Is it economical to make your own bread?

[UndertheOcean]

?

[Blue-Jay]

1. Sure, but the feds will arrest you.

[GreenPartyVoter]

2. Bwahahaha!

[UndertheOcean]

4. why ?

??? joking ? right? ....RIGHT ??

[electron_blue]

22. bread = money (slang)

[triguy46]

16. My wife and I had been married one week, when the people in the house behind us

were busted for printing $20s on a color copier. This makes more sense when I tell you it was 1977 and there was only 1 color copier in the city we lived, and they had paid with a check.

[madinmaryland]

25. Goddammit! Why can't he figure out that it's a squirrel!

:grr:

[AlCzervik]

3. like what kind man?

[UndertheOcean]

6. like regular whole wheat loafs

[GreenPartyVoter]

5. Not sure. I make some once in a while but it goes fast around here.

[philosophie_en_rose]

7. Nope.

The price of yeast and flour is about the same as a loaf of cheap bread. Plus, you don't have to spend hours making it. Cheap bread isn't very good, but it's easier and cheaper than making it yourself.

[UndertheOcean]

8. bread takes hours?

I though you just mix , roll and into the oven it goes

[havocmom]

19. There is rising time in there too.

Most breads have two separate risings. No work involved during that time, just before and after.

[kentauros]

11. Yes, it does take hours of work...

...all done by the breadmachine :P

However, if you want the opportunity to take some of your frustrations of the day out of a big ball of dough, go for the 4-hour, made-from-scratch-method of mixing, proofing, kneading, rising, kneading, rising, forming, and baking :D

[unpossibles]

12. but making good bread is cheaper and easier and more fun

plus it's satisfying. You don't need a lot of time so much as time to babysit the dough whileit rises - the mixing and kneading and shaping are all fairly quick, you just need to be able to watch it for a few hours start to finish.

[kentauros]

18. Yes, most of the time spent making bread

is pretty lazy stuff: waiting!

I've tried the overnight, unyeasted (or yeasted, no-knead) recipes and was never that happy with the texture. No gluten development because there's no kneading (kneading helps the protein strands "fold" and contribute to the chewiness of the final product.) Edward Espe Brown has a few recipes for no-knead/unyeasted breads in his book The Tassajara Bread Book. He was the head chef/baker at a Zen monastery for many years and developed all the recipes in that book at that monastery. It's worth finding. If it's out of print, find a used copy :)

[unpossibles]

24. actually, that book sounds very familiar

I was an artisan baker (hard crusted Italian and French breads mainly, along with biscotti, cookies, some cakes and pastries) for about 8 years before I got tired of not sleeping. On the bright side, now that it's no longer a career, I enjoy doing it at home more again!

Anyway, thanks for the recommendation. I will see if I can track that down, although I agree with you in that I prefer kneaded bread. Plus, as someone else said, the kneading part is very fun in an odd way - the texture and feeling of the dough and all.

cheers! I think I'll make some bread tomorrow. You've inspired me, and it's a good winter activity.

[kentauros]

29. Happy to be such an inspiration! :)

I guess I should add the cooking and baking group to my groups so I can post my pita bread recipe. It only takes about 2.5 hours start to finish (probably more like three hours for the first time with an unfamiliar recipe.)

I have sooo much baking and candy-making to do for the holidays. But I'm also going to do that as my gifts instead of buying "things". I have done that in the past. It's fun, exhausting and so rewarding when you get nothing but thanks and big grins for a big bag of biscotti or truffles or candied grapefruit peels... :D

I have training in pastry and baking, but I never could make a decent living at it.

I'm going to attempt Turkish Delight this weekend :)

[unpossibles]

34. sounds great! (the pita and the Turkish Delight)

it's not a bad living if you're a night owl (which I am) and don't mind physical work (which I don't), but it does wear you down, especially when you have any sort of life outside of it. I didn't mind some of the all night shifts, but the last bakery I worked for, I had to be there at 4am - too early to get up, too late to stay up - for 6 days a week, and honestly that killed my passion for it.

