Got this one again.....what's a good rebut?

[pdx_prog]

Republican



A young woman was about to finish her first year of college. Like so many
>others her age she considered herself to be a very liberal Democrat and was
>for distribution of all wealth. She felt deeply ashamed that her father was
>a rather staunch Republican which she expressed openly.
>
>One day she was challenging her father on his beliefs and his opposition to
>higher taxes on the rich and more welfare programs. In the middle of her
>heart-felt diatribe based upon the lectures she had from her far left
>professors at her school, he stopped her and asked her point blank how she
>was doing in school.
>
>She answered rather haughtily that she had a 4.0 GPA and let him know that
>it was tough to maintain. That she had to study all the time, never had
time
>to go out and party like other people she knew. She didn't even have time
>for a boyfriend and didn't really have many college friends because of
>spending all her time studying and that she was taking a more difficult
>curriculum.
>
>Her father listened and then asked, "How is your friend Mary."
>
>She replied, "Mary is barely getting by". She continued, "all she has is
>barely a 2.0 GPA and all she takes are easy classes; she never studies." To
>explain further she continued emotionally, "But Mary is so very popular on
>campus -- college for her is a blast. She goes to all the parties all the
>time and very often doesn't even show up for classes because she is too
hung
>over."
>
>Her father then asked his daughter, "Why don't you go to the Dean's office
>and ask him to deduct a 1.0 off your 4.0 GPA and give it to your friend who
>only has a 2.0." He continued, "That way you will both have a 3.0 GPA, and
>certainly that would be a fair and equal distribution of GPA."
>
>The daughter, visibly shocked by the father's suggestion, angrily fired
>back, "That wouldn't be fair! I worked really hard for mine. I did without
>and Mary has done little or nothing. She played while I worked real hard!"
>
>The father slowly smiled and said, "Welcome to the Republican Party

[wryter2000]

1. The main fallacy, imho

The main fallacy is that people who are rich are that way because they worked hard. Many, many rich people inherited their wealth. Others, such as Ken Lay, made millions by ripping people off.

Furthermore, this doesn't even address the fact that corporations aren't paying taxes. Who's the corporation in this parable?

[pdx_prog]

2. Good one...

[Richardo]

7. The other fallacy is that people don't achieve because they're lazy

What if Mary is black and the professor is a racist?

Or she's working her ass off and the professor is grading on the curve.

[ikojo]

20. Mary could be white but from a working class background

She most likely did not have access to teachers with PhDs (as is found in one of the wealthier suburbs of St Louis). The school facilities may be crumbling (as in the city of St Louis).

Mary could be the first person in her family to attend college (as was I) and the culture shock may be too much for her. While I did not party in school I did play my fair share of Dungeons and Dragons and video games. People don't understand the stresses involved in being the first kid in a working class family to attend college. Not only do your siblings, who went to work directly from high school, not understand the need for an education but they may think you believe you are better than they on account of your education.

I have a friend who is a trust fund baby and admits that she did not do as well in college (a private institution in MA). She admits that she smoked way too much herb. But she graduated because her parents could afford to write out a check for tuition.

[kmla]

11. Well, if this were real life, would her father defend the son of the guy

who donated big moolah to the school, but who happened to inherit a 4.0 grade point average - and didn't work a freakin' day in his life? Or would he not be taxed @ a 1.0 level? Maybe we shouldn't force him to give up any of his grade points... By their economic reasoning, you see, if he gets better grades, he will share that knowledge with everyone, and we all will get smarter, right? We'll all be better off. Yeah, trickle down academics. Hmmmm...

The reality of the situation is, the stupid son of a dumbass who inherits his 4.0 GPA will not want to share his GPA, or any of his knowledge. And the person from average means who works his/her ass off will be forced to give up some of his/her GPA to subsidize the silver-spooned idiot so that perhaps he will have a 4.2 GPA on a 4.0 scale.

Then he'll bitch about class warfare on the high GPA kids.

[EstimatedProphet]

12. Right

NO ONE argues in favor of completely equal redistribution of wealth under our system. It doesn't even make sense to do so. There is nothing wrong with the idea of working hard to become rich, and keeping the rewards. BUT:
Taxes go to fund the infrastructure of the US (the government), which is used by all the citizens, including the rich. Anti-taxers claim that the rich don't use the infrastructure proportionally as much as the poor because they don't use social security or welfare-as if that were the only thing. What about the court system? The rich use the court system far more than the poor. Why shouldn't that be financed proportionally? All the torts and lawsuits add up.

[Bridget Burke]

3. Mary's the one with a trust fund.....

Even if she doesn't do well in college, it doesn't matter. She'll marry well (& maybe divorce even better). Or she might step into a position in the family business.

