There's no such thing as a happy marriage.

[JasonDeter]

Your either happy or your married.

[Rabrrrrrr]

1. totally disagree

[foreigncorrespondent]

2. Oh, I have to totally disagree with you, Jason.

If Sappho and I were allowed to marry, it would mean that our goal to be living in the same damn country before taking those vows has been met. Which means, we would be married and very happy. :)

On edit, because I am silly and wrote a word all wrong. LOL

[JasonDeter]

8. I hope you get what you want, but I warned you.

[foreigncorrespondent]

19. Warn me about what, Jason?

I have lived with Sappho for 15 months. We would still be living together today, had it not been for the slight little fact that the United States discriminates so badly against gay and lesbian couples.

Sappho and I happen to have a very solid relationship. And believe it or not, even through all the misery we face from being forced to live apart at this current time, we are still very happy together.

You have nothing to warn me about, Jason. I have found the one person that is right for me. Obviously you haven't found the true love of youyr life, if you had, you wouldn't be writing such things. For that, you have my sympathy.

[snobird]

44. Forced Apart As Well

Our hearts are aching right along with you and Sappho. Gator & I are "married" "solid" and "happy", and NOT with any support of our 2 countries . Yes we are married & together in Canada, however, the legal hoops gator has to go through, forces her to live not as freely as we would like. We have known the agony of months of separation,being at the mercy of which border Customs officer would deny us access to our respective countries. WE HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO SAY WE ARE "HAPPILY MARRIED " without persecution and judgment.

[foreigncorrespondent]

45. snobird...

...welcome to DU my fellow binational!

The longest Sapph and I have been forced to spend apart has been 10 months. However, during the last two years, we have only seen each other for the grand total of 56 days. It hasn't been easy.

Hang in there, my friend. If Gator is with you in Canada, then things will surely improve for you soon.

I wish you and Gator the very best of luck.

[snobird]

64. Thank You

for the warm welcome.We have sent e-mails re joining F.A.I.R to you & Saphro.Gator & I continue to be challenged

[woofless]

3. Sure there is.

I have been married since 1977. I left my wife in 2000 and have lived with my sweetheart since 2001. My wife lives with one of my good friends and they are 2000 miles away. We are all quite happy thank you!

[JasonDeter]

9. Thank you for being honest.

AND proving my point.

[Bertha Venation]

30. Don't call me a liar, Jason.

:eyes:

"Being honest?" I'm happy for the person you replied to. S/he found happiness in life.

But in thanking that person for being honest, you are, in effect, saying that us happily married folks are lying.

Tell me how you know I am lying. I'll be looking for your answer.

[scarlet_owl]

4. I'm happy and married.

:shrug:

[Rabrrrrrr]

6. but...but.......sputter...........

Anne Coulter says that liberals are anti-marriage, hate God, and find happiness only in non-monogomous, preferably sodomistic, anonymous sexual encounters that lead to abortions on demand and the destruction of the american family.

I mean, she wouldn't lie, would she? Or maybe you're lying to make the world think that liberals actually respect American insitutions, like marriage. Hmmm...... maybe that's it.....

Sorry to pick on you, scarlet_owl, I just had an intense need to be sarcastic and your post was so perfectly placed...

:evilgrin:

[Carlie]

37. Hi! What a fun 1st post:

Another example of Ann Coulter being wrong - thank you!

I am liberal

I am married

Anonymous sexual encounters are most unsatisfying

Ann Coulter's problems lie deep in Ann Coulter; she should NEVEFR extrapolate, IMO!

BTW, I'll be married for 30 years in September. All it takes is 2 people who are happy inside and who care for one another. I have that and much more and I thank my stars every single day!

[Rabrrrrrr]

49. welcome to DU Carlie!

:hi:

And congrats on long wonderful marriage!

[geniph]

54. Ann says sodomy causes abortions?

Well, I guess she'd be living proof of that theorem.