We've talked about doing the cookies/baked gifts again this year too. It's a decent amount of work, but very fulfilling (and very full feeling...lol) and fun. I should check out those groups too.

Anyway, good cheer to you and yours!

ps - the centaur avatar: are you a Sagittarius by chance? If so, happy birthday-ish! Mine's the 16th.

[kentauros]

40. I worked for a Swiss bakery here in Houston for about a year.

I loved that job, five days a week, off Sunday and Monday, but my immediate "supervisor" had no concept of managing another person. I was pretty much a beginner baker, but I learned quickly and did my best to work as fast as needed. Nothing I did was ever good enough for her, yet the owner, a native of Switzerland, was always nice and encouraging to me. I hated having to lie to him at the end of the year that I was going back to school. I simply didn't have the guts at the time to tell him right out that I was leaving because that "good friend of the family" didn't know how to manage people. All my subsequent jobs after that sucked and I went back to drafting. Twelve years later and I'm a Sr. Mapping Designer :D

It was great experience and I'm forever grateful that I was able to get some pastry and baking training. It helps to understand how it all works, like when things fail and you need to correct the recipe.

postus scriptus: I know the centaur avatar may make it seem like I'm Sagittarius, but I'm not. I just love centaurs :)
My mother's birthday is tomorrow, though, so I'll have to call (since I'm bad about forgetting to send cards...) But Happy Birthday to you, too :D

[AngryAmish]

37. Cook's Illustrated has a version of no-knead in Jan/Feb 08 issue

I just made the no-knead for the first time last weekend. I followed mostly the Vogue version (I swear to god - my wife saved it for me a few months back.)

Anyway, I found out that I can crank my oven up to 550 deg. I also found out that I loosen the knob on my le crueset dutch oven at that temp.

The Cook's Illustrated calls for adding some beer for more flavor. Plus about 15 seconds of kneading.

I was happy how my bread turned out but it was not perfect. I'm backing the temp back to 500 next time or leaving the cover on for a longer time.

[kentauros]

42. Cook's Illustrated is a great cooking mag :)

But since I'm vegetarian, most of it doesn't appeal anymore. Still, I have kept all my old issues (even the ones when they had advertising and were more of a "glossy" magazine) and use the biscotti recipes from the 6th issue, I think.

The addition of the beer to your recipe would add a tiny bit of yeast, but the alcohol would also kill off the rest of the yeast in the dough. That's why it only proofs so far in the rising. Salt is another inhibitor and not just added for flavor or flavor enhancement.

By the way, 500F or higher is best for doughs you want to puff up fast, like pita and pizza. I would never use it for a normal loaf recipe since at those temps it's turning the water in the dough into steam and puffing it all up with big holes or separating it, like with the pita. When I make pitas I heat the oven as high as it will go (550F) but I also have an octagonal kiln shelf on the lowest rack to bake on. I highly recommend some kind of baking stone for loaves not baked in a pan. I went with the kiln shelf because it was inexpensive but good for temperatures as high as 1500F

One of the back issues of Cook's also has a great food-processor recipe for puff-pastry. That's fun for making cheese straws :D

[AngryAmish]

44. Comments

1. Not too much beer is added. It is for flavor only. IIRC, lager and not ales etc. It had something to do with how the beer is made.

2. The bread is baked in a dutch oven. .5 hr with lid on then .5 hr or so w/o the lid. It is intentionally steamy in there (simulated fancy bakery ovens). The steam creates the nice crust. You want the irregular holes, it is a sign of a good loaf.

3. Never bake bread in a pan. Are you English?

4. I am waaaaay to lazy to make my own puff pastry. If you could tell me the year I might be able to get the recipe, if it is easy.