Or she could be President--just like her dad!

[TXlib]

4. Paints democrats as Robin Hood redistributers of wealth

Which is a straw man argument.

[sinkingfeeling]

5. Just because you work hard, doesn't make you rich or somehow

better than anyone else. Most low-wage workers I know are working at least 2 40-hour a week jobs! When was the last day, George W. ever did any 'hard' work?

[GOPisEvil]

6. That assumes the poor person is lazy.

Spend some time in the food stamp office determining benefits like I did. You'll find that a sizeable portion of those receiving benefits are employed, and work their asses off for next to nothing. They're just trying to support their families. Ask the person who sent you this crap to imagine budgeting for a family of 4 on $1212.40 per month, pre-tax. That's $7.00/hr x 40 hrs/week x 4.33 to convert to monthly.

[LincolnMcGrath]

8. Another fallacy is that 'the rich pay more'!

GHWB payed around 17-18% according to his election campaign records. This is spun similar to the right using a Kennedy speech snippet to justify tax cuts for the rich.

[Warren Stuart]

9. Mary W. Bush

This describes George W. to a tee, he never did a lick of work in college, cheated his whole way through, skated by with C's. He was popular and drunk all the time.

You don't start off in life with a 4.0 average, this has to be earned. Mary chose to be a goof-off. I'm sure that nearly all poor people did not choose to be poor. This is the fallacy in this argument.

Plus no Dean would ever allow students to trade GPA's, this flat out stupid.

[never cry wolf]

10. Reply with your own story

Make up a story about Latisha, or Jessica and how she was raised by a single mom who cleaned rich peoples houses during the day and took in sewing and cleaning at night. The girl worked hard in school but the facilities were poor, the textbooks 20 years old and teacher turnover was high. She got excellent grades but could not afford college like the girl in this story. She ended up as a waitress busting her butt for 10 hours a day and never was able to get out of her neighborhood. Welcome to the Democratic party.

[Kamika]

13. I would just ignore this shit

Standard generalizing shit from your avg nimkapoob republican without a clue. I'd rather become a substitute teacher in highschool then answer shit like this.


I mean wtf he says that all ppl on welfare just go to parties and shit?

Oh and Mary probably has a rich republican father who will make sure she gets a great job anyway. Welcome to the republican party

[northzax]

14. ignore it

but if you can't bring yourself to do so, tell the story of Jane, who can only pull a 2.0 because she's working 40 hours a week to put herself through college, since she doesn't have a rich father to pay for it.

And then tack on the story of Kim, who can't even go to college, since she needs to care for her disabled mother, and works 60 hours a week at McDonald's and WalMart since she only has a high school education.

And throw in Bob, who joined the military to pay for college, but can't stufy due to the throbbing pain of his recently amputated left leg.

And Jim, who also joined the National Guard and can't claim his education benefits, since he's dead.

On Edit: to be a true conservative (little "c") , the father would have to cut his daughter off at 18, make her pay her own way through college. Then she's know the value of a buck.

by the way, how is it that these two girls are friends, anyway?


but never mind, those are all just lazy layabouts.

[pdx_prog]

15. I used to have

a good graph showing the distribution of Bush's tax cuts....I can't find it now......anyone have anything similar?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

16. Good replies

Print out this whole thread and send it to your correspondent.

[pdx_prog]

17. Love the replies!

Thanks guy's (and women...:)!

[northzax]

18. don't forget the Hermaphrodites!

we must be good inclusive liberals, you know...

[EV1Ltimm]

19. It assumes old rich white guys are fuckin' pricks.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

22. I thought that was fact...

Did I not get the memo?
Duckie

[rock]

21. "Welcome to the Republican Party" because it's fair

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. That's a real knee-slapper!

[SheilaT]

23. The other implicit assumption

is that GPA is somehow exactly like income and taxes. It's not. And taking part of one person's grade and giving it to another is extremely unlike taxing people (their income, their various monetary transactions) to fund services that benefit all.

[trof]

24. Her father then asked his daughter,

"Why don't you invite Mary here for dinner tomorrow? Maybe you and I could talk to her and explain the importance of doing well in college. I don't know her family, but maybe no one has ever explained to her how vital it may be to succeed in this stage of her life. Maybe you could even offer to tutor her in some of her more difficult classes."

"Gee, dad, that's great idea. Maybe she just needs a little help. Why didn't I think of that?"
The father slowly smiled and said, "Welcome to the Democratic Party".

[Richardo]

25. Good one, trof....

:thumbsup: Well said!

[pdx_prog]

26. I LOVE IT......