Anyone here do web design/web construction work?

[Flaxbee]

I'm trying to get an idea of pricing -- a national nonprofit organization needs to get its web site redone, but it is unknown to what extent -- the person who did the current site is playing games about who owns what, giving pages/information/content back to the organization, etc... one of the many reasons the site needs to be redone. It could be the site needs to be built from scratch, or maybe whomever does the work will have some files to work with.

My friend - a member of the organization - has been tasked to get some idea of what it might cost the group for webwork. I think they were initially charged $12K. One of the main aspects of the site would be a directory; apparently there are close to 100 pages of content.

She asked me if I knew anything, but I have no idea about current pricing. Does anyone have any estimates - what she might expect? Is there a base charge, and then a separate hourly upkeep/maintenance fee a web designer would charge to troubleshoot/add new content? Are there other monthly fees? I think she just wants to have an idea of what is fair so they don't get screwed again. I did tell her whatever agreement the group signs needs to specify that the group owns all web content, not the web designer.

Anyway - thanks for any input.

[China_cat]

1. Unless they're getting a lot of flash,

database work, dynamic pages, etc, $120/page is so fucking ridiculous it makes me ill. $5000 should be the absolute tops it costs to build it (and I believe that even with dynamic pages it shouldn't be more than half that) and a monthly upkeep charge (with an hourly minimum) WHEN THERE ARE CHANGES TO BE MADE or when the domain space needs maintenance.

You can't specify ALL web content if the designer is doing graphics from scratch. Those you have to leave the property of the author. And I mean TOTALLLY from scratch, not manipulated from photographs or drawings provided by the organization.

[Flaxbee]

3. I don't think they need flash -- just a lot of content

with cross-referenced directories, etc. $5000, even for 100 pages?

Right re content ownership -- I understand, thanks.

[China_cat]

5. $5000 TOPS

Like I said, $2500 would be more in the ballpark.

You might try suggesting that they hit the technical schools in the area and talk to people in the computer courses department. They might find an advanced student, who would be up to date on all the bells and whistles plus have input from a professional instructor for a REALLY reasonable fee ($1000 or, more likely, a lot less) as long as the student could use the site as part of his/her online portfolio when applying for jobs.

[cuke]

8. Even $2500 sounds high

and finding a student to do it as a class project is definitely a good idea. I've seen that done.

[China_cat]

9. It might sound high but if you're doing a dynamic site

database driven with the cross-referenced directories, they can be a bit of a PITA to set up. A dream to administer but getting it there is worth every penny. Just not 12K worth of pennies, though.

[graywarrior]

2. I hired a web designer for a non-profit and she charged 2 grand

for a 15 page site. She did a great job.

[Flaxbee]

4. thanks - that's good to know

Did you keep her on retainer, so to speak, for maintenance or other hourly work?

[graywarrior]

7. Yes.

I can give you her email if you want.

[Flaxbee]

19. thanks, graywarrior -- I might need it

I'm talking to my friend Sunday or Monday and will see if she's collecting references / people to contact....

[Omphaloskepsis]

6. I have done that kind of work for a living before..

If you post a link to the site (or a PM) I could let you know what I would have charged to recreate it.

[Xithras]

10. I own a consulting firm that does a lot of web work

Our basic rule of thumb is $100 per page for any page where content is provided, and $150 per page anywhere content aggregation or authoring is required. That would put your site between $10,000 and $15,000.

Keep in mind that this is a project averaged cost, and not simply per page pricing. A site developed at that rate would typically include the implementation of a low end content management system to ease ongoing maintenance, onsite training for all current staff, and the development of training and instructional materials for forward maintenance with new employees. For a non-profit like yours, that rate might also include the development of a simple Paypal based online donation function, or something similar.

Without actually having the project requirements in front of me, of course, anything I give you is simply an educated guess. I've done projects that averaged anywhere from $20 a page (a $1,500 project) to over $24,000 a page (a $1.2 million dollar project that included heavy application development). There really is a wide range of prices depending on the needs of the client.

Do make sure that your employer looks into the background of the companies and verifies that the pricing is appropriate for the vendor selected. There are a lot of small one or two-person web companies out there who try to charge rates comparable to my company's, and it really isn't appropriate to do so. We can charge $150 a page because I have eight developers on staff and we can fully redevelop a 100-page site in under seven days. For many clients, the money is worth the speed and lack of headaches. We also focus our development on a relatively narrow band of business and government interests, and because of that we have a better understanding of what our clients are looking for right out of the gate. We also have a marketing guy on staff who helps to integrate any web work with their current marketing strategies, themes, etc. We can parse client demographics to develop use cases that will drive design, or to help promote the site to groups that may currently be underutilizing the resource.

Basically, for $100-$150 a page, you should be getting a lot more than one lone guy tacking HTML pages together.

[Flaxbee]

12. thanks - a lot of information in your reply

that I'll pass along. Apparently there will need to be a pretty detailed database that will need to be encrypted. But I really have no idea how much the content of each page will change, and how dynamic that content will be. But your price ranges give me some good information that she can hopefully put to good use.

Thank you!

[DS1]

11. depends on the type of pages really

if it's 100 very similar pages but for the text, there's no reason to charge $100 per page. That's just ripping people off, since after the first 5 or so commonly used pages are done, the rest are essentially cut and paste jobs. if you build it right, that is. charging people unique page prices for that kind of work is simply unethical.

[izzybeans]

13. i've got a friend who does web design. He would quote you via his company and free lance.

If you're interested I'll pm you his email address.

This is an example of his work (his personal music zine) www.firesideometer.com

[Flaxbee]

16. thank you --

I'm talking to my friend Sunday or Monday and will see if she wants a selection of names and companies. I'll PM you if she does.

[Redstone]

14. I stay away from "per page" pricing. I quote a price for the whole project, after

the scope of the project has been agreed upon.

Before you get too worked up about people's pricing (or let some people here get you all worked up), remember that the designer / developer has to put a LOT of time into the project right at the front end...meetings and sample layouts / structures, and so on.

That can take a LOT of time, and has to be factored into any pricing, whether fixed or per-page.

I'm pretty specialized, so you might not be able to judge from my pricing, but I've done sites ranging from $7500 (my minimum for doing a website) for 20 or so pages, to over 35 grand for a 200+ page site.

Unless, of course, it's for a nonprofit. In that case, their cost is zero for a small site, to whatever they can COMFORTABLY afford for a large one.

Redstone

[Flaxbee]

15. thanks, Redstone...

more good advice.

PS - looks like you had a lot of fun picking up a Christmas tree today! :hi:

[Redstone]

17. Yes, it was a lot of fun indeed. Good luck with your project, and let us know how

it ends up working out for you.

Redstone

[HamstersFromHell]

18. One thing to think about...

No matter who you hire to do the actual creation, make sure your contract with them gives you ownership of not only the page code generated, but all the files used in whichever software package they used to do the design and layout. (.nod files if they used good old Fusion, etc.)

This might be a sticking point with some folks (it's been years since I last did web design), but owning the files used to create the site as well as the site's code is well worth paying a bit extra for...you're not tied by them down the road if they make additional or unreasonable demands. Just take your source that you own and hire someone else, rather than having to pay extra to have it all recreated and/or reverse engineered from the HTML.\

[Flaxbee]

20. I think that's a bit of the trouble this group finds themselves in...

they were really trusting with the first company they chose, and now don't even know what they own (if anything) - so the new job could be HUGE or could be relatively straightforward.