarenakedLady]

27. What a wonderful happy picture!

I would be proud too.

:loveya:

[Debi]

34. I am bursting w/pride

(he's sick of it...graduation was over two weeks ago...I'm supposed to get over it by now! :yoiks:)

Thanks, he really enjoyed the party. That's all that matters. The final bash was a success.

[ThingsGottaChange]

43. You SHOULD be bursting with pride!

Way to raise your son! Good thoughts from Waverly :hi:

[Debi]

54. Well, HELLO!!!

Have you hung out in the Iowa Forum much? Don't remember if I've seen you there...if not come by and say hi - I'm sure we'll be seeing each other at 1 or 2 or 27 political events this summer! (Love your sign BTW...I wish!!)

[DixieBlue]

11. You're really for that?

Would you be forcing someone not to carry a "damaged" fetus?

And who gets to decide what's damaged or not?

Smells an awful lot like eugenics to me. And it's not a good smell.

[LaraMN]

17. Wtf? There are people far more DAMAGED by their own life

experiences and psychological issues than many children are by chromosomal anomalies and medical conditions.
Seriously, get some perspective.

[Midlodemocrat]

19. Damn. I was hoping you wouldn't see that.

:hug:

[BlueIris]

39. So was I. There really are some posters...

I am ashamed to have to share this board with. The members who are both anti-choice AND pro-eugenics are definitely among them.

[LaraMN]

45. It's no matter. Wouldn't be the first time I've heard as much.

It doesn't hurt me, frankly. It just pisses me off and reminds me how many unfortunate people still exist, who haven't the insight and wisdom to appreciate those with seemingly profound differences. I'm glad I'm not one of them; my life would be infinitely less if I were.

:-)

[Debi]

22. How true LaraMN!!!

:hug: to you!!

[BlondieK143]

29. Wow. I can see why you haven't come back to this post.

After that idiotic statement, I wouldn't show my face either. Geez.

[BreweryYardRat]

55. Actually, I don't have any problems with showing my face.

I was just away from my computer while the debate went on, and didn't get back until after my message was deleted. This is one of my personal pet topics -- not something I normally speak up about, because I know it'll piss people off, but the sheer horror of what happened made me say it in this case.

However, I'd prefer to conduct any discussions over PMs, given how fast the topic took off. No sense in clogging the forum.

And I do owe some folks an apology: I'd forgotten we had a few people in here with disabled kids.

[Debi]

56. Oh forget it...won't change anyone's mind.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

36. You don't happen to be from North Richland Hills, Texas...

are you?

[Arugula Latte]

4. Oh gawd. I hope the surviving baby doesn't have major brain damage.

That is a horrible story...

[ThomCat]

5. Damn.

:cry:

I can't imagine what this family is going through. :(

[gollygee]

6. How awful :(

I can't imagine :(

[FloridaJudy]

10. Odd

I have a number of friends and colleagues who have autistic children, and those children are not dangerous to others. They may act peculiar by most people's standards, but they're probably less likely to hurt other children than most kids are. Autistic children tend to be isolated in their own little worlds, and try to ignore others. They may throw tantrums when frustrated, but they're not deliberately vicious.

This doesn't sound like "normal" autistic behavior. Either this kid problems beyond autism, or there's more to the story.

[Pithlet]

12. That was my thought, too.

What an awful story. :cry:

[DeaconBlues]

13. I work with autistic children

Just yesterday I was kicked in the shin, pinched, and hit in the face with a belt. Aggression and poor impulse control are definitely not rare in individuals with autism.

[FloridaJudy]

18. Don't misunderstand me

I'm not saying all autistic people are gentle, retiring geniuses. I'm just saying I've never met one who could deliberately formulate a plan to hurt another, and then carry it out. Yes, they can throw monstrous tantrums when frustrated, which includes kicking, biting, hitting (though most of the ones I've met either try to run away or just lie on the ground screaming). They can grab another child's toys because to them the other kid is of less importance than the radiator and then lash out when someone attempts to reclaim the property. I'm saying it's highly unlikely an autistic child could think "Okay, now. I'll wait until everyone's asleep, then I'll sneak into my sisters' bedroom, pick them up, quietly carry them to the stairs, and then throw the little brats to their comeuppance". It requires the kind of forethought and stealth of which most autistic kids are incapable. I'm not saying it didn't happen like that, just that something about the story sounds improbable.