[MAlibdem]

71. How do preferably sodomistic encounters lead to abortions? lol (n/t)

[JasonDeter]

10. How many times have you been married?

[scarlet_owl]

57. Once.

Do you think I don't know what I'm talking about? I'm married and happy. That's it. I'm sorry that you have such a negative view of marriage, but it doesn't mean that everyone feels that way.

[mykpart]

5. I used to think like you.

After an abusive marriage, I stayed single for 25 years. I never thought I could abide being married again. But I remarried 4 years ago and I am deliriously happy. Lincoln said that most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.

[JasonDeter]

11. You prove my point. You were married and NOT happy.

Were you happy when you were no longer married to that person?

[Sapphocrat]

7. Ya only think that way...

...when you're feeling particularly bitter. (Take it from one who knows bitter!)

Honestly, marriage (and AFAIC, I'm as married as my parents ever were for 48 years) is a buttload of damned, hard work. That goes for the best of relationships -- and if it seems easy, that's only 'cause you've both grown up enough to put individual egos aside and focus on the greater good between you.

If you're with the right person, the highs far outweigh the lows.

[JasonDeter]

13. Very few people are like your parents and like mine.

and I know enough on one hand that have been married once and happy. Statistics show most marriages end in divorce. Proving my point.

[Xithras]

16. That's because many people get married for the wrong reasons

Or too young. Or when they're not ready. Or because they think it's the "proper" thing to do. Those people get divorced.

My wife and I have been together for over 10 years, and every day is like the first date. I have other friends and family members who have married, and then divorced, in the same span. What's the difference?

I married my wife for only one reason...because I love her more than anything in the world, and I'd do anything to make her happy.

Other friends married because they were pregnant, or because their parents bugged them, or because they thought they'd get something out of it, or because the sex was good...and on and on and on. They are all divorced today.

If you marry for any reason other than devotion, then you're doomed to divorce (or a long, crappy marriage).

[JasonDeter]

17. I'm not debating what one thinks makes a happy marriage

The facts prove and you have proved by sharing your friends experiences that there is no such thing as a happy marriage. Your either happy or your married. If that wasn't true then there would be more happy married people than happy divorced people. Just because a few marriages are happy today doesn't negate the overwhelming evidence being the number of unhappy marriages, most of which end up in divorce! No, you too haven't proved me wrong.

[Robb]

23. To begin, your facts are wrong.

Most marriages do not end in divorce; the study you think you're quoting has been revised since 1990 to state that 43
percent of first marriages end in separation or divorce within 15 years.

However, it's much more complicated. If you're actually interested, read this PDF file. Intetesting highlight:

"About 50% of first marriages for men under age 45 may end in divorce, and between 44 and 52% of women's first marriages may end in divorce for these age groups. The likelihood of a divorce is lowest for men and women age 60, for whom 36 % of men and 32 percent of women may divorce from their first marriage by the end of their lives. A similar statistical exercise was performed in 1975 using marital history data from the Current Population Survey (CPS). Projections based on those data implied that about one-third of married persons who were 25 to 35 years old in 1975 would end their first marriage in divorce.

"This cohort of people, who in 1996 were about 45 to 55 years old, had already exceeded these projections as about 40% of men and women in these ages had divorced from their first marriage. Current projections now indicate that the proportion could be as high as 50% for persons now in their early forties."

[foreigncorrespondent]

41. The only thing that proves, Jason is...

...that 50% of people who get married, marry for all the wrong reasons.

If the love you have for someone isn't true, then sure, for the first while you will be happy, but that happiness will soon leave and you will be in misery. If the love you have for someone is true however, you will be happy from day one, right through out the rest of your life.

Just ask my family Jason, because they see how miserable I am without Sappho here with me. But when she makes a trip out here, I get all excited, I can't sleep, I have trouble eating, I mean I am like a little teenager in love for the first time. And you know what Jason? That is how love should be.