[kentauros]

45. Thanks for the clarification of the beer and dutch oven :)

And no, I'm not British, I'm Texan :P

Yes, I make bread in a pan. I haven't used them in a while but I have at least four Pyrex loaf pans and two metal pans. I also have a baguette pan that I don't use much at all. Of course, my breadmachine uses a pan ;)

The puff pastry recipe has more work in the forming of the things you want to make than in the mixing. Since it's all done in a food processor (I have an old but large Cuisinart) you don't have any of the rolling, folding, freezing, repeat process to do. It works quite well, but I will have to look at my magazines when I get home tonight to find the recipe. The cheese straws came out quite well. I can't remember if I did elephant ears or bowties tho...

[JVS]

21. If you make bread frequently don't you keep a yeast culture living?

[kentauros]

26. Some bakeries are able to "get away with" using less yeast

because over the years the yeast used has pretty well coated everything in the bakery and continues to live and produce spores. That might work well for a sourdough bakery, but any other yeasted breads will still require some yeast added.

[Shakespeare]

28. Not if you keep a starter.

A natural starter will give you outstanding homemade sourdough--which tastes better & is much better for you. And it's free (not including the little bit of flour you feed it).

[kentauros]

30. Which is why I said a sourdough bakery

would be able to get away with not adding yeast to the dough ;)

I've only ever done starters in baking class. I'm afraid I'm just not disciplined enough to stay on top of it and keep it 'fed' so it remains alive. Not to mention make enough bread to replenish it regularly...

We did have one student that used the proofbox we kept the starters in as his means of making a cherry mash

[Shakespeare]

27. If you maintain a starter, it's MUCH cheaper.

And tastes better, too.

[kentauros]

31. True, when you want sourdough bread :)

It's probably good to have a starter on hand but to also make non-sourdough breads. Potato bread is a favorite as well as a standard French or Italian braided loaf :D

[NMDemDist2]

9. easiest bread ever! go buy a big bag (25lb) of flour and

divide it and freeze it (so it won't go rancid) and make this stuff

it's foolproof and delish

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/08/dining/081mrex.html?ex=1320642000&en=d5976d62a4577548&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

[bicentennial_baby]

10. Yes indeedy....

Cheaper and fast :D

[Generic Brad]

13. Only if you serve it with circuses

Bread and circuses, baby! Keeps the masses happy.

[kentauros]

14. And listen to some

Little Jack Melody or Nick Cave while you're at it

[XemaSab]

15. I dunno about economical

but it's sure yummah. :9

[DarkTirade]

17. It's definately economical to make your own pizza. :)

but you gotta know how to throw the dough properly.

[JVS]

20. I have a co-worker who makes her own bread. She says it's cheap and easy enough.

I'm not talking about the occasional loaf either. She makes this bread for her entire family to eat as a staple. She offered me some, it was like bread in the old country.
She also recently had her fifth child and could have another one at any time thanks to our good friends in the Vatican, so maybe her idea of what is arduous or not is a bit foreign to us all.

[electron_blue]

23. We bought a wheat grinder and bread maker about 15 yrs ago. Considering everything

we figure we broke even some years into the venture. After that was "profit" meaning that even if you include the cost of the wheat berries, yeast, sugar and so forth, it was still cheaper than a loaf of bread that we'd have otherwise bought. We didn't buy the cheapest kind.

[TreasonousBastard]

32. It depends. I make bread for maybe half a buck...

a loaf, even counting the energy used in mixing and baking.

But, unless you're good at it, and eat a lot of it, buying good bread for 2-3 bucks or so a loaf has a lot to be said for it. Most of the time it's better than the stuff you're going to make, and the main question is just what's in that stuff you're buying.

Commercial bakeries might be using dough conditioners, antifungal agents and other such stuff to make the bread more salable than wholesome. The wrapped aupermarket breads will tell you right on the label, but local, even artisan, bakeries might be a bit cagy about their shortcuts. Or, they might be making marvelous, untainted bread it's going to be difficult to duplicate at home. (I once got stuff from a great Brazilian bakery that molded up in two or three days if I didn't freeze it-- no additives there.)

I look at breadmaking, with or without the machine, as a hobby more than anything else. It's fun when I have the time and I can experiment, like with squash and pumpkin breads. I even made cauliflower bread-- it was pretty good.

