I'm sure when we think "Rock and Roll" first thing we think is "Madonna"

[LynneSin]

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/17618461/madonna_john_mellencamp_leonard_cohen_lead_2008_rock_and_roll_hall_of_fame_inductees

:grr:

Madonna in a so-called 'Rock n Roll' Hall of Fame and yet they won't put in Rush, King Crimson, Yes or Moody Blues.

Let's call this what it is - the Commericial Hall of Fame of overplayed crap (yeah, I know - LZ is in there)

[MazeRat7]

1. Like when I think seafood... natually my first thougt is about sushi.

Not. I guess she and John deserve the honor for all they have done, but certainly they are not at the top of my list when someone says "Rock Star".

Speaking of which...

These are rockstars...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=76i6aZgo2io

Peace,
MZr7

[LynneSin]

3. I can't get You TUbe at work

and btw, I think John does deserve it - he's done well. And I'm not being critical of Madonna's body of work - she truly has stood the test of time.

My criticism is a Hall of Fame that's suppose to be "Rock & Roll" and yet they leave out some of the greatest bands because the guy running it doesn't get certain genre's of music.

[MazeRat7]

9. I know... I've always wondered how that whole thing works.

Hall of Fame ? Some that make it I agree with and some that dont I will never understand. Go figure.

MZr7

[Deja Q]

2. Okay. The shark has not only jumped the pool, it drained the water along when jumping.

[MonkeyFunk]

4. She deserves to be in

She's been a major star for 25 years. Her last tour was the most successful tour of that year, and she's sold 26 million albums since 2000 alone.

She's an icon of the 80s, she's largely responsible for the success of MTV, and she's influenced many performers who came after her.

When you think Rock Star, do you think of Leonard Cohen?

[LynneSin]

7. I'm not questioning her being in a hall of fame of some sort

I'm questioning that this guy calls it "Rock & Roll" and I hardly qualify Madonna in that genre. I'm just peeved that real Rock bands are not considered because Jann Weinner doesn't like certain genres of music. How could you have Madonna in a "Rock & Roll" Hall of Fame and not have Rush - which probably has one of the best drummers and frontmen in all of rock history?

BTW, I have her entire collection of music - I'm a big Madonna fan. I'm just thinking that perhaps we should rename the Hall of Fame to something more appropriate for what you find in it.

[Deja Q]

10. Pop star. It's not quite the same thing.

"The Monkees" has more merit of being in the Hall of Fame.

Just my humble opinions, of course... But Madonna's entry will surely pave the way for Britney to make it in some 20 years from now. And Britney is just as much a rock'n'roller as Madonna wasn't.

[LynneSin]

11. I don't know about Britney

Madonna pretty much was the pre-cursor for folks like Britney. But until Britney learns to reign in her personal life from the Media, I don't think Britz career will hardly be 'Hall of Fame' worthy.

Sure, Madonna had her time in the spot-light but no where near as intense as what Brit isgoing through

[MonkeyFunk]

34. Britney will never be in the HoF

She's had no impact, and there's no way she's going to be at the top of the business for 25 years. Her time is already passed.

[Common Sense Party]

51. But Britney WILL be in the HoH

Hall of Ho's

[HughBeaumont]

14. Madonna != rock. At all.

"she's largely responsible for the success of MTV"

That alone should disqualify her.

[graywarrior]

5. I always considered Madonna as "non-music disco".

[caty]

6. I've never really

understood her success. She isn't any more talented that a thousand other singers. And don't tell me it's her looks. She always looks a little skanky to me.:shrug:

[LynneSin]

8. I think she's a great talent - she knows how to reinvent and promote herself

which is her greatest reason to success.

25 years ago she was a Britney Spears but Madonna was smart enough to not allow her personal life to overwhelm and engulf her professional career.

My irritation is Hall of Fame that won't put certain rock bands in even though these bands overwhelmingly deserve to be in a Rock & Roll hall of fame

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

12. I like Madonna

I think she's had a pretty good string of tunes. The material she's decided to interpret has always been pretty solid.

However, I agree with you that the four rock bands you listed are as deserving of being in the Rock HOF. Even though I like her tunes, I have to say that Madonna doesn't have as much of that rock edginess that the others you mention had. By an "edge" I'm not talking about Madonna's bad girl image. She's edginess personified as far as that's concerned. I'm talking about the style of the rock. The others are loud, often improvised, free-wheeling and more blues-based. Madonna's music was more controlled, packaged, highly arranged,and perfect, with anonymous studio musicians performing on her records, and with an emphasis almost completely on the words and melody and not on the musicianship going on behind her. The rock bands you listed have individuals extremely famous among rock fans for their amazing musicianship. Rush's drummer, for example. Madonna's not Grace Slick, as part of a rock and roll band, she's a singer who could perform with any combination of back up musicians. It's somewhere between pop and rock, in my opinion, but it's still good. You can't ignore that Madonna has been a major star for the young people during her reign. And again, I find a lot of her stuff, especialy what she did early on in her career to be very listenable, even though maybe not as musically exciting as the hard-core rock bands such as the ones you mentioned.

