Any Ph.D. drop-outs around here?

[Hatalles]

I have a 15 and 20 page papers due next week along with about 40 student papers to grade. I'm losing my sanity, exhausted, and seriously considering calling it quits... anyone have advice? Anyone leave and go on to teach HS? Break into teaching @ community college?

I'm so tired and don't know how I'll manage to survive the week. :cry: :cry:

[GreenPartyVoter]

1. My dad got as far as his CAS. Finish up what's on your plate, take a break and reassess. And be

honest. Will it haunt you if you don't finish the Ph.D? If so, then you either need to convince yourself it isn't that important or finish it up.

:hug: to recharge your batteries.

[Hatalles]

4. I think it always haunts everyone to some degree after they leave...

... at the same time, I still feel like there are other things I can do out there and still be happy.

Thanks.

[SallyMander]

2. You can do it!

I'm in a PhD program and i have friends that have bailed. I think you need to get past your current stress, and think about your goals further down the road. You're tired and feeling like crap right now -- but if it's your dream to be a professor (or some other PhD-required gig) then it'll all be worth it eventually. If you think you'd be just as happy doing something else... maybe better to reevaluate. Just my 2 cents...

Sorry things are so rough right now. :hug:

[Hatalles]

5. Thanks for the advice.

I'm doing some serious soul-searching right now and weighing all the pros and cons. I'm fortunate enough to have an MA already and the teaching experience has been great so it wouldn't be a total loss if I decided to abandon the program... sigh. It would be a huge personal let down, however. =(

[SallyMander]

8. What field are you in?

I totally hear you -- hope i didn't sound unsympathetic in my reply. I have one friend who just couldn't get into the research aspect of the program -- and i'm in biology, so that was beyond critical! But he loved teaching, so he eventually left the program to get his Masters in education, so he can teach HS biology. I think he'll be fantastic at that. It was one of those cases where i think he just started grad school for something to do, rather than a means to reach a goal, you know? Then i have another friend who got sucked into a research project that just wasn't exactly what she wanted to do -- but she stuck with it and should be finishing up in the next year or so. Whatever you decide, i hope you can be kind to yourself and not beat yourself up over the decision -- you just need to do what makes you happy!

:hug:

[Writer]

10. SallyMander, I'm applying to PhD programs myself, but...

in media studies. I am allergic to teaching, if anything because I have an aloof personality that I don't think will lend well to it. Certainly, there are research opportunities in my area, but do you know of any fellow doctoral students who have stuck primarily to research?

[SallyMander]

13. Hey Writer!

Good luck with your applications! It's hard to say what your responsibilities will be, because it varies SO much between programs. For us, we can get a tuition/fee waiver and a (small, haha) stipend for teaching. So just about everyone does that, because who can afford tuition??? :D But there are other options too. Not sure about your field, but often in biology a prof will get a big grant for a project, which may include funding for a research assistant. Then the tuition/fee/stipend comes out of that, and the grad student doesn't have to teach. The downside is, you are locked into working on whatever project that is -- so you should make sure it'll hold your interest! The only other funding option that i know of would be getting a fellowship. Those are SWEET because you get paid to do your own research -- but of course they are hard to get! I've been lucky and had a fellowship my first year, and then the last few summers, so i've gotten a break from teaching year-round. I don't know what the fellowship opportunities are in your field, but there are big ones in science through the NSF and EPA that fund grad students all the way through their programs. But of course they are super competitive and hard to get!

Anyway, it's definitely something you can ask about with admissions folks and/or potential advisors. Maybe you can find someone with a grant and that could work out for you, or maybe they'll be able to point you towards fellowships you can apply for.

Do you have teaching experience? Sounds like you do. I only ask because i didn't really, and i was SUPER nervous and worried about it, and now i just love it. So it could be that if you end up having to teach, it might not be as bad as you think. Especially if you get a position where you're mainly a "grader," and not really lecturing. Again, that'll vary with the program -- in my case, there are some classes we truly "teach," and others where the lecturer is a prof and the grad students just lead recitations and grade.

OK, sorry this got so long -- hope it helps! :hi:

[Writer]

24. I actually don't have any teaching experience.

Zero. Zilch. Nada.

At least one of the programs to which I'm applying has an option of either serving as a TA or serving as an RA. Tuition paid + stipend. I'm not 100% sure of the others.