And please don't say that I go through that only because Sappho and I are apart, because that simply isn't the case. I lived wit Sappho for 15 months solid, waking up next to her every day was a breath of fresh air for me. Seeing her beautiful smile each day is what made my day all the more better.

It truly is wonderful to wake up each day knowing that there is someone next to you, who you just can't wait to see open their eyes.

That is what true love is all about, Jason.

In stead of making threads about something based on a lot of built up hurt and anger you are obviously harbouring why don't you try to find true happiness in your life? Maybe then you will understand what most of us have said in this thread.

[gator_in_Ontario]

21. I think you found the key...

...if it seems easy, that's only 'cause you've both grown up enough to put individual egos aside and focus on the greater good between you. Maturity is an essential ingredient for a happy marriage. I wish you and foreigncorrespondent the best, and godspeed.

[Sapphocrat]

52. Sometimes clues to 'the key '...

...come from the most unexpected places. The last place I ever expected to find a clue was in the sermon (!) by the priest (!!) at my father's funeral (!!!). He (the priest, not my dad - LOL) was making a point about letting people go -- by talking about all the sacrifices we make in our lives. The part that made no sense to me at the time (I was 29, and in a pleasant but not particularly fulfilling relationship) was how when two people marry, they sacrifice various pieces of themselves in order to fit together as one unit.

Of course, he was speaking from a purely Catholic P.O.V. -- which meant I was more likely to reject the point he was making. Now, though, I understand it: "Sacrificing" any part of yourself is a bad thing when it means losing yourself. But there are pieces of ourselves we need to dump -- like ego -- in order to be happy, fulfilled human beings.***

Ideally, we discover that extraneous junk in our lives on our own, and dump it for our own sake -- and not because we think our partner or family or friends will love us more if we "change." Trying to change yourself because you think it's what somebody else wants is a surefire way to unhappiness. You have to do it for yourself and yourself only -- and once you know who you want to be, only then are you ready to share your life with someone else. Do it before you're ready and you're destined for failure. (By "you," I mean the collective "we/us" -- I'm just being lazy in my writing this morning.)

Nevertheless, I believe very strongly that the right relationship with the right person can be a catalyst for the kind of self-examination that drags one's needless/harmful emotional baggage into the light. I think that's when a person makes a (usually unconscious) decision to weigh the value of the relationship against the "stuff" s/he is hanging onto.

And that's where the idea of "sacrificing" pieces of oneself can be a good one. It's not really a "sacrifice" at all -- just a matter of peeling back all the stuff that makes you unhappy anyway, and getting to the rich, chewy center. :D And if two people can do that, together, then you've got the most winning combination you could ever hope for.

And it goes without saying (but I'll say it anyway) that the guaranteed path to failure is expecting to change one's partner. What you see is what you get -- and you must accept and love, unconditionally, that person for exactly who s/he is, at that very moment, without any expectations. S/he may change in many ways in the future, but almost never in the way you expect, and certainly never to your exact specifications.

You don't have to like everything, but you have to accept everything, without qualification.

Easier said than done. :)

Does all this make for smooth sailing all the time? Hay-ell no. If we could remain in that perfect state of contact with our true selves, we'd all be transcendant beings sitting on a mountaintop somewhere for the next 40 years. The "junk" is tenacious -- you may want to let it go, but it doesn't want to let you go.

But you keep working at it. I said even the best relationships require a buttload of hard work; the real trick is remembering that you're not really working on the relationship itself, and you certainly won't do any good "working" on your partner -- you're just working on you. Which is a lifelong task. But well worth it.

It's just a matter of keeping oneself as aware of the task as possible. Also easier said than done -- that "junk" we carry is a nasty little ankle-biter!

*** That, of course, dovetails perfectly with the ultimate path to inner peace -- which certainly doesn't require religion.