[kwassa]

13. Madonna is a mediocre talent with a great business sense

She managed to parlay self-promotion to greater heights than almost any performer I can think of. It made her a lot of money.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

15. KISS anyone?

A mediocre band with a great business sense.

[LynneSin]

17. The fact that at one time I could buy this from the KISS website says alot about their biz sense

Crazy thing is - I bet people bought it too

[HughBeaumont]

16. Critics have hated progressive rock since the first song that went past 6 minutes.

Madonna is the musical version of Buzz Lightyears "Falling . . . with style" when he thinks he's flying. Only unlike Buzz, she'll never come to.

Nominating Chic, Donna Summer, Madonna . . . it's simply a continued giant middle finger toward prog, a genre that's almost required to be hated among dilletante "in-the-know's" of music. Gee, sorry, if it doesn't come from NYC in the 70s, sounds like it's recorded on a four track and is under 2.5 minutes long, I guess it isn't worth a shit.

[LynneSin]

18. AMEN - sign me up for your team

:D

[B3Nut]

21. Most of the people I've known who dug Prog

were fellow musicians. Non-musicians don't often "get" it at all. I've caused confused looks in bars equipped with Internet jukeboxes...interrupting the fake-country and Black Eyed Peas and whatever crap the barflies play with blasts of Gentle Giant, Primus, Frank Zappa, Yes (including The Gates Of Delirium in its entirety...that was fun!) It makes load-in for gigs easier to take. ;)

Todd in Cheesecurdistan

[LynneSin]

22. My brother turned me on to prog rock and neither of us were real musicians

We did some HS band stuff but that was it.

There was something about putting on an album with 20 minute songs that allowed you to escape away into this secret world of your own creation. That's how I fell in love with Prog Rock

BTW - this is the absolutely BEST website for Prog fans

http://www.progarchives.com/

[B3Nut]

29. Ah, the escape into a secret world thing

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: I always loved that...put on the phones or sit in the "audiophile sweet spot" and turn off the lights...zone out...

No drugs needed, pure sonic flight within the confines of one's skull, yet soaring through a boundless cosmos lit with multiple colors, all courtesy of a vinyl record or a CD. :)

Yeah, you get it! :D

Oh yes, I LOVE LOVE LOVE progarchives, I use 'em as a radio!

Todd in Cheesecurdistan

[LynneSin]

30. Prog must be on Vinyl

and in my 800+ record collection there is good share of Prog in there.

When I was a kid, it would be under the end table where I would veg out and listen to my Prog. The stereo was in the living room and the end table closest to it was about as far as I could stretch the headphones. Prog was escapism for me. I'd veg out there for an hour or so (we had one of those stackable players) and enjoy the trip.

[no name no slogan]

35. I'm a prog fan, but I don't think a lot of it is HoF material

I own every Genesis, ELP, King Crimson and Yes album recorded before 1985 on VINYL, and even though I consider myself a fan, I definitely wouldn't want half of it considered for any RnR HoF.

All those bands were spotty and irregular, at best. For every Fragile, there were at least two Tormatos-- or worse yet, one Topographic Oceans :puke:. It may have been majestic and accomplished, but its long-term impact as a genre has been minimal, especially when compared to, say, psychedelia, folk-rock or punk.

Prog served a purpose at the time, but it fostered an air of musical elitism which said that creating music should be left to public school boys or those with conservatory educations. It was elitist, undemocratic and exclusionary, and flew in the face of what rock and roll was originally all about.

That being said, "Red" is still one of my desert island discs. As is "Foxtrot".

[AspenRose]

19. Rush isn't in the H of F?

What is up with THAT? (???)

(Ditto Yes and Moody Blues!)

That is screwed up

[LynneSin]

20. Neither is King Crimson

Only Prog bands in HoF are Pink Floyd, Genesis and Queen. But let's face it - Floyd is there because of their 2 very very mainstream albums - The Wall and Dark Side (great prog albums that crossed over to non-prog fans), Queen has the Freddie Mercury factor and let's face it Genesis evolved to a crappy pop band after Gabriel left. Old Genesis probably would have never made the HoF

[HughBeaumont]

23. Er . . .

Genesis is not in.

Yet another travesty.

http://www.rockhall.com/inductees/inductee-list/

[LynneSin]

25. Whoopsie

I'm on the fence about Genesis.

Old Genesis I'm behind 110% but their recent stuff is total shit!

[HughBeaumont]

27. I even like some stuff from the s/t.

And older, pre-1982 Genesis is all astounding. Especially Selling England By the Pound.

Invisible Touch-on sucks hard.