Certainly I won't know if I'm capable at teaching until I try it; however, there are days when I socially "check out" and I am so internal that it's difficult to talk to others. I'd hate to do that to my students.

Everything you describe above is very helpful, but I truly won't know until I'm in the game and can see it for myself.

~Writer~

[Boojatta]

38. "days when I socially 'check out' and I am so internal that it's difficult to talk to others"

Isolation must precede true society. I like the silent church before the service begins, better than any preaching. -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

[Hatalles]

15. Have you taught before?

I know a few 'aloof' personalities who actually ended up enjoying teaching quite a bit. :)

[alcibiades_mystery]

23. I can't see how you would avoid teaching in a media studies PhD program

Just sayin'...

[Writer]

26. Well... I know that at least one school there are research assistants...

it's not all "here's the media; here's how they work." There is a lot of research (especially qualitative research) involved in media research, from effects research to media and society.

[alcibiades_mystery]

28. LOL

I'm well aware of the research methods and literature in media studies. Thanks.

Your research assistantship, should you get one, will be a course release, at most, from the teaching responsibilities you take on for your stipend. Trust me on that. Media studies involves quite a lot of qualitative and quantitative research, to be sure, but it's not like studying chemistry at Harvard. You will teach. Count on it.

[Writer]

30. Do you have a PhD in Mass Communication or Media Studies?

Where did you earn it?

[alcibiades_mystery]

31. Check your PM

:-)

[Writer]

34. I have. And I responded.

I wish that you'd permit those that truly do understand this area of study to determine what is "standard" - not someone who thinks he knows.

~Writer~

[alcibiades_mystery]

37. Now you're being hostile for no reason at all

I explained to you how I knew about media studies and mass communication programs, and I think most people in those fields would not only agree, but see significant overlap with the work done in my field. I took several graduate courses in a communications program, and I've worked with many people in that field.

But certainly, do your own due diligence. I certainly wouldn't expect you to take any message board response as definitive.

Best of luck.

[harmonicon]

45. me - no teaching, though I'm interested in that - just don't have to

[Hatalles]

18. Thanks for your advice, Sally.

I think the hardest part is just struggling with the disappointment I feel w/ myself. I was top of my class when I earned my MA and put so much effort into just getting into my doctorate program, and I looked forward to becoming a university professor for so long, that it's very hard now, to imagine myself doing something else.

Like I mentioned in one of my other posts, though -- I've always been more creatively inclined. Perhaps teaching HS, adjuncting at CC, and writing in between, would be a lot more satisfying.

Thanks, again. :)

[SallyMander]

25. Hey Hatalles

I totally understand. It's hard to readjust your expectations for yourself after being set on something for so long. I thought i wanted to go to vet school for pretty much my whole life... then i did a research project in college and totally loved it. I had a bit of a pre-midlife-crisis because i had been set on this one path for so long -- worked at vet clinics, took all my pre-vet classes (orgo, ugh!!!). But i'm really happy that i allowed myself to reevaluate what would make me happy.

Please don't be disappointed in yourself though -- this isn't a FAILURE on your part. It's a decision regarding what's best for you and what will make you happiest. And in a way, bailing out and doing something new is the braver of the options.

Keep me updated!

[harmonicon]

44. DO NOT count on the MA

I'm going for a Ph.d right now. I was out of school with an MFA for two years before going back this fall. I applied for so many jobs that said "Master's required, Doctorate preferred" and didn't get a single interview. Friends who are on search committees have told me flat out that they'll just toss the non-doctorate candidates for a job, unless the person is already a name in the field. I would say you should try to stick it out, or maybe find a polite way to leave and come back to it in a year's time. I would also suggest you look into doctoral programs in England. Part of the reason I didn't go for a doctorate after my MFA was that there weren't any (oh, I looked) programs in the US that I was happy with - partly because they make you do loads of teaching or TA-ing. Well, I don't have to do any of that here (though I'd like to teach - maybe next year I was told - oh! and anyone who lectures is paid the same wage, student or not) and I couldn't be happier.

[Writer]

3. Hatalles, are you a teaching assistant, or do you teach a class?

Could you finish your PhD, but instead work as a research assistant? Or something that won't place so much paper grading in your lap?