And, gator_in_Ontario, thanks so much for the good wishes. Very much. :)

[eileen from OH]

12. Oh, you are so wrong

If you are incredibly lucky enough to be married to your very best friend there is no greater happiness or contentment.

Excitement, passion, and a healthy dollop of laughter - it doesn't get any better than that.

eileen from OH

[JasonDeter]

14. So you've been married once to the same person? How long?

[eileen from OH]

25. 27 years

and counting.

eileen from OH

[Misinformed01]

26. Jason?

Any comment on the 27 year happy marriage here?

[JasonDeter]

53. I'll take your word for it.

[Bertha Venation]

59. You started this thread, you have several replies saying "nonsense" --

and this is your only response?

Have you nothing else to say?

Were you drunk when you started this thread?

[Journeyman]

15. How very true, eileen. . .

everything you've said is possible to those willing to work for it. Been married myself to my best friend going on 30 years now. And we're both native Californians, so we can put another silly stereotype to rest as well.

[NicoleM]

20. ITA.

We're happy and we're married. We're not happy BECAUSE we're married--we were happy when we were living together before we got married.

I have more fun with DH than I have ever had with anybody else on the planet, just doing things like going hiking or playing board games. I can't imagine anything better than spending every day with your best friend, AND getting to have sex with him whenever you want. :)

[Rocinante]

18. Been married

for nearly 25 yrs. now. My wife and I dated for all of two weeks and decided to go for it. Been happy ever since, so there!:P

[JanMichael]

22. I'm Happy & Married. So what's your point again?

Not everyone is but you're claiming a friggan absolute which is absolutely wrong.

[Misinformed01]

36. I am happier now that we are married

Love you too honey!

[Az]

24. Get rid of your mythical image of marriage

There is some silly notion running around the US that marriage starts with 2 people magically made for each other and somehow the love increases on its own if you found the right person. WRONG

Relationships take work. If you do not strive to strengthen it they will move towards entropy and fall apart. It is not 2 people becoming 1. A relationship is 2 people walking together along similar paths. If you do not work to keep the trip interesting they each will begin to seek their own path and their shared trip will diverge.

[blondeatlast]

27. I'm both.

[TNDemo]

28. Been married for 25 completely happy years.

Would do it all over again.

[Bertha Venation]

29. Jason, dear, I say this with all the calm I can muster:

BULLSHIT. I'm happily married.

[ProfessorGAC]

31. What Bertha Said!

The Professor

[Carlie]

39. Oh, goodie -

even a moderator understands! (thx)

[MissMillie]

32. Flawed logic

Your either happy or your married.

Of course it is possible to be not married AND unhappy.

[SOteric]

33. We have odd concepts sometimes about what a marriage means.

And for an otherwise pragmatic and intelligent society, those concepts too often dip into fairy tales, fictional legends of love, and ordinary wish fulfillment.

I know it is possible to be happy in a marriage. My parents were married an incredibly long time, until my mother's death. My father had no other love in his lifetime, and he still grieves her loss.

Their happiness was grounded in good communication skills and a well- evolved understanding both of one another and themselves.

Relationships take effort. When it's good, when it's 'right,' the effort is a joy in and of itself. When it's not, the effort is an onus and a chore.

[Cuban_Liberal]

34. I disagree.

We don't have the 'paper' that says we're married, but we're as married as people get, and I'm as happy on a daily basis as I've ever been in my life. :)

[fudge stripe cookays]

35. Bullshit.

I've been married for 4 wonderful years to my best friend, and wouldn't change a thing.

I was miserable when I was single.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

38. Jason, you're bitter and sad...

That is all.
Duckie

[blondeatlast]

40. Us pinko librulz sure hate marriage; that's why the vast voting

majority of us want to see even MORE people able to enjoy it!

[elfwitch]

42. Oh! Do I ever disagree....

I am perfectly happy and married. My husband is the perfect person in the world for me. He is my best friend, my partner in crime, the greatest father ever, and one helluva fuck buddy.