Unfortunately, I can recall of several of my friends' children who I suspect would be capable of thinking like that, but all of them are neurologically "normal", and most have extremely high IQs. I just believe that families of autistic individuals have enough to cope with without every else thinking that they're all nurturing little psychopaths.

Edited to add: I'm almost certain that those kids I once thought capable of plotting to wipe out their sibs grew up to be successful Republicans.

[Pithlet]

30. Thank you. I was going to post something along those lines, too.

:thumbsup:

[AngryAmish]

14. Autism is a spectrum

(Or so I'm told. There are many, many DUers with much more experience in this field than I so if I am wrong then I accept my being wrong readily)

Anyway, I'm told that some autistic folks look at people as objects, not as other humans. It is a failure of empathy so violence should not be unknown.

[DeaconBlues]

16. I don't claim to be an expert, either

But being unable to see others as people probably does contribute to an increased tendency towards violence in those who suffer from autism. So does the lower tolerance for frustration and the mental redardation that often accompanies the disorder. The image that people have of children who have autism as geniuses who have somehow been "spirited away" is sadly mistaken.

[Midlodemocrat]

15. Because autism emcompasses many different facets of

personality and behavior, it is not entire out of the norm for an autistic child to show aggression. Especially if the child is non verbal, the frustration level can be overwhelming.

I wonder if in this particular case, this little boy might be particularly sensitive to noise as a lot of children and adults on the spectrum are and the babies might have been crying?

Those of us who blithely go through our days tuning out the mundane sounds of the world can't begin to understand that to some autistic children, just the sound of the trees rustling, or the water running is nothing short of torturous.

[BlueIris]

40. Thanks for this perspective on autistic children, Midlo.

I find it sad how many people choose to remain entirely ignorant about the challenges faced by autistic people and their families, even or especially the "every day" ones.

[Zuiderelle]

28. It could just be that he wanted to take them somewhere to show them something

and ended up tripping on the stairs. I really can't fathom how this could be purposeful.

[BlueIris]

41. Thanks for this perspective, too, PelosiFan.

This is the kind of thing that could have easily happened through an unintentional accident with a non-autistic child.

[FloridaJudy]

50. Excellent point

Or he could have decided that the twins needed to be put in the kitchen so he could go back to sleep, or because the furniture there matched their jammies better. Even ordinary children do things that are unfathomable by adult standards: my own non-autistic son once emptied a bottle of chocolate syrup and a jar of peanut butter into the dishwasher, and my best friend's son shoved a baloney and grape jelly sandwich into the VCR.

Especially if the autistic eight year old is non-verbal, we'll never know why or how he did it. We can't assume malice.

[Redstone]

51. Very perceptive post.

Redstone

[Connonym]

26. I don't believe any 8 year old child is capable of committing murder

Killing someone? yes but in no way does an 8 year old have the capacity to understand what it means to kill someone. I feel so bad for the parents. I'm sure they must be going through a gamut of emotions that we would never be able to understand. This is so tragic for everyone involved.

[grace0418]

31. I'm with you. The poor parents. How do you cope with something like this?

Plus there are other children in the family too who will now be afraid of their brother. Oh the pain is just unimaginable. I hope they find some way to heal. :(

[Shine]

44. Heartbreaking story.

:cry:

[Elidor]

46. Glad to see you're still among the living, Archae

After that guy in Sheboygan got sucked into the sewer last week, I noticed you weren't around and started to worry about you. And if you ever drop your phone in the sewer, just let it go, man.

[Horse with no Name]

47. Very sad.

As much as it pains us, sometimes nothing can be done.
The boy is underage and has diminished mental capabilities. The parents couldn't possibly have known this was going to happen at 4:40 in the morning. Very sad all around. I hope the twin survives and I hope the 8-year old gets some help. I would certainly not wish what they parents are going through on anyone.