[Hatalles]

6. Teach.

As far as I know, there aren't a whole lot of RA positions available and they don't pay nearly as well as the freshman comp teaching positions. I'm really enjoying the teaching, however. It's my own coursework that's really tiring me... which is why I'm beginning to think teaching HS/CC might be a happier/more rewarding route for me to take.

[Writer]

7. What area are you in?

[Hatalles]

9. English Literature

Conc. in American Studies

[Writer]

12. Interesting area.

Well I understand feeling overwhelmed. I'm sure that after you make it past this semester that you might feel better; however, if it is the entire process that you're feeling unsure about, then perhaps you could consider other options. :)

But if you take everything one step at a time, one paper at a time, one page at a time, I bet you can make it through.

The best of luck.

:hug:

~Writer~

[Hatalles]

14. Re: one step at a time, one paper at a time, one page at a time

That's actually very good advice. You certainly need to have discipline to keep yourself steadily moving through the program. I'm definitely paying the consequences now for pushing my work off to the last minute.

Still, at the same time, I feel as if the program is gobbling up all of my energy and I have no time left to pursue my interests outside of academia. e.g. I've always been creatively inclined (there's novels, short stories, poetry I want to write) but it's hard to find, or even create, the time necessary for those interests.

[alcibiades_mystery]

22. NO

You're creative energy should be turned toward your graduate work, at least for the next few years. Writing publishable articles for English and cultural studies journals will require all your creative spirit.

[alcibiades_mystery]

20. Ouch

Tough market

[mitchum]

29. Indeed...

and that's exactly the reason I am a Ph.D. drop-out

[Bake]

11. Don't do it!

I don't know how much longer you've got to finish, but I can tell you that I left after a year and a half of my program (decades ago), right as I was ready to start my dissertation. I've always regretted not finishing. And mine was a situation where I had no choice - I was at the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, had just gone through a divorce (something akin to leprosy in Baptist circles in those days), and was REQUIRED to drop out for at least a year. By then, I had gotten a job in another field and never went back. I ended up getting an MBA and a law degree. But I wish I had finished the Ph.D.

Bake

[Hatalles]

16. It's a 5-year program, or so they say...

Most students, as far as I know, end up staying longer to work on their dissertation. I'm still in my first year so I feel as if, if I leave now, I won't have wasted 3-4 years before making the same decision.

I understand the first year is always the most difficult... but I'm really wondering if it's worth the effort when I might be able to find happiness doing something else.

[alcibiades_mystery]

21. This is your first semester

And these are your first seminar papers. EVERYBODY feels like this first semester (some are just better at hiding it).

Do not freak out. Worse comes to worse, you can always ask for a deferred grade.

Write your paper. Nobody is expecting a masterpiece, or even a publishable article, and if they tell you they are, they're lying. Next semester, pick your seminar paper topics by week 4 and have an outline by week 9. It'll reduce your stress considerably.

EVERYBODY goes through this. EVERYBODY. It's not YOU, it's a structural effect of graduate school.

[momto3]

17. What you are feeling is completely normal!

I totally relate to your pain! If this is an important goal, stay with it. Try to take it one day at a time. Everyone I know wanted to drop out of grad school at one time or another. There were many times I wanted to drop out of my grad school program. But, I stuck with it because I could not decided what I else I would do! Remember, if it were easy, everyone would do it.

But, if teaching is what you would prefer, I would suggest sticking with you MA. I have heard that it is actually more difficult to get a HS teaching job with a PhD since the pay scale is higher. I do not have experience teaching - so this may not be 100% accurate.

I hope I have helped some. If you would like more info or advice, send me a PM.

Tracy

[alcibiades_mystery]

19. Write your paper

Half ass the grades, upward to avoid complaints.

This is the way of graduate school. Get used to it.

Just don't quit.

[TrogL]

27. I'm three courses into it

Yes, I occasionally brag "I'm working on my doctorate".

Unfortunately, said doctorate is in a completely different field from the one where I got my other degrees so I'm re-starting from scratch.

Is there such a thing as a doctorate of philosophy that's actually in philosophy? What are the pre-requisites (besides being barking mad).

[tigereye]

32. I'm related to one

try a grad student support group - it was helpful to my relative. Every grad student feels this way at one time or another. But there's no harm in thinking through what you really want. Most of my buddies with PHDs felt this way at one time or another, but somehow they managed to get through it.


good luck! :hug:

[Critters2]

33. I'm a drop-out.

I was doing a PhD in social ethics. I got so disgusted by the behavior of other future ethicists that I took a break to think things through. Never went back.