I cannot imagine anything better than being married to him.

[BiggJawn]

43. I'm Oh-for-Two and I agree.

I think the last "happy marriage" happened 50 years ago.

Of course, being single ain't all that much of a laugh-riot, either....

[ProfessorGAC]

51. Bitterness Squared, There Jawn

You may be oh for two, right now, but does that really mean it's a universal truth? Because that's what you agreed to. The original poster made the two concepts mutually exclusive. Sure you want to paint with that wide a brush?
The Professor

[NightTrain]

46. I'm tell my Uncle Dick and Aunt Barbara you said that.

They've been happily married since 1956.

[Bertha Venation]

47. And Mrs. V.'s parents, Jim & Alice -- married 51 years.

And happy.

:eyes:

[leftofthedial]

48. I was once happy and married

not any more though.

[tigereye]

50. happily married since 1991

and was happy with him when we lived together too, since the early 80's. So yes Virginia, there are happy marriages, strangely enough. You just have to meet the right person and do the work.

Also my parents are happily married, as were my husband's parents. Although I have noticed that one's expectations of marriage play a huge part in how the marriage works out....

[leftofthedial]

63. happy for the first 18 years

not so happy for the last 9.

So, I'd say two-thirds of marriage is happy.

[geniph]

55. Both the generalization and the grammar are flawed

My first marriage, I was happy enough, but not happy to be married, so we divorced. I've since been with John for over ten years - married for five - and we're both still happy and still married.

All generalizations are false.

[Dulcinea]

56. WRONG!

I'm happy and married. I have a wonderful husband that I wouldn't trade for the world!

We'll celebrate our 7th anniversary next month!

[absyntheNsugar]

58. You can be happy and married...

however it is very hard to stay happy and stay married. Any marriage can be put on life support. A happy marriage takes constant work.

[Coventina]

60. I disagree, HOWEVER

I WILL say that there are few things more miserable than a bad marriage.

If you have been there, as I have, you have my empathy AND sympathy.
You will eventually heal, if you want to.

[populistmom]

61. I was happy for many years.

While my spouse and I never had a great passion, butterflies in our stomach thing, we seemed to communicate well, genuinely love and care for one another, and have the same goals together for the first 7 years together. Ultimately, I think I could have remained content forever until issues surfaced on his part six years ago. That was put back together and then problems occurred again. I respect him for the way is is with his patients, his politics, and his devotion as a father, but ultimately the paranoia, defensiveness, and hostility toward me the past couple of years makes things very difficult now. I have practical things to get in order in the next couple of years before I can consider alternatives, but I don't honestly know if I can ever trust anyone again. It seems that men find me nothing more than physically appealing, perhaps even intellectually appealing to some, but on more than one occasion in my past, I've had experiences of men who genuinely cared for me, only to somehow be scared away or betray me in some way and myself left broken-hearted.

At least I know like this, my children have both of their parents who truly love them and I don't have to take any more risks of being hurt in my life. I don't know if I will ever feel much happiness again, but maybe I'm called to more noble purposes. I have so much love to give and to share, but maybe that love I possess within me is there to make me a good mother, so that my children will one day find their own happiness and purpose. It seems to do me very little good in other capacities.

[Liberal Christian]

62. Here's the deal

Marriage won't MAKE you happy.

Being single won't MAKE you happy.

Only you can make you happy.

Is every married person happy every moment of every day? Probably not.

Is every single person happy every moment of every day? Probably not.

One sure thing is that if you're as bitter and pessimistic about other things in life as you are in this thread, then you probably won't let yourself find happiness whether you're married or single.

[JasonDeter]

73. Absolutely amazing is all I can say about your hateful post.

[Shakespeare]

76. On the contrary; it's not hateful at all.

The poster makes an excellent point, both for those who are married and those who are not.