FWIW, look at the dearth of bread machines in the appliance section. Used to be all over the place, but seems like sales have taken a nosedive. Think about why.

[kentauros]

33. I think "why" breadmachines aren't selling as much

is due to things like low-carb diets more than anything. I still use my machine; infrequently, yes, due to being alone now, but it's a great time and effort saver when I have other things I can do simultaneously (like sleep!) ;)

Oh, you can thwart the quick molding up of bread by using a hygroscopic sugar like honey or molasses instead of granular sugar. Since it draws a little moisture from the air, it keeps longer. It may still mold up in 4-5 days, but if you eat a sandwich from it everyday, you should use it up by then :D

[TreasonousBastard]

35. It may be the low-carb fads, but I still think a lot of it is...

people jumped on the bake-your-own-bread fad and realized that it's a real pain in the ass for most people.

Even with a bread machine, you have to assemble the ingredients, toss them in the gizmo, wait three hours, and then clean the gizmo. The gizmo which is occupying valuable counter space. I've noticed that this is simply too much for a lot of people these days, particularly when they can just grab a loaf when shopping.

And the bread machine doesn't do hot dog and hamburger buns.

Part of the molding problem I had was where I wass living-- something was in the air there and even store bread molded before it should. I don't have that problem any more. Here, stuff molds, but not almost overnight.

[kentauros]

38. I would say that the ulta-lazy choose to make it a pain in the arse...

Getting the ingredients together (even taking the time to do the proper baking method of weighing the ingredients) only takes me 15 minutes. I even heat up the water in order to dissolve the salt and sugar into it so it mixes better. Then I do something else while it's mixing/baking. I think most people understand multitasking, right? ;)

But I can understand how even 15 minutes of having to deal with even the slightest amount of effort would be too much for some people. Thus we have coffee-makers that have the grounds all self-contained in convenient filter packs and timer-controlled makers with a water-line tap (don't know if that last bit is true, but would make sense) so that the most "work" anyone has to do is to plop the packet of coffee in. If only they could hire someone to do that, too, for them... :P

As for the bit about buns, what is the proportion of buns sold to loaves? I rarely buy buns of any kind unless I am buying some tofurky dogs, too. Again, not very often, but I use loaf-bread often. I would think even the avid home-baker would buy buns, too, simply because it is added work to make them versus a loaf.

I do like setting my machine to bake overnight, though. Since I'm not a coffee-drinker, waking up to fresh-baked bread is just as good an aroma

[IzaSparrow]

36. Yes, but I haven't figured in the electricity...

We have a bread machine that has a programmable timer on it. You can have it start while you're still sleeping and then have fresh bread when you wake.

No matter when you start making the bread, it makes your house smell incredible. If you didn't know you were making bread, you might just start eating your walls (the snozberries taste like snozberries).

[Ellen Forradalom]

39. Buy your yeast in quantity at the Costco.

That's the most costly ingredient, and it's MUCH MUCH cheaper in bulk.

You can maintain its freshness by dividing up the bag and vacuum sealing it (if you have a seal-a-meal) or ziploc-bagging it, and refrigerating it.

[kentauros]

43. I recommend freezing it instead of just refrigerating it.

I buy it in one-pound bags (usually SAF Instant) and then keep it in a stainless container with one of those heavy-wire, rubber sealing lids (whatever the proper term is.) I've found that yeast will keep for a couple of years, assuming you don't use it up before then. If you are unsure if it is still usable, proof a little in some warm water and see if it foams up much. If not, toss it out and buy another bag :)

It would be interesting to see just how long the vacuum sealing would keep yeast when frozen... :)

[Ellen Forradalom]

46. Even dry in the pantry, it works really well

I'm still using yeast I sealed last year.

It's so much cheaper in bulk, you've already saved money after just a few loaves.

[EstimatedProphet]

41. Depends on the flour

If you get big sacks of flour,like 25 lbs or more, then it likely will be very economical. If you get high-end specialty grind flour, then maybe not.