Sometimes I wish I had, but it wasn't the worst decision I ever made.

But now, when you're exhausted, isn't the best time to decide. Wait until things quiet down and you can look at things objectively.

And good luck with all you have to do!!

[JoePhilly]

35. I did it ... so anyone can.

Break the Ph.D degree work out into very small chunks. And separate it from the teaching assistant stuff.

And even if it takes longer than normal, usually you can get extensions ... as long as you demonstrate progress!!

But don't stop ... having a Ph.D demonstrates 2 things about you.

1. You do NOT QUIT.

2. You can master any topic.

And its great to be able to tell people that you have those skills.

[lost-in-nj]

36. sit down

and breath
you have accomplished so much...
keep going...... you will be happy you did......

I only finished high school.....

you rock



:hug:

lost

[Strawman]

39. I fell the same way right about now

I'm in the same boat but instead of the 40 student papers I have a full time job, and I'm looking at a difficult exam next Monday and a 15 page paper due next Wednesday. I am just out of gas this semester. 10 graduate credits and a full time job is alot. At least it is for me. At Thanksgiving I was staring at 5 papers and a final in less than one month. Since then I've written four papers and they have all turned out reasonably well.

I'm just trying to get through this semester and shift my focus over the break to the 2 comprehensive exams I have to take in early Feb.. I'm tricking myself into not being stressed about this semester by focusing my concern on my comps.

Just write. Write a draft of the first paper by tomorrow. Then knock out a draft of second over the weekend and revise as much as you can. Don't worry about it being perfect. Just get something on paper and it won't be so overwhelming once you have drafts to work from. That's my problem. I'm a perfectionsist and a procrastinator and it takes me the longest time to get started. I have to tell myself the world won't end if I write an A- paper or two this term.

How much of your grade is riding on these papers and when are grades due for your students' papers?

Don't drop out. Battle through it and think about reducing your load next semester or at least taking the summer off to recharge. Having the summer off (of school) helped me. I wouldn't have been able to handle this semester if I hadn't started out with as much energy as I did.

Hang in there. I will if you will, ok? :hug:

[femmocrat]

40. Ed.D. dropout here.

I just couldn't teach full-time and keep up with the writing requirements. No time to do all that research. I kind of regret it, but at the time I just had to decide what I could manage (with two kids who needed a mom, not a library denizen), and if it was worth all the drudgery. No regrets. The pay bump for a doctorate is only $2000 a year in our district.

[fishwax]

41. I was there a few days ago as well

I'd been feeling that way since the Thanksgiving Break, and this week was even worse :scared:

But you can do it! Don't have anything else useful to add, other than a positive word :)

[Lisa]

42. hang in there, Hatalles! I defended 5 years ago today ...

It was a long haul. It took me a DECADE to finish (with a topic change and two nearly-complete rewrites).

But, looking back, I'm glad that I did it. I'm starting up my own overseas research project this month, and it would be a lot harder without that degree.

I'm pulling for you. Feel free to PM me if you want to talk.

[nam78_two]

43. Hang in there-there were times during my first semester when I really didn't think I could make it

I defended last September, despite having several rough patches in there. The Quant.Mech II class I took in my second sem was probably one of the few things in my adult life that made me cry. I was so tired and nothing was making sense and at some point coffee stops being an adequate substitute for sleep.
We all go through it :hug:. It is worth it in the end if you love your field-totally worth it (if academia is for you that is-it doesn't have to be everyone's cup of tea of course). Things get much better once course work is done and then you only have to work about why none of your research experiments seem to work :yoiks:.

You ever seen these:
http://www.phdcomics.com/comics/archive.php?comicid=3

I feel they are a must read for all PhD students :D.

[Orangepeel]

46. as others have testified, EVERYONE'S first semester sucks

On the whole, I loved my doctoral program. But there were definitely times, especially during the first semester, that I considered quitting.

Hang in there and good luck!

[Lisa]

47. one of my colleagues observed: "If you don't open the window and scream ..."

"... what the HELL am I doing here, why didn't I smarten up after what happened during my Master's work?!!!" at least once each semester (twice a month when you're writing up!) -- you probably aren't doing it right!"

I'm happy to say that she defended last year and is now working on a post-doc at Ole Miss.