[NNadir]

65. Nonsense.

There are people who are incapable of the commitment and bonding and responsibility that love entails, and such people might be willing to make such a statement. Of course, people so described are the same sort of people who would glibly presume to extend their own (weak) experience to the rest of the human race.

I've been married to my wife for nineteen years, have lived with her for twenty, and known her for twenty three years and I have yet to have a day where she doesn't thrill me.

[JasonDeter]

66. Happy for you but you prove nothing but your own experience.

50 + percent of marriages have one or both partners committing adultery. Just because a minority here say OH I'M SO HAPPY TO BE MARRIED doesn't prove the fact that for a majority of Americans they are either happy or they are married because for the majority its adulterous partners and divorce. To deny that I am right is to deny the facts and paint a phony picture for those who are clamoring for some ideal that does not exist. I posted this as a humorous quote but have become fascinated by the responses. I truly am happy for those of you who have reaffirmed their undying love and happiness being married to their perspective spouses but PLEASE do not claim that disproves my original (humorous)claim!

[Shakespeare]

67. Are you STILL pushing this BS?

Let me flip that statement around for you, sport: YOU prove nothing but YOUR own experience. And that's pretty much the point that so many have made here.

You simply cannot come in here, state a subjective opinion, and pronounce it as God's own truth. You've made it quite clear that you're not a fan of marriage, but your experience neither proves anything nor invalidates the experiences of everyone else on this board. Give it up already.

on edit: It's pretty weak of you to suddenly claim that your original statement was humorous when it was nothing of the sort; you seem to be making this claim as a cop-out to those who have so eloquently pointed out the baseless nature of your original post.

[Nikia]

70. Well, you said "no" for one thing

It may be acceptable to say that around half of marriages will end in divorce or that a certain percent will experience adultery or a certain percent of married people are unhappy. You said that there is "no" such thing as a happy marriage or a happy married person.
Even if the majority of married people were not happy it would be like saying such things as: "There is no such thing as a gay person." "There is no such thing as a left handed person." "There is no such thing as a cocaine user." "There is no such thing as a minority lawyer"
Other Duers gave examples of people who are happy being married. In doing so they have proved your statement false.
I am convinced that some people will not be happy married. My mother is one of those people although she is currently married to a "Yes, Dear" man who angers her if he tries to stand up for himself at all.
Others seem to be attracted to people who will make them unhappy. Some people who were abused as children seem to be attracted to abusers, for example.
Marriage requires that both people truly care for one another as much as they care for themselves.
I am happy being married too and my grandparents recently celebrated 50 years of happy marriage.

[JasonDeter]

74. I hope your a Christian

because by your same logic, Christianity is real, what Christians say is true because of the subjective testimonies given by more than a few of them!

[NNadir]

72. You made a inclusive claim.

One instance of a contradiction disproves it.

[tishaLA]

68. I teach a great poem to my students

It's title is a line from the Wife of Bath in Chaucer...the many-times married character who wanted equality.

Robert Lowell “To Speak of Woe That Is in Marriage”

“It is the future generation that presses into being by means of these exuberant feeling and supersensible soap bubbles of ours.” –Schopenhauer

“The hot night makes us keep our bedroom windows open.
Our magnolia blossoms. Life begins to happen.
My hopped up husband drops his home disputes,
and hits the streets to cruise for prostitutes,
free-lancing out along the razor’s edge.
This screwball might kill his wife, then take the pledge.
Oh the monotonous meanness of his lust…
It’s the injustice… he is so unjust—
whiskey-blind, swaggering home at five.
My only thought is how to keep alive.
What makes him tick? Each night now I tie
ten dollars and his car key to my thigh…
Gored by the climacteric of his want,
he stalls above me like an elephant.”

[Shakespeare]

69. an excellent Lowell poem!

Another favorite of his is "Skunk Hour." :-)

[Burma Jones]

75. If you were married, your wife could correct your spelling.