[LynneSin]

28. I think Invisible Touch ruined it for me too

Definate shark jumping there

[Mike Daniels]

32. Invisible Touch is the "odd duck" (even w/in the context of the PC years)

It's their one album that for all intents and purposes could easily be a Phil Collins solo album. The only thing that makes it "Genesis" is the two "epics" and The Brazilian

[Burma Jones]

24. I believe the Sex Pistols have the right attitude towards that marketing effort in Cleveland

[mitchum]

37. Yes they do

yes indeed

[KitchenWitch]

26. Borderline...feels like I'm going to lose my mind!

:mad:

[Mike Daniels]

31. R&R HOF is for all intents and purposes a tourist site.

No matter how much more deserving King Crimson is over Madonna (and KC went through 3 or 4 distinct musical permutations as well) the masses aren't going to come in droves to see Fripp's guitar or David Cross's mellotron.

They will come in droves to see Madonna's wedding dress and cone bra regardless of how little they actually have to do with "rock".

I guess it's like the Smithsonian History of American History. How many tourists go there for the exhibit on colonial life vs. to see the Fonz's jacket, the ruby shoes or Archie and Edith's chair.

If the museum was located in a more cosompolitan location perhaps there wouldn't be the need to make it as overtly commerical.

[mitchum]

33. Yes, it is just a Hard Rock Cafe where you can't even get a hamburger

[GOPisEvil]

36. Why are people surprised in the Rock 'n' Roll Hall of Fame any more?

[Jamastiene]

38. I'm sorry. Madonna is a lot of things, but

she ain't ever gonna be rock and roll. She's pop.

[MonkeyFunk]

39. so what?

the R&R Hall of Fame has all sorts of genres represented: blues, funk, country, folk, jazz, reggae, rap....

[Jamastiene]

42. Then they shouldn't call it the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, Monkey.

That's the whole point of this thread, is it not? :shrug:

[MonkeyFunk]

43. or maybe

some people have a larger view of what constitutes Rock and Roll. I don't see anybody objecting to Leonard Cohen being inducted.

[Jamastiene]

44. At least there's guitar there.

I've seen Madonna hold a guitar, but last I checked, she can't play one and doesn't really have any guitar in her songs. Truth is, she isn't rock and roll. She's pop.

[MonkeyFunk]

49. She can play guitar

not very well, but enough to get through a simple song.

[Deja Q]

50. Let's have a poll; those who think like Lynnesin or those who think like Monkey...

May Lynnesin win. The difference is clear, and if the same logic is applied, we'd have to drop other segregated venues and have one equal lump of a popularity contest, of which most bands would end up winning in the end anyway.

What the heck, "I Love Lucy" may as well be entered into the rock hall of fame too. Hey, that show has music in it...

:crazy:

[no name no slogan]

40. The reason prog isn't in the Hall of Fame...

...is because it has been a musical "dead end". With the exception of Marillion or Dream Theater and the very nascient "neo-prog" genre, prog has not had much of an influence on rock music in general.

For example, you can trace a line from 60s garage rock, to 70s punk, to 80s hardcore, to 90s grunge, to 00s emo (?). The Troggs influenced the Stooges, who influenced the Sex Pistols, who influenced Black Flag, who influenced Nirvana, who influenced Fall Out Boy.

Who did Yes influence? Who did Emerson, Lake and Palmer influence?

There's a reason why Led Zeppelin is in the HoF, and King Crimson is not. There's also a reason why the Clash is in there, and Gentle Giant is not.

Prog, although interesting and very listenable, is an evolutionary dead end. It hasn't sufficiently influenced enough of today's music to have created an impact.

[abq e streeter]

45. Evolutionary dead end?

It was placed there by an all-powerful deity ( a white christian one of course) 6,000 years ago...

[HughBeaumont]

48. Who did John MellenCougarCamp influence?

I can name a lot of bands Rush influenced, many of them in the metal genres. Porcupine Tree, Dream Theater and Metallica come to mind right off the bat. King Crimson begat many popular acts today; Radiohead, Tool and Mars Volta being the most popular.

Better yet, why is it OK to leave Rush, Yes, Genesis, Jethro Tull and King Crimson out but include a rather mediocre artist like Madonna, who's done nothing but sex-up and stylize already-existing forms of music rather than improve or break new ground on them? Should she be lauded for spawning the utterly lousy teen pop explosion, which should have been dead and buried in the 70s and has nothing to do with nor should it even be considered "rock" in any way? Should she be rewarded for helping make popular music what it is today: a vapid, karaoke-level, disposable-song-laden joke where beauty and shallowness take precedent over instrumental talent and depth?

[flvegan]

41. HOW THE HELL DID THE BEASTIE BOYS NOT GET IN???!!!!

Fucking MORONS!

[argyl]

46. I'm amazed the Ventures are in. They're too much in keeping with the original

HoF concept.They're a damn sight more deserving than Madonna.

[Robeson]

47. Jethro Tull is not in the "Hall of Fame".....

...it's beyond